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Chainsaw Devil (Pochita) vs Kaneki

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Both 7-C
SBA
Speed =
 
I don’t think Pochita has anything to put him on Arima levels of skill. And Kaneki has the AP/LS advantage. He may have less impressive regeneration, but I think he has what it takes to run through Chainsaw Man’s supply of blood.
 
Doesn’t Kaneki scale to this? It says he stopped Eto’s charge. If he scales, he stomps in LS.
 
Well not like either are very grab heavy. Though chains on Kagune wrestling would be harder for Kaneki. Still, skill and AP could carry
 
the ap gap is 1.95x
i dont think it'll make much of a difference
skill will be a problem though
 
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Porchita is a brawler who relies on his own ability to regenerate from damage. He has no plan and pretty much has to overwhelm the opponent. What would Kaneki do against an opponent like this?
 
The thing with Pochita is that he plays extremely dirty, utilizing his environment to his advantage. Considering SBA, this event takes place in NYC, which is a disadvantage for Ken not only because of Pochita's superior mobility but also because he can increase his speed by traveling from building to building. Plus, he can lift the ground Ken is on, leaving him open to being chained and sliced up. Pochita only needs to eat Ken's head to erase him from existence as well. The small AP gap is mitigated by Pochita's piercing damage, which is more durable than he is (and stronger since they casually rip through his armor). While skill is on Ken's side, it isn’t enough to counter Pochita's callous fighting style and experience. Even if Pochita somehow gets damaged, he has constant high-mid regeneration starting from his heart, and it will take a good while before he runs out of blood.

Voting Pochita (Hopefully a Pochita match finally gets added for once 😭 )
 
While skill is on Ken's side, it isn’t enough to counter Pochita's callous fighting style and experience.
High-key it is.

Ghoul Investigators are basically Devil Hunters on crack, in terms of close combat. Ghouls not only develop their own highly advanced combat skills (as shown with Kaneki himself and many other Ghoul martial artists), but have unfathomably superior abilities to the average investigator without a specific type of Quinque, and Kaneki is on the level of a guy who can butcher dozens of ghouls while at a physical disadvantage with just sword skills.

Kaneki not only has a massive skill advantage, but he's working with several tentacle limbs he can control while also fighting with his own normal limbs, making it significantly harder for Pochita to engage him in a fight unless he plays it exclusively at a range. And even if he does try and abuse his mobility, Kaneki's senses will always tell him whenever he's in range, and his Kagune will simply do the rest of the work once Pochita gets close.

If he tries to brawl with Kaneki with no plan, he's getting cooked, no contest. With Pochita's standard mindset, there's no world in which Kaneki doesn't dismantle him the moment he tries to engage. He'll have to continuously fall back on his regeneration—thing about that though is that Kaneki has experience with regeneration, and Pochita's isn't going to throw off his decisions, even if it's incredibly strong.

TLDR - Kaneki is stronger, more skilled, has highly advanced senses he can fall back on to avoid dangerous attacks, and a Kagune he can pair with his normal limbs to basically crush Pochita until he runs out of blood.

Voting Kaneki.
 
Kaneki not only has a massive skill advantage, but he's working with several tentacle limbs he can control while also fighting with his own normal limbs, making it significantly harder for Pochita to engage him in a fight unless he plays it exclusively at a range. And even if he does try and abuse his mobility, Kaneki's senses will always tell him whenever he's in range, and his Kagune will simply do the rest of the work once Pochita gets close.

If he tries to brawl with Kaneki with no plan, he's getting cooked, no contest. With Pochita's standard mindset, there's no world in which Kaneki doesn't dismantle him the moment he tries to engage. He'll have to continuously fall back on his regeneration—thing about that though is that Kaneki has experience with regeneration, and Pochita's isn't going to throw off his decisions, even if it's incredibly strong.

