Alien X speed downgrade?

[Zamasu_Chan]

On Galactic Gladiator's profile his speed is rated "Massively FTL" for this calc. However, it assumes that GG is the size of a galaxy, which is not true. Here, he's shown to only be slightly larger than a planetoid. It would make no sense for GG to suddenly grow in size, because in the next shot, he's in the same position as he was when he grabbed AX. If GG actually was the size of a galaxy, those Alien X clones wouldn't even be visible and because they'd be so small. If you eyeball it, it looks like he's hundreds of times AX's size. Even the planetoid GG fell into has no given size.

Unless there's an another speed feat I'm missing, he could be downgraded to "At least FTL" for being faster than the Aliens. Unfortunately

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

If GG’s calc is invalid there are some other options.

• AX moved galaxies at this speed, which is currently scaled to both his and GG’s Attack Speed. Since AX could dodge attacks from GG and vice versa it could be scaled to their general reaction/combat speed.
• Death Battle calculated AX creating a “galaxy-sized black hole” at MFTL.
• AX and GG flew across interplanetary distances during their brawl (which should probably be calced using the average distance between planets).
• Celestialsapiens should undoubtedly be superior to Chromastone, Vilgax, Aggregor, and Way Big

 

[Axxtentacle]

If there is another speed feat, it should be the justification, not this calc.

 

[Hasty12345]

Alien X exists

Zamasu-Chan: "It's downgrade time!"

In all seriousness though, I agree the speed scaling needs revised.

 

[Greenshifter]

... Just calc how big he with angsizing to increase accuracy and accept the frames being inconsistent? I mean this ain’t the first time that fiction has inconsistent frames, but what happened > what should have happened. Also there’s like no way in hell you can put multiple galaxies relatively close to the camera and each other and then say “perspective” makes it look like he’s galaxy-sized. Ben 10 also doesn’t have a habbit of showing galaxies like this at random times so a possible analogy to Star Wars also doesn’t add up.

So yeah blatant feat with inconsistent frames, sucks but yeah. Just need to correct the math a little I guess to get a more accurate result.

 

[Electro7101]

On Galactic Gladiator's profile his speed is rated "Massively FTL" for this calc. However, it assumes that GG is the size of a galaxy, which is not true. Here, he's shown to only be slightly larger than a planetoid. It would make no sense for GG to suddenly grow in size, because in the next shot, he's in the same position as he was when he grabbed AX. If GG actually was the size of a galaxy, those Alien X clones wouldn't even be visible and because they'd be so small. If you eyeball it, it looks like he's hundreds of times AX's size. Even the planetoid GG fell into has no given size.

Unless there's an another speed feat I'm missing, he could be downgraded to "At least FTL" for being faster than the Aliens. Unfortunately

I clamped GG's size with Sleepy on discord.
I want discuss it here as well, hold on.

Edits: phrasing.

 

[Electro7101]

You are trying to nuke this calc. via GG's galaxy size:

Spoiler

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I just have to prove they can't be the same size in both frames

Even if you ignore the intended frame of reference / context
There's very few perspectives that could make the left GG asteroid sized⠀and⠀maintain those optics:

Spoiler

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From⠀frame A,⠀GG is roughly on top of the white galaxy
There is no perspective that could make GG asteroid sized in⠀B⠀if he is roughly on top of it.

Spoiler

And it is possible AX's size continued growing:

Edits: phrasing.

 

[Greenshifter]

Seems like Zamasu got gg’d by Electro’s GG.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Hmmm. Though I do think assuming AX grew is nothing short of headcanon. I’ll wait to see what some staff think, if they even show up. I might even take DB’s calc into consideration.

 

[Eficiente]

Trying to say that GG was galaxy-sized is pushing it. Sizes based on things in the background can get really inconsistent in cases like this, this is nothing new, the priority is the info we 100% know, in this case GG's first size know, his size next to AX and the later size next to AX shown, all of which being consistent. The different portrays of how far away galaxies were from GG don't mean GG was growing in size off-screen, that's ridiculous, the perspective animated was just not perfect and we therefore ended up seeing galaxies at technically different distances from scene to scene.

 

[Eficiente]

And it is possible AX's size continued growing:

The text would seem to point out evidence for GG to keep growing, but there isn't, there he was getting his size reduced right before going back to normal when defeated.

 

[Greenshifter]

They zoom out more since GG was still the same size as before in his upper body, yet the pseudo-black hole takes more space on-screen.

