Broly, Goten, and Trunks Stats

[SomebodyData]

Goten And Trunks

After looking at the Goten and Trunk's profiles, I see that they are rated as Large Star level in Super Sayian from scaling to 18. However, I believe that the reasoning behind the scaling was a tad misinterperted. My reasoning for this comes from the end of the fight itself, (Sorry if the audio is bad) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlweJ_-C8Ew

In the fight, 18 says that during her fight she was underestimating them (implying she has not gone 100% on them), and she shows much more worry over the people in the tournement, espically considering that she dodged Mighty Mask's Big Tree Cannon attack because it would have killed everyone there.

What I'm trying to say is that they should simply be put at At least Small Star level, with the reasoning being that would be the minimum considering the SSJ multiplier, and likely Star level+ as super sayians, were atleast some where near Android 18

Broly
For Broly, all I really want to is to add on to his stats, which I propose:

Tier: High 4-C | At least High 4-C, possibly 4-A | Likely 4-B | High 4-C

Attack Potency: Large Star level+ (Able to fight with Base Goku and an adult Base Gohan, stomped SSJ Goten and Trunks) | At least Large Star level (Was capable of demolishing 2 MSSJs, 2 ASSJs, and a Super Namek; his power is high enough that Son Goku did not allow Gohan [Who had the potential to become SSJ2 at this point] to fight), possibly Multi-Solar System level (See note) | Likely Solar System level (Was able to demolish SSJ2 Adult Gohan) | Large Star level (Able to beat down Android 18)

Durability: Large Star level+ (Was able to be stunned and damaged by Base Goku and SSJ Goten and Trunks, however, when in the prescence of Goku he was able of resisting attacks from ASSJ Vegeta, suggesting the earlier examples occur when he isn't serious) | At least Large Star level (Was completely unfazed from a full powered Super Kamehameha, resistent to all other attacks as well) | Likely Solar System level (Was only able to be stunned by SSJ2 Gohan up untill the beam clash) | Large Star level (Was only able to be temporaryily stunned with some damage by Android 18)

Key: Super Sayian | Legendary Super Sayian (Movie 8) | Legendary Super Sayian (Movie 10) | Bio Broly

 

[Thebluedash]

Seems reasonable at first glance.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Downgrade is required.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

I agree with the stats change i don't know how people even think to scale them to 18.

 

[Ryukama]

Okay this seems good imo. How good of a fight Trunks and Goten faired against Android 18 is worth noting but she clearly wasn't giving it her absolute all. The way Broly's stats are elebaorated on in your proposal sounds better as well. I'll support this.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

indeed, 18 wasnt fighting with the mindset of fighting a namek saga super saiyan tier or something


if she tried, she wud have destroyed them quickly and relatively easily

so i guess overall dawrf star for base and star level for ssj forms- how oes that sound?

i go for base dawrf star cuz the son goku special wasnt written by toriyama


overall, i do think ssj trunks and goten are well below 18

 

[AllanSaiyan]

indeed, 18 wasnt fighting with the mindset of fighting a namek saga super saiyan tier or something

if she tried, she wud have destroyed them quickly and relatively easily

so i guess overall dawrf star for base and star level for ssj forms- how oes that sound?

i go for base dawrf star cuz the son goku special wasnt written by toriyama


overall, i do think ssj trunks and goten are well below 18

That sounds reasonable.

 

[Promestein]

I agree with all these stats, and TLT's suggestion of "At least Dwarf Star level" for them in base.

 

[SomebodyData]

so i guess overall dawrf star for base and star level for ssj forms- how oes that sound?

i go for base dawrf star cuz the son goku special wasnt written by toriyama

overall, i do think ssj trunks and goten are well below 18

Hmmm, actually considering everything High 5-A does seem good although now considering ssj multipliers, although technically even at the highest point of High 5-A they would get on the literal peak of small star level+. so wouldn't small star level+ as a SSJ be technically the proper rating? I'll edit that now.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

normal star level seems a better estimate i think


unless we consider ssj multipliers

 

[SomebodyData]

normal star level seems a better estimate i think
unless we consider ssj multipliers

I propose we do use SSJ multipliers, considering we also use kk multipliers for speed, so ssj for power/dura

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

but it is not established yet.... right?

