Bleach Abilities Additions (Most Characters)

[Arc7Kuroi]

Bleach characters don't regularly null powers through sheer spiritual energy.

That's a product of like 99.99% of character battles being between relative characters.

From a pure indexing standpoint, I can see why this would be desired to be added but at the same time it doesn't feel accurate to the characters for the most part.

Doesn't feel accurate is an argument from incredulity. Characters don't have to display their entire arsenal, if it's stated. There's simply not enough time for Kubo to display every single ability for every single character.

 

[Damage3245]

Doesn't feel accurate is an argument from incredulity.

I'm not arguing that it is impossible for them to do it under the right circumstances; but I just don't think it is worth adding to their profiles.

Characters don't have to display their entire arsenal, if it's stated.

Strictly speaking its not stated that everyone has the ability to negate other character's powers.

Aizen states Shinigami battles with spiritual energy.

Aizen states that he himself can negate Soi-Fon's attacks with his own spiritual energy.

It is being inferred that means that anyone can do what Aizen did if they faced someone monstrously weaker than themselves but it's not strictly speaking being stated directly that is the case.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I just don't think it is worth adding to their profiles.

That's still no reason not to add it.

Strictly speaking its not stated that everyone has the ability to negate other character's powers.

Aizen states Shinigami battles with spiritual energy.

Aizen states that he himself can negate Soi-Fon's attacks with his spiritual energy.

It is being inferred that means that anyone can do what Aizen did if they faced someone monstrously weaker than themselves but it's not strictly speaking being stated directly.

"Shinigami fights are battles of spirit energy. I'll suppress your own techniques and powers with my own spirit energy."

First sentence of the phrase. He opens by saying it's a fundamental mechanic of Soul Reaper battles. The reason he later uses personal pronouns like "I/my" is because HE is the one fighting at the moment. However, the sentence reads as follows because Shinigami fights are battles of spirit energy, Aizen is able to power null Soi Fon with his superior spirit energy. It very much so generalizes the statement. Aizen is explaining a fundamental battle mechanic for Shinigami combat.

Let me drop the CFYOW scan that supports my/deceived's interpretation.

"However, now that someone other than Aizen was using the blade, another weakness was involved. Tokinada's spiritual pressure was nowhere near Aizen's level, and because of that, it was possible for the shikai transformation itself to be sealed through incredibly strong spiritual pressure."

Here, because Tokinada's SP isn't far superior to everyone else's, he can have his KS power nulled by stronger characters. In fact this is exactly what Aura does, she uses her superior SP to prevent Tokinada from using KS.

And no, Aizen still prefaces the entire statement by saying it's a broad fundamental property of Shinigami battles.

It is hinted being common knowledge when Liltotto states that her and co's hax wouldn't work on the God Tiers of the verse.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Suppressing power should also be statistics reduction, add that to the proposal

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

He's not reducing character stats tho? It's only nulling the ability

 

[XXKINGXX69]

"Suppress your techniques and powers" Is that not also statistics reduction?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Powers = abilities in context, there's no AP, Dura, or Speed, etc reduction occuring

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Is this only going to apply to characters who use "spirit energy"? Because I'd half to disagree if you say a Bleach character can negate op Reality Warping/Plot Manipulation and such simply because their spirit energy is higher than the character who's using said abilities and the powers don't rely on "spirit energy" or a verse that doesn't have it in general.

Furthermore, the point of Aizen vs the Gotei 13 was to highlight how much they underestimated Aizen, as Gin points out. Soi Fon was more likely shocked that Aizen was this strong.

Can't they sense his spirit energy?

 

[Deceived3596]

Is this only going to apply to characters who use "spirit energy"?

Yes given it's a inherent mechanic behind Reiryoku vs Reiryoku based battles, so if your verse doesn't have "Spiritual-like energy" and such can't be equalized with Reiryoku within SBA then that mechanic wouldn't work.

 

[Loyd]

"Had Tokinada been Aizen, he might have been able to fulfill the conditions of having those around him see the shikai the moment it was invoked. However, now that someone other than Aizen was using the blade, another weakness was involved. Tokinada’s spiritual pressure was nowhere near Aizen’s level, and because of that, it was possible for the shikai transformation itself to be sealed through incredibly strong spiritual pressure.
Then again, there were very few who had spiritual pressure that exceeded Tokinada’s and who could also skillfully perform such a feat."

I haven't read book 3 yet but i just read some prior pages before the scan for more context and i don't think "also skillfully perform such a feat" is refering to the latter context

Tokinada was spamming countless separate Zanpakuto abilities, the reason it would require skill is because the person would have to get close enough to Tokinada to actually powernull his Zanpakuto.

was the advance forces intention prior to get close enough to powernull? it seems like the first instance of this happening was Aura doing so and this was when she turned on him, in fact he wasn't even aware which forced him to pull zangetsu, theres no mention of skilled required

Furthermore, Tokinada was 1 v everyone-ing the Kyogoku advance force, further supporting the fact that you'd have to be very skilled to even fight Tokinada (as he is extremely skilled himself).

