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God-King Superman77 said:
Unlocking the pages completely slipped my mind. I'll get to that now.
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Ben 10: Alien X tiering ( Part 2 )
- Thread starter Eroij
- Start date
- Status
Unlocking the pages completely slipped my mind. I'll get to that now.
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- Thread starter
- #42
@Professor
'" '
The fact that their 2-A power can be taken away and made use to someone who is infinitely weaker should bring up Inconsistency."
1st. Aggergor is able to absorb the baby's power because it won't move, it has nothing do with the baby being weaker or stronger than him. The tier thing is irrelevant, there is no rule in fiction that says that characters not tier 2 or lower can't get their power absorbed from characters with a higher tier, so not sure what you're trying to say here..
2nd You already destroyed your own argument ....
"Unless is their evidence of him being able to 'accuarately' steal 2-A power?" There is none.
And for god's sake stop mentioning this "he is tier 2-a, this shouldn't be possible", it seems a lot of you people are under the assumption that hax isn't a thing, that bypasses your tier system completely. It "shouldn't" bring up any inconsistency, STOP throwing that word around, it's like none of you people even know what it means, like with twitter and hyperbole. How is it an inconsistency, like literally how? Vilgax absorbed the power of Diagon, who was several tiers above him, Kevin absorbed the power of Ben's omnitrix which is dozens of tiers above him etc
'and when was it ever proven he could DEFINITELY absorb all of the baby's powe'r?
"EDIT: ' So here is proof that Baby Celestialsapiens are defenseless while developing for that long. "'
@Professor This is what is in the wiki :
"According to Dwayne, it takes a baby Celestialsapien tens of thousands of years to develop."
There goes your proof, it says it takes thousands of years for it to develop, not for it to move. As I said before, you're making a baseless statement, when you are saying that it takes thousands of years for it to move. Unless you're saying that babies and children can't move, only adults can? I'm not moving yet, since my body isn't done developing??? Every adult non human or animal is defenseless?? We can't move or do anything, until we are fully developed?
in the end, it still won't disprove adults from being infinitely fast, so why do you keep attempting to prove your baseless claim? It wont change anything at all so just stop.
'" '
The fact that their 2-A power can be taken away and made use to someone who is infinitely weaker should bring up Inconsistency."
1st. Aggergor is able to absorb the baby's power because it won't move, it has nothing do with the baby being weaker or stronger than him. The tier thing is irrelevant, there is no rule in fiction that says that characters not tier 2 or lower can't get their power absorbed from characters with a higher tier, so not sure what you're trying to say here..
2nd You already destroyed your own argument ....
"Unless is their evidence of him being able to 'accuarately' steal 2-A power?" There is none.
And for god's sake stop mentioning this "he is tier 2-a, this shouldn't be possible", it seems a lot of you people are under the assumption that hax isn't a thing, that bypasses your tier system completely. It "shouldn't" bring up any inconsistency, STOP throwing that word around, it's like none of you people even know what it means, like with twitter and hyperbole. How is it an inconsistency, like literally how? Vilgax absorbed the power of Diagon, who was several tiers above him, Kevin absorbed the power of Ben's omnitrix which is dozens of tiers above him etc
'and when was it ever proven he could DEFINITELY absorb all of the baby's powe'r?
"EDIT: ' So here is proof that Baby Celestialsapiens are defenseless while developing for that long. "'
@Professor This is what is in the wiki :
"According to Dwayne, it takes a baby Celestialsapien tens of thousands of years to develop."
There goes your proof, it says it takes thousands of years for it to develop, not for it to move. As I said before, you're making a baseless statement, when you are saying that it takes thousands of years for it to move. Unless you're saying that babies and children can't move, only adults can? I'm not moving yet, since my body isn't done developing??? Every adult non human or animal is defenseless?? We can't move or do anything, until we are fully developed?
in the end, it still won't disprove adults from being infinitely fast, so why do you keep attempting to prove your baseless claim? It wont change anything at all so just stop.
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The changes suggested seem alright.
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Thinking about it, I would do it this way. Substitute the universe with a 0D Point, then place this point into a 2D coordinate system.Promestein said:
One coordinate indicates where you are in time, the other one indicates which parallel universe you are in. Both coordinates use real numbers, every smallest point on the axis stands for a single moment in time or another parallel universe.
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First of all, your interpretting things greatly out of preportion here. Interpreting things so wrong that I never once meant them to begin with no offense. Also, watch your tone please. There is no need to curse alot.
Secondly, check the last comment I made. The creator confirmed that Baby Celestialsapeins are like that when answering fan question so yes its true. It's mentioned by him, not the episodes.
Thirdly, yes u seemingly did edit them. I posted a picture showing you edited the page of Celestialsapeins page right after I referenced it in my argument above. Now im not trying to purposely accuse you of anything, but the one who edited the page has the exact same account name as your own and it was edited just hours after I first brought it up in the last thread. You don't need to be a member since the pages arent locked. Not to mention you even admit this in your reply:
"Anyone can edit their wiki, so if you still insist of blindly believeing in the wiki I'm gonna change alot of stuff from the wiki so you will stop using it as evidence."