 

[SomebodyData]

but it is not established yet.... right?

What do you mean?

 

[LordAizenSama]

don't forget, they also trained in the hyperbolic time chamber after this, piccolo noted they got substantially stronger

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

so post training = possibly large star level (low end)?

 

[LordAizenSama]

I think they'd be scaleable Android 18 post training, yes

 

[SomebodyData]

Actually I doubt that. Yo! Son Goku Returns occurs after the training (ie when they struggled with the Ginyu Force level characters).

Also, while Akira did not write the special, Tarble (Vegeta's brother) was mentioned in BoG which confirms it as canon.

 

[LordAizenSama]

seems like PIS anyway. they would be way above ginyu fodder even in base with the stats you got from the op.

 

[SomebodyData]

seems like PIS anyway. they would be way above ginyu fodder even in base with the stats you got from the op.

Actually, its still possible that the kids can struggle with the Ginyu level characters (they actually begin to struggle once they multiply, putting 6 vs 2) and be High 5-A, (Ginyu himself is regarded as 5-A but to what extent really isn't known).

 

[LordAizenSama]

thats basically saying that friezas first form will struggle with the ginyu force. I don't see it.

 

[SomebodyData]

thats basically saying that friezas first form will struggle with the ginyu force. I don't see it.

Actually, 1st form Frieza did struggle a bit against Vegeta who in turn could not beat Ginyu normally.

 

[Promestein]

That was after Vegeta got a massive Zenkai boost after getting beaten to a pulp by Recoome.

 

[SomebodyData]

That was after Vegeta got a massive Zenkai boost after getting beaten to a pulp by Recoome.

Vegeta had already healed from Recoome during his fight from with a massively damaged Ginyu...

 

[Promestein]

Considering Vegeta gave first form Freeza trouble and was probably just toying with Ginyu because that's a thing Vegeta does constantly, it's far more likely he was on Freeza's level.

 

[LordAizenSama]

vegeta definitely tied first form frieza there.

 

[SomebodyData]

Considering Vegeta gave first form Freeza trouble and was probably just toying with Ginyu because that's a thing Vegeta does constantly, it's far more likely he was on Freeza's level.

That is not at all what happened, even going full out, Ginyu laughs at most of it, only struggling due to the self inflincted damage and wanting to get damaged https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6iRXjq8ASw

 

[Promestein]

He... literally laughs because he wants Vegeta to get overconfident and run right into the body change.

Regardless, this would involve a lot of rescaling, and we've rescaled Dragon Ball enough in the past month.

 

[SomebodyData]

He... literally laughs because he wants Vegeta to get overconfident and run right into the body change.
Regardless, this would involve a lot of rescaling, and we've rescaled Dragon Ball enough in the past month.

Regardless, it still looks like hes actually keeping up with vegeta's blows, if the gap was truly thta huge then Vegeta would have one shot him. Oh, and if you want someone to feel overconfident laughing at him isn't really the way to go...

Lol, true. But technically speaking really it only changes Goku and Ginyu

 

[LordAizenSama]

its not like its past vegeta to toy around with his opponents. Nail who was par with the ginyus besides captain ginyu could not make frieza move. or even flinch.

 

[SomebodyData]

its not like its past vegeta to toy around with his opponents. Nail who was par with the ginyus besides captain ginyu could not make frieza move. or even flinch.

This further suggests that Ginyu truly is far above the other Ginyu Force members in power

 

[LordAizenSama]

there are way to many assumptions you're making to convince me to even consider this.

 

[Promestein]

The fact that Vegeta tied first form Freeza and actually pressured him enough to get him slightly irritated and bother transforming speaks way more than Vegeta screwing around with Ginyu because he's an overconfident idiot.

Regardless, I have a really hard time believing that Goten and Trunks are 5-A in base; if they were on par with SSJ Goku when he first transformed, they'd be Small Star level+ in base. Like he was. I'd be most comfortable with "Small Star level+ in base, Star level+ as SSJ", and "Large Star level" after their time in the time chamber.

Yo! Son Goku and Friends Return! should not be taken more seriously than their more legitimate showings and legitimate scaling. It's inconsistent.

 

[SomebodyData]

there are way to many assumptions you're making to convince me to even consider this.