TLDR - Kaneki is stronger, more skilled, has highly advanced senses he can fall back on to avoid dangerous attacks, and a Kagune he can pair with his normal limbs to basically crush Pochita until he runs out of blood.
He can easily get rid of those tentacles by biting them out of existence, ensuring that the tentacles never existed. That gets rid of the possibility of holding off Pochita at a range. When Pochita decides to get close, he can do so with his immensely superior lifting strength by restraining Ken with his chainsaw chains or even his appendages as a backup. Kaneki, with only two limbs, is up against a character with 4 limbs equipped with large chainsaws that would slice through him like cheese.

Pochita can also track Kaneki's movements and location with his enhanced senses, giving him the environmental advantage and a slight speed edge as well. Taking into account Pochita's legsaw, it would replicate the Quanxi vs Pochita clash, but this time, Pochita would rip him wide open and either devour him or repeat the Miri and Quanxi building dash maneuver. Pochita's mindset is similar to Denji's, finding a cleaver way to defeat opponents.

Let’s not forget to mention that Pochita has decades worth of non stop (literally) combat experience, coupled with professional weekly training from Kishibe while observing through Denji's perspective. There is nothing Kaneki can do to put Pochita down for good before he gets obliterated.
 
He can easily get rid of those tentacles by biting them out of existence, ensuring that the tentacles never existed
The tentacles would just... move. Biting is not a very efficient motion at all, Kaneki will effortlessly just maneuver his Kagune around Pochita to pelt him with attacks.

Pochita is NOT Jack Hanma, he does not have a martial arts style centered around biting motions. There's no world where he lunges at Kaneki and successfully bites him unless Kaneki's dormant CTE kicks in and makes him go braindead.
When Pochita decides to get close, he can do so with his immensely superior lifting strength by restraining Ken with his chainsaw chains or even his appendages as a backup.
We've already established the skill advantage, so even if Kaneki lacks his Kagune, Pochita is never going to get a chain around him. His senses would inform him of Pochita's presence the moment he tries to release his chains, and he can simply use his instincts or prediction to dodge out of the way.
Kaneki, with only two limbs, is up against a character with 4 limbs equipped with large chainsaws that would slice through him like cheese.
Dealing with extra appendages is not anything special in Tokyo Ghoul. In fact, the very job description of an investigator is fighting creatures who spawn extra appendages out of their body, which they use in tandem with their actual limbs. This is nothing new to a seasoned Dove, let alone Ken Kaneki.
Pochita can also track Kaneki's movements and location with his enhanced senses, giving him the environmental advantage and a slight speed edge as well.
I don't see how this gives him an environmental advantage at all when Kaneki has the exact same thing, but even more precise. Advanced Ghouls can determine how many people are in a specific far-off room, while also specifically telling them apart from the sound of their footsteps, reverberation, etc. Kaneki lacks Pochita's sensory range, but within the range he's aware of, he can identify targets with much more efficiency than Pochita.
Taking into account Pochita's legsaw, it would replicate the Quanxi vs Pochita clash, but this time, Pochita would rip him wide open and either devour him or repeat the Miri and Quanxi building dash maneuver.
With speed equalized, that's never happening. Senses, plus instincts, plus a general skill advantage means that acrobatic movements like this are just going to leave Pochita open to getting counter-attacked from like 6 different directions.
Let’s not forget to mention that Pochita has decades worth of non stop (literally) combat experience, coupled with professional weekly training from Kishibe while observing through Denji's perspective. There is nothing Kaneki can do to put Pochita down for good before he gets obliterated.
Decades of combat experience spent effortlessly slaughtering fodder devils that could never hope to kill him due to his immortality. Pochita is not the Hero of Hell because he's a skilled Devil Hunter, he is the Hero of Hell because of... literally everything else.

There is no comparison between Pochita using mindless brawler tactics and regeneration spam to butcher Devils with quasi-dura neg piercing attacks to Kaneki's martial arts knowledge, instincts, adaptability, and sheer versatility with his Kagune he's gained through battles where he can't just afford to revive. I'm not saying Kaneki is the ultimate skill God, i am saying Pochita is nothing special.
 