Care to explain? And once again, stop claiming I made things up when I didnt please.
Not the same thing in the slightest. You making your own wiki wouldnt matter because, in ben 10's case, that is the original wiki where everything in the verse is referenced, talked about and profiled. All you would be doing is copying it, making your wiki even more unreliable if anything. Also, the marvel example is clearly false because not only is there not one piece of evidence that supports only "bulding level+" stats, it would be ridiculous downplaying that everyone would be laughing at.
Not care? Its power is about to be stolen from someone evil who wishes to to rule the universe and them, possibly killing them as well. Why would it not care? That is completely baseless and speculative just as you are accusing the wiki of. Also the babies don't have multiple personalities so 1 personality wouldnt stop itself from doing any action. We all have one personality, not multiple which can conflict each other. Why do you think Aggrogor wanted its power and not he adult ones? And not an egg? Its trapped within a spehere.
It means that if the babies don't have infinite speed then that means the adult Celestialsapiens wouldnt have it, especially when both would have the same stats only differenced by one having multiple personalites while the babies don't. Also your not in any position to tell me what to do, unless staff tells me to stop for their own reasons.
Not what im talking about. Im saying when Ben uses his aliens he isnt a weakling and there is no reason why his aliens wouldnt be any weaker than the average ones he's getting the DNA from. Im not talking about base ben who is just a human. So your saying that any Alien X is able to do the same feats to the same degree as Ben then?
Never said my claim wasnt baseless. Im saying your reasoning for why its false isnt concrete when it can also mean the same for your reasoning. It could have happened at any time, making both of our claims as to whether it was fast or slow speculative.
From what others say in the thread, it is being used a reason thats why im addressing it. Also yes your right. He wasnt called the strongest in the multiverse. He was called the strongest in the universe, which makes no sense for a 2-A's power to be reffered like that on such a low scope when they are the god tier. No other God tier in a verse who is tier 2 is given this treatment.
My bad. Typo. Meant to say Ben used clockwork to reverse the bomb's affects in order to stop it from destroying everything. That i'll admit was my fault.
Not understaing dimensional tiering =/= unreliabe. Omnipotence and our way of rating characters is something they don't understand but not knowing it doesnt mean everything else they do know is inaccurate. People keeping the site up to date means nothing when they are abused termsby many people who don't fully grasp it.
Again, them listing stuff such as Omnipotence means nothing as they are abused terms which they have no clue about unlike everything else they deal with. Them saying a "race of omnipotents" alone disproves it. But im not gonna get into that debate as thats a whole different story.
And if they did that, they would contradict their own omnipotence. Not to mention they dont create their own race, so thats meaningless to say. Also not saying Alien X is omnipotent but that is a different debate.
Me referencing the authors 6 thoughts statement has nothing to do with the timebomb. I used it to prove my point that the author has no clue on how dimensional tiering, by our standings anyway, truly work.
How does recreating one universe mean he created the timebomb? Not to mention, recreating something doesnt mean you created in the first place.
Its an example im using in my argument so I will reference it here. To even unleash moon level AP without ppl named Naruto and Toneri (who even at the time werent moon level), it would have to take every drop of chakra from all ppl in the 5 nations to acomplish. Suggesting they would try and triple it, especially when they had no time when under such a large predicament, is ludicris. And that function is never confirmed in canon.
It doesnt have tier 2 durability, or any durability at all. THATS my point. The fact that anyone can destroy the fault and therefore destroy all the timelines wouldnt make them tier 2. Its just a regular vault.
Them not being weapons means nothing as Alien X being the strongest being in the omnitrix is still a thing. And its clear they are far superior to average ninja and a vault.
When I say implies tier 3, im saying "strongest in the universe" implies that as even someone who is 3-A can acomplish that. Not sayiing Alien X is 3-A since that would be very large downplay but im using it as an example that reasoning like that isnt really good reasoning.
How is that me contradicting myself? Not being able to destroy a universe and not being in a certain tier, aka 3-A, for that reasoning is the same thing.
As for the rest,
Just because they need to develop doesnt mean their power needs to, otherwise Arrgorror wouldnt have wasted time taking its power when their wouldnt be any. When saying developing, I mean they have the power within them but they need to develop in order to use it at will when they can move about as adult celestialsapiens. I would agree with you that people can absorb power from beings several tiers above them, but the issue here is anyone in Tier 2 is infinitely above low tiers. Arrogor only had the power of 5 random aliens who do not in any way suggest he can absorb power that is infinitely above his own. And since there is no proof he can even have that level of power, what suggests he could prevent that power from destroying himself? Power absorbtion doesnt mean you can absorb power ridiculously beyond your own to such a degree, its an NLF that way.
Secondly, check the last comment I made. The creator confirmed that Baby Celestialsapeins are like that when answering fan question so yes its true. It's mentioned by him, not the episodes.
