Batman (Post-Crisis) AP Upgrade

[Transcending]

Batman defeated Bane in an off-panel fight(Batman: Bane), fought him again later in the same comic having an advantage, and was directly confirmed to be stronger than him(Batman Villains Secret Files and Origins). Hence Batman should be 8-C.

 

[Armorchompy]

Bane is 8-C by upscaling from Batman-level or > Batman people so if anything this downgrades Bane to 9-A+.

 

[Confluctor]

Bane scaling chain be wild

Btw, does bane not have any concrete feats that might be calced? His scaling is kinda whacky rn

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This sounds like less of a reason to upgrade all the Batman level characters and more like a reason to downgrade Bane. Because the feat in question was Batman having a 9-A+ feat, and Bane is assumed to be 8-C via being a lot stronger than Batman.

Although, when it comes to Bane, it needs to be specified. Is Batman stronger than base form bane according to said comic, or was Bane using a Venom that multiplies his muscular strength ten times over? Scratch that, that's High 8-C.

That just means base Bane and Killer Croc and other characters who scale should be downgraded to 9-A+.

 

[Armorchompy]

Generally I think Bane and other folks such as Killer Croc or Azrael being stronger than Batman is more consistent than the opposite, obviously it's comics though so there's a lot of evidence for either

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah, this just means that Bane should be downgraded to 9-A+ unless someone finds more examples of him being stronger than Batman-level people.

Killer Croc’s justifications are pretty bad as well, his Pre-Hush key should likely be downgraded as well.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I more so meant based of specific comic statement and excluded this being an outlier.

Also, when he said "Stronger" can be loose; while it was mentioning "Perfect physical specimen". Batman was more likely just more agile and a better fighter rather than outright having better lifting strength, striking strength, or durability.

 

[Transcending]

Is Batman stronger than base form bane according to said comic, or was Bane using a Venom that multiplies his muscular strength ten times over?

Base.

 

[Transcending]

Also, when he said "Stronger" can be loose; while it was mentioning "Perfect physical specimen". Batman was more likely just more agile and a better fighter rather than outright having better lifting strength, striking strength, or durability.

Possibly which is why I included those two fights along with it.

 

[Transcending]

Generally I think Bane and other folks such as Killer Croc or Azrael being stronger than Batman is more consistent than the opposite, obviously it's comics though so there's a lot of evidence for either

Can you show me some evidences of Bane being stronger than Batman?

 

[Armorchompy]

look at profile

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Generally I think Bane and other folks such as Killer Croc or Azrael being stronger than Batman is more consistent than the opposite, obviously it's comics though so there's a lot of evidence for either

Maybe they got stronger over time? We should take into account when the feats happened

 

[Transcending]

look at profile

I did and I saw two reasons for it:

1: Bane fought Azrael

2: Bane fought Killer Croc

I will address both of them.

1: Bane fought Azrael but Azrael's profile shows three fights of Azrael winning and using this to say Bane>Batman is scaling while Bane's own fights with Batman say Batman is superior. Other than the two in my original post, here's another where Batman beats Bane in a tough fight. If that isn't enough, there's another where Bane had to sucker punch Batman and still run away and was crushed when he fought Batman without sucker punching him later, forcing him to distract Batman.

2: This is scaling again which contradicts their actual fights but in the fight where Bane broke Killer Croc's hand, Killer Croc had the advantage at the beginning. And, there are many instances of Batman beating Killer Croc including one-shotting and blitzing. Most instances of Killer Croc beating Batman are from early PC where Batman was all-around much weaker than his later PC self.

 

[Transcending]

Bump

 

[Transcending]

Bump

 

[Hellbeast]

NGL Bane's High 8-C is absolute garbage and he needs to be downgraded
That said I can see Bane getting a baseline 8-C via Venom but that's it

We do need to check if he has better feats but I don't think he uses Venom a ton in PC

 

[Transcending]

Bump

NGL Bane's High 8-C is absolute garbage and he needs to be downgraded
That said I can see Bane getting a baseline 8-C via Venom but that's it

Killer Croc's speed could also use some changes. It's stated

even with a bad leg he can catch Batman off guard

However, Killer Croc at this time was stated to be amped by Venom to such a degree that he was more powerful than ever

 

[Antvasima]

So should base Bane be downgraded to 9-A+, and Venom-amplified Bane be downgraded to 8-C then?