The tentacles would just... move. Biting is not a very efficient motion at all, Kaneki will effortlessly just maneuver his Kagune around Pochita to pelt him with attacks.

Pochita is NOT Jack Hanma, he does not have a martial arts style centered around biting motions. There's no world where he lunges at Kaneki and successfully bites him unless Kaneki's dormant CTE kicks in and makes him go braindead.
The tentacles can't move once they are restrained or within Pochita's effective range. Considering Pochita's extended melee range, they won't get close to his body to begin with, and even if they do, they will most definitely not hit him due to his mobility. Kaneki can hold him at bay, but it’s not an effective tactic to harm Pochita at all, it’s simply enough time to buy himself an opportunity to use the environment as a distraction.
We've already established the skill advantage, so even if Kaneki lacks his Kagune, Pochita is never going to get a chain around him. His senses would inform him of Pochita's presence the moment he tries to release his chains, and he can simply use his instincts or prediction to dodge out of the way.
Pochita can simply overwhelm his senses by tricking him if too many things are happening at once. In the case of his body, he can throw his heart in an unknown direction (or towards Ken) to grow an entirely new body and launch a surprise attack.
I don't see how this gives him an environmental advantage at all when Kaneki has the exact same thing, but even more precise. Advanced Ghouls can determine how many people are in a specific far-off room, while also specifically telling them apart from the sound of their footsteps, reverberation, etc. Kaneki lacks Pochita's sensory range, but within the range he's aware of, he can identify targets with much more efficiency than Pochita.
The main environment advantage Pochita gets is primarily speed, by hooking chains to swing from building to building faster than his original state of speed.
With speed equalized, that's never happening. Senses, plus instincts, plus a general skill advantage means that acrobatic movements like this are just going to leave Pochita open to getting counter-attacked from like 6 different directions.
The thing is, that version of Pochita and Quanxi have the same speed, one is not faster than the other. In referencing this, the same thing happening to Quanxi will happen to Kaneki, whose torso gets split wide open from the upper section. Plus, Pochita is already skilled at counterattacking during acrobatic movements.
Decades of combat experience spent effortlessly slaughtering fodder devils that could never hope to kill him due to his immortality. Pochita is not the Hero of Hell because he's a skilled Devil Hunter, he is the Hero of Hell because of... literally everything else.

There is no comparison between Pochita using mindless brawler tactics and regeneration spam to butcher Devils with quasi-dura neg piercing attacks to Kaneki's martial arts knowledge, instincts, adaptability, and sheer versatility with his Kagune he's gained through battles where he can't just afford to revive. I'm not saying Kaneki is the ultimate skill God, i am saying Pochita is nothing special.
The thing is, Pochita has fought opponents on his level. He has been marked and killed by many of them, but he always rises and kills his opponents because he refuses to stay dead. That’s what practically makes him the hero of hell, in addition to fighting literally the strongest devil, who is transcendent compared to him (off screen) while also taking on several more powerful devils and the other three Horsemen. Even holding your own in a fight against multiple opponents dozens of times stronger than you is impressive to me.

Pochita being a "mindless" brawler is a misunderstanding of his fighting style. He is simply a close range fighter with extremely good combat abilities and even tactics when needed. Dashing in for Kaneki and counter attacking won't be a problem, he can simply use any of the tactics I mentioned above or in my other messages. Pochita's entire kit revolves around chainsaws and eating, but he is far more versatile than Denji when it comes to working with what he has. Kaneki may have the heavy advantage in skill and senses going for him, but Pochita literally excels in everything else, including the fact that if he fails and gets killed, he can always learn from his mistakes and try again until he actually wins, as he does with all his opponents.
 
The tentacles can't move once they are restrained or within Pochita's effective range. Considering Pochita's extended melee range, they won't get close to his body to begin with, and even if they do, they will most definitely not hit him due to his mobility. Kaneki can hold him at bay, but it’s not an effective tactic to harm Pochita at all, it’s simply enough time to buy himself an opportunity to use the environment as a distraction.
Two problems with this.