Thirdly, yes u seemingly did edit them. I posted a picture showing you edited the page of Celestialsapeins page right after I referenced it in my argument above. Now im not trying to purposely accuse you of anything, but the one who edited the page has the exact same account name as your own and it was edited just hours after I first brought it up in the last thread. You don't need to be a member since the pages arent locked. Not to mention you even admit this in your reply:
"Anyone can edit their wiki, so if you still insist of blindly believeing in the wiki I'm gonna change alot of stuff from the wiki so you will stop using it as evidence."
Care to explain? And once again, stop claiming I made things up when I didnt please.
Not the same thing in the slightest. You making your own wiki wouldnt matter because, in ben 10's case, that is the original wiki where everything in the verse is referenced, talked about and profiled. All you would be doing is copying it, making your wiki even more unreliable if anything. Also, the marvel example is clearly false because not only is there not one piece of evidence that supports only "bulding level+" stats, it would be ridiculous downplaying that everyone would be laughing at.
Not care? Its power is about to be stolen from someone evil who wishes to to rule the universe and them, possibly killing them as well. Why would it not care? That is completely baseless and speculative just as you are accusing the wiki of. Also the babies don't have multiple personalities so 1 personality wouldnt stop itself from doing any action. We all have one personality, not multiple which can conflict each other. Why do you think Aggrogor wanted its power and not he adult ones? And not an egg? Its trapped within a spehere.
It means that if the babies don't have infinite speed then that means the adult Celestialsapiens wouldnt have it, especially when both would have the same stats only differenced by one having multiple personalites while the babies don't. Also your not in any position to tell me what to do, unless staff tells me to stop for their own reasons.
Not what im talking about. Im saying when Ben uses his aliens he isnt a weakling and there is no reason why his aliens wouldnt be any weaker than the average ones he's getting the DNA from. Im not talking about base ben who is just a human. So your saying that any Alien X is able to do the same feats to the same degree as Ben then?
Never said my claim wasnt baseless. Im saying your reasoning for why its false isnt concrete when it can also mean the same for your reasoning. It could have happened at any time, making both of our claims as to whether it was fast or slow speculative.
From what others say in the thread, it is being used a reason thats why im addressing it. Also yes your right. He wasnt called the strongest in the multiverse. He was called the strongest in the universe, which makes no sense for a 2-A's power to be reffered like that on such a low scope when they are the god tier. No other God tier in a verse who is tier 2 is given this treatment.
My bad. Typo. Meant to say Ben used clockwork to reverse the bomb's affects in order to stop it from destroying everything. That i'll admit was my fault.
Not understaing dimensional tiering =/= unreliabe. Omnipotence and our way of rating characters is something they don't understand but not knowing it doesnt mean everything else they do know is inaccurate. People keeping the site up to date means nothing when they are abused termsby many people who don't fully grasp it.
Again, them listing stuff such as Omnipotence means nothing as they are abused terms which they have no clue about unlike everything else they deal with. Them saying a "race of omnipotents" alone disproves it. But im not gonna get into that debate as thats a whole different story.
And if they did that, they would contradict their own omnipotence. Not to mention they dont create their own race, so thats meaningless to say. Also not saying Alien X is omnipotent but that is a different debate.
Me referencing the authors 6 thoughts statement has nothing to do with the timebomb. I used it to prove my point that the author has no clue on how dimensional tiering, by our standings anyway, truly work.
How does recreating one universe mean he created the timebomb? Not to mention, recreating something doesnt mean you created in the first place.
Its an example im using in my argument so I will reference it here. To even unleash moon level AP without ppl named Naruto and Toneri (who even at the time werent moon level), it would have to take every drop of chakra from all ppl in the 5 nations to acomplish. Suggesting they would try and triple it, especially when they had no time when under such a large predicament, is ludicris. And that function is never confirmed in canon.
It doesnt have tier 2 durability, or any durability at all. THATS my point. The fact that anyone can destroy the fault and therefore destroy all the timelines wouldnt make them tier 2. Its just a regular vault.
Them not being weapons means nothing as Alien X being the strongest being in the omnitrix is still a thing. And its clear they are far superior to average ninja and a vault.
When I say implies tier 3, im saying "strongest in the universe" implies that as even someone who is 3-A can acomplish that. Not sayiing Alien X is 3-A since that would be very large downplay but im using it as an example that reasoning like that isnt really good reasoning.
How is that me contradicting myself? Not being able to destroy a universe and not being in a certain tier, aka 3-A, for that reasoning is the same thing.
As for the rest,
Just because they need to develop doesnt mean their power needs to, otherwise Arrgorror wouldnt have wasted time taking its power when their wouldnt be any. When saying developing, I mean they have the power within them but they need to develop in order to use it at will when they can move about as adult celestialsapiens. I would agree with you that people can absorb power from beings several tiers above them, but the issue here is anyone in Tier 2 is infinitely above low tiers. Arrogor only had the power of 5 random aliens who do not in any way suggest he can absorb power that is infinitely above his own. And since there is no proof he can even have that level of power, what suggests he could prevent that power from destroying himself? Power absorbtion doesnt mean you can absorb power ridiculously beyond your own to such a degree, its an NLF that way.
