Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,086
- 5,175
Who would going to win?
The Fallen Child or the Dream Demon?
The Fallen Child or the Dream Demon?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Bill Cipher (Gravity Falls) vs Chara (Undertale)
- Thread starter Stefano4444
- Start date
-
- Tags
- bill cipher chara
- Status
- 616
- 8
Bill easily due to hax and AP.
- 594
- 17
ap's the same but bill has far more speed
- 616
- 8
Bill is likely multiverse+ and their speed is the same.
- 616
- 8
What does loading and saving do
- 226
- 19
Nothing, according to our rules on this wiki.
It basically gives them infinite retries, each time with the knowledge of their previous attempts.
They start a new timeline and the old one just ends.
I don't know which of these two is stronger, but I would vote Chara on account of deleting the entire space-time continuum of Undertale at the end of a Genocide run with a kitchen knife.
It basically gives them infinite retries, each time with the knowledge of their previous attempts.
They start a new timeline and the old one just ends.
I don't know which of these two is stronger, but I would vote Chara on account of deleting the entire space-time continuum of Undertale at the end of a Genocide run with a kitchen knife.
- 616
- 8
Well Bill was going to destroy the fabric of existance so i think that could stop saving and reloading.Also Bill has time manipulation and is likely 4-Dimensional so my vote goes for Bill
- 15,606
- 7,019
I don't think Bill could get rid of Chara permanently, but he could very very likely put Chara down at least once, which is all that would be needed in this case.
- 616
- 8
I thought he could since they can't create another timeline if all of existance is destroyed.
- 15,606
- 7,019
They don't need anything in order to create another timeline. They did so in an empty void after the end of the genocide run.
- 616
- 8
Then what could permanantly destroy Chara forever?
- 15,407
- 5,717
I don't see Chara taking it, the dude/girl only wrecks one per time, Bill wreck all of them, and there is apparently an infinite number of them.
- 15,606
- 7,019
Probably something that could erase them on a conceptual level, which to be fair, is rather hard.
- 11,582
- 548
So for even someone like Bill here, it would be hard for him to permanently kill Chara here right?Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
- 783
- 132
You'd need like Tier 1 level character probably to be able to erase Chara for good, even if many tier 2 characters can put him down once.
- 15,606
- 7,019
Yes, as they exist as a concept within multiple people. However, since Chara is not Flowey and doesn't use save scumming as part of their arsenal, Bill should be considered the victor if he manages to defeat Chara, once.CrossverseCrisis said:
- 11,582
- 548
I guess that makes sense. In battles like, it doesn't matter if your someone like Frisk/Chara/or even Flowey who can come back again from death. If they lose a battle here just even once, they technically lose here.
If anything, i'd also give my vote to Bill here based on what we know of him and powers from the show.
If anything, i'd also give my vote to Bill here based on what we know of him and powers from the show.
- 2,870
- 73
Bill wins
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,086
- 5,175
- Thread starter
- #20
For what i understand, Bill wasn't going to destroy the fabric of existance with his own raw power, but via chair reaction (by enlarge the rip between his home dimension and the universe), at least in my opinion.Hyperception said:
And pretty sure that time manipulation would going to be pretty ineffective again someone like Chara.
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,086
- 5,175
- Thread starter
- #21
Anyway, in the case that Bill is actually multiversal.
Chara + Human Souls would be instead capable to match Bill?
Chara + Human Souls would be instead capable to match Bill?
- 226
- 19
Chara does not absorb the human souls.
They run on the player's human soul and their determination.
In the Genocide run, Asgore absorbed the six human souls, got OHKO'd, shot in the back by Flowey, and then died. Then Chara brutally murdered Flowey.
They achieved multiversal destruction WITHOUT any buffs.
The Post-Genocide Pacifist ending has them running around with your soul on the surface, free to kill anyone they want.
They run on the player's human soul and their determination.
In the Genocide run, Asgore absorbed the six human souls, got OHKO'd, shot in the back by Flowey, and then died. Then Chara brutally murdered Flowey.
They achieved multiversal destruction WITHOUT any buffs.
The Post-Genocide Pacifist ending has them running around with your soul on the surface, free to kill anyone they want.
- 594
- 17
where'd it say asgore had absorbed the souls in genocide?Angry Dummy said:
- 227
- 3
Only the existence of Bill warps completely the Time. Bill has said he has Infinity Power, besides, Bill have invulnerability of warps in reality and space-time.
I don't see Chara win this.
I don't see Chara win this.
