Buffyverse Revisions

[Random-Helper323]

The current pages for Buffy the Vampire Slayer are a complete mess. First, the main cast is rated as building level or small building level depending on the page based on Buffy and Spike bringing a house down.

The feat in question is this here


This is after they fight. Most of the house is still intact, and it is the aftermath of them fighting the night before. That is to say, it took them hours to even do this much damage. This is not a building level feat.

For the verse's actual feats, I found some decent ones.

Main Cast:

AP:

Angel gets thrown through a concrete pillar, demon crumples an axe blade (Wall level)

Buffy bends and removes a metal grate while a vampire bends and mangles a metal door (the vampire in question is probably Luke, who is actually comparable to Buffy and Angel physically, and it makes sense he'd be at the front targeting Buffy; he specifically wants to avenge her surviving his earlier attack)

Buffy bent steel bars at a police station (Wall level)

Buffy lifts a portcullis (Superhuman lifting strength)

Buffy kicks open a padlocked door (Wall level)

Buffy smashes open a locked wooden door, destroying much of it (Wall level)

Buffy throws Spike hard enough to rip off a piece of the beam he hits (Wall level)

Caleb slams Buffy into a stone column hard enough to heavily damage it (Wall level)

Buffy smashes through several wooden planks (Wall level)

516644.24 Joules for smashing the planks and doors seems the best here. Wall level.



Speed:

Buffy catches a crossbow bolt mid-flight

Angel turns around and catches a crossbow bolt

300km/h reactions/combat speed.

Buffy pushes Faith out of the path of incoming lightning (a bit inconsistent; Buffy, Spike and Angel consistently fail to dodge bullets from handguns, needs calculation)

---

AP: 516644.24 Joules for smashing the planks and doors seems the best here. Wall level.

Speed: 300km/h reactions/combat speed.

This would scale to Buffy, Angel, Spike and Faith.

 

[Eseseso]

The current pages for Buffy the Vampire Slayer are a complete mess. First, the main cast is rated as building level or small building level depending on the page based on Buffy and Spike bringing a house down.

The feat in question is this here


This is after they fight. Most of the house is still intact, and it is the aftermath of them fighting the night before. That is to say, it took them hours to even do this much damage. This is not a building level feat.

For the verse's actual feats, I found some decent ones.

Main Cast:

AP:

Spike and Angel tank an explosion (I think this is likely the best live-action feat, but since they had time to throw the bomb away, we don't know how close they were when it went off. Needs calculation.)

Angel falls from a high floor of a skyscraper (Needs calculation)

Angel gets thrown through a concrete pillar, demon crumples an axe blade (Wall level)

Buffy bends and removes a metal grate while a vampire bends and mangles a metal door (the vampire in question is probably Luke, who is actually comparable to Buffy and Angel physically, and it makes sense he'd be at the front targeting Buffy; he specifically wants to avenge her surviving his earlier attack)

Buffy bent steel bars at a police station (Wall level)

Buffy lifts a portcullis (Superhuman lifting strength)

Buffy kicks open a padlocked door (Wall level)

Buffy smashes open a locked wooden door, destroying much of it (Wall level)

Buffy throws Spike hard enough to rip off a piece of the beam he hits (Wall level)

Caleb slams Buffy into a stone column hard enough to heavily damage it (Wall level)

Buffy smashes through several wooden planks (Wall level)



Speed:

Buffy catches a crossbow bolt mid-flight (Needs calculation)

Angel turns around and catches a crossbow bolt (Needs calculation)

Buffy pushes Faith out of the path of incoming lightning (a bit inconsistent; Buffy, Spike and Angel consistently fail to dodge bullets from handguns, needs calculation)

To start with, the verse needs to have Buffy, Angel and Spike listed as Wall level until these calculations are done.

Having seen their fight that didn't really destroy the house, I agree with the OP.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I will ask for a calculation for the explosion, but we don't know if Spike and Angel threw it away, so it might be unusable.

I think I can calculate the skyscraper fall myself. That will probably be the vest AP feat. Calculated it, it's 72000 joules, less than the planks.

For speed, I think we can use crossbow bolt speed and say they compare to it, so 300km/h. Might need a calculation though. I'm very iffy on the lightning speed feat.