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Linking is done like this. [[ page name ]]. For example, to link immortality, you do [[Immortality]]. Without the nowiki filter, it looks like this "Immortality".
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Because from what I hear and have been told, absorbing power that is infinitely above your own (tier 2 is infinitely above any tier lower than it) is not possible and if it were to happen it would be inconsistent. Arrogor is just a regular being with 5 randomly strong aliens he captured. How does that mean he can absorb 2-A power?
Overall, maybe I should just stop as I am fine with Alien X being upgraded its just the reasonings for why he is that trouble me. But if everyone else is really fine it with overall, I'll concede.
Overall, maybe I should just stop as I am fine with Alien X being upgraded its just the reasonings for why he is that trouble me. But if everyone else is really fine it with overall, I'll concede.
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Absorbtion doesn't mean anything with tiers. And again, even if the Celestialsapiens are Low 2-C, you say Aggregor shouldn't have been able to absorb the Celestialsapien's power. That just shows how powerful his energy absorption is.
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@Ever
But if is done by someone who isnt even tier 2 or tier 3 to begin with, wouldnt that fall under NLF? I have argued energy absorbtion in the past and was told its not possible for a lower tier being to even hold in energy from someone a tier or 2 above them, let alone anyone whos infinitely stronger than them. Is this true/false?
@Eroji
Again, stop telling me what to do. You are not in any position to order me around. Also, if you disagree with me, why say "there is no proof he could absorb all the power in the first place"? That works against your argument.
But if is done by someone who isnt even tier 2 or tier 3 to begin with, wouldnt that fall under NLF? I have argued energy absorbtion in the past and was told its not possible for a lower tier being to even hold in energy from someone a tier or 2 above them, let alone anyone whos infinitely stronger than them. Is this true/false?
@Eroji
Again, stop telling me what to do. You are not in any position to order me around. Also, if you disagree with me, why say "there is no proof he could absorb all the power in the first place"? That works against your argument.
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@Kukui. You gotta keep in mind that fiction doesn't play into tiering system. His energy absorption is unique to that series and he's just a very powerful energy absorber. This doesn't effect other energy absorbers from different series.
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@Kukui Not if it actually happens. NLF is assuming that a power that is shown at a certain level has no limit unless that limit is actually stated. Using science performing the feat in question would be impossible, but as we know fiction tends to ignore this.
However I don't know Ben10 well enough, to argue whether it applies or not. Just wanted to give some input.
However I don't know Ben10 well enough, to argue whether it applies or not. Just wanted to give some input.
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Well if you put it like that I guess I can see it.
Alright, nevermind then. Im fine with the reasonings now.
My bad about this.
Alright, nevermind then. Im fine with the reasonings now.
My bad about this.
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I'm sorry what are Alien X's 2-A feats? Thought we where scaling him to the Time Bomb
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@Everyone Look into this picture here:
DId we see any universes in this picture? No, because we are seeing how the nebula is being formed. Plus Cal has mentioned about hundreds of stars and galaxies being shown. I like to mention that Ben 10's cosmology is completely been screwed up as I have watched all the episodes of Ben 10 series myself as norwhere did it mentioned higher dimensional beings until later on plus did we ever have any solid evidence that will put them at 2-A? No, because the logic being used by the user of the original OP is faulty unto itself. Also how did we know that Paradox mentioned infinite universes? Did he truly outright stated this? No, he didn't. Also I think we should be careful about this as well. Also later parts in the cartoon series of Ben 10 is when we see 4D beings fighting each other.
DId we see any universes in this picture? No, because we are seeing how the nebula is being formed. Plus Cal has mentioned about hundreds of stars and galaxies being shown. I like to mention that Ben 10's cosmology is completely been screwed up as I have watched all the episodes of Ben 10 series myself as norwhere did it mentioned higher dimensional beings until later on plus did we ever have any solid evidence that will put them at 2-A? No, because the logic being used by the user of the original OP is faulty unto itself. Also how did we know that Paradox mentioned infinite universes? Did he truly outright stated this? No, he didn't. Also I think we should be careful about this as well. Also later parts in the cartoon series of Ben 10 is when we see 4D beings fighting each other.
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@Kukui If a lower tier character has actually shown capable of absorbing a 2-A's power, then acknowledging that they can do so is not a NLF.
What would be a NLF, is if someone showed at best the ability to absorb a 5-B's power, then extrapolated that into saying he could do so on a 2-A scale.
EDIT: Got ninja'd by other responses.
What would be a NLF, is if someone showed at best the ability to absorb a 5-B's power, then extrapolated that into saying he could do so on a 2-A scale.
EDIT: Got ninja'd by other responses.
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But it didnt happen. It was about to happen until Kevin stepped in powered up by Kid Ben's omnitrix to get him away from the baby to absorb its power. So its debatable at that point.
Also, from what I saw before, Aggrogor is able to be absorbed (or rather his power) be absorbed by other fodders and that he needed a machine in order to boost his absorbing energy abilties.
But it doesnt matter.