Not really he was only subdued by ginjo at this point. Ginjo seemed confident he could body him with the real zangetsu and proficient swordsman tokinadas on profile

I don't think abilities get auto powernulled against opponents with higher SP or for Aizen's kyoka atleast relative or higher sp, theres definitely some skill involved to use you're comparable or higher SP to forcibly seal other abilities from working.

 

[Reio35]

Is this only going to apply to characters who use "spirit energy"? Because I'd half to disagree if you say a Bleach character can negate op Reality Warping/Plot Manipulation and such simply because their spirit energy is higher than the character who's using said abilities and the powers don't rely on "spirit energy" or a verse that doesn't have it in general.

Can't they sense his spirit energy?

Well it's been shown to negate causality manipulation and space-time manipulation.

"藍染は、己の力が理さえ凌駕することを誇示するため、時間と空間を司る"拘突"を容赦なく破壊する。

To demonstrate that his power surpasses even reason, Aizen mercilessly destroys the "Kōtotsu" that governs space-time."

^^^^from bleach databook unmasked aizen spirit energy was strong enough to nullify the kotosu's space-time manipulation and the kotosu isn't spiritual.

"死神から神の域へ移行しつつある藍染には、どんな攻撃も受けない。
最早、挑むこと自体が既に“身分違い"----

「崩玉」の犠牲になった仮面の軍勢 (ヴァイザード)を破面 (アランカル)もどき”と言い捨てる。「崩玉」の牲になった仮面の軍勢 (ヴァイザード)を破面 (アランカル)もどき”と言い捨てる。
己の目的達成には、弱き者が駒となるのは当然と考える、その冷淡さ。

幼い刻から強く、敗北を知らなかった藍染。初めて他者が己を超えた瞬間が訪れても、すぐには理解すらできず。

誰よりも強かった藍染は、誰にも理解されることが無い孤独の世界を抱えていた。強き者故の孤独は深く、哀しい。

Aizen, having moved from the realm of the Shinigami to that of a God, is immune to attacks.
To even attack is already deemed as a "mistake"--

He dismisses the Vizords who fell victim to the "Hogyouku" as "Arrancar-like".
Such is Aizen's callousness that he deems it natural for the weak to be used as pawns to achieve his goal.

Aizen has been strong since his childhood and had thus never known defeat. Even when the moment came when someone surpassed him for the first time, he couldn't even understand it right away.

Aizen, who was stronger than anyone else, had a world of loneliness that no one could understand. The loneliness of the strong is deep and sorrowful."

Aizen is immune to all kido because his spirit energy.



Ichigo also overpower yukio's dimension ability which allows the user control everything including space,time,gravity,life and death. Yukios doesn't spirit energy to fight. He manipulates the materials world by controlling the soul in objects.

In bleach spirit energy governs everything even the material world,reality ect and it's been shown to negate almost every type of hax. From causality to space-time.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Is this considered standard for them. Because Azien shouldn't have have needed to explain this to her if this was a common thing they all could achieve. Everyone would know who there abilities should and shouldn't effect no?

To be Fair Bleach has a habit of explaining things that the characters should be aware of.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

To be Fair Bleach has a habit of explaining things that the characters should be aware of.

So their all idiots

Yes given it's a inherent mechanic behind Reiryoku vs Reiryoku based battles, so if your verse doesn't have "Spiritual-like energy" and such can't be equalized with Reiryoku within SBA then that mechanic wouldn't work.

Well it's been shown to negate causality manipulation and space-time manipulation.

"藍染は、己の力が理さえ凌駕することを誇示するため、時間と空間を司る"拘突"を容赦なく破壊する。

To demonstrate that his power surpasses even reason, Aizen mercilessly destroys the "Kōtotsu" that governs space-time."

^^^^from bleach databook unmasked aizen spirit energy was strong enough to nullify the kotosu's space-time manipulation and the kotosu isn't spiritual.