For now though, Wall level and undefined superhuman speed and lifting strength. For now.

 

[Random-Helper323]

OP updated. I've narrowed it down to the feats that make the most sense. I think it's ready for staff to look at.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Looks good to me.

Thanks for the quick response. So this should be good to apply.

Do you think the lightning thing is at all viable, or is it too inconsistent with all the other feats and anti-feats? Buffy, Angel and Spike all have repeated and consistent anti-feats of being unable to avoid bullets.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I've made the changes, but I think the current ratings for Willow and Illyria are even worse. Willow is listed as 8-A for destroying a store, and Illyria is listed as 6-C for a statement that her self-destructing would do significant damage to the continental shelf. That clearly needs revision too.

 

[Ignatheus]

Funny you have this lightning feat for Buffy i was planning on calcing it to angel. His was even more impressive. He was standing behind the woman when she shot at willow in front of her. He managed to out run the lightning to grab willow.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Funny you have this lightning feat for Buffy i was planning on calcing it to angel. His was even more impressive. He was standing behind the woman when she shot at willow in front of her. He managed to out run the lightning to grab willow.

I'd have to check. In fairness, Buffy and Angel have lots of anti-feats like repeatedly failing to dodge bullets, and struggling to catch a bus, and receiving assistance with Giles' car to catch a fleeing demon. All while that lightning stuff is vastly higher than any other speed feat in the verse. So it could easily be treated as too inconsistent to use.

 

[Ignatheus]

I'd have to check. In fairness, Buffy and Angel have lots of anti-feats like repeatedly failing to dodge bullets, and struggling to catch a bus, and receiving assistance with Giles' car to catch a fleeing demon. All while that lightning stuff is vastly higher than any other speed feat in the verse. So it could easily be treated as too inconsistent to use.

So i remembed that there was a canon comic series called Season 8 picking up after the 7th season and boy... They live in an omniverse. Buffy has flight and had sex that pretty much shook the planet and reality. She even had the chance to create her own universe. I need to dive into it more but so far they got crazy upgrades in the comics. Most of the cast is probably Supersonic to MHS. Also probably mountain to city level if not much much higher. She took out a mountain while having sex... Went into space and crashed to the ground... while moving fast enough to travel through time and space.

They went Marvel with this comic and it's crazy haha.

We got a major upgrade for the verse i guess.

 

[Random-Helper323]

The comics are a bit inconsistent with the show. All the sudden new powers come out of nowhere and heavily contradict numerous anti-feats from the show, so I don't know. I'm also not sure how canon they really are.

 

[Ignatheus]

The comics are a bit inconsistent with the show. All the sudden new powers come out of nowhere and heavily contradict numerous anti-feats from the show, so I don't know. I'm also not sure how canon they really are.

Joss Whedon said they were and even wrote some. If the creator said they're in then we push it along with his other works.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Joss Whedon was never the owner of the IP. The Kazuis were, so arguably anything made afterwards is questionable. At absolute best we'd be looking at seperate keys for show as opposed to comics. And considering the significant number of anti-feats in the show, it's hard to suddenly say Buffy and co. who before struggled to lift portcullis gates, couldn't break steel doors, were injured or knocked out from falling off a tower, couldn't harm Glory who was injured when a truck hit her and when a roof fell on her, and many more, were able to shatter mountains the whole time.

 

[Ignatheus]

Joss Whedon was never the owner of the IP. The Kazuis were, so arguably anything made afterwards is questionable. At absolute best we'd be looking at seperate keys for show as opposed to comics. And considering the significant number of anti-feats in the show, it's hard to suddenly say Buffy and co. who before struggled to lift portcullis gates, couldn't break steel doors, were injured or knocked out from falling off a tower, couldn't harm Glory who was injured when a truck hit her and when a roof fell on her, and many more, were able to shatter mountains the whole time.

Glory fell from the sky to the ground and kept it moving. Spike if i recall is thrown out of a tall building and is up and ready in the next sec. Willow was about to destroy the entire planet. The show is a lot more powerful than people give credit. Also those feats all had powerups. Buffy got a power-up from all the slayers to be able to do those feats. It stacked multiple beings into her. So it'd 100% get a key either way. Due to it being a drawing, characters will do more stuff, we see this in all walks of fiction from Superheros who aren't impressive in their live action versions but we know damn well their animated versions are 100% closer to the comics in terms of power. Read any novelization of a story and watch the fantasy and action kick up to 1000%.

