Black Clover: Lily Revisions

[Epsilon_R]

It's about time we fix this damn profile (that shouldn't have been created at that time tbh)

AP​

Lily's AP justification is "Sliced Black Asta's chest", the thing is:
1. It wasn't Black Asta, it was PDU
2. Lucius did the slicing, not Lily
3. Lily never harmed Asta in anyway whatsoever, not even a mere scratch.

So her rating shouldn't scale to Asta in any way. However, we know that Beelzebub's soul was incarnated within her. We also know that the soul in Black Clover is the source of their Magic (Charlotte even states it's the quality of one's magic itself).

Therefore, I suggest we downgrade her AP to that of Beelzebub's.

Beelzebub doesn't have a profile, but due to being one of the 3 rulers of the last level of the Underworld (the lower the level, the stronger the Devil), he should be at least. comparable to a fully Manifested Megicula (who technically has the same rank as him), and more likely even stronger than her as she only got this spot due to Astaroth's departure.

Tl;dr: Her AP change is 3.564 Exatons 》1.782 Exatons

This change also affects Kezokaku who was supposed to scale to Lily but ended up scaling to 594.1 Petatons because of the scaling issues. Ichika may be affected as well but it's up for debate.

Speed​

Same thing, she didn't blitz Asta, it was Lucius (And honestly I wouldn't call that specific instance a blitz as Asta was mentally shocked by the situation), she in fact cannot tag Asta with Spatial Magic and only the first of her flash spells actually got him, which can most likely be interpreted as Asta not expecting it rather than it being too fast.

I don't think her value should change but her justification definitely needs adjustments.

Lifting Strength​

Make it Unknown, she has literally no reason to scale to Asta.

Striking Strength​

Again, Unknown. She doesn't even strike her opponent in the first place.

Durability​

Should be comparable to her AP, not her SS.

 

[Testarossa002]

I dunno what happened before but it's all Arnold's fault
One way or the other

 

[Arnoldstone18]

And honestly I wouldn't call that specific instance a blitz as Asta was mentally shocked by the situation

It was a blitz still. Lucius was standing directly behind Lily. Asta had to have seen him coming straight at him directly cuz it wasn’t even a sneak attack, it was as tho went to stand directly in front of him and attack him.

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I agree with the CRT overall

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I dunno what happened before but it's all Arnold's fault
One way or the other

WHAT?????!?

 

[Xinsignia1]

Wouldn’t Lily scale above Beezlebub though? Because iirc, it was stated purification grants them power that surpasses that of devils, they even used Lily's image as an example. Not to mention, it was also stated that Damnatio was stronger than a Supreme devil. So why wouldn't she scale above Beezlebub in that regard?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Agree with the thread, except for the speed part, I'd still consider Lucius's move here a blitz tbh

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Wouldn’t Lily scale above Beezlebub though? Because it was stated purification grants them power that surpasses that of devils. Not to mention, it was also stated that Damnatio waa stronger than a Supreme devil.

Yes she scales above him.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yeah as Arnold and Xinsignia1 were saying, Paladins would scale above the devils they host due to having purified versions of their power

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Should the Paladins scale above Lucifero, since they’re above the rank of supreme devil?

When Nacht described Damnatio, it seems like he used a general statement rather than directly describing Damnatio.

“Our opponent is stronger than a supreme Devil” seems to be directed towards the fact that he’s a Paladin and not specifically Damnatio.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Agree with the thread, except for the speed part, I'd still consider Lucius's move here a blitz tbh

Yall, it doesn't matter.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Should the Paladins scale above Lucifero, since they’re above the rank of supreme devil?

When Nacht described Damnatio, it seems like he used a general statement rather than directly describing Damnatio.

“Our opponent is stronger than a supreme Devil” seems to be directed towards the fact that he’s a Paladin and not specifically Damnatio.

I'm not too sure on this, especially since Damnatio later says that he's among the strongest of the Paladins

 

[Epsilon_R]

Should the Paladins scale above Lucifero, since they’re above the rank of supreme devil?

When Nacht described Damnatio, it seems like he used a general statement rather than directly describing Damnatio.

“Our opponent is stronger than a supreme Devil” seems to be directed towards the fact that he’s a Paladin and not specifically Damnatio.

To be honest, your best bet would be this and I'm not sure about that

 

[Excellence616]

I agree with Clover

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I'm not too sure on this, especially since Damnatio later says that he's among the strongest of the Paladins

I see that point yes.

But keep in mind Nacht says what he says during the planning phase not on the battlefield. They were already aware that a Paladin was coming, even long enough for Zora to set a trap to absorb the attack from the Angel.

So it’s possible what he said was based on info he received on Paladins rather than sensing Damnatio.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

To be honest, your best bet would be this and I'm not sure about that

This must be the said info that Nacht is aware of. So it’s supporting evidence. I even forgot about that.

 

[Xinsignia1]

Should the Paladins scale above Lucifero, since they’re above the rank of supreme devil?

When Nacht described Damnatio, it seems like he used a general statement rather than directly describing Damnatio.

“Our opponent is stronger than a supreme Devil” seems to be directed towards the fact that he’s a Paladin and not specifically Damnatio.

I've been wondering about this and think you made a great point. I think it's been highly suggested that all paladins scale above Luci via purification however, the boost to Lucifero's magical power from purification should be stronger than any of the paladins, since he initially had the most magical power of the supreme devils.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I've been wondering about this and think you made a great point. I think it's been highly suggested that all paladins scale above Luci via purification however, the boost to Lucifero's magical power from purification should be stronger than any of the paladins, since he initially had the most magical power of the supreme devils.

Fair point.

I have also spoken with @Armorchompy and he leans towards Paladins > Supreme Devils except Lucifero. @CloverDragon03 is also in agreement of that too.

So it’s fine for Paladins scaling off 1.782 Exatons.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Bump

 

[Epsilon_R]

Bump

Scaling Base Ichika to 1.782 Exatons means her Zetten (In base) becomes at most 35.64 Exatons (5-C).

And since we upscale her DCBM spell above her base Zetten, she would upscale from the aforementioned value, with her Zetten scaling to 712.8 Exatons (Low 5-B).

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Contact DarkDragonMedeus pls

 

[CloverDragon03]

@DarkDragonMedeus What do you think about this?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Clover makes sense to me above.

 

[Epsilon_R]

It's unanimous + got a staff member approval (2 with armor)

I assume it's fine if I make the changes?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Should be fine, yes