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,086
- 5,175
- Thread starter
- #25
So what you try to said, is that if Chara absorb the souls, he/she wouldn't become more stronger? That can work only with Frisk?Angry Dummy said:
Anyway, just in the possibility that Chara can absorb the SOULS an actually increase his power.
She/he could possible match or even defeat Bill Cipher?
- 226
- 19
Chara absolutely cannot absorb souls like a monster could.
Chara is Low 2-C, and there's no way that's changing.
If Bill can survive the annihilation of his entire show, leaving nothing but dead-air on the TV whenever Gravity Falls is supposed to be on, then he wins.
If he can't, then too bad for him. The winner will be the kid with the melty face and the knife.
Chara is Low 2-C, and there's no way that's changing.
If Bill can survive the annihilation of his entire show, leaving nothing but dead-air on the TV whenever Gravity Falls is supposed to be on, then he wins.
If he can't, then too bad for him. The winner will be the kid with the melty face and the knife.
- 15,606
- 7,019
He didn't. Flowey was trying to warn him about you and convince him to do so before you kill him.HIT IT said:
- 15,606
- 7,019
I doubt they were lying. Probably just mistaken, as Undyne says that Asgore likely already absorbed the souls by the time you defeat her, though this turns out to be wrong.HIT IT said:
- 226
- 19
HIT IT said:
I heard Undyne say that Asgore was given the command to absorb the souls when she died, so I assumed that Asgore had them on his person at the time and merely didn't go One-Winged Angel like Flowey did.
Pacifist ending Flowey didn't undergo any transformations until after absorbing the souls of the entire underground and becoming Asriel, so it seemed fairly logical to me.
I apologize.
Regardless, Chara has the power to take Gravity Falls off the air permanently and bring it back if they wanted.
I want to see anyone survive that.
- 1
- 1
Chara, hands down.
Because one obvious thing about Bill is overlooked: he's an Other Dimentional Being--- by Silver Age rules. As in the "2nd Dimention" is a --parallel dimention,-- not as, for example, the concept of Time as a differnt 'direction', the fourth, in the fabric of reality.
Read "Flatland" to see what a lesser-dimentional being interacting with a higher-dimentional being would look like. tl;dr, the main character is a square in the 2nd dimention--- exactly as y'all been misinterperting Bill. And he meets a sphere (a 3D being) that passes through his: what he sees is at first a dot that expands into a ring and collapses back into a dot as Sphere passes through. Sphere further proves what he is by moving Square to another point in Flatland without any intervening space (ie; not even a Portal warp, but just "you were over there, now you are here, as easy as moving your feet.
Bill is not that. Bill can be trapped, can be fooled, and he's not omnipresent-- something that be very hard to do to some being that exists, as, say, a 4D being would; simeltaneously through all parts of it's own worldline. Case in point: he should have known about that barrier keeping Wierdmageddon in, and his Death By Memory, before the show even premiered. Like if you were a biblical literalist, and thought Revelations is basically the script for the future, and you tried to kill Yaweh to stop it: that'd be fighting a 4D being.
Bill still exists as we do: only one point in the space-time continum. At best, Bill is just a less moral (and if anything, a weaker version of) Mr Mxyzptlk.
Chara, however.... what Chara is, at best can only be described as the very idea of "Kill or be Killed." And it's really hard to kill an idea. He's that feeling every time you strike down a monster in a game, and see those numbers go up. Or in the real world, when a hunter or predator brings down their prey. As long as there is life, there will be death. And as long as there is death: There will be he who comes when it's name is called.
To top it all off, let's see how each is defeated in-universe:
Bill: Tricked into the wrong brain by a clothes change, and can be killed by erasing the ONE mind he's stuck in, cries like a little bitch. Then FALCON PAUNCH!ed to death. Satima wins.
Chara: you don't. The only winning move is not to play (like a genocidal jackass).