Also, from what I saw before, Aggrogor is able to be absorbed (or rather his power) be absorbed by other fodders and that he needed a machine in order to boost his absorbing energy abilties.
But it doesnt matter.
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Well can someone close this everyone mostly seem to agree with 2-A Alien X(some more then others) and the changers have been made
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True, if it didn't happen it is debatable. However I lack the knowledge about ben10 to give an opinion. Just because it has already been added, doesn't mean one cannot argue for a change anymore. If you think it should be different then come up with a reasoning and see what others think about it.
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@Kukui Actually I think it is time to recheck the statements, facts, and even feat checks. I think we should let the rest of the highers up see this as I currently has a firm NO against this upgrade.
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Ben Tennyson (Original)'s page should be locked too.
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The baby taking thousands of years to develop doesn't prove anything, stop mentionig the baby already.
"Not care? Its power is about to be stolen from someone evil who wishes 'to to' rule the universe and them, possibly killing them as well. Why would it not care? That is completely baseless and speculative just as you are accusing the wiki of. 'Also' the babies don't have multiple personalities so 1 personality 'wouldnt' stop itself from doing any action. We all have one personality, not multiple which can conflict each other. Why do you think Aggrogor wanted its power and not he adult ones? And not an egg? Its trapped within a 'spehere'."
Just like how Bellicus didn't care saving the universe in, well, pretty much every episode, why should the baby? Serena and Bellicus BOTH didn't care that the Gladiator was kicking Ben's ass, had it no been for Ben, they would've died. Also proof that the baby would've died after getting its limitless power absorbed? If the baby only had a personality like Bellicus, it would indeed prevent it from moving. Bellicus simply don't care about anything.
It's not an egg, and it's not trapped. That's how the baby looks, it is shining.
Proof the babies are stated to be as fast as the adults? Same power = / = Same speed.
So you admit that Ben's alien are average? All i needed to hear. And yeah, any Celestialsapien scale to Alien X. Watch the episode "Universe vs Tennyson".
"Never said my claim 'wasnt' baseless. 'Im' saying your reasoning for why its false 'isnt' concrete when it can also mean the same for your reasoning. It could have happened at any time, making both of our claims as to whether it was fast or slow speculative."
Don't bring it up then, if you can't disprove them being infinitely fast.
He 'wasnt' called the strongest in the multiverse. He was called the strongest in the universe, which makes no sense for a 2-A's power to be 'reffered' like that on such a low scope when they are the god tier. No other God tier in a verse who is tier 2 is given this treatment.
Now you're just messing with me, clearly you haven't read or watched all fiction so there would actually be no way for you to even know this, actually scratch that. Prove it, you made the claim, prove it. Stop mentioning "tier 2 this, tier 2 that", it's not a proper argument. Seem you have successfully ignored this but I will say it again, it obviously just means that there are beings outside of the universe stronger than Alien X, not that hard to get.
"My bad. Typo. Meant to say Ben used clockwork to reverse the bomb's affects in order to stop it from destroying everything. That i'll admit was my fault."
He created the multiverse, he didn't reverse anything. Prove he did, don't site the wiki.
Not understaing dimensional tiering =/= unreliabe. Omnipotence and our way of rating characters is something they don't understand but not knowing it doesnt mean everything else they do know is inaccurate. People keeping the site up to date means nothing when they are abused 'termsby' many people who don't fully grasp it.
Your way of rating chararcters isn't 100% factually correct, that's just your incredibly biased opinion. So you decide what baseless claim they have are correct, and not me who has actually verified those baseless claim and watched the episodes?
Don't know what the bolded means.
"Them saying a "race of 'omnipotents'" alone disproves it. But 'im' not gonna get into that debate as 'thats' a whole different story. "
You clearly don't know what omnipotence means. You can't disprove omnipotence, NOTHING can disprove omnipotence. An omnipotent can do ANYTHING, therefore he can also make a race of omnipotent, he cant you say? Well, guess he isn't OMNIPOTENT then.
"And if they did that, they would contradict their own omnipotence. Not to mention they dont create their own race, so thats meaningless to say. Also not saying Alien X is omnipotent but that is a different debate."
An omnipotent can do anything, therefore they can also contradict their own omnipotence. Yes, Alien X do create their own race, like humans create humans, what are you talking about?
"Me referencing the authors 6 thoughts statement has nothing to do with the timebomb. I used it to prove my point that the author has no clue on how dimensional tiering, by our standings anyway, truly work."
Why is the author wrong?
"How does recreating one universe mean he created the timebomb? Not to mention, recreating something 'doesnt' mean you created in the first place."
Did you miss the part about "everything in the universe", the timebomb is part of said universe.
Please tell me you're joking about this create/ recreate thing , like you must be trolling or is English not your first language? Do you want me to link to you a dictionary what the word recreate means?
'Its an example 'im' using in my argument so I will reference it here. To even unleash moon level AP without ppl named Naruto and 'Toneri' (who even at the time 'werent' moon level), it would have to take every drop of chakra from all ppl in the 5 nations to 'acomplish.
Baseless assumptions.