Canon is not always about who holds IP rights. Ultimately it's subjective, but Word of God trumps all. If George Lucas came out and started saying what is what best believe fans would drop anything Disney spoke as canon. The writer aka the creator trumps everything. Kazuis co-owns creator rights but he was never the creator of the series that this expands to. There aren't any real conflicts being made from the comics to the series this is simply what they would do if they had the budget and powers to get it done.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Glory fell from the sky to the ground and kept it moving

Actually, she was never seen afterwards even though she should have been able to go after them again straight away. That's another anti-feat, since it implies she was stopped by it.

. Spike if i recall is thrown out of a tall building and is up and ready in the next sec.

He was knocked unconscious by the fall. That's actually another anti-feat.

Willow was about to destroy the entire planet.

She was going to awaken a demonic church which was going to release demons to kill everyone. Anya and Giles effectively said she needed those demons to wipe out humanity, because Anya doubted Willow could "destroy the world", and Giles said "she can where she's going". So it's not a power feat.

Buffy got a power-up from all the slayers to be able to do those feats. It stacked multiple beings into her.

Right after the spell in the show she struggled to catch up to a school bus.

So it'd 100% get a key either way. Due to it being a drawing, characters will do more stuff, we see this in all walks of fiction from Superheros who aren't impressive in their live action versions but we know damn well their animated versions are 100% closer to the comics in terms of power. Read any novelization of a story and watch the fantasy and action kick up to 1000%.

This is true, and I can see where you're coming from on this, but there's a difference between the live action lacking such high feats as opposed to being filled with anti-feats.

Canon is not always about who holds IP rights. Ultimately it's subjective, but Word of God trumps all

It's pretty questionable how that works.

. If George Lucas came out and started saying what is what best believe fans would drop anything Disney spoke as canon

George Lucas already disagrees with Disney on the direction the story took. He likened what Disney did to his franchise to slavery. And yet the profiles here treat the Disney content as canon while the EU which Lucas heavily leaned into and supported is non-canon.

There aren't any real conflicts being made from the comics to the series this is simply what they would do if they had the budget and powers to get it done.

Except that the show contains loads of anti-feats, several of which are central to the outcomes of the story such as Buffy failing to dodge bullets from Warren's pistol and Glory being damaged by the truck hitting her, that contradict the power showings in the comics.

 

[Qawsedf234]

She even had the chance to create her own universe. I need to dive into it more but so far they got crazy upgrades in the comics.

While she did do this, that was a temporary amp for a story arc. She lost her powers afterwards.

 

[Ignatheus]

Actually, she was never seen afterwards even though she should have been able to go after them again straight away. That's another anti-feat, since it implies she was stopped by it.

No, willow teleported her in the sky. In what planet is that an anti feat. It's implied she lands and keeps it moving. No broken legs nothing.

He was knocked unconscious by the fall. That's actually another anti-feat.

He got up and makes a joke as Angel is walking. So not an anti-feat. (Angel S5 ep 11 btw)
[Angel shows up just in time to see Spike being thrown from a window]

Angel:
What happened?

Spike:
Oh, I just thought I'd see what it was like to bounce off the pavement. Pretty much what I expected.

She was going to awaken a demonic church which was going to release demons to kill everyone. Anya and Giles effectively said she needed those demons to wipe out humanity, because Anya d

Wrong.. She was draining the planet's energy to then channel it through Proserpexa's Effigy and burn the entire world. There weren't any demons it was all her and the planet.
(Buffy s6 ep 22)

Right after the spell in the show she struggled to catch up to a school bus.

That wasn't the spell i was referring to i was talking about the comic which made sense because her powers didn't just jump out of no where they got a buff from other slayers. In terms of that scene you're referring to.. she was stabbed and just fought an army.

Except that the show contains loads of anti-feats, several of which are central to the outcomes of the story such as Buffy failing to dodge bullets from Warren's pistol and Glory being damaged by the truck hitting her, that contradict the power showings in the comics.

The failure to dodge the bullet is indeed a plot hole and inconsistent with other showings. I've seen vampires dodge bullets in the show and buffy is as fast as them on top of the lightning reaction. This is similar to when Flash or Superman get shot by bullets when they're massively faster than them. Can we really take her speed away when we don't do that for them?