Can I ask what my assumptions are? We are literally seeing the same Vegeta that fought 1st Form Frieza have to pull some effort to take down Ginyu, it seems pretty cut and dry that Ginyu may be stronger than we think in Vsbattles right now.

 

[SomebodyData]

The fact that Vegeta tied first form Freeza and actually pressured him enough to get him slightly irritated and bother transforming speaks way more than Vegeta screwing around with Ginyu because he's an overconfident idiot.
Regardless, I have a really hard time believing that Goten and Trunks are 5-A in base; if they were on par with SSJ Goku when he first transformed, they'd be Small Star level+ in base. Like he was. I'd be most comfortable with "Small Star level+ in base, Star level+ as SSJ", and "Large Star level" after their time in the time chamber.

Yo! Son Goku and Friends Return! should not be taken more seriously than their more legitimate showings and legitimate scaling. It's inconsistent.

Vegeta gets irrated in his fight quite a bit, I doubt he wouldn't be trying to kill him, I mean Ginyu laughing would make it look more like hes trying to anger him, not increase his confidence.

Wait, where are you getting the idea that they're on par with Goku when he first transformed?

Uh okay. I don't see what its contradicting, but I don;t really hae the best of memories about the special expect for the fight lol

 

[Promestein]

Ginyu was probably laughing because he thought he was going to be able to pull off a body change. If Vegeta was going full force, he wouldn't have wasted time to boast and posture. He would have punched clean through Ginyu's chest.

a) The fact that they registered on 18's radar at all as Super Saiyans makes me VERY doubtful that they're even on par with someone as weak as Final Form Freeza, especially when both 18 and 17 saw SSJ Vegeta and Trunks as jokes. Being comparable to SSJ Goku is the absolute bare minimum to their power.

b) Basically everyone was impressed by how strong they were.

 

[LordAizenSama]

you are assuming vegeta was fully serious against ginyu, who was heavily weakened and somehow able to match vegeta.

you've actually now made me bother to look up the manga, please point out where ginyu matched vegeta.

 

[SomebodyData]

Ginyu was probably laughing because he thought he was going to be able to pull off a body change. If Vegeta was going full force, he wouldn't have wasted time to boast and posture. He would have punched clean through Ginyu's chest.
a) The fact that they registered on 18's radar at all as Super Saiyans makes me VERY doubtful that they're even on par with someone as weak as Final Form Freeza, especially when both 18 and 17 saw SSJ Vegeta and Trunks as jokes. Being comparable to SSJ Goku is the absolute bare minimum to their power.

b) Basically everyone was impressed by how strong they were.

Except he didn't boast and posture, I think we're not talking about the same fights (pretty sure he only boasted against Goku-Ginyu), also up untill Goku tries to speak to Vegeta was getting really irrated, however, afterwards it was becoming clear that Ginyu couldn't take much more as he was actually beginning to get scratches not from his fight with Goku

a) you seem to also forget that 18 was impressed with them even before they went ssj, noting that they're strongger than most fighters, and then she states that shes been underestimating them, which likely means she hasnt given her all

b) By then the kids had already suprassed most of the z-fighters, and they were mostly impressed with gotenks.

 

[Promestein]

I see no reason why Goten and Trunks would be weaker than Final Form Freeza when Freeza is an irrelevant villain from several sagas ago, every SSJ since Goku's first transformation has been significantly more powerful than the both of them, and Goten and Trunks are portrayed as prodigies.

Star level+ is the lowest I'd accept for their power as Super Saiyans.

 

[SomebodyData]

you are assuming vegeta was fully serious against ginyu, who was heavily weakened and somehow able to match vegeta.
you've actually now made me bother to look up the manga, please point out where ginyu matched vegeta.

The fact that Vegeta got angry kinda implied that

Ah, its filler well nevermind then.

 

[SomebodyData]

I see no reason why Goten and Trunks would be weaker than Final Form Freeza when Freeza is an irrelevant villain from several sagas ago, every SSJ since Goku's first transformation has been significantly more powerful than the both of them, and Goten and Trunks are portrayed as prodigies.
Star level+ is the lowest I'd accept for their power as Super Saiyans.

Hmm alright then, I'll change to Star level+ as a super sayain, and small star level as base?