 

[Transcending]

So should base Bane be downgraded to 9-A+, and Venom-amplified Bane be downgraded to 8-C then?

Yup.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Has somebody checked what 10x Batman's energy output qualifies as in our attack potency scale, so we make certain that no mistake is made?

 

[LordTracer]

Batman scales to 0.242350160503 tons, so 10x would be 2.42350160503 tons, which is still Large Building level.

 

[Transcending]

Then Bane with venom should keep his tier.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, he should.

 

[Hellbeast]

Again the tenfold thing is clearly hyperbolic since he's never treated as magnitudes stronger then the others

Azrael is able to fight him in Knightfall even on Venom and I believe Bruce has similar showings

 

[Transcending]

We should also probably downgrade Killer Croc(Pre-Hush).

 

[LordTracer]

We should, but that would probably need its own thread.

 

[Transcending]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Again the tenfold thing is clearly hyperbolic since he's never treated as magnitudes stronger then the others

Azrael is able to fight him in Knightfall even on Venom and I believe Bruce has similar showings

So how should we rate Venom-powered Bane exactly?

 

[Transcending]

So how should we rate Venom-powered Bane exactly?

We will probably need more input for his rating.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Maybe "At least 8-C" would work?

 

[Transcending]

Okay. Maybe "At least 8-C" would work?

I think so.

 

[LordTracer]

At least 8-C with the justification of overpowering Azrael (Batman Vol. 1 #500) would work for his Venom key.

 

[Hellbeast]

So how should we rate Venom-powered Bane exactly?

Baseline 8-C prolly
Bane without Venom is already treated as being > the likes of Bruce and Azrael and Venom simply magnifies that strength
I bring this up because Batman already scales to a feat that's 0.21 Tons of TNT and another that's 0.24 Tons of TNT
Dude is out here, bringing a man who's not far off Batman to his knees with his grip, oneshotting Nightwing and stonewalling hits from Azrael without Venom

Bane likely doesn't qualify for full 8-C in base but I have no problem believing he upscales to it with the Venom

 

[Transcending]

Bane without Venom is already treated as being > the likes of Bruce

I mean, the entire point of this thread was to show Batman scales to Bane without venom.

 

[Hellbeast]

Where did I say otherwise
I said Bane is > people who should prolly backscale from Bruce and upscales to an unknown degree when using Venom.

Bruce I can see being stronger then Bane but it's not to a huge degree by any metric

EDIT: Actually I might have to revisit this; just remembered Azrael is claimed to be superior to the whole Batfamily
I'll read over the Batman: Bane stuff and get back to ya'll

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Batman didn't defeat Bane off panel, the fight actually happened on screen in another story Batman Legacy. Batman: Bane picks up right were the final fight with Bane left off.

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah iirc Bruce blew up the building Bane was in so he’s not exactly fresh here

 

[Armorchompy]

peak human moment

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Yeah iirc Bruce blew up the building Bane was in so he’s not exactly fresh here

Correct, the fight is also very back and forth, in fact Bane is straight up killing Batman until he gets a flashback of his dead parents.

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Where did I say otherwise
I said Bane is > people who should prolly backscale from Bruce and upscales to an unknown degree when using Venom.

Bruce I can see being stronger then Bane but it's not to a huge degree by any metric

EDIT: Actually I might have to revisit this; just remembered Azrael is claimed to be superior to the whole Batfamily
I'll read over the Batman: Bane stuff and get back to ya'll

Azrael is physically stronger than the Batman family but not to a point where Batman and Jean Paul aren't relative, Batman has knocked him out cold in the past lol.