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Aizen Sosuke: "Superiority"

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Nisemono96

Nisemono96

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Aizen's AP: "At least Moon level, likely higher via power-scaling (Superior to Ichigo)"

Aizen's Speed: "Kept up and outmaneuvered Yhwach in their fight."

This seems completely arbitrary. Not Aizen being Moon level, just his supposed superiority to Ichigo. I was wondering what evidence there is for this?

In his battle against SK-Almighty Yhwach, he was giving it his all to buy time, and he never once even injured Yhwach no matter what he threw at the Father of the Quincy.

As for him outmaneuvering Yhwach in their fight? Aizen had Yhwach under an illusion that distorted his senses, and even then Yhwach was able to consistently land blows on Aizen. Serious ones that bypassed his "At least Moon level, likely higher" Durability.

Yhwach had beaten Ichigo down, stolen his power and even then he was able to kill off Yhwach. Twice in succession, with both times requiring just a single attack when he was allowed a chance land them directly with his weakened True Bankai.

Why is Aizen ranked superior?
 
I've always wondered about this. He got a hole blown through his torso and his hand ripped off just from Yhwach punching him. Meanwhile, Ichigo tanked hits from Yhwach. Maybe it's because he still has the Hogyōku which makes him transcendental. But if we use this kind of logic Dangai Ichigo would be scaling to 5-C since he's transcendent.

But Aizen would still be At least 5-C too. But I dunno about him being superior to Ichigo.
 
Yea i've wondered about this too for a while. Aizen was barely able to even fight Ywhach, even with KS and was only able to fight Ywhach because of KS. If he was "superior to Ichigo", then Aizen wouldnt have needed to have Ichigo finish off Ywhach while he uses KS to distract him. He would have just finished Ywhach off himself and he has had plenty of chances due to KS being inflicted on Ywhach pre-almighty. Not saying Aizen isnt moon level but the justification makes no sense at all

@Burning Full Fingers

Aizen doesnt have the Hogyoku anymore it rejected him as his master at the end of the fight with Ichigo. If he still had it, he wouldnt have been made prisoner by the SS as he would have just stomped everyone there and escaped. In addition, Kisuke's seal wouldnt have kicked in either if the Hogyoku remained with Aizen.
 
Not really. He should still have it. No way he would have gotten so much stronger and have Regenerationn without it. Maybe he just lost his reactive evolution since he didn't evolve when being wrecked by Yhwach. Urahara's seal worked because Aizen got weaker.
 
Pretty sure it was because of him weaking and the Hogyoku rejecting him. Otherwise, if he really still had it and gotten stronger why not break the seal? And then go and stomp everyone in the SS? And then go kill the Soul King? Aizen would have no reason to stay sealed if he gotten stronger.

Besides, Kisuke himself directly stated that the Hogyoku no longer saw Aizen as its master so there's no reason to believe its still with him. Unless Aizen somehow forced the thing as his own, which is illogical to assume and shouldnt even be assumed as its never stated to be the case, the Hogyoku is not his anymore.
 
Being sealed with it doesnt mean Aizen can use it or master it. Otherwise he would have tried breaking the seal to escape.

In addition, the Hogyoku rejected Aizen at the end when he was sealed so just because its there with him doesnt mean the Hogyoku wants anything to do with Aizen from that point on.

So really whether he has it with him or not, it doesnt change a thing as he cannot use it and there's no logical explanation otherwise.
 
1. It was never mention or imply that he didn't have it. The same cannot be said for him having it.

2. It's never imply that he cannot breakout of the seal, on the contrary he remove all of his seals when Kyoraku when to see him after Kyoraku remove only one of them.

3. It was imply by Kyoraku and Aizen conversation that you cannot enter or exist the Muken dimension without the key.

4. If you're talking about when he was been sealed by Urahara, the explication is above.

5. The Hogyoku didn't reject Aizen. Already explain.

6. We're not sure if he can use it or not. Probably, not. But while been sealed his base form got stronger than when he fought Ichigo.
 
1. Dont see how this has to do with anything, as my last comment wasnt talking about him having or not having it, but not being able to use it regardless of the result

2. Even if he could break it out by the result in one being removed, that still proves Aizen can't break out on his own or else he would have broken free without needing to have the seal weakend in any way possible.

