All For One vs. Ben Tennyson

[SuperKamiNappa]

Prime All for One, he can't steal Ben's powers.
Ben can't use Way Big, Atomix, Alien X, Feedback, Clockwork, or Ultimate forms. He can switch forms at will. No time limits for his transformations.

Speed Equalized

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

hmmm since where going with the 7-C only and speed equalized, I'd say AFO would get it, as I consider basically every time Ben won against mutated kevin to be some form of PIS, unless otherwise stated, Ben only has one power at a time (unless we count the combinator omnitrix thingy)

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Ben can undo the master code, giving him access to all the aliens. He has done so himself multiple times, but I don't know if EOS Ben knows the code.

 

[Kambings4life]

I think forms such as diamondhead,ghostfreak,echo-echo and a fully grown humungousar will be trouble, and ben has fought with beings who are also at least high 7-C and hurt them as well.swampfire would definitely pose some problems with his vines and fire,I'm not sure if big chill is 7-C or not because his page isn't made yet,but if he is,he could easily incapacitate all for one as well,and thanks to his ice powers.

@nedoiko I don't think its PIS,as a ben actually fought on par with ultimate kevin everytime they fought (with ben losing after a decently long fight) and ben only truly beat kevin using arguably one of his most powerful forms at the time.

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

this match needs a bunch more information, as well as Ben's profile, were not knowing many things, if he can use the ultimate control, or that little goop alien that gave him combined form attacks.

the way I'm going about this match right now is this, it wouldnt be bad to add notes on special standard assumption on ben's profile.

-Unless shown otherwise, the alien forms have AP, not DC (for example Rath, who is 7-C but I dont recall him destroying that large of a chunk of matter.)

-Ben has his most powerfull forms blocked, with this were going with the realitybending ones and the ones that are far too strong (Atomix,Clockwork and Alien X for example)

-Ben still has acces to power variable ones, but they cap at large town level (For example Feedback)

-Ben has only his base omnitrix set (no form combinations) but he has every non blocked alien at his disposal, the omnitrix wont pick aliens at random and no time limit.


Considering these rules, and the speed equalized, I take a look at the avaible aliens, and most of them have straightforward powers, some of them would be very troublesome (like you mention, Big chill, also ghostfreak, I also think thanks to it's speed, Pesky dust would be one of the most fearsome treats) but the direct power/strenght ones would be very uneffective thanks to impact recoil, also were using prime AFO, which wouldnt be blind but since we know no better, would have all the same quirks or more. If ben starts in character and picks a power-only form (like rath) Id give this to AFO. if he goes by something more tactical (lets say a 4/10 times, as he goes in series) then id give this to ben, tought with a way smaller chance

we're also not addressing the limitations of AFO thanks to verse equalization:

1-Would his forcible power activation work on the omnitrix, to make ben change into something else, like lets say, walkatrout?

2- Is power stealing ON for AFO?

3- If we leave it ON, would we turn off the whole "and the victimg enters a coma afterways" part?

I mention it since I thiiiink once fought with...I trink it was aggregor, and he got the powers of the alien he had turned into stolen from him, albeit with him still being able to use it due to how the omnitrix works, if this is the case, Ben could still fight but AFO would keep using him as a power pi├▒ata

 

[Kambings4life]

^ I agree with this,we need more info.

and @nedoiko,aggregor nah,it was against kevin when they were kids.But yeah,ben could still be able to transform,because it isn't his direct power,but the power stems from the omnitrix.

thing is,about the cappong out at high 7-C thing,so does AFO,and he's just likely high 7-C.while ben has 'at least high 7-C' forms like diamondhead,ultimate echo-echo and probably his other ultimate forms as well,but idk if ultimate forms are even allowed or if the OP wants just omniverse ben or something.

I'm not caught up with the bnha manga,but I recall all might and deku having the all for one power,and well,isn't it really just immense strength?? I mean I'm aware AFO has some hax,but if its power stealing,I mean like,ben has dealt with powerstealers before.does this powerstealing stack? like for example,if he steals rath's power,does it do nothing because he already has enhanced strength,or does it just add rath's strength to his own? I mean if the latter is the case,then yeah things'll get tough for ben,but due to him having so many aliens,the second he realises his powers are at risk of getting stolen,,he'll play it more carefully,maybe turn into something that dodge around a bit or end the fight like ghostfreak or big chill.

