Another minor block tales calc CRT

[Delusionaltx2]

So (after years of waiting) another calc for the prologue guys finally got a proved

Tree golem tries to be like the Temple Guardian

vsbattles.fandom.com

Tree golems are literal fodder that can be randomly encountered in the rugged rainforest, any inherit boss enemy including characters like red and blue should scale to or above them.

This is kinda consistent with the fact that random adventures like kyoko can also traverse the rugged rainforest with no issues despite these monsters just attacking you on sight meaning these adventurers would have to scale to the monsters in order to safely traverse the biome on their own. Red and blue as trained mercineries would be tasked with killing these adventurers as part of their job which would require them to be physically comparable to them to do so therefore red and blue (along with anyone who scales to them) are class 25 scaling to this calculation.

Pretty straightforward stuff

Agree: @SuperDino85 @Dalesean027 @Apex_Predator_GX @AthelChan

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[SuperDino85]

No argument from me. You got my vote.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

No argument from me. You got my vote.

counted (this will probably identify as a really straight forward CRT)

 

[Delusionaltx2]

also could you look at this CRT when ur ready?

Minor Block tales calc CRT: getting stuff accepted

Realized I should prob get the one calc that was looked at accepted before I add it to the verses page https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Delusionaltx2/The_player_dodges_the_ray_of_rah This should scale to the player's reaction speed for demo 4 Agree: @Celest_Void @SuperDino85...

vsbattles.com

 

[Dalesean027]

This is fine

 

[Delusionaltx2]

This is fine

Counted

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Agree.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Agree.

Counted

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Agree.

also could you look at this CRT when ur ready?

Minor Block tales calc CRT: getting stuff accepted

Realized I should prob get the one calc that was looked at accepted before I add it to the verses page https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Delusionaltx2/The_player_dodges_the_ray_of_rah This should scale to the player's reaction speed for demo 4 Agree: @Celest_Void @SuperDino85...

vsbattles.com

Need ppl for both of these

 

[AthelChan]

so true

 

[Delusionaltx2]

so true

You voting?

 

[AthelChan]

You voting?

obviously

 

[Delusionaltx2]

obviously

You should prob look at the other CRT as well (I sent it to you on the message wall)

 

[AppleMaker]

Agree with that, but not really sure about Red and Blue scaling to that feat

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Agree with that, but not really sure about Red and Blue scaling to that feat

why?

 

[AppleMaker]

why?

I remember someone analyzed that Red and Blue most likely would stop at Sentient Statue if they tried to complete 1st chapter. But if sentient statue isn't weaker than tree golem - I guess they could be upscaled from that feat

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I remember someone analyzed that Red and Blue most likely would stop at Sentient Statue if they tried to complete 1st chapter. But if sentient statue isn't weaker than tree golem - I guess they could be upscaled from that feat

Sentient statue is stronger than the tree golem though

He could fight a stronger JBT than the one that defeated red and blue so it wouldn't be an anti feat for them

 

[IDK3465]

I agree with the calc, but I think we can only reasonably scale this to characters from chapter 2 onwards. It’s a bit too assumptive in my eyes for us to assume all bosses are superior to all regular enemies regardless of what chapter they appear in, especially considering just how much stronger the player gets from chapter to chapter.

 

[AppleMaker]

I agree with the calc, but I think we can only reasonably scale this to characters from chapter 2 onwards. It’s a bit too assumptive in my eyes for us to assume all bosses are superior to all regular enemies regardless of what chapter they appear in, especially considering just how much stronger the player gets from chapter to chapter.

That's was also the reason why I thought Red and Blue won't scale to golems, but they appeared in 3rd chapter and by Delusionaltx2's reasoning I guess they could be upscaled

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I agree with the calc, but I think we can only reasonably scale this to characters from chapter 2 onwards. It’s a bit too assumptive in my eyes for us to assume all bosses are superior to all regular enemies regardless of what chapter they appear in,

The thing is though that with the bossess the story blatantly establishes when one boss is stronger than the other (for example compare ck with the ice dagger to base brad). The normal enemies don't really get that same treatment, they're kinda just there.

