Ben 10: Update, Fixing and Additions part 9

[Antvasima]

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Thank you for your reply. That is perfectly fine for me.

 

[Reiner04]

Not enough evidence for Conceptual Manipulation Type 1. Maybe Type 3 with the name thing. I've always been iffy with the Immortality thing, and I disagree with it.

Since the thread is unlocked, and I am back I'll ask if u sure about names being even "Type 3". Name of legerdomain has been changed like thousands of times but it never had any effect on legerdomain. To add on, there is no evidence that manipulation of names leads to named thing being manipulated too. Names are just ways to "control" the named. It works more as control rather than smth which is essence of the object.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Since the thread is unlocked, and I am back I'll ask if u sure about names being even "Type 3". Name of legerdomain has been changed like thousands of times but it never had any effect on legerdomain.

CM Type 3 don't come from this, it come from can control over names of things, which means control over things, as names Its nature has not been clarified, it controls other concepts, it is Type 3

3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon. Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.

To add on, there is no evidence that manipulation of names leads to named thing being manipulated too. Names are just ways to "control" the named. It works more as control rather than smth which is essence of the object.

Dude, It has literally been mentioned that names confer the ability to control "over" things, and this still proves that CM. Control over=Manipulating. If you control name, meaning you have power to control over named.

 

[Reiner04]

CM Type 3 don't come from this, it come from can control over names of things, which means control over things, as names Its nature has not been clarified, it controls other concepts, it is Type 3


Dude, It has literally been mentioned that names confer the ability to control "over" things, and this still proves that CM. Control over=Manipulating. If you control name, meaning you have power to control over named.

Manipulating things is not in least a trait of concept tho. For smth to be concept it must be able to change/alter the objects when the concept itself is altered. If someone can control air doesn't mean he became a concept of air. Simple as that.

Each concept is linked with its respective "object". In this way, altering the concept will change every object linked to it in the same way the concept itself was changed.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Manipulating things is not in least a trait of concept tho. For smth to be concept it must be able to change/alter the objects when the concept itself is altered. If someone can control air doesn't mean he became a concept of air. Simple as that.

Yh so? As I explained, if the names of things was changed, this can caused a change in things, for example: the nature of door of Ledgerdomain is being open to any dimension, but after his name was changed, the door was closed and there no way to travel to Legerdomain.

 

[Reiner04]

Yh so? As I explained, if the names of things was changed, this can caused a change in things, for example: the nature of door of Ledgerdomain is being open to any dimension, but after his name was changed, the door was closed and there no way to travel to Legerdomain.

Lol. I have watched the series. Door to anywhere is a cross road to all dimensions. It's not just a "door of legerdomain". U only have to spell the true name of the dimension and it will take u there. It's just lock and key relation. Charmcaster was changing the name of her dimension every second so that no one could open the door to her dimension using "door to anywhere". It has nothing to do with concept and shit.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Lol. I have watched the series.

So?

Door to anywhere is a cross road to all dimensions. It's not just a "door of legerdomain".

XD, this is not what I mean in words, lol

U only have to spell the true name of the dimension and it will take u there. It's just lock and key relation. Charmcaster was changing the name of her dimension every second so that no one could open the door to her dimension using "door to anywhere". It has nothing to do with concept and shit.

Yes, but the door was takes you to anywhere but after Charmcaster changed the name of door, the door was close and you cannot use it. It is as she change the nature of the door on that it is open and takes you anywhere to being close and you cannot use it, so she can control over things on a more specific scale but not on a concept

3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon. Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.

 

[Reiner04]

Yes, but the door was takes you to anywhere but after Charmcaster changed the name of door, the door was close and you cannot use it. It is as she change the nature of the door on that it is open and takes you anywhere to being close and you cannot use it, so she can control over things on a more specific scale but not on a concept

She was changing the name of her dimension every sec so door to anywhere cannot take anyone to her dimension. She didn't change the name of door. What r u talking about?

 

[Reiner04]

For it to be concept u have to show that names act like concepts or have been called concept in the show. Not that names can give one control over named thing. But alteration of names itself should cause the alteration of named thing. Only charmcaster in the entire series was able to change the name of something (her own dimension), but it didn't had any effect on legerdomain. We never had any showcase of Alpha rune or names acting as concept.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

She was changing the name of her dimension every sec so door to anywhere cannot take anyone to her dimension. She didn't change the name of door. What r u talking about?