"死神から神の域へ移行しつつある藍染には、どんな攻撃も受けない。
最早、挑むこと自体が既に“身分違い"----

「崩玉」の犠牲になった仮面の軍勢 (ヴァイザード)を破面 (アランカル)もどき”と言い捨てる。「崩玉」の牲になった仮面の軍勢 (ヴァイザード)を破面 (アランカル)もどき”と言い捨てる。
己の目的達成には、弱き者が駒となるのは当然と考える、その冷淡さ。

幼い刻から強く、敗北を知らなかった藍染。初めて他者が己を超えた瞬間が訪れても、すぐには理解すらできず。

誰よりも強かった藍染は、誰にも理解されることが無い孤独の世界を抱えていた。強き者故の孤独は深く、哀しい。

Aizen, having moved from the realm of the Shinigami to that of a God, is immune to attacks.
To even attack is already deemed as a "mistake"--

He dismisses the Vizords who fell victim to the "Hogyouku" as "Arrancar-like".
Such is Aizen's callousness that he deems it natural for the weak to be used as pawns to achieve his goal.

Aizen has been strong since his childhood and had thus never known defeat. Even when the moment came when someone surpassed him for the first time, he couldn't even understand it right away.

Aizen, who was stronger than anyone else, had a world of loneliness that no one could understand. The loneliness of the strong is deep and sorrowful."

Aizen is immune to all kido because his spirit energy.



Ichigo also overpower yukio's dimension ability which allows the user control everything including space,time,gravity,life and death. Yukios doesn't spirit energy to fight. He manipulates the materials world by controlling the soul in objects.

In bleach spirit energy governs everything even the material world,reality ect and it's been shown to negate almost every type of hax. From causality to space-time.

Now you guys (Deceived and Reio35) just gave me two different responses.

1. It's based off the level of spirit energy and thus is limited and can only nullify the powers used against them by people with weaker spirit energy. Thus they cannot negate non spirit energy based characters attack.

Or

2. It doesn't matter about if the opposing characters even have spirit energy and they can simply negate nearly all hax against them so long as they have more spirit energy than the opposing side (even if the opposing side doesn't have spirit energy)

If you apply the second option. That basically means any Bleach character this applies to can negate the the hax of all characters from any verse who don't use spirit energy because by default they'll have mfar more spirit energy that their opponent. Also, what's the percentage of spirit energy difference? How on earth are we going to determine the level of spirit energy difference between characters? There is no number in Bleach, so you can't tell how much spirit energy another character from a different verse and thus it would be impossible to know if they can negate the powers of other characters...


And you can't use the AP argument because of the below statement...

It isn't since Reiatsu isn't accepted as AP on the Wiki nor is Reiatsu AP.

Besides even if it was it would still be accepted as a form of Power-Null through having more AP then your opponent.

But then this the suggestion in the OP...

"So the actual text that would be on the profiles would be something like "Limited Power Nullification (Reiryoku can null the abilities and technique's of those massively weaker then [Character's Name]"or something of this effect."

I thought it wasn't about the characters strength... seriously, I'm just going to remain neutral since it seems there isn't a conclusion on how this is actually going to be applied mechanic wise.

 

[Deceived3596]

So their all idiots



Now you guys (Deceived and Reio35) just gave me two different responses.

1. It's based off the level of spirit energy and thus is limited and can only nullify the powers used against them by people with weaker spirit energy. Thus they cannot negate non spirit energy based characters attack.

Or

2. It doesn't matter about if the opposing characters even have spirit energy and they can simply negate nearly all hax against them so long as they have more spirit energy than the opposing side (even if the opposing side doesn't have spirit energy)

If you apply the second option. That basically means any Bleach character this applies to can negate the the hax of all characters from any verse who don't use spirit energy because by default they'll have mfar more spirit energy that their opponent. Also, what's the percentage of spirit energy difference? How on earth are we going to determine the level of spirit energy difference between characters? There is no number in Bleach, so you can't tell how much spirit energy another character from a different verse and thus it would be impossible to know if they can negate the powers of other characters...


And you can't use the AP argument because of the below statement...


But then this the suggestion in the OP...

"So the actual text that would be on the profiles would be something like "Limited Power Nullification (Reiryoku can null the abilities and technique's of those massively weaker then [Character's Name]"or something of this effect."

I thought it wasn't about the characters strength... seriously, I'm just going to remain neutral since it seems there isn't a conclusion on how this is actually going to be applied mechanic wise.

First: Thanks for responding.

Second: I'll respond to your questions in a couple hours, have to go out with my family to eat and play Pool.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So their all idiots

they're*

 

[LordGriffin1000]

First: Thanks for responding.

Second: I'll respond to your questions in a couple hours, have to go out with my family to eat and play Pool.

No problem. Take your time.

 

[Loyd]

1. It's based off the level of spirit energy and thus is limited and can only nullify the powers used against them by people with weaker spirit energy. Thus they cannot negate non spirit energy based characters attack.

This would apply to everyone in the bleach verse.