Plus, normal adventurers like Kyoko can traverse the rugged rainforest without issues, despite the fact that the mobs generally tend to attack anything on sight, and mercenaries like red and blue would need to be physically comparable to those guys in order to do their jobs.

especially considering just how much stronger the player gets from chapter to chapter.

The problem here, though, is that none of these enemies are actually established in lore to be a legitimate threat to them...like at all. The Komodo dragon boss is a very blatant example of this. In-game, the boss is actually somewhat challenging, but in lore, she straight-up confirms that she got stomped by us, so it wouldn't really matter how strong the player gets, since none of them would scale to begin with.

The only characters that legitimately have a case for scaling to the player in demo 2 are Brad and MAYBE Bigfoot (I plan to put him as a possibility)

In Brad's case, he's the final villain; he casually deflects an attack from them in a cutscene, and has the venomshank, which should be stronger than the ice dagger; it makes complete sense for him to scale to the player

With Bigfoot, we know the player at this point is somewhat greedy deep down when it comes to their weapons, as shown in demo 3, so when Bigfoot steals their new iron sword away, they seemingly just go for the kill instead of leaving him in a more weakened state, like they are shown to do against other enemies so bigfoot in his case may have potentially fought a bloodlusted JBT for a least a little bit making him downscale.

None of the other mobs have anywhere near the same amount of justifications that would scale them to JBT beyond just fighting him in game which on it's own dosen't do anything without at least some form of lore implications

 

[AppleMaker]

The problem here, though, is that none of these enemies are actually established in lore to be a legitimate threat to them...like at all. The Komodo dragon boss is a very blatant example of this. In-game, the boss is actually somewhat challenging, but in lore, she straight-up confirms that she got stomped by us, so it wouldn't really matter how strong the player gets, since none of them would scale to begin with.

I agree that she shouldn't be scaled to JBT, she also have a venom so it kinda negates JBT's durability and doesn't necessarily upscale her AP

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I agree that she shouldn't be scaled to JBT, she also have a venom so it kinda negates JBT's durability and doesn't necessarily upscale her AP

Actually, them harming JBT at all in-game without any lore implications to supplement it would just be game mechanics as well

 

[IDK3465]

The thing is though that with the bossess the story blatantly establishes when one boss is stronger than the other (for example compare ck with the ice dagger to base brad). The normal enemies don't really get that same treatment, they're kinda just there.

Isn’t it literally a mechanic that enemies from earlier chapters die and ragdoll when they try to attack you? Enemies are clearly ment to grow stronger from chapter to chapter.

Plus, normal adventurers like Kyoko can traverse the rugged rainforest without issues, despite the fact that the mobs generally tend to attack anything on sight, and mercenaries like red and blue would need to be physically comparable to those guys in order to do their jobs.

Ok, that’s actually a kinda fair point

The thing is though that with the bossess the story blatantly establishes when one boss is stronger than the other (for example compare ck with the ice dagger to base brad). The normal enemies don't really get that same treatment, they're kinda just there.

Plus, normal adventurers like Kyoko can traverse the rugged rainforest without issues, despite the fact that the mobs generally tend to attack anything on sight, and mercenaries like red and blue would need to be physically comparable to those guys in order to do their jobs.

The problem here, though, is that none of these enemies are actually established in lore to be a legitimate threat to them...like at all. The Komodo dragon boss is a very blatant example of this. In-game, the boss is actually somewhat challenging, but in lore, she straight-up confirms that she got stomped by us, so it wouldn't really matter how strong the player gets, since none of them would scale to begin with.