No, she changing the name of door not Legerdomain (This was in another episode not in Couples Retreat episode) she can change the name of door, so the door can be closed and opened anytime she changed it's name.

For it to be concept u have to show that names act like concepts or have been called concept in the show. Not that names can give one control over named thing, but alteration of names itself should cause the alteration of named thing.

I've explained this at the top

Only charmcaster in the entire series was able to change the name of something (her own dimension), but it didn't had any effect on legerdomain.

This is because of the main ability of Magic that gives it the ability to change names, even Gwen was able to use names, as magic is power to manipulate names.

We never had any showcase of Alpha rune or names acting as concept.

We has, as Alpha Rune is embodies the true name of magic/mana and is source of all essences in Universe. Also as you say "Charmcaster was changing the name of her dimension every second"

Lol. I have watched the series. Door to anywhere is a cross road to all dimensions. It's not just a "door of legerdomain". U only have to spell the true name of the dimension and it will take u there. It's just lock and key relation. Charmcaster was changing the name of her dimension every second so that no one could open the door to her dimension using "door to anywhere". It has nothing to do with concept and shit.

We know this via magic, and we (except you) knew that this was causing a change in the legerdomain as we saw when Ben noticed that the legerdomain was changed and it turned out that this was due to magic.

 

[Reiner04]

No, she changing the name of door not Legerdomain (This was in another episode not in Couples Retreat episode) she can change the name of door, so the door can be closed and opened anytime she changed it's name.

Nope, that's not the context. The Gate to Anywhere is a mystic crossroads to any dimension. As long as one knows the dimensions true name. Thus it exist in every dimension. Charmcaster only changed the name of her dimension as been shown previously and stated by gwen. Thus changing the door name across 2 dimension only. Not that it matters anyway since names are like keys and gate is just lock. What it has anything to do with concept? Just same as voice lock.

I've explained this at the top

U didn't. Door to anywhere is just a door which needs key. And key is true names. Legerdomain name been changed like thousands of times and nothing happened. Key and lock got nothing to do with concepts.

We has, as Alpha Rune is embodies the true name of magic/mana and is source of all essences in Universe.

Matters not. Concepts is more than just being source and controller. As I said. Destroying changing concept must have proportional effect on the object.

We know this via magic, and we (except you) knew that this was causing a change in the legerdomain as we saw when Ben noticed that the legerdomain was changed and it turned out that this was due to magic.

Can u link me the evidence which states that changing name of legerdomain was changing the nature of legerdomain? I'll conceed then.

 

[Reiner04]

Changing name of things = changing nature of named thing is all that needed.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Nope, that's not the context.

I think you are watching Ben 10 from TikTok XD

The Gate to Anywhere is a mystic crossroads to any dimension. As long as one knows the dimensions true name. Thus it exist in every dimension. Charmcaster only changed the name of her dimension as been shown previously and stated by gwen. Thus changing the door name across 2 dimension only. Not that it matters anyway since names are like keys and gate is just lock. What it has anything to do with concept? Just same as voice lock.

You are giving me proof that you are just bringing a video from another episode that precedes the episode I am talking about, Charmcaster is literally talking about changing the name of door and not legerdomain
"This door is locked because I changed its name"
Do you have proof that it is changed in name across 2 dimensions only, as what Charmcaster is literally doing is changing the name of door and there is no proof that it is only across 2 dimension, XD. Still prove Type 3 as type 3 can simple effect on govern the properties of object bound by this concept as say here:

3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon.

The nature of the door is to open a door to anyone no matter who he is only if he says true name of this place, but Charmcaster changed the name of the door which made the guest/nature of the door not able to open the door to anywhere even if you say true name of place, and make the nature of the door only responds to Charmcaster/or her powers.

U didn't. Door to anywhere is just a door which needs key. And key is true names. Legerdomain name been changed like thousands of times and nothing happened. Key and lock got nothing to do with concepts.

I did. I don't know what you're referring to but it's still an effect on the door where Charmcaster does a slight effect on the door where it makes it unopenable even when Darkstar used the door and tried to open it to another place and saying the true name of the place didn't open the door because Charmcaster changed the nature of door. Legerdomain has also changed, XD. I am not saying this, I am explaining the effect on object bound by this name.

Matters not. Concepts is more than just being source and controller. As I said. Destroying changing concept must have proportional effect on the object.

