Are Either Of These Feats 1-A?

[Agnaa]

Note: This is a Q&A thread, not a CRT. Any implications of any answers will still need to be discussed and fleshed out before they're finally put into a CRT or applied to profiles.

1. Seeing uncountably infinite dimensions as fiction (this quote is about the uncountably infinite dimensions, not the seeing them as fiction part):

Unfortunately, the world is not dynamic. Everything's already over, I've already read it. All of this? It's just going through the motions. This is just a tiny subset of the world at large. I'd call it the 'real' word, but it's just as real as we are in here. The larger space that we're in… much larger, in fact, uncountably infinite expanses in uncountably infinite dimensions… we fill that space. And yet, here, we're discretised. Collapsed into words and nothing more, even if we're something so much greater. See, sometimes the infinite can be reduced to something simpler. Look here: ÔäÁ0 and ÔäÁ1 and ÔäÁ2 and so on. Simple, yes, but they can each contain the world. You can glimpse it, if you look hard enough. Just breathe in, breathe out. Think about infinity. Not just countable, but uncountable, and the dimension of it goes up into uncountability too. If you think you've really understood it, you aren't thinking hard enough. Sure, zoom past the pitstops. 5, 23, 3333. They're all beautiful, but so horrendously finite. Fly past it all and keep going and going. Minds have died wishing for a fraction of what I can see. So breathe slowly, and think about it. Really think about it, and the world seems like nothing. I hope you've been paying attention.''
	~ Acidverse​

2. Seeing the source of creation, which sees time as meaningless and space as a useless concept, as fiction:

A brilliant technicolor thought-form exploded with fiery intensity, ecstatically vibrating and dancing within and without Itself. Dazzling rainbows weaved into and through one another, singing a perfect cacophony that reverberated through the Formless aether. It sang, sang, sang in discordance, disordered and unrestrained, untethered and free, freedom in Its timeless state, a state of chaos. The Prima Materia. Time was meaningless to Something that never began and would never end. Space was a useless concept to that which was All and encompassed All. It had simply Been. Eternal in the truest of senses.''
	~ Paradigm Shift​

If these wouldn't count for 1-A, why not?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

yeah it is 1A.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that this is likely 1-A, but I am the wrong person to ask. It is better to involve DarkLK and Sera EX.

 

[Sera_EX]

The first point isn't 1-A by itself. The second point is 1-A, so yes it's 1-A.

 

[Agnaa]

I see, thanks.

 

[Hykuu]

>doesn't credit me for my scan

 

[Agnaa]

>doesn't credit me for my scan

>Asks credit for things he was too lazy to post himself

 

[Sera_EX]

Put in a rap song, jailbird.

 

[Agnaa]

Also to clarify, is the second quote 1-A for the being that did it and anyone that's stronger, or only 1-A for anything that sees that being as fiction?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Seeing the first as fiction is probably 1-A if the interaction is extremely explicit.

I'd actually disagree on the second being 1-A, as it's about the same as numerous things we've shot down before due to being too vague/having no mention of higher dimensions or states of being/just mentioning "time and space". I guess it could be 1-A if coupled with something like the first statement though, since that would clarify just what the concepts of "time and space" would encompass.

This is obviously just a kinda generic answer in a vacuum, though. Either sort of statement could be more or less impressive depending on other factors, but the first one is a lot more explicit.

 

[Lightbuster30]

So just to clarify: It's the viewing time and space as meaningless? (which supposedly contains infinite dimensions) Do we know that these dimensions are superior to lower ones?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Light Yes, they are

 

[Agnaa]

The first quote isn't directly seen as fiction, if you remember the narrative discussion, that statement's part of the narrative that's seen as fiction by two beings.

The second quote isn't coupled with something like the first statement.

 

[Sera_EX]

I'm still sure it's likely baseline 1-A. Maybe At Most 1-A (as rare as that is).

 

[Lightbuster30]

Seeing the first as fiction is probably 1-A if the interaction is extremely explicit.

How so? Viewing a dimension as fictional is usually treated as 1 higher dimensional difference. Why would it be any different just because the number of higher dimensions you view are infinite?

 

[Sera_EX]

It shouldn't be, that's the point. The difference between fiction and reality is only dimensional in a reality-fiction cosmology.

 

[Agnaa]

How so? Viewing a dimension as fictional is usually treated as 1 higher dimensional difference. Why would it be any different just because the number of higher dimensions you view are infinite?

There are two options in order to qualify for this tier: There should either be a qualitative superiority over infinite dimensions; or the superiority over the concept of dimensions (in general) should be clearly explained.

Reality-fiction difference is a qualitative superiority, and qualitative superiorities are lowballed to a dimension in most cases. But since 1-A requires a qualitative superiority, reality-fiction differences should be fine.