The game's universe-- the Steam files on your computer, and the saves uploaded to Valve's cloud-- it's god is TobyFox. And remember it's heavily based/inspired by Earthbound (and may even be a unofficial sequel, A GAME THEORY~!). How's Gygias killed? He's so beyond comprehension, beyond what Bill could do, affecting multiple points in time, reality warping by his presence. Bill contained by the natural wierdness magnetism of Gravity Falls, while Gygias by a deliberatley made Demon Machine (which reminds me of Moloch from "Metropolis" and the Mamon machine from Chrono Trigger, which itself is based on that passage of "You cannot serve both God and Mamon")-- that Ness and the other characters have to call on a being that's on another plane of reality, so beyond their comprehension: you, the player. Compared to them, bits of binary and code, we humans who can program theri worlds into existance, and delete them at will, are gods. But once you meet Chara in Undertale, you give in and 'give him your soul'--- and your game is permanently corrupted, even through resets, that any attempts at the Pacifist ending ends with him escaping into the Overworld. Forever. Great job, idiot: you let loose Death upon the world. What you CAN do is deny the other gods, the Pantheon of Steam, disconnect from the cloud servers, and edit your .ini files to get rid of Chara's win flags--- be a god unto the game's world and edit him off of you. The kind of comlete power that Gaster fell vicitim to, unmaking his existance in near-perfect totality. That's what it takes to roll back--- not kill-- Chara.
So, some plucky kids and tricky old guys, Bill goes down like a cheerleader on Prom night.
Chara: eternally lives in the hearts of Man.
So the winner is: CHARA.
Because one obvious thing about Bill is overlooked: he's an Other Dimentional Being--- by Silver Age rules. As in the "2nd Dimention" is a --parallel dimention,-- not as, for example, the concept of Time as a differnt 'direction', the fourth, in the fabric of reality.
Read "Flatland" to see what a lesser-dimentional being interacting with a higher-dimentional being would look like. tl;dr, the main character is a square in the 2nd dimention--- exactly as y'all been misinterperting Bill. And he meets a sphere (a 3D being) that passes through his: what he sees is at first a dot that expands into a ring and collapses back into a dot as Sphere passes through. Sphere further proves what he is by moving Square to another point in Flatland without any intervening space (ie; not even a Portal warp, but just "you were over there, now you are here, as easy as moving your feet.
Bill is not that. Bill can be trapped, can be fooled, and he's not omnipresent-- something that be very hard to do to some being that exists, as, say, a 4D being would; simeltaneously through all parts of it's own worldline. Case in point: he should have known about that barrier keeping Wierdmageddon in, and his Death By Memory, before the show even premiered. Like if you were a biblical literalist, and thought Revelations is basically the script for the future, and you tried to kill Yaweh to stop it: that'd be fighting a 4D being.
Bill still exists as we do: only one point in the space-time continum. At best, Bill is just a less moral (and if anything, a weaker version of) Mr Mxyzptlk.
Chara, however.... what Chara is, at best can only be described as the very idea of "Kill or be Killed." And it's really hard to kill an idea. He's that feeling every time you strike down a monster in a game, and see those numbers go up. Or in the real world, when a hunter or predator brings down their prey. As long as there is life, there will be death. And as long as there is death: There will be he who comes when it's name is called.
To top it all off, let's see how each is defeated in-universe:
Bill: Tricked into the wrong brain by a clothes change, and can be killed by erasing the ONE mind he's stuck in, cries like a little bitch. Then FALCON PAUNCH!ed to death. Satima wins.
Chara: you don't. The only winning move is not to play (like a genocidal jackass).
The game's universe-- the Steam files on your computer, and the saves uploaded to Valve's cloud-- it's god is TobyFox. And remember it's heavily based/inspired by Earthbound (and may even be a unofficial sequel, A GAME THEORY~!). How's Gygias killed? He's so beyond comprehension, beyond what Bill could do, affecting multiple points in time, reality warping by his presence. Bill contained by the natural wierdness magnetism of Gravity Falls, while Gygias by a deliberatley made Demon Machine (which reminds me of Moloch from "Metropolis" and the Mamon machine from Chrono Trigger, which itself is based on that passage of "You cannot serve both God and Mamon")-- that Ness and the other characters have to call on a being that's on another plane of reality, so beyond their comprehension: you, the player. Compared to them, bits of binary and code, we humans who can program theri worlds into existance, and delete them at will, are gods. But once you meet Chara in Undertale, you give in and 'give him your soul'--- and your game is permanently corrupted, even through resets, that any attempts at the Pacifist ending ends with him escaping into the Overworld. Forever. Great job, idiot: you let loose Death upon the world. What you CAN do is deny the other gods, the Pantheon of Steam, disconnect from the cloud servers, and edit your .ini files to get rid of Chara's win flags--- be a god unto the game's world and edit him off of you. The kind of comlete power that Gaster fell vicitim to, unmaking his existance in near-perfect totality. That's what it takes to roll back--- not kill-- Chara.
So, some plucky kids and tricky old guys, Bill goes down like a cheerleader on Prom night.
Chara: eternally lives in the hearts of Man.
So the winner is: CHARA.
- Status
Similar threads