"Suggesting they would try and triple it, especially when they had no time when under such a large predicament, is 'ludicris'." Baseless.
"And that function is never confirmed in canon." You have no idea how it works in the first place, good luck scaling anyone to the weapon.
"It 'doesnt' have tier 2 'durability,' or any durability at all. THATS my point. The fact that anyone can destroy the fault and therefore destroy all the timelines 'wouldnt' make them tier 2. 'Its' just a regular vault."
You're contradicting yourself again, jesus Christ. Destroying the vault is the same as pressing the detonation button, it doesn't mean anything at all.
"Them not being weapons means nothing as Alien X being the strongest being in the omnitrix is still a thing. And its clear they are far superior to average ninja and a vault." You've already admitted yourself they can't do what the vault can+ it's the weapon not the ninjas that are moon level.
"When I say implies tier 3, 'im' saying "strongest in the universe" implies that as even someone who is 3-A can 'acomplish' that. Not 'sayiing' Alien X is 3-A since that would be very large downplay but 'im' using it as an example that reasoning like that 'isnt' really good reasoning."
Don't care what it implies, you're still wrong. Strongest in the universe, just means strongest in the universe. It doesn't mean faster than light, it doesn't mean Tier 3, it just means nobody else in the universe is stronger, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT IT IMPLIES.
"How is that me contradicting myself? Not being able to destroy a universe and not being in a certain tier, aka 3-A, for that reasoning is the same thing."
You're saying Alien X is tier 3, because he is only the strongest in the universe, then you say being the strongest in the universe doesn't mean he can destroy one. If you still fail to see how that is contradicting then.. :I
As for the rest,
Just because they need to develop doesnt mean their power needs to, otherwise Arrgorror wouldnt have wasted time taking its power when their wouldnt be any. When saying developing, I mean they have the power within them .
Nice, never said anything about their power developing, stop putting words in my mouth. " but they need to develop in order to use it at will when they can move about as adult celestialsapiens."
You are assuming stuff that was never said, nice again. Evidence>>>>>>>Your Headcanon.
"I would agree with you that people can absorb power from beings several tiers above them, but the issue here is anyone in Tier 2 is infinitely above low tiers. Arrogor only had the power of 5 random aliens who do not in any way suggest he can absorb power that is infinitely above his own."
Hmm, I don't think you understand how fiction works. Being able to absorb power well above yours happens all the time in Marvel, but you don't see people claiming TOAA and Galactus aren't multiversal because much weaker characters absorbed their power.
"And since there is no proof he can even have that level of power, what suggests he could prevent that power from destroying himself? Power 'absorbtion' 'doesnt' mean you can absorb power ridiculously beyond your own to such a degree, 'its' an NLF that way."
I don't care about Aggregor, so why are you even mentioning him?Him not being able to absorb all its powers proves what? Nothing, that's' right. The absence of evidence is not evidence.
I don't think you know what a NLF is, and you're just throwing the term. It's not a NLF, when the damn limit is a Celestialsapien's power, you obviously don't know what the term means.
"Ridiculously beyond your own", it's like you don't even know what fiction is. Why would fiction care about this exactly? FTL travel is not possible because it goes against the laws of physics, yet does fiction care? Does this not happen all the time in fiction? Is their speed now a NLF?
Did Thanos not get the Infinitely Gauntlet, did he not get the HEART OF THE UNIVERSE ???? He absorbed both, and went from tier 4 to tier 2 and even tier 1.
You have no evidence of Aggegornot being able to the baby's power, you're basing it on your opinion and misunderstanding of terms.
And for the last goddamn time, there is no evidence he could've abosbred the power in the first place. I'm not gonna say this again.
"Not care? Its power is about to be stolen from someone evil who wishes 'to to' rule the universe and them, possibly killing them as well. Why would it not care? That is completely baseless and speculative just as you are accusing the wiki of. 'Also' the babies don't have multiple personalities so 1 personality 'wouldnt' stop itself from doing any action. We all have one personality, not multiple which can conflict each other. Why do you think Aggrogor wanted its power and not he adult ones? And not an egg? Its trapped within a 'spehere'."
Just like how Bellicus didn't care saving the universe in, well, pretty much every episode, why should the baby? Serena and Bellicus BOTH didn't care that the Gladiator was kicking Ben's ass, had it no been for Ben, they would've died. Also proof that the baby would've died after getting its limitless power absorbed? If the baby only had a personality like Bellicus, it would indeed prevent it from moving. Bellicus simply don't care about anything.
It's not an egg, and it's not trapped. That's how the baby looks, it is shining.
Proof the babies are stated to be as fast as the adults? Same power = / = Same speed.
So you admit that Ben's alien are average? All i needed to hear. And yeah, any Celestialsapien scale to Alien X. Watch the episode "Universe vs Tennyson".
"Never said my claim 'wasnt' baseless. 'Im' saying your reasoning for why its false 'isnt' concrete when it can also mean the same for your reasoning. It could have happened at any time, making both of our claims as to whether it was fast or slow speculative."