So? We don't talk about concept higher than type 3 if don't know. We don't talk about "Conceptual Destruction" XD. It's simple effect on object, so it's still Type 3.

Can u link me the evidence which states that changing name of legerdomain was changing the nature of legerdomain? I'll conceed then.

It's changing the Legerdomain, as say here.

 

[Reiner04]

Do you have proof that it is changed in name across 2 dimensions only, as what Charmcaster is literally doing is changing the name of door and there is no proof that it is only across 2 dimension, XD. Still prove Type 3 as type 3 can simple effect on govern the properties of object bound by this concept as say here:

Michael had other half of the name of legerdomain which is only connecting him to the legerdomain which was broken by gwen later via spell. If other half of name connecting him to legerdomain only and no other dimension then it's obvious where it connects. Each realm has their door that connects to other dimensions via true names.

I did. I don't know what you're referring to but it's still an effect on the door where Charmcaster does a slight effect on the door where it makes it unopenable even when Darkstar used the door and tried to open it to another place and saying the true name of the place didn't open the door because Charmcaster changed the nature of door. Legerdomain has also changed, XD. I am not saying this, I am explaining the effect on object bound by this name.

As I said before, she holds absolute power over legerdomain and anything in it via alpha rune. Be it a low life or the gate.
"This is my realm, my gate" again just what I said above, Each realm has the door and are interconnected. So changing her door name or changing her realm name is samething. She can as well control everything in her dimension.

Legerdomain name has been changed like thousands of times. Nothing about the legerdomain ever changed.


As long as names do not change the nature of something, they can't be concepts. All names works for door to anywhere is like key and door works as the lock. And it's still working like that and has been. Door didn't became car after charmcaster changed her realm/door name. That's what nature means. Change concept of circle to square then only square will be considered circle. There was nothing like circular circle from that moment onwards. This is called change in nature.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Michael had other half of the name of legerdomain which is only connecting him to the legerdomain which was broken by gwen later via spell. If other half of name connecting him to legerdomain only and no other dimension then it's obvious where it connects. Each realm has their door that connects to other dimensions via true names.

Yh, so if he had half of the true name of Legerdomain, is still can be use to open door to Legerdomain, and even isn't broken by Gwen. Still not prove this point, you need to prove that door is only changed it's name in across 2 dimensions only. Prove this.

As I said before, she holds absolute power over legerdomain and anything in it via alpha rune.

You don't even say this lol, and even if she has Alpha Rune, this not change anything

Be it a low life or the gate. "This is my realm, my gate" again just what I said above, Each realm has the door and are interconnected. So changing her door name or changing her realm name is samething. She can as well control everything in her dimension.

"This is my realm, my gate", this means only the door are changing to being It is related to Charmcaster because it changed its name, which made it control it in all dimensions, and what you say literally does not prove that you are repeating Karar's words and repeating. As above, give me clip for this. Really you enter things that I don't talk about

Legerdomain name has been changed like thousands of times. Nothing about the legerdomain ever changed.

Prove is "changed like thousands of times", Gwen literally say Legerdomain would change quickly due to magic

Ben: not one of your better entrances. Looks a little different than last time.

Gwen: it's a dimension made of magic. things are bound to change quickly.

As long as names do not change the nature of something, they can't be concepts.

Lol, XD, is not need change nature of something, for example:
Discord has Conceptual Manipulation due to can change chaos (Note: chaos are not mentioned as Concept)

• Self-Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3; Was changed so thoroughly that the very concept he embodied changed from chaos to order and was able to change back at any time)

Vanitas has CM, although it doesn't change the nature of a person, only body, mind and sense.

• Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3 - The book of vanitas can interfere with vampires true name and restore it. True names shape your very being. Losing your true name changes you physically, mentally, and takes away your sense of self)

All names works for door to anywhere is like key and door works as the lock. And it's still working like that and has been.

Yh, no as I explained above, you still use same an argument without proving what you are saying with clips or proofs

Door didn't became car after charmcaster changed her realm/door name. That's what nature means. Change concept of circle to square then only square will be considered circle. There was nothing like circular circle from that moment onwards. This is called change in nature.

Yes, you are using an argument that has nothing to do with it although this is an explanation type 1/2 ?

 

[Reiner04]

If I have not made it clear b4. I disagree with names being concepts in the verse.