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But doesn't joker's power only work on the cognitive world?
- Thread starter God243
- Start date
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I think this is a case of reality equalization
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Sure, that's why he totally didn't bring Morgana back in P5 and its totally never explained by Maruki that one's perception can change the universe
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I believe it’s explained at some point that persona users can summon their powers in the real world so long as they have enough willpower. Hell, the cast of P3 is able to summon their Personas wherever they want through the use of their evokers.
At the end of the OG P5, Morgana actively states that there is no “real world” and that everything is a product of cognition.
At the end of the OG P5, Morgana actively states that there is no “real world” and that everything is a product of cognition.
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no, the Shin Megami Tensei/Persona (or maybe just the latter idk) everything is cognitive and nothing is real
also verse equalization lmao
also verse equalization lmao
SonicBayo1999
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I thought something was up. Could use more explanation. I'm pretty sure there's a valid reason to use Joker despite those conditions.
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I mean, we brought reasons months ago, in the previous replies
SonicBayo1999
He/Him- 450
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If you think that's enough explanation. I only just found this out because I'm in an argument where someone thinks Joker can't use his powers in the real world
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@Smashkabab is correct. Though I'll provide the scans that support what they're referencing.
-Mitsuru Kirijo states that it is possible for one to summon their Persona in the real world under specific circumstances (which are described in the video).
-Morgana confirms that even the "real world" is simply a product of Cognition as well.
-Mitsuru Kirijo states that it is possible for one to summon their Persona in the real world under specific circumstances (which are described in the video).
-Morgana confirms that even the "real world" is simply a product of Cognition as well.
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It's only a hypothetical ability that happens under specific circumstances, which the P4 cast wouldn't have experienced.
TheKingStrategist13
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It really seems that, to a extent, it comes down to the user. More specifically, it comes down to what the user believes.
As we all know, Persona's and the World are both products of cognition. As such, it stands to reason that one's usage of a Persona is, for the most part, limited only by one's cognition.
Ergo, if, say, the Persona 4 cast does not believe that they can use their Persona's in the Real world, then they will not be able to use them in that setting. Inversely, the Persona 3 cast should, for the most part, see no problem's with them being able to use Persona's in the real world, Ergo, they likely would be able to.
The matter of a Persona User being allowed to use or not use their Persona in the real world all comes down to cognition- Much like other concepts we've seen, wherein enough people may believe one thing is real, ergo, it becomes real, such as The Rumors in Persona 2 (Surprised I'd ever find a way to reference the game that I'd actually understand), or in a more recent case where the inverse idea is applied, when Yaldabaoth uses the masses, twisting their cognition to erase the PT's- When enough people believe something isn't real or can't occur, it stands to reason that following this logic, that thing would cease to be or cease to possibly occur.
Hence, if The Investigation Team believe that outside The Shadow World in the TV, they can't use their Persona's, of course they'll be limited to just a group of teenagers. The same would apply to Joker- It would all revolve around his mentality. And while he is arguably on the higher end of understanding in the group when it comes to cognition, not to offend him or other's who understand cognition in the game well such as Futaba, but, it seems that it never crosses the mind's of any of the Phantom Thieves that they could use their Persona's in the real world.
Of course, this could be somewhat or even massively incorrect/wrong/misguided, etc. etc., but that is what the Series and the breadcrumbs it leaves has guided me to seeing- That Persona's and The World are made of Cognition, and that through said cognition is what determines if one can or cannot use their power- If they believe they can, they can. If they believe they cannot, they cannot.
Regardless though, I would like to remind people- As there are certainly going to be a few of those who will try to use this as a means to have Persona User's be relegated to a bunch of powerless teens- That for the means of the VS Battles on this site, it is assumed that said character's are in a state mentally and physically where they can use their abilities, anyways. So regardless of if Ren is only effective in The Metaverse, he will still be using those power's in Vs Debates, as there would be little to no other reason to have him in Vs Debates.
As we all know, Persona's and the World are both products of cognition. As such, it stands to reason that one's usage of a Persona is, for the most part, limited only by one's cognition.
Ergo, if, say, the Persona 4 cast does not believe that they can use their Persona's in the Real world, then they will not be able to use them in that setting. Inversely, the Persona 3 cast should, for the most part, see no problem's with them being able to use Persona's in the real world, Ergo, they likely would be able to.
The matter of a Persona User being allowed to use or not use their Persona in the real world all comes down to cognition- Much like other concepts we've seen, wherein enough people may believe one thing is real, ergo, it becomes real, such as The Rumors in Persona 2 (Surprised I'd ever find a way to reference the game that I'd actually understand), or in a more recent case where the inverse idea is applied, when Yaldabaoth uses the masses, twisting their cognition to erase the PT's- When enough people believe something isn't real or can't occur, it stands to reason that following this logic, that thing would cease to be or cease to possibly occur.
Hence, if The Investigation Team believe that outside The Shadow World in the TV, they can't use their Persona's, of course they'll be limited to just a group of teenagers. The same would apply to Joker- It would all revolve around his mentality. And while he is arguably on the higher end of understanding in the group when it comes to cognition, not to offend him or other's who understand cognition in the game well such as Futaba, but, it seems that it never crosses the mind's of any of the Phantom Thieves that they could use their Persona's in the real world.
Of course, this could be somewhat or even massively incorrect/wrong/misguided, etc. etc., but that is what the Series and the breadcrumbs it leaves has guided me to seeing- That Persona's and The World are made of Cognition, and that through said cognition is what determines if one can or cannot use their power- If they believe they can, they can. If they believe they cannot, they cannot.
Regardless though, I would like to remind people- As there are certainly going to be a few of those who will try to use this as a means to have Persona User's be relegated to a bunch of powerless teens- That for the means of the VS Battles on this site, it is assumed that said character's are in a state mentally and physically where they can use their abilities, anyways. So regardless of if Ren is only effective in The Metaverse, he will still be using those power's in Vs Debates, as there would be little to no other reason to have him in Vs Debates.
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Ren has a real speed feat without his personas in the real world + third eye he should get a key for without his persona being used tbh
TheKingStrategist13
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I'm pretty sure some guys already tried and failed to get that through. You're more than welcome to try to get that added if you want though.
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^^^As others have said before, verse-equalization would allow for Ren (or any Persona user from the "modern" games, for that matter) utilize their abilities in situations where they'd usually be unable to. There's also the in-lore explanation as to how Persona users can potentially use their Personas in the real world, and between those two points, there's not really any reason to question the logistics behind a certain character using an ability in a certain location.
I wouldn't be against "real world" keys for Persona users, assuming there's enough information to fully create them.
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