Don't bring it up then, if you can't disprove them being infinitely fast.
He 'wasnt' called the strongest in the multiverse. He was called the strongest in the universe, which makes no sense for a 2-A's power to be 'reffered' like that on such a low scope when they are the god tier. No other God tier in a verse who is tier 2 is given this treatment.
Now you're just messing with me, clearly you haven't read or watched all fiction so there would actually be no way for you to even know this, actually scratch that. Prove it, you made the claim, prove it. Stop mentioning "tier 2 this, tier 2 that", it's not a proper argument. Seem you have successfully ignored this but I will say it again, it obviously just means that there are beings outside of the universe stronger than Alien X, not that hard to get.
"My bad. Typo. Meant to say Ben used clockwork to reverse the bomb's affects in order to stop it from destroying everything. That i'll admit was my fault."
He created the multiverse, he didn't reverse anything. Prove he did, don't site the wiki.
Not understaing dimensional tiering =/= unreliabe. Omnipotence and our way of rating characters is something they don't understand but not knowing it doesnt mean everything else they do know is inaccurate. People keeping the site up to date means nothing when they are abused 'termsby' many people who don't fully grasp it.
Your way of rating chararcters isn't 100% factually correct, that's just your incredibly biased opinion. So you decide what baseless claim they have are correct, and not me who has actually verified those baseless claim and watched the episodes?
Don't know what the bolded means.
"Them saying a "race of 'omnipotents'" alone disproves it. But 'im' not gonna get into that debate as 'thats' a whole different story. "
You clearly don't know what omnipotence means. You can't disprove omnipotence, NOTHING can disprove omnipotence. An omnipotent can do ANYTHING, therefore he can also make a race of omnipotent, he cant you say? Well, guess he isn't OMNIPOTENT then.
"And if they did that, they would contradict their own omnipotence. Not to mention they dont create their own race, so thats meaningless to say. Also not saying Alien X is omnipotent but that is a different debate."
An omnipotent can do anything, therefore they can also contradict their own omnipotence. Yes, Alien X do create their own race, like humans create humans, what are you talking about?
"Me referencing the authors 6 thoughts statement has nothing to do with the timebomb. I used it to prove my point that the author has no clue on how dimensional tiering, by our standings anyway, truly work."
Why is the author wrong?
"How does recreating one universe mean he created the timebomb? Not to mention, recreating something 'doesnt' mean you created in the first place."
Did you miss the part about "everything in the universe", the timebomb is part of said universe.
Please tell me you're joking about this create/ recreate thing , like you must be trolling or is English not your first language? Do you want me to link to you a dictionary what the word recreate means?
'Its an example 'im' using in my argument so I will reference it here. To even unleash moon level AP without ppl named Naruto and 'Toneri' (who even at the time 'werent' moon level), it would have to take every drop of chakra from all ppl in the 5 nations to 'acomplish.
Baseless assumptions.
"Suggesting they would try and triple it, especially when they had no time when under such a large predicament, is 'ludicris'." Baseless.
"And that function is never confirmed in canon." You have no idea how it works in the first place, good luck scaling anyone to the weapon.
"It 'doesnt' have tier 2 'durability,' or any durability at all. THATS my point. The fact that anyone can destroy the fault and therefore destroy all the timelines 'wouldnt' make them tier 2. 'Its' just a regular vault."
You're contradicting yourself again, jesus Christ. Destroying the vault is the same as pressing the detonation button, it doesn't mean anything at all.
"Them not being weapons means nothing as Alien X being the strongest being in the omnitrix is still a thing. And its clear they are far superior to average ninja and a vault." You've already admitted yourself they can't do what the vault can+ it's the weapon not the ninjas that are moon level.
"When I say implies tier 3, 'im' saying "strongest in the universe" implies that as even someone who is 3-A can 'acomplish' that. Not 'sayiing' Alien X is 3-A since that would be very large downplay but 'im' using it as an example that reasoning like that 'isnt' really good reasoning."
Don't care what it implies, you're still wrong. Strongest in the universe, just means strongest in the universe. It doesn't mean faster than light, it doesn't mean Tier 3, it just means nobody else in the universe is stronger, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT IT IMPLIES.
"How is that me contradicting myself? Not being able to destroy a universe and not being in a certain tier, aka 3-A, for that reasoning is the same thing."
You're saying Alien X is tier 3, because he is only the strongest in the universe, then you say being the strongest in the universe doesn't mean he can destroy one. If you still fail to see how that is contradicting then.. :I
As for the rest,
Just because they need to develop doesnt mean their power needs to, otherwise Arrgorror wouldnt have wasted time taking its power when their wouldnt be any. When saying developing, I mean they have the power within them .
Nice, never said anything about their power developing, stop putting words in my mouth. " but they need to develop in order to use it at will when they can move about as adult celestialsapiens."
You are assuming stuff that was never said, nice again. Evidence>>>>>>>Your Headcanon.
"I would agree with you that people can absorb power from beings several tiers above them, but the issue here is anyone in Tier 2 is infinitely above low tiers. Arrogor only had the power of 5 random aliens who do not in any way suggest he can absorb power that is infinitely above his own."
