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Sternritter U - The Useless.
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Cascada is more like her usual attacks similar to R1 Ulquiorra's Luz de Luna. The Cero Oscuras is a specific move that is an order of magnitude greater and capable of destroying Las Noches. So while Harribel has the Reiatsu, her Cascada does not. At best we can say Cascada > R1 Ulquiorra's Luz de Luna.Malikobama1 said:
(Luz de Luna is the spear that R1 Ulquiorra's uses if people don't know since it was only given a name in the databooks.)
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Why would he hold one of their ultimate attacks to the same level of their casual attacks?
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^ Context?
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The last few posts confused me...
What are we given to believe that a character is only capable of a certain level of destruction by using a particular technique. We know that they are capable of it because we deduce that they are able to use the attack. However, to use the scenarios given, what would happpen if Harribel pumped Cascada with the same amount of reiatsu that CO requires? IIRC she displayed the ability to vary the amount of water produced. The ultimate attack of one character =/= the ultimate attack of another.
Reiatsu does not necessaarily = AP. Reiatsu = dura
And from what I gathered, the only other thing dura scales to when there is a lack of feats, is striking strength, due to equal and opposite reaction, and in Bleach striking strength scales to the opponent (or a feat ofc)
Just because one has the requisite reiatsu does not automatically make them capable of using it correctly. Conversely, just because they used an attack, does not mean that they powered it to its full potential. Especially when they scale to greater attacks.
The AP of a move is not always proportionate to the amount of energy funnelled into it. Some techniques are amplified, or inefficient. Only when given to evidence either way, do we assume an equal proportion
For example: Grimmjow uses GRC on Ichigo and Ichigo lolnos it. We know that Ichigo scales to GRC because he tanked it. We do not know that Grimmjow's reiatsu scales to the GRC, due to the fact that he used his blood as an amplifier (granted we are unaware of how much of a boost it is, but you get the picture).
What are we given to believe that a character is only capable of a certain level of destruction by using a particular technique. We know that they are capable of it because we deduce that they are able to use the attack. However, to use the scenarios given, what would happpen if Harribel pumped Cascada with the same amount of reiatsu that CO requires? IIRC she displayed the ability to vary the amount of water produced. The ultimate attack of one character =/= the ultimate attack of another.
Reiatsu does not necessaarily = AP. Reiatsu = dura
And from what I gathered, the only other thing dura scales to when there is a lack of feats, is striking strength, due to equal and opposite reaction, and in Bleach striking strength scales to the opponent (or a feat ofc)
Just because one has the requisite reiatsu does not automatically make them capable of using it correctly. Conversely, just because they used an attack, does not mean that they powered it to its full potential. Especially when they scale to greater attacks.
The AP of a move is not always proportionate to the amount of energy funnelled into it. Some techniques are amplified, or inefficient. Only when given to evidence either way, do we assume an equal proportion
For example: Grimmjow uses GRC on Ichigo and Ichigo lolnos it. We know that Ichigo scales to GRC because he tanked it. We do not know that Grimmjow's reiatsu scales to the GRC, due to the fact that he used his blood as an amplifier (granted we are unaware of how much of a boost it is, but you get the picture).
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The technique "GRC" requires blood to use, but what makes it different from a regular Cero if it uses more reiatsu?
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Yes, and I'd say especially in Bleach. Which makes me doubt CO > Cascada.AppleLord said:
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CO is an ultimate attack similar to GRC. Cascada is a casual attack. CO and GRC have the Las Noches busting statements backing them up as being more lethal compared to a regular attack.
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Uh this
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It might actually be either Pulverization or worst case scenario, Vaporization
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Doesn't take much effort and doesn't have the hype behind it like Cero Oscuras does. Ulquiorra's "Cascada" equivalent during his Resurreccion is Luz de Luna and Cero Oscuras dwarfed that ability in everything.
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You asked to bring something up and I did, sorry that I didn't meet your expectationsDr.Fix said:
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Characters shouldn't be equalized like that, just because one character might lack an ability that surpasses a shared technique, does not mean that another also does.
And difference in hype could just be that Kubo already established Harribel's general superiority to Ulquiorra, and so it would only be natural that she does not need to use CO.
And difference in hype could just be that Kubo already established Harribel's general superiority to Ulquiorra, and so it would only be natural that she does not need to use CO.
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So you see Harribel's Cascada AP as more powerful than Ulquiorra's CO AP/DC is what you're saying?
I couldn't agree given Cero Oscuras wording:
Bleach UNMASKED Databook 3. Pg. 54
Cero Oscuras:
Main Kanji: Þºúµö¥þèµàïÒü½ÒüéÒéïÕìüÕêâÒüîõ¢┐ÒüêÒéï, Ú╗ÆÒüäÞÖÜÚûâÒÇéÚÇÜÕ©©Òü«ÞÖÜÚûâÒü¿µ»öÞ╝âÒüùÒüªÒÇüµíüÚüòÒüäÒü«Õ¿üÕèøÒéƵ£ëÒüÖÒéïµèÇÒÇé
Translation: Usable by the Espada in their released state, Cero Oscuras. In comparison to the regular Cero, it is an ability that is an order of magnitude more powerful.
Sub Text Kanji: õ©ÇµÆâÒüºõ©ÇÞ¡ÀÒü«õ╗«ÚØóÒéÆÕë▓ÒéïÒüáÒüæÒüºÒü¬ÒüÅÒÇüÞÖÜÕñ£Õ««ÒéÆÒééþá┤ÕúèÒüÖÒéïþ¿ïÒü«Õ╝ÀÕèøÒüòÒÇé
Translation: In a single blow Ichigo's mask is broken, it also has the power to destroy Las Noches.