Remind me again.. when did glory get hurt by a truck? I don't remember someone hitting her. She got hit with a wrecker ball through a building after willow put a hole in her brain and they used multiple spells to debuff her, and buffy hit her with the god troll hammer. If that was the scene, you're talking about then it only speaks to how powerful she was that they all weakened her and she kept getting up.

 

[Ignatheus]

While she did do this, that was a temporary amp for a story arc. She lost her powers afterwards.

This is why I said we'd 100% add a key as it isn't a kept power. But most of the cool feats happen out side of that event too.

 

[Random-Helper323]

No, willow teleported her in the sky. In what planet is that an anti feat. It's implied she lands and keeps it moving. No broken legs nothing.

That landing is a wall level feat, and she landed not too far away. And yet she didn't come running back, which suggests she didn't instantly recover. And the truck anti-feat provides support for this.

He got up and makes a joke as Angel is walking. So not an anti-feat. (Angel S5 ep 11 btw)
[Angel shows up just in time to see Spike being thrown from a window]

He is knocked out when Doc throws him off a tower, and falling off a skyscraper is also wall level. Even Angel only being sore after falling off a skyscraper is him being sore after a wall level impact.

Wrong.. She was draining the planet's energy to then channel it through Proserpexa's Effigy and burn the entire world. There weren't any demons it was all her and the planet.
(Buffy s6 ep 22)

The fact that she needed extra materials and was stated to be in the process of using this church to do it just means she can't do it herself, and Buffyverse frequently uses "destroy the world" to refer to things that wouldn't come close to destroying the planet, like the mayor who died from a few tons of TNT and Adam who was going to create a super army but not bust the planet itself.

she was stabbed and just fought an army.

Yeah, but that speed feat was very similar to lots of others she has.

The failure to dodge the bullet is indeed a plot hole and inconsistent with other showings.

The bullets are just one set of anti-feats. The show is full of them, so much so those anti-feats include some of her best feats, because that's how inconsistent the comic is.

I've seen vampires dodge bullets in the show and buffy is as fast as them

I don't recall any occasions where vampires reacted to incoming bullets in the show. By contrast, we have Angel and Buffy unable to dodge bullets, Spike unable to dodge an incoming tracer shot from a gun, in addition to Spike struggling to outrun human soldiers, Buffy needing help via a car to catch a demon, and more.

on top of the lightning reaction.

Repeatedly fails to dodge bullets and equivalent projectiles, needs help from a car to catch a fleeing demon, struggles to catch a school bus, struggling to outrun humans on foot, and meanwhile there's one lightning feat which may not even be lightning speed, and is enormously inconsistent.

This is similar to when Flash or Superman get shot by bullets when they're massively faster than them. Can we really take her speed away when we don't do that for them?

Because they have multiple demonstrations of those kinds of speed with no uncertainty, and even if they didn't the bullets are way slower than even their low end feats. If Buffy had repeated feats of dodging bullets and lightning and then was shown failing to react to an incoming car, it's the car anti-feat I'd be calling inconsistent. It's also not really Flash and Superman who get that stuff, the worst offender is Thor.

There's also another possible concern I had with the lightning. The glove uses lightning as a weapon, but the lightning strikes the glove and then the glove either redirects it or uses it to fuel a blast. The electric attacks have no feats to soundly prove lightning level power.

Remind me again.. when did glory get hurt by a truck? I don't remember someone hitting her.

When she chased Buffy and got hit by a truck, and ended up noticeably shaken and weakened enough that Ben took over.

She got hit with a wrecker ball through a building after willow put a hole in her brain and they used multiple spells to debuff her, and buffy hit her with the god troll hammer. If that was the scene, you're talking about then it only speaks to how powerful she was that they all weakened her and she kept getting up.

These details are relevant to how Glory compares to Buffy, but when the wrecking ball hit her she was still stronger than Buffy, and yet it sent her flying and hurt her. So even that counts as an anti-feat if we're going for tier 7 Buffy. If we merge the shows and comics entirely then the entire show is one gigantic anti-feat. The levels of power are so different that even the best feats in the show all count as anti-feats for the comics.