The only characters that legitimately have a case for scaling to the player in demo 2 are Brad and MAYBE Bigfoot (I plan to put him as a possibility)

In Brad's case, he's the final villain; he casually deflects an attack from them in a cutscene, and has the venomshank, which should be stronger than the ice dagger; it makes complete sense for him to scale to the player

With Bigfoot, we know the player at this point is somewhat greedy deep down when it comes to their weapons, as shown in demo 3, so when Bigfoot steals their new iron sword away, they seemingly just go for the kill instead of leaving him in a more weakened state, like they are shown to do against other enemies so bigfoot in his case may have potentially fought a bloodlusted JBT for a least a little bit making him downscale.

None of the other mobs have anywhere near the same amount of justifications that would scale them to JBT beyond just fighting him in game which on it's own dosen't do anything without at least some form of lore implications

I think you misunderstand me, I don’t believe regular enemies scale to the player, that’s for certain, the problem I have is assuming that regular enemies in a later chapter are still weaker than bosses in an earlier one. Let’s say a character who is initially 10-B stomps a 10-C ant and later on becomes 9-C and stomps a 10-B human, does that mean ants are comparable to humans? No, obviously not.

Of course, given the fact we know regular adventures can traverse and therefore fight against enemies within areas from chapter 2 does signify that they are at least comparable, but just basing them scaling purely on the fact one is a common enemy in a later chapter isn’t enough in my eyes

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Isn’t it literally a mechanic that enemies from earlier chapters die and ragdoll when they try to attack you?

They collapse yes but neither they die or not is just something decided in lore.

For example red and blue get collapsed but they're still alive in lore, just injured

Enemies are clearly ment to grow stronger from chapter to chapter.

Ehh not really, it's more like enemies get more versed from chapter to chapter.

Like you literally have enemies like flaming statue which is just sentient statue with fire

I think you misunderstand me, I don’t believe regular enemies scale to the player, that’s for certain, the problem I have is assuming that regular enemies in a later chapter are still weaker than bosses in an earlier one. Let’s say a character who is initially 10-B stomps a 10-C ant and later on becomes 9-C and stomps a 10-B human, does that mean ants are comparable to humans? No, obviously not.

Yeah I get what your saying there but the problem is that the enemies are never implied to get stronger beyond the bossess

Of course, given the fact we know regular adventures can traverse and therefore fight against enemies within areas from chapter 2 does signify that they are at least comparable, but just basing them scaling purely on the fact one is a common enemy in a later chapter isn’t enough in my eyes

So basically for the reasoning we should add the fact that regular adventures like kyoko (who mecineries like red and blue would scale to) can still traverse the place without issues despite the mobs attacking them on sight which would mean she would have to be able to fight them.

Should this be added to the reasoning?

 

[IDK3465]

They collapse yes but neither they die or not is just something decided in lore.

For example red and blue get collapsed but they're still alive in lore, just injured

Still, wether or not they die, the fact that enemies from earlier chapters get easily knocked out when one’s from later chapters don’t does signify an escalation in power to me.

Ehh not really, it's more like enemies get more versed from chapter to chapter.

Like you literally have enemies like flaming statue which is just sentient statue with fire

An enemy being a variant of another doesn’t mean it’s the same in terms of strength.

So basically for the reasoning we should add the fact that regular adventures like kyoko (who mecineries like red and blue would scale to) can still traverse the place without issues despite the mobs attacking them on sight which would mean she would have to be able to fight them.

Should this be added to the reasoning?

Yup

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Still, wether or not they die, the fact that enemies from earlier chapters get easily knocked out when one’s from later chapters don’t does signify an escalation in power to me.

Actually even if we look at demo 4, bandits despite collapsing don't die

An enemy being a variant of another doesn’t mean it’s the same in terms of strength.

That's a fair point, but the point I'm trying to make here is that if the narrative was trying to establish that the background enemies got stronger wouldn't it be stated or at least implied somewhere?