 

[Greenshifter]

Trying to say that GG was galaxy-sized is pushing it. Sizes based on things in the background can get really inconsistent in cases like this, this is nothing new, the priority is the info we 100% know, in this case GG's first size know, his size next to AX and the later size next to AX shown, all of which being consistent. The different portrays of how far away galaxies were from GG don't mean GG was growing in size off-screen, that's ridiculous, the perspective animated was just not perfect and we therefore ended up seeing galaxies at technically different distances from scene to scene.

Does this planetoid seem to remotely make any sense to you Efi even if one pushes it with "perspective"?

 

[Axxtentacle]

I mean, the argument here is that he’s galaxy sized because of perspective, right? Why is a PERSPECTIVE that blatantly shows his giant form only being a little bigger than a planetoid being dismissed?

 

[Greenshifter]

I mean, the argument here is that he’s galaxy sized because of perspective, right? Why is a PERSPECTIVE that blatantly shows his giant form only being a little bigger than a planetoid being dismissed?

Because he was still growing in size clearly. It's not that it even matters, if you discount the growing itself, moving his hand at galaxy size also gives him MFTL+. (Also the argument of the opposition is based on perspective, my argument is based on what you see is what you get, just calc how big he is)

 

[Electro7101]

Trying to say that GG was galaxy-sized is pushing it.

It is not

Sizes based on things in the background can get really inconsistent in cases like this,

With all due respect what do you want then sir?
The animation of GG continued growth?

By stroke of luck the crew included enough POVs for me to clamp Galactic Gladiator's size this well.



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I would understand this degree of... reluctance if it was a character with a power like biological growth,
aka with some degree of simplistic logical limit to their abilities.

But Celestialsapiens can literally grow that big, that fast because they want to, it is definitely not outside the scope of their feats
so it really feels to me like the OP and you are nitpicking

 

[Eficiente]

Does this planetoid seem to remotely make any sense to you Efi even if one pushes it with "perspective"?

Yes, you got GG a bit bigger than that planetoid and galaxies somewhere in the background and maybe 1 below.

With all due respect what do you want then sir?
The animation of GG continued growth?

Quite simple; the proportions shown aren't 100% consistent, like in this case, and so we should not take at face value the shown portrayal of them and more so take the more well established info give.

I would understand this degree of... reluctance if it was a character with a power like biological growth,
aka with some degree of simplistic logical limit to their abilities.

But Celestialsapiens can literally grow that big, that fast because they want to, it is definitely not outside the scope of their feats
so it really feels to me like the OP and you are nitpicking

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter how he can or can't do the feat if he feels like it, I'm not saying that he can't, I'm saying that in this case, based on the context given in the feat, he didn't. Celestialsapiens being powerful and being able to do this and that doesn't matter for it.

You're using backgrounds to measure a given size despite how the distance from them and the characters we see being whatever and when we do outright see GG's size next to a planetoid, next to AX when he grabbed him and next to AX when he got free.

 

[Electro7101]

I mean, the argument here is that he’s galaxy sized because of perspective, right? Why is a PERSPECTIVE that blatantly shows his giant form only being a little bigger than a planetoid being dismissed?

I didn't dismiss it.
I even exported and stacked the frames so that you could see the depicted asteroid size despite the camera zooming out.

I just argued absurd on both scenes depicting the same size afterwards
Which I am sure other people can agree with.

Yeeting this calc requires both scenes depict Galactic Gladiator being the same asteroid size.
Which is what is being argued for here albeit veiledly.

Edit:
I even exported and stacked the frames so that you could see the depicted⠀size despite the camera zooming out.⠀↑↓TO:
I even exported and stacked the frames so that you could see the depicted⠀asteroid⠀size despite the camera zooming out.

 

[Electro7101]

I really want other staffs' opinion on this before my initial argument gets buried with new replies...
Eh, I guess I can always repost it later huh


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Let's do this bottom-up because I think you left the most important parts for last:

Irrelevant.

Sincerely it is not.
You have 2 perfectly sound scenes that only don't make sense when evaluated together.
The character in question is capable of doing both feats which⠀SHOULD⠀rule out it (either) being "pushing".

And yet you are still pushing (yes) for the worse one.

Yes, you got GG a bit bigger than that planetoid and galaxies somewhere in the background and maybe 1 below.

That's the thing
If you ever did any camera work for calcs.
In order for the planetoid to be planetoid sized in that setting you need it to be closer to the camera than the other objects.

If it is in Z line with GG in that image (which it is).
then a size comparison should be reasonable.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I’m sorry, but saying that he somehow grew to galaxy sized with THAT being your evidence, a slight camera zoom-out, is very weak tbh

 

[Electro7101]

I’m sorry, but saying that he somehow grew to galaxy sized with THAT being your evidence, a slight camera zoom-out, is very weak tbh

If you boiled down all my text to zoom-out hah then⠀YOUR⠀argument is very weak tbh

Edit: boil → boiled.