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

thing is,about the cappong out at high 7-C thing,so does AFO,and he's just likely high 7-C.

I'm not caught up with the bnha manga,but I recall all might and deku having the all for one power,and well,isn't it really just immense strength?? I mean I'm aware AFO has some hax,but if its power stealing,I mean like,ben has dealt with powerstealers before.does this powerstealing stack?

well were talking about prime AFO, current afo was damaged as heck and playing with several disadvantages, tought this is not to undermine All mights effort but he had to essentially use every last bit of his power to win.

and the power stealing does stack, he literally stacks several pwoers togetehr to create devastating effects (for example his current strongest attack mixes 4 different strenght enhancing powers with other 6-7 effects)

however i think the rules got restablished in the first post, since were going prime AFO, im going with him, I still think theres several aliens that because theyre not inmune to their own powers or could be hindered by them, could have a really hard time against the forcible quirk activation, a painful example would be ditto as all the clones receive damage, so AFO can reduce the efective ammount of usable aliens

 

[Kambings4life]

thing is,about the cappong out at high 7-C thing,so does AFO,and he's just likely high 7-C.

I'm not caught up with the bnha manga,but I recall all might and deku having the all for one power,and well,isn't it really just immense strength?? I mean I'm aware AFO has some hax,but if its power stealing,I mean like,ben has dealt with powerstealers before.does this powerstealing stack?

well were talking about prime AFO, current afo was damaged as heck and playing with several disadvantages, tought this is not to undermine All mights effort but he had to essentially use every last bit of his power to win.
and the power stealing does stack, he literally stacks several pwoers togetehr to create devastating effects (for example his current strongest attack mixes 4 different strenght enhancing powers with other 6-7 effects)

however i think the rules got restablished in the first post, since were going prime AFO, im going with him, I still think theres several aliens that because theyre not inmune to their own powers or could be hindered by them, could have a really hard time against the forcible quirk activation, a painful example would be ditto as all the clones receive damage, so AFO can reduce the efective ammount of usable aliens

ok,I get your opinion,and because even all might had to use all his effort to beat him,I'll admit that ben would have a crazy hard time against him,especially because the powers do stack.

about the aliens thing,I can't really think of any alien that would really be hindered by forcible quirk activation. firstly, we do not know if that ability even works on abilities that aren't quirks,such as the alien's abililties.Assuming it can,I can't really think of much it would do,like maybe big chill would start spewing ice,but he'd do that anyway,and humugousaur would maybe just be forced to grow to 60ft,which would be even more trouble for AFO.about ditto,that weakness seems to have disappeared since omniverse.

how does the quirk steal thing work anyway? again,thats assuming it works on abilities that aren't quirks.also,ben can easily just switch to another form the second he's put at a disadvantage in the fight,so the problem now is whether ben can hold out until he fgures out what form he needs to turn into to win

I think he can,as his other forms can definitely hold out.in terms of a physical fight,rath,fourarms and humungousaur are all high 7-C as well,and should be able to hold out until AFO starts whipping out the exotic abilities.at that point,ben would probably turn into something like big chill or swampfire,or even ghostfreak seeing as this is teen ben.if he goes diamondhead I also think he can easily just encase AFO in a diamond prison.

that being said,AFO winning is your opinion.and you have great reasons behind it,so..yeah

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

ok,I get your opinion,and because even all might had to use all his effort to beat him,I'll admit that ben would have a crazy hard time against him,especially because the powers do stack.

about the aliens thing,I can't really think of any alien that would really be hindered by forcible quirk activation. firstly, we do not know if that ability even works on abilities that aren't quirks,

how does the quirk steal thing work anyway? again,thats assuming it works on abilities that aren't quirks.

that being said,AFO winning is your opinion.and you have great reasons behind it,so..yeah

-About the abilities, both of them would work due to verse equalization since its part of standard battle assumptions (its like that deal of "genjutsu doesnt work on other franchises because it controls the chakra in the brain, and other franchises dont have chakra", but verse equalization requires that all abilities should work regardless of the verse, unless the character itself would prove resistant to them specifically (like lets say, X-men characters that have resistance to mind control)

-The forcible quirk activation can hinder several aliens, from the top of my head, Stinkfly (weak to his own poisons and flammable gases), Brainstorm (Exposes its weak point when it uses its power),the recent Overflow (shocks itself if it shoots water at something electric), Humungosaur (he can force him to stay in his smaller form). It would be even relatively easy for AFO to realize this kind of things, as his quirk Search gives him the ability to constantly monitor ben, his location, and know the weak point of each transformation he uses, countering even plans such as turning into smaller forms to hide (like pesky dust or grey matter) or ones with stealth abilities (gosthfreak,big chill or chamalien)