For one, this argument operates under the assumption Pochita will restrain his tentacles, which you have not provided a valid reason as to how Pochita successfully tags Kaneki or his Kagune with the severe skill disadvantage he's at, as well as Kaneki's superior senses.

For two, Kaneki's kagune can extend up to hundreds of meters, range is not an issue. Even his first, smallest Kakuja produces tentacles that are incredibly large. Kaneki's kagune is not a set of tiny strings that will pelt Pochita from a few feet away, they are incredibly large and incredibly fast appendages that can bend and move in incredibly complex ways, should Kaneki will them. Kaneki's Kagune is a significantly more lethal weapon than some chains Pochita can flail around.

With his Kagune's range and flexibility that doesn't require Kaneki to physically move his body to direct them, he only needs thought, I'd say his mobility is even superior to Pochita's if he decides he wants to use his Kagune to fling himself around.
Pochita can simply overwhelm his senses by tricking him if too many things are happening at once. In the case of his body, he can throw his heart in an unknown direction (or towards Ken) to grow an entirely new body and launch a surprise attack
That's never going to happen. An advanced Ghouls' senses can track dozens of targets at once. Pochita lacks the limbs and the skillset to produce a number of variables capable of overwhelming Kaneki's sensory capacity.

Also, if he throws his heart at Kaneki, Kaneki is just going to crush it and kill him. That is the very, very last thing he wants to do, and I am confident Pochita would not willingly expose his ultimate weakness to an opponent with Kaneki's ability. We can both agree that even if he's not a combat god, he's not an idiot.
The main environment advantage Pochita gets is primarily speed, by hooking chains to swing from building to building faster than his original state of speed.
Lowkey, if Pochita starts swinging himself through buildings to build speed, there's no reason Kaneki wouldn't just copy that and do the exact same. He unironically has Technique Mimicry, and unlike Pochita, Kaneki doesn't need to waste movements to move himself—he can just direct his Kagune intuitively, and fight with both his Kagune and his normal limbs, whilst Pochita is stuck either without the use of his arms or without the use of a portion of them because of him having to swing himself manually.
The thing is, that version of Pochita and Quanxi have the same speed, one is not faster than the other. In referencing this, the same thing happening to Quanxi will happen to Kaneki, whose torso gets split wide open from the upper section. Plus, Pochita is already skilled at counterattacking during acrobatic movements.
Okay, but that was not the point. The point is that if Pochita does not have a speed advantage, he cannot simply outspeed or overwhelm Kaneki's skillset and just waltz up to him and slice him in half. You focused heavily on the speed aspect of my response while failing to address the crux of my argument.
The thing is, Pochita has fought opponents on his level. He has been marked and killed by many of them, but he always rises and kills his opponents because he refuses to stay dead.
Lets stop you right here. If you're admitting that the reason Pochita defeated these opponents is because he simply refuses to die, then you admit that he did not use skill, or tactic, or clever thinking to defeat them, and simply continued to die until he won. Which would be correct, cause that's exactly what he did, but having you basically say it makes my job easier.
(off screen)
Okay, again, stopping you right there. Key words, off screen. We don't know what happened in any of Pochita's past fights, let alone against the Death Devil. You cannot equate this to martial mastery.
but Pochita literally excels in everything else,
He excels in LS. That's it. You've yet to explain to me how Pochita actually does the things you say he can do to Kaneki that Kaneki can do absolutely nothing to avoid.

Kaneki is a better fighter, he has better senses, he has better range, he can mimic Pochita's dubious mobility advantage, and his Kagune is inherently a superior weapon to Pochita's chains due to their flexibility and due to the fact that Kaneki does not actually need to move to utilize his Kagune.
 
I do disagree with some of the points above, but I don't have much time to refute them, but Kaneki's adaptability and stealing Pochita's tactics robs him any chance of winning. So I'm going Ken for reasons above.
 