At least, that's how I understand it, and my understanding's probably wrong.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"The difference between fiction and reality is only dimensional in a reality-fiction cosmology."

That is, unfortunately, at least part of the cosmology, here. Which is why it's taken so long to properly figure things out.

 

[Sera_EX]

Then it's fair enough to suggest 1-A in this context.

 

[Hykuu]

>Asks credit for things he was too lazy to post himself

Who said Im not saving them for a thread smhhhh

 

[Holyhotsauce]

hey

that's pretty good

 

[Hykuu]

thank god I didn't let eggnaa leech the other scans

anyways here's more supporting evidence for the 2nd scan

""Countless explosions erupted in furious synchronicity. Universe upon universe upon universe upon universe. Space and time spontaneously generating simultaneously in each. There was sense and structure. Rules and constants. The endless, formless one had been subdued. The abyss had been occupied.

The Prima Materia. Shredded and deposited across all of these planes. Every piece at once a whole. It struggled in its prison. It raged and shook. It scratched at the bars. It tore at the seams. It clawed and corrupted. It lashed and gnashed and hated hated hated. It hated these things that had been carved from it. It hated with a passion the things that truly Were. Beyond all things, it hated the life that flourished."


The quote above explains how the Prima Materia was then shattered and scattered across every plane of existence (no, this doesn't debunk anything about it not being 1-A), this also further proves the concepts of space time in the quote are literally referring to every plane of existence, it also shows how the materia predates and transends rules and constants, space time and structure.

 

[Agnaa]

DarkLK said the following

If there really are infinite-dimensional structure which is regarded as something insignificant, then most likely it is 1-A. But I am not familiar with the context.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the input.

It would be good if you ask Azathoth to comment again as well.

 

[Agnaa]

I've done so.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks.

 

[Wardokman69]

Bump

 

[JackJoyce]

Seeing the first as fiction is probably 1-A if the interaction is extremely explicit.

I'd actually disagree on the second being 1-A, as it's about the same as numerous things we've shot down before due to being too vague/having no mention of higher dimensions or states of being/just mentioning "time and space". I guess it could be 1-A if coupled with something like the first statement though, since that would clarify just what the concepts of "time and space" would encompass.

This is obviously just a kinda generic answer in a vacuum, though. Either sort of statement could be more or less impressive depending on other factors, but the first one is a lot more explicit.

Is a High 1-B cosmology mandatory to have a Outerversal character? Because I've heard otherwise

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Seeing the first as fiction is probably 1-A if the interaction is extremely explicit.

I'd actually disagree on the second being 1-A, as it's about the same as numerous things we've shot down before due to being too vague/having no mention of higher dimensions or states of being/just mentioning "time and space". I guess it could be 1-A if coupled with something like the first statement though, since that would clarify just what the concepts of "time and space" would encompass.

This is obviously just a kinda generic answer in a vacuum, though. Either sort of statement could be more or less impressive depending on other factors, but the first one is a lot more explicit.

Is a High 1-B cosmology mandatory to have a Outerversal character? Because I've heard otherwise

no but the other one required deep metaphysical stuff like dao from masada

 

[Antvasima]

No, it is not mandatory, but the qualitative superiority over dimensions of time and space must be clearly clarified.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

So, if I understand correctly, have Azathoth and DarkLK accepted this as 1-A?

It should be useful to ask Sera as well though.

 

[Agnaa]

Sera has accepted it, Azathoth has rejected it, DarkLK has accepted it but warned that he doesn't understand the context and might be wrong.

 

[Antvasima]

Sorry, my bad about Sera.

I thought that Azathoth accepted one of the feats as 1-A, but not the other?

 

[Agnaa]

Seeing the first as fiction is probably 1-A if the interaction is extremely explicit.

I'd actually disagree on the second being 1-A, as it's about the same as numerous things we've shot down before due to being too vague/having no mention of higher dimensions or states of being/just mentioning "time and space". I guess it could be 1-A if coupled with something like the first statement though, since that would clarify just what the concepts of "time and space" would encompass.

This is obviously just a kinda generic answer in a vacuum, though. Either sort of statement could be more or less impressive depending on other factors, but the first one is a lot more explicit.

What I took from this (and talking to him on Discord), is that he thinks the first one would be 1-A if the interaction is explicit, which it isn't. And that the second one's less likely to be 1-A.

Sera seemed to think the second feat made it 1-A.

DarkLK only commented on the first feat, he accepted it but warned that he doesn't understand the context.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The iteration is explicit for a different character actually

 

[Agnaa]

Oh? Which character?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we probably cannot upgrade to 1-A without all of them giving positive informed answers.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Oh? Which character?

Mary Nakayama