-about the stealing, As far as it's been shown, he simply grabs the person and sends them into a comma, stealing their powers.

and lastly, Of course, I think this more as displaying arguments, I do love me some ben ten even when I know many people who think it's bad, you have great reasons for ben winning as well! I'm just hanging from the fact that were using the caps and the equalized speed, otherwise ben 10 wins 10/10

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Overflow

His name is Water Hazard. Overflow is from the new shittier cartoon.

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

Overflow

His name is Water Hazard. Overflow is from the new shittier cartoon.

I know the new cartoon is shittier, tbh my favorite is still Omniverse, however, arent Water Hazard and Overflow different aliens? anyway, lets not derail the thread xvx

 

[The_Everlasting]

>Favorite

>Omniverse

U w0t m8

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Cough Ultimate Alien was the best Cough

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

>Favorite
>Omniverse

U w0t m8

At the very least you could try and put an argument about the thread instead of derailing it more, youre an admin, act like it >3>

And i don't know what's wrong with people every time I comment on my taste for omniverse, I just like it better than the others, primairly because of its art direction and character designs, Ive watched the entirety of the ben 10 franchise, the first series was good but too murky in style, somehting that later would fit better generator rex, Ultimate Alien had interesting plots and ideas, but concepts too ridiculous for the dark tone it had (not to mention the cheap and bland designs, like gwen looking like a blocky kim possible), and the ben 10 reboot... thats another topic. Omniverse had the art direction ben ten should always have had, its also the series with the most expanded worldbuilding and greatest ammount of likeable secondary characters.

If you wanna keep talking about the different opinions regarding the quality of the ben 10 franchise, i invite you two to make a thread about it somewhere else.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Nedo

I hoped the "U w0t m8" would let you know it's a joke.

Not something deserving of a paragraph of rebuttal. Lol.

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

@Nedo
I hoped the "U w0t m8" would let you know it's a joke.

Not something deserving of a paragraph of rebuttal. Lol.

People questioning my taste for omniverse trigger me really hard >3>

 

[Newendigo]

Os and AF, nuff said.

As for the match, i'm going with inconclusive, as stated the OP AFO can't steal Ben abilities, these will normally put Ben in advantage, but here is the thing.

Ben has several ways to put a fight and wi, to put a fight and loose, to one-shot AFO or to get stomped, these instance depends greatly in which aliens he select:

Fight and wi: If he select an alien versatile like Diamondhead, Chromastone, Echo Echo or some others like Ghostfreak, he can fight enough to overwhelm AFO.

Fight and lose: If he select some alien with very poor advantage like Fourarms, Humungosaur or Rath who only rely in physical strength, he will lose in a short fight.

OS AFO: If he select something like Pesky dust or Upchuck or even Upgrade , its game over for AFO.

Stomped: Any alien which is below the 7 Tier, this includes Heatblast, Wildmutt, Grey Matter, Ripjaws, XLR8 and others.

And this is if we're not taking to acount if Ben decides to change between aliens.

 

[GHG4589]

Stomped: Any alien which is below the 7 Tier, this includes Heatblast, Wildmutt, Grey Matter, Ripjaws, XLR8 and others.

I disagree with Grey Matter get stomped.

Don't understimated the alien that easily outsmarted the second smartest being in the universe, lol.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Grey Matter is like a walking PIS machine, especially given how almost anyone can just crush him in the palm of their hand like a rat but fail to do so. I mean when he is caught, his captor doesn't want to kill him. When he is actively being hunted down, he suddenly becomes unkillable.