2. It doesn't matter about if the opposing characters even have spirit energy and they can simply negate nearly all hax against them so long as they have more spirit energy than the opposing side (even if the opposing side doesn't have spirit energy)

the scan reio bought up is the exception to Aizen and ichigo cause there transcendant(yhwach aswell?) where they can affect things that were immune or different to spirit energy the kotosu.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

This would apply to everyone in the bleach verse.

the scan reio bought up is the exception to Aizen and ichigo cause there transcendant(yhwach aswell?) where they can affect things that were immune or different to spirit energy the kotosu.

I see, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I see, thanks for clearing that up.

Does this mean you're in support of the OP?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Does this mean you're in support of the OP?

I guess it's fine. I don't really have any arguments against it since my confusion on the mechanics have been cleared up.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

To be Fair Bleach has a habit of explaining things that the characters should be aware of.

Is this an agreement with the OP?

 

[Deceived3596]

@LordGriffin1000

Sorry for not being able to respond to you in a timely manner, I've had a terrible day yesterday to the point of barely wanting to exist much less wanting to debate. but since Loyd basically said what i was going to say and since you've agreed with the OP i'll add your name to the support section.

Thank you for commenting/agreeing with the Post.

 

[Damage3245]

I guess my main objection is this:

Strictly speaking its not stated that everyone has the ability to negate other character's powers.

Aizen states Shinigami battles with spiritual energy.

Aizen states that he can negate Soi-Fon's attacks with his own spiritual energy.

It is being inferred that means that anyone can do what Aizen did if they faced someone monstrously weaker than themselves but it's not strictly speaking being stated directly that is the case.

If the majority of staff thinks that adding Limited Power Nullification for those characters who face spiritual energy far weaker than themselves is fine, then it's fine, but I don't think it is as explicit as what is being presented.

 

[Deceived3596]

I guess my main objection is this:



If the majority of staff thinks that adding Limited Power Nullification for those characters who face spiritual energy far weaker than themselves is fine, then it's fine, but I don't think it is as explicit as what is being presented.

Thanks for coming to the light-side Damage

Since I've got 4 Mod's approval i'm going to start adding these additions, Should i start with the pages that aren't locked first or start with the ones that're locked to just get them over with?

 

[Damage3245]

Thanks for coming to the light-side Damage

Since I've got 4 Mod's approval i'm going to start adding these additions, Should i start with the pages that aren't locked first or start with the ones that're locked to just get them over with?

Err, I'm still in the disagree side. I'm just saying that if the majority have voted for it, then the majority have voted for it.

Also Shadowbokunohero hasn't clarified his position.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Is this an agreement with the OP?

yes. I'm fine with limited powernull as long as it's clarified to be between people that have large gaps in power.

 

[Deceived3596]

Well... Shadow has given his approval. i'm going to start doing the additions.

 

[Damage3245]

Okay. Now you can go ahead and apply it.

 

[Damage3245]

Well... Shadow has given his approval. i'm going to start doing the additions.

Don't forgot to add in the category as well.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I'm super late to this. I think I'm neutral on this, leaning towards agreeing, but I'm not very well acquainted with Bleach I'm afraid.
What I am sure of is that the ability's weaknesses need to be well-defined and clearly pointed out on the profiles, because this is definitely something I can see getting abused in VS matches otherwise.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Idk if you’ve already started applying D, but I’d recommend wording as follows

Limited Power Nullification (Spirit energy can null the abilities and technique's of those with vastly inferior spirit energy to themselves)

Maybe link the Aizen scan to explanation too, then you can just copy paste that to the relevant profiles rather than type out their name each time.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Maybe Bleach should take after one piece and make a “spirit energy/pressure” page and list everything that can be done with it and split it into proficient in novice users like OP does with Haki

 

[Damage3245]

Maybe Bleach should take after one piece and make a “spirit energy/pressure” page and list everything that can be done with it and split it into proficient in novice users like OP does with Haki

Not a bad idea.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Maybe I can get around to it this summer hopefully

 

[Deceived3596]

These profiles need to be opened for me to apply the additions.

Soul King

Yhwach

Zangetsu

Hyōsube Ichibē

Nimaiya Ōetsu

Kirinji Tenjirō

Shutara Senjumaru

 

[Deceived3596]

Bump

 

[speedster352]

I agree so far

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

These profiles need to be opened for me to apply the additions.

Soul King

Yhwach

Zangetsu

Hyōsube Ichibē

Nimaiya Ōetsu

Kirinji Tenjirō

Shutara Senjumaru

done

 

[Deceived3596]

done

The additions have been added so this thread can be closed.

Thanks for unlocking the profiles.

 

[Confluctor]

whoever edited the files forgot to link this CRT to it.

Soul King

The Soul King (霊れい王おう, Reiō?) is the king of Soul Society, whose existence in Soul Society is as symbolic as it is absolute. The king resides in the Soul King Palace that exists in a separate, special realm in the very core of Soul Society, which is protected by the Royal Guard. The door to this...

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