I couldn't agree given Cero Oscuras wording:
Bleach UNMASKED Databook 3. Pg. 54
Cero Oscuras:
Main Kanji: Þºúµö¥þèµàïÒü½ÒüéÒéïÕìüÕêâÒüîõ¢┐ÒüêÒéï, Ú╗ÆÒüäÞÖÜÚûâÒÇéÚÇÜÕ©©Òü«ÞÖÜÚûâÒü¿µ»öÞ╝âÒüùÒüªÒÇüµíüÚüòÒüäÒü«Õ¿üÕèøÒéƵ£ëÒüÖÒéïµèÇÒÇé
Translation: Usable by the Espada in their released state, Cero Oscuras. In comparison to the regular Cero, it is an ability that is an order of magnitude more powerful.
Sub Text Kanji: õ©ÇµÆâÒüºõ©ÇÞ¡ÀÒü«õ╗«ÚØóÒéÆÕë▓ÒéïÒüáÒüæÒüºÒü¬ÒüÅÒÇüÞÖÜÕñ£Õ««ÒéÆÒééþá┤ÕúèÒüÖÒéïþ¿ïÒü«Õ╝ÀÕèøÒüòÒÇé
Translation: In a single blow Ichigo's mask is broken, it also has the power to destroy Las Noches.
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The databook says an order of magnitude more powerful, when compared to a regular Cero. Are you saying Harribel's normal Cero = Cascada?
We didn't the full power of the Luz, a casual swing with it tore through Ichigo's GT and his hollow mask, so I hesitate to call CO completely superior to it. And he really only used it to educate Ichigo(lol).
We didn't the full power of the Luz, a casual swing with it tore through Ichigo's GT and his hollow mask, so I hesitate to call CO completely superior to it. And he really only used it to educate Ichigo(lol).
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The capabilities of Luz only scale to being superior to Ichigo with his Mask. Cero Oscuras is getting upgraded since it could destroy Las Noches which is going to be a lot bigger once it's calc gets through. That Ichigo is around 7-A and busting Las Noches with CO is going to be above 6-C most likely with it's size.
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That does not change my point, CO broke Ichigo's mask and dealt significant damage to Ichigo, the only reason Luz did not do the same is because Ulquiorra was parried by GT, so actually, Luz would have killed Ichigo, while he straight-up, tanked the full effect of the CO.
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Yeah Ichigo used Getsuga to protect himself from Luz de Luna
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Well for starters, Luz De Luna is just an energy spear used for melee combat. It would mean that Ulquiorra's physical strength with Luz > Ichigo + Mask + Getsuga and it only took off part of the Mask.
CO not only destroyed the Mask but it destroyed over half of Ichigo's Shihakusho and severely wounded him.
CO not only destroyed the Mask but it destroyed over half of Ichigo's Shihakusho and severely wounded him.
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If Luz held together while doing that, it still scales to the feat. And he does thow the Luz.
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Yeah, Luz can endure the clash, but Ulquiorra puts the physical strength behind it. Throwing it isn't a special thing, it's literally a melee weapon, it's not like Lanza Del Relampago where it has a special effect. It's pretty much similar to Starrk's Colmillo where it's a formed melee weapon he can use.
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And the spear does explode. You can see the reiatsu clash with the GT
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"Order of mangtitude above regular cero"
I hesitate to take the databooks seriously but even so regular ceros have nothing to do with your argument so its void.
As for LN, its been repeatedly established that the hype of destroying it does not match the actual feats and its policy to go by what actually happens over what was said to happen on this site.
I hesitate to take the databooks seriously but even so regular ceros have nothing to do with your argument so its void.
As for LN, its been repeatedly established that the hype of destroying it does not match the actual feats and its policy to go by what actually happens over what was said to happen on this site.
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"Order of mangtitude above other cero"
I hesitate to take the databooks seriously but regardless of that neither Cascada nor the lance are ceros so its moot to bring that image up.
As for LN, its been repeatedly established that its destruction was overhyped. On this site, it is policy to measure what actually happens as opposed to what was said would happen.
I hesitate to take the databooks seriously but regardless of that neither Cascada nor the lance are ceros so its moot to bring that image up.
As for LN, its been repeatedly established that its destruction was overhyped. On this site, it is policy to measure what actually happens as opposed to what was said would happen.
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"(Kyoraku and Ukitake's shunpo skills are superior to hers. However, she should nonetheless be able to match them in combat speeds)"
Getting back on-topic who the hell wrote this on Unohana's profile and why? I gaurantee in all 697 chapters neither Shunsui nor Jushiro scaled to Unohana.
Getting back on-topic who the hell wrote this on Unohana's profile and why? I gaurantee in all 697 chapters neither Shunsui nor Jushiro scaled to Unohana.
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Wouldn't Unohana actually be faster?
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"Should not be slower than the female knights. Zaraki was unable to keep up with her until powering up many times over."
Would be a more accurate explanation. Same end result SPD, but this takes into account a legit scaling (With the exception of a scale to the knights, but sadly I don't think there is one and they just seem to be considered low tier around here).
Would be a more accurate explanation. Same end result SPD, but this takes into account a legit scaling (With the exception of a scale to the knights, but sadly I don't think there is one and they just seem to be considered low tier around here).
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There is nothing in any chapter to indicate that Unohana is faster than Kyoraku or Ukitake, who are confirmed Shunpo masters. She may have comparable or greater reiatsu than them, but that doesn't mean she's faster. Look at pre-time-skip Sui-Feng and Zaraki. We know that Zaraki would rip Sui-Feng in two, but she is obviously just as fast or even faster. Soul Society arc Yoruichi is comparable to or weaker than Byakuya by her own admission, but she's faster despite being rusty.