 

[Davidsteel1]

So what I'm getting here is Greymatter is the batman of ben10

 

[Kambings4life]

ok,I get your opinion,and because even all might had to use all his effort to beat him,I'll admit that ben would have a crazy hard time against him,especially because the powers do stack.

about the aliens thing,I can't really think of any alien that would really be hindered by forcible quirk activation. firstly, we do not know if that ability even works on abilities that aren't quirks,

how does the quirk steal thing work anyway? again,thats assuming it works on abilities that aren't quirks.

that being said,AFO winning is your opinion.and you have great reasons behind it,so..yeah

-About the abilities, both of them would work due to verse equalization since its part of standard battle assumptions (its like that deal of "genjutsu doesnt work on other franchises because it controls the chakra in the brain, and other franchises dont have chakra", but verse equalization requires that all abilities should work regardless of the verse, unless the character itself would prove resistant to them specifically (like lets say, X-men characters that have resistance to mind control)
-The forcible quirk activation can hinder several aliens, from the top of my head, Stinkfly (weak to his own poisons and flammable gases), Brainstorm (Exposes its weak point when it uses its power),the recent Overflow (shocks itself if it shoots water at something electric), Humungosaur (he can force him to stay in his smaller form). It would be even relatively easy for AFO to realize this kind of things, as his quirk Search gives him the ability to constantly monitor ben, his location, and know the weak point of each transformation he uses, countering even plans such as turning into smaller forms to hide (like pesky dust or grey matter) or ones with stealth abilities (gosthfreak,big chill or chamalien)

-about the stealing, As far as it's been shown, he simply grabs the person and sends them into a comma, stealing their powers.

and lastly, Of course, I think this more as displaying arguments, I do love me some ben ten even when I know many people who think it's bad, you have great reasons for ben winning as well! I'm just hanging from the fact that were using the caps and the equalized speed, otherwise ben 10 wins 10/10

-ok on the verse equalization

-as for the forcible quirk activation,I agree that it would hinder brainstorm,but thats about it.stinkfly,as far as I know isn't weak to his gasses (the only time we see him using gas was when he was 4,and he wasn't bothered by being covered by it,thing is,this doesn't matter,as stinkfly probably gets stomped),and if it forcibly activates abilities,then I don't think it could force humungousaur to stay in 12ft form,as growing is his ability,so it should force him to grow.and yeah,his quirk search will prevent hiding,I don't really think that's something ben would do usually in the first place.the only aliens with stealth abilities I see him using are ghostfreak and big chill,and he'd be using them for their other abilites.

-well,does it work instantaneously? if so,then did all might beat him without coming into contact with him or something? I feel like people are really underestimating the physical forms here.I mean sure they'd be at a disadvantage once the hax is pulled out,but in terms of pure physical combat I think they could keep up with AFO.

-lastly,thanks! its been fun debating!

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

-as for the forcible quirk activation

-well,does it work instantaneously? if so,then did all might beat him without coming into contact with him or something? I feel like people are really underestimating the physical forms here.I mean sure they'd be at a disadvantage once the hax is pulled out,but in terms of pure physical combat I think they could keep up with AFO.

For the forcible quirk activation, Brainstorm would be the worst possible choice, as if its cranium is closed when it uses his power it shocks itself, AFO can abuse of this, Humungosaur doesnt only grow, he also shrinks to his normal size using his pwoer, which AFO can force. About Stinkfly, I'm counting what happens in the reboot as well, In a recent episode stinkfly was shown to be countered by his own poisons and flammable gases

 

[Kambings4life]

-as for the forcible quirk activation

-well,does it work instantaneously? if so,then did all might beat him without coming into contact with him or something? I feel like people are really underestimating the physical forms here.I mean sure they'd be at a disadvantage once the hax is pulled out,but in terms of pure physical combat I think they could keep up with AFO.

For the forcible quirk activation, Brainstorm would be the worst possible choice, as if its cranium is closed when it uses his power it shocks itself, AFO can abuse of this, Humungosaur doesnt only grow, he also shrinks to his normal size using his pwoer, which AFO can force. About Stinkfly, I'm counting what happens in the reboot as well, In a recent episode stinkfly was shown to be countered by his own poisons and flammable gases

-I don't think the reboot should be counted as its an entirely different continuity mildly based of the old one,and in the continuity we're using,stinkfly isn't affected by his own gas (but ben really has no business going stinkfly against a high 7-C enemy anyways xD)

 

[KittBetelgeuse]

-I don't think the reboot should be counted as its an entirely different continuity mildly based of the old one,and in the continuity we're using,stinkfly isn't affected by his own gas (but ben really has no business going stinkfly against a high 7-C enemy anyways xD)

well, most ben 10 villains, most notably vilgax, are 7-C, and he has used non 7-C forms

 

[Kambings4life]

hmm..yeah fair enough,but wasn't actually able to hurt vligax with all those forms,and could only fight him as fourarms and diamondhead

 

[Newendigo]

Benp.