Hmm, I don't think you understand how fiction works. Being able to absorb power well above yours happens all the time in Marvel, but you don't see people claiming TOAA and Galactus aren't multiversal because much weaker characters absorbed their power.
"And since there is no proof he can even have that level of power, what suggests he could prevent that power from destroying himself? Power 'absorbtion' 'doesnt' mean you can absorb power ridiculously beyond your own to such a degree, 'its' an NLF that way."
I don't care about Aggregor, so why are you even mentioning him?Him not being able to absorb all its powers proves what? Nothing, that's' right. The absence of evidence is not evidence.
I don't think you know what a NLF is, and you're just throwing the term. It's not a NLF, when the damn limit is a Celestialsapien's power, you obviously don't know what the term means.
"Ridiculously beyond your own", it's like you don't even know what fiction is. Why would fiction care about this exactly? FTL travel is not possible because it goes against the laws of physics, yet does fiction care? Does this not happen all the time in fiction? Is their speed now a NLF?
Did Thanos not get the Infinitely Gauntlet, did he not get the HEART OF THE UNIVERSE ???? He absorbed both, and went from tier 4 to tier 2 and even tier 1.
You have no evidence of Aggegornot being able to the baby's power, you're basing it on your opinion and misunderstanding of terms.
And for the last goddamn time, there is no evidence he could've abosbred the power in the first place. I'm not gonna say this again.
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@Starkiller
Wait how can there be a nebula in the FoC if there's no time and that its a void?
@DaFritzi
Well here is Aggregors page on the ben 10 wiki.
It says that his energy absorbing is only able to absorb 1/10th of the victims power. However this is only his base form. It says he needed a machine to boost his energy absorbing abilities so he could absorb the other 4 Aliens he needed in order to use the Map of Infinity to enter into the Forge of Creation.
What do you make of this then?
Wait how can there be a nebula in the FoC if there's no time and that its a void?
@DaFritzi
Well here is Aggregors page on the ben 10 wiki.
It says that his energy absorbing is only able to absorb 1/10th of the victims power. However this is only his base form. It says he needed a machine to boost his energy absorbing abilities so he could absorb the other 4 Aliens he needed in order to use the Map of Infinity to enter into the Forge of Creation.
What do you make of this then?
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Now you're just being extremely obnoxious.Starkiller215 said:@Everyone Look into this picture here:
DId we see any universes in this picture? No, because we are seeing how the nebula is being formed. Plus Cal has mentioned about hundreds of stars and galaxies being shown. I like to mention that Ben 10's cosmology is completely been screwed up as I have watched all the episodes of Ben 10 series myself as norwhere did it mentioned higher dimensional beings until later on plus did we ever have any solid evidence that will put them at 2-A? No, because the logic being used by the user of the original OP is faulty unto itself.
Starkiller, what the in the goddamn world are you on about? The picture is a picture of the Forge Of Creation, a nebula outside of the universe and outside of time. What does it have to do with anything? The Nebula is not being formed in that picture, what are you talking about? Watch the episode "Forge of creation", tell me when anything like this was ever stated. Nevertheless, this does not disprove anything.
Cal has never mentioned hundreds of stars and galaxies, and it doesn't matter when there infinite timelines.
I never mentioned higher dimensional beings, so why did you bring that up?
"Also how did we know that Paradox mentioned infinite universes? Did he truly outright stated this? No, he didn't. 'Also''' I think we should be careful about this as well. '''Also''' later parts in the cartoon series of Ben 10 is when we see 4D beings fighting each other"
How do we know? Well perhaps because he said the word "infinite", and because of the mention of String Theory as well as Quantum Mechanics.
I never mentioned 4D beings, what relevancy does this info have here? 'None. Watch the videos or get out of this thread, it's that simple. Stop repeating yourself, PROVE you're right.
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It is not a void and is never described or shown as void ever. If it was a void it would only have 1 colour+ again it is never stated or implied ever to be a void. A void is not a place, but the absence of one, the FOG is a place stated multiple times. The FOG is the nebula.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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@Eroji I have see the episodes myself. In One of the episodes you linked, a character mentioned "cosmos". This can be mean hundreds of stars and galaxies that existed within a universe. That picture alone doesn't show multiple universe in the background that I upload. How do we know you being truly honest with us if you gonna take statements from both characters and a staff member of a studio who mentioned "a multiverse or an omniverse?" Then proceed to take things out of context is something I see right now.
@Kukui How you know what a Nebula look like irl? They can look like this:
@Kukui How you know what a Nebula look like irl? They can look like this:
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I have common sense and logical reasoning. The reasoning of this upgrade is what I question right now. I valued honesty. Your attitude is unjustified as of right now. I have been against this when I see this upgrade from a Low 2-C to a 2-A as complete illogical way to put it.
Also clearly you don't know how stubborn I am in this debate as well.
Also clearly you don't know how stubborn I am in this debate as well.
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This has been accepted by several staff members and users, I think its best to close it like God-King said.
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