He can easily get rid of those tentacles by biting them out of existence, ensuring that the tentacles never existed.
You are misinterpreting his powers. He needs to erase the Devil, who embodies the fear of something, to erase the concept.

Otherwise, when eating a burger, he would simply erase the concept of fast food.
Moreover, humanoid devils have arms and legs. By your logic, it would be enough for him to eat someone’s hand and everyone in the world would be without hands
 
The tentacles can't move once they are restrained or within Pochita's effective range. Considering Pochita's extended melee range, they won't get close to his body to begin with, and even if they do, they will most definitely not hit him due to his mobility. Kaneki can hold him at bay, but it’s not an effective tactic to harm Pochita at all, it’s simply enough time to buy himself an opportunity to use the environment as a distraction.
His tentacles are arbitrarily extendable extra limbs. Even if Pochita grabs them, they will grow forward and wriggle.

Moreover, they can begin to take the form of mouths in order to gnaw through these chains.
The shape of the kagune depends purely on the imagination. Much less experienced characters are able to create household items from kagune and meat-mecha suits.

Moreover, Kaneki's arsenal is not limited to tentacles. He can also actively attack with shockwaves, crystal volleys, as well as attacks from underground/walls, create traps and probably elemental damage.

Potita nervously smokes on the sidelines compared to Ken's arsenal
Pochita can simply overwhelm his senses by tricking him if too many things are happening at once. In the case of his body, he can throw his heart in an unknown direction (or towards Ken) to grow an entirely new body and launch a surprise attack.
Kaneki excelled the character, who is able to fight simultaneously with dozens of targets, who have a diverse arsenal of attacks. What you described will not surprise him
The main environment advantage Pochita gets is primarily speed, by hooking chains to swing from building to building faster than his original state of speed.
Kaneki moves easily on walls like Alex Mercer. Potita has no advantage
The thing is, Pochita has fought opponents on his level. He has been marked and killed by many of them, but he always rises and kills his opponents because he refuses to stay dead. That’s what practically makes him the hero of hell, in addition to fighting literally the strongest devil, who is transcendent compared to him (off screen) while also taking on several more powerful devils and the other three Horsemen. Even holding your own in a fight against multiple opponents dozens of times stronger than you is impressive to me.

Pochita being a "mindless" brawler is a misunderstanding of his fighting style. He is simply a close range fighter with extremely good combat abilities and even tactics when needed. Dashing in for Kaneki and counter attacking won't be a problem, he can simply use any of the tactics I mentioned above or in my other messages. Pochita's entire kit revolves around chainsaws and eating, but he is far more versatile than Denji when it comes to working with what he has. Kaneki may have the heavy advantage in skill and senses going for him, but Pochita literally excels in everything else, including the fact that if he fails and gets killed, he can always learn from his mistakes and try again until he actually wins, as he does with all his opponents.
Comparing Potita and Kaneki's skills is like comparing Yujiro's skills and the characters of Tokyo Revengers
 
You are misinterpreting his powers. He needs to erase the Devil, who embodies the fear of something, to erase the concept.

Otherwise, when eating a burger, he would simply erase the concept of fast food.
Moreover, humanoid devils have arms and legs. By your logic, it would be enough for him to eat someone’s hand and everyone in the world would be without hands
I'm not talking about conceptual erasure, I'm talking about individually erasing said thing, for example, that specific burger he ate would have never existed.

I'm also not gonna respond to other points, since I had already dropped them once I gave good thought.
 
I'm not talking about conceptual erasure, I'm talking about individually erasing said thing, for example, that specific burger he ate would have never existed.
No, he just ate a burger.

Moreover, Potitus only needs to be hit hard or his belly ripped open to regain the concept
 
No, he just ate a burger.
When he eats a devil, he erases the concept because devils are concepts. When he eats something individually, like a person, he just erases them individually from existence.

Plain and simple. You can retrieve the concepts by the modes you described, yes.
 
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