 

[Greenshifter]

I’m sorry, but saying that he somehow grew to galaxy sized with THAT being your evidence, a slight camera zoom-out, is very weak tbh

I assume you’re talking to me? In that case no the argument is that he went from galaxy-sized to even bigger off-screen. Same should have happened when he went from planetoid size to Galaxy-sized before.

 

[Eficiente]

@Electro7101 Dude, it doesn't matter, overthinking the realistic proportions displayed via math would only make sense if it was consistent, otherwise it needs to be ignored. Fiction does this all of the time and we have plenty of feats where the technical perspective shown is to be dismissed due to being contradicted.

@Greenshifter That is preposterous as we didn't see him grow any second time on screen, he had no reason to do so and he didn't degrow right before AX got free. It's just a headcanon.

 

[Electro7101]

@Electro7101 Dude, it doesn't matter, overthinking the realistic proportions displayed via math would only make sense if it was consistent, otherwise it needs to be ignored. Fiction does this all of the time and we have plenty of feats where the technical perspective shown is to be dismissed due to being contradicted.

@Greenshifter That is preposterous as we didn't see him grow any second time on screen, he had no reason to do so and he didn't degrow right before AX got free. It's just a headcanon.

Sir, respectfully, please reply to this ↓ message or wait until another staff gets involved.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/alien-x-speed-downgrade.111288/post-3519632

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm talking about the black hole itself growing.

 

[manu_zarri]

Disagree with the CRT FRA

 

[Starbrand_Fan]

I disagree with the notion that they should be downgraded to FTL. They should still be much faster than Chromastone’s flight speed, which is Massively FTL+. Not only that, according to Alien X’s profile Celestialsapiens in general easily cross interplanetary distances.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Disagree with the speed downplay FRA

 

[Greenshifter]

I think you meant downgrade .

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

The whole premise here is that GG is galaxy sized because of the white galaxy seen below. My issue is that GG's distance from the galaxy is not consistent. In the first and third shots can be excused because it makes him look galaxy sized. However, in the second shot, suddenly the galaxy is above his waist. Here we see the galaxy under his feet again but in the next shot, which happens to be the 4th image, the galaxy is nowhere to be seen under GG. As a matter of fact, if you look closely, you'll see the galaxy is behind the black hole. The galaxy goes from under his feet to behind him, then below him again but bigger, then behind the black hole. It has no consistent placement.

This is where my issue lies. We're not 100% sure if he's galaxy sized or if it's just bad perspective, due to inconsistency. Here, on the other hand, we have a measurable size and we don't have to assume GG or AX grew in size while they were just standing still.

It's not a big loss, Alien X has other feats (from what I heard) they just need to be brought to light.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

If GG’s galaxy feat is invalid there are some other options.

• AX moved galaxies at this speed, which is currently scaled to both his and GG’s Attack Speed. Since AX could dodge attacks from GG and vice versa it could be scaled to their general reaction/combat speed.
• Death Battle calculated AX creating a “galaxy-sized black hole” at MFTL.
• AX and GG flew across interplanetary distances during their brawl (which should probably be calced).
• Celestialsapiens should undoubtedly be superior to Chromastone, Vilgax, Aggregor, and Way Big

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Mav...

 

[Eficiente]

Just call any staff that may know when cases like this are to be dismissed in calcs and they will state what I believe is the obvious.

 

[Greenshifter]

the whole premise here is that GG is galaxy sized because of the white galaxy seen below

And because you can use angsize on the other galaxies to figure out his height regardless even if the galaxy below him wasn't there but aside from that, yes.

in the second shot, suddenly the galaxy is above his waist.

Nah, now THAT is perspective, I ain't the camera specialist but the second shot seems to be fairly consistent with the first shot since the galaxy spans further than the width of GG's body.

you'll see the galaxy is behind the black hole. The galaxy goes from under his feet to behind him, then below him again but bigger, then behind the black hole. It has no consistent placement.

The other galaxies are also turned, meaning we are looking at it from a different angle. However I will say that it seems that the galaxy suddenly being behind the black hole is an inconsistency.

This is where my issue lies. We're not 100% sure if he's galaxy sized or if it's just bad perspective, due to inconsistency. Here, on the other hand, we have a measurable size and we don't have to assume GG or AX grew in size while they were just standing still.

In every shot where the galaxies are visible, he is galaxy-sized, whether you calc it via angsizing, using the galaxy under him, whatever really, you'll always get something that's way bigger than a planet. Besides if he were still planetoid-sized then you'd see planets in the background such as when they fought at regular size.