With flaming sentient statue the only thing that changes about it is that it has fire status now, there are no statements suggesting it's outright stronger, there aren't any feats we can tie into it, there's literally nothing suggesting it's that much different from normal sentient statue

Yup

Ok I'll add this to the reasoning then (I'm busy and on my phone rn though so gimme a min)

 

[IDK3465]

Actually even if we look at demo 4, bandits despite collapsing don't die

I’m not talking about the way the enemies get defeated at the end of a battle, I’m referring to how in the Overworld, if an enemy tries to battle you, they just get knocked away and ragdoll, and wether or not they die from this, it still shows that they are abundantly weaker than other enemies that actually can go into battle with the player.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I’m not talking about the way the enemies get defeated at the end of a battle, I’m referring to how in the Overworld, if an enemy tries to battle you, they just get knocked away and ragdoll, and wether or not they die from this, it still shows that they are abundantly weaker than other enemies that actually can go into battle with the player.

Are you talking about how in the post game when we're done with the story, enemies that try to approach us just get ragdolled away? (Or as I like to call it, we become more "lore accurate")

 

[IDK3465]

Are you talking about how in the post game when we're done with the story, enemies that try to approach us just get ragdolled away? (Or as I like to call it, we become more "lore accurate")

Yes (this isn’t just a post game thing btw, it happens at the end of every chapter, like, one you’re done with chapter 2 and go back to a chapter 1 area, all the enemies get knocked back when they try to attack)

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yes (this isn’t just a post game thing btw, it happens at the end of every chapter, like, one you’re done with chapter 2 and go back to a chapter 1 area, all the enemies get knocked back when they try to attack)

Isn't that just showcasing how much stronger we are while also fixing the problem with most games on how annoying it is when ur forced to encounter and fight enemies you don't want to fight? (Look at Pokemon for example)

 

[Delusionaltx2]

@IDK3465 Oh yeah forgot but just for clarification you agree now, right? (You just thought I had to add more to the reasoning yea?)

 

[IDK3465]

Isn't that just showcasing how much stronger we are while also fixing the problem with most games on how annoying it is when ur forced to encounter and fight enemies you don't want to fight? (Look at Pokemon for example)

Yes, it does indicate how much stronger the player is getting, but it also shows the comparative strength between enemies that don’t instantly get defeated and those that do

@IDK3465 Oh yeah forgot but just for clarification you agree now, right? (You just thought I had to add more to the reasoning yea?)

I’m more ok with it now, but I’m still kinda neutral about it

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yes, it does indicate how much stronger the player is getting, but it also shows the comparative strength between enemies that don’t instantly get defeated and those that do

Dosen't that also have more to do with the fact that the newer enemies come from a chapter you haven't finished yet?

I’m more ok with it now, but I’m still kinda neutral about it

ok then

 

[IDK3465]

Dosen't that also have more to do with the fact that the newer enemies come from a chapter you haven't finished yet?

ok then

From a game design perspective, yeah, that’s why you don’t need to fight enemies from earlier chapters. However, from an in-universe perspective, this also represents the overall escalation in power between chapters and how even regular enemies get more powerful and challenging to fight as the player goes from place to place, with enemies from earlier chapters being far weaker in comparison. Given how we lack any indication otherwise outside of certain later enemies being variants of others (which doesn’t inherently mean they’re the same strength-wise) and imo just makes sense intuitively that an enemy in a later chapter is stronger than one from a previous chapter, this should be assumed to be a canon part of the story

 

[Delusionaltx2]

From a game design perspective, yeah, that’s why you don’t need to fight enemies from earlier chapters. However, from an in-universe perspective, this also represents the overall escalation in power between chapters and how even regular enemies get more powerful and challenging to fight as the player goes from place to place, with enemies from earlier chapters being far weaker in comparison. Given how we lack any indication otherwise outside of certain later enemies being variants of others (which doesn’t inherently mean they’re the same strength-wise) and imo just makes sense intuitively that an enemy in a later chapter is stronger than one from a previous chapter, this should be assumed to be a canon part of the story

If we followed that logic then wouldn't red and blue still be stronger because they can fight bandits who can fight JBT without getting ragdolled? Bandits being in chapter 3 while tree golems being in chapter 2 meaning they should technically be stronger?