3. Dont see what this has to do with the topic either. But even so, even if Aizen couldnt leave, it would very well be better than sitting in a chair playing prisoner. Besides, given him breaking out at all, the SS would worry about him attempting to escape and would go try and lock him back up to keep things stable anyway, giving Aizen a chance to escape by taking advantage of them via KS. So no, he wouldnt need a key of any kind as the moment they would likely come to try and lock him back up, that would be Aizens ticket to freedom

4. Okay?

5. Refer to here . Urahara himself confirms it and saying the creator of the thing wouldnt know if it rejected Aizen is ridiculous.

6. He cant use it. Otherwise if he could, again, he would not have remained sealed as he would have attempted escape in any way that he could.
 
@AppleLord

If you are reading and watching the same Bleach as I am, then you'd clearly know that after Ichigo used the FGT, he had weakened Aizen to the point that he had been rejected by the Hogyoku. Him being weakened and having the Hogyoku reject him were the only things that allowed Kisuke's seal to work as it had.

As for him removing all his seals when Shunsui visited him in Muken, that never happened. It was an illusion presented to Shunsui to mess with him. Shunsui only released a few seals on Aizen, still leaving him quite bound. He remained sealed until Yhwach destroyed the chair and therefore the seals while Aizen had still been seated in it.

Aizen had tried to destroy the Chair with his "Transcendant" Reiatsu when he destroyed the black swarm that Yhwach unleashed on the SS. The Chair remained unharmed and Aizen had his powers further restrained by Mayuri to prove the effectiveness of the Seals Aizen was bound with.

Anyway whether Aizen has the Hogyoku or not is irrevelant to the issue I brought up, which is the fact that Aizen is stated to be "Superior" to Ichigo and such claims have nothing to support them as everything seems to point to the contrary.
 
Anime4Life2020 said:
1. Dont see how this has to do with anything, as my last comment wasnt talking about him having or not having it, but not being able to use it regardless of the result
2. Even if he could break it out by the result in one being removed, that still proves Aizen can't break out on his own or else he would have broken free without needing to have the seal weakend in any way possible.

3. Dont see what this has to do with the topic either. But even so, even if Aizen couldnt leave, it would very well be better than sitting in a chair playing prisoner. Besides, given him breaking out at all, the SS would worry about him attempting to escape and would go try and lock him back up to keep things stable anyway, giving Aizen a chance to escape by taking advantage of them via KS. So no, he wouldnt need a key of any kind as the moment they would likely come to try and lock him back up, that would be Aizens ticket to freedom

4. Okay?

5. Refer to here . Urahara himself confirms it and saying the creator of the thing wouldnt know if it rejected Aizen is ridiculous.

6. He cant use it. Otherwise if he could, again, he would not have remained sealed as he would have attempted escape in any way that he could.
Click to expand...
1. Not word a reply since has nothing to do with what i said.

2. That wasn't you're argument, and the reply is irrelevant to him using the Hogyoku.

3. Irrevelant. The chair is made from the same material as the Muken, and he wasn't able to break the chair.

4. Yep.

5. Urahara also at one point admitted that he didn't understood the true power of the Hogyoku. You also remember that the Hogyoku in Aizen's possession was made by him, and he feed it with the one Urahara made so it awaken before winter and Aizen's reiatsu which was double of a captain's.

6. Since when can the Hogyoku break seals or dimensions?
 
Nisemono96 said:
@AppleLord
If you are reading and watching the same Bleach as I am, then you'd clearly know that after Ichigo used the FGT, he had weakened Aizen to the point that he had been rejected by the Hogyoku. Him being weakened and having the Hogyoku reject him were the only things that allowed Kisuke's seal to work as it had.

As for him removing all his seals when Shunsui visited him in Muken, that never happened. It was an illusion presented to Shunsui to mess with him. Shunsui only released a few seals on Aizen, still leaving him quite bound. He remained sealed until Yhwach destroyed the chair and therefore the seals while Aizen had still been seated in it.

Aizen had tried to destroy the Chair with his "Transcendant" Reiatsu when he destroyed the black swarm that Yhwach unleashed on the SS. The Chair remained unharmed and Aizen had his powers further restrained by Mayuri to prove the effectiveness of the Seals Aizen was bound with.

Anyway whether Aizen has the Hogyoku or not is irrevelant to the issue I brought up, which is the fact that Aizen is stated to be "Superior" to Ichigo and such claims have nothing to support them as everything seems to point to the contrary.
Click to expand...
No. It was explain. Urahara wasn't the one fighting Aizen nor feeling what Ichigo felt during their battle, Urahara didn't argue either.

http://www.mangahit.com/bleach/422/14

http://www.mangahit.com/bleach/422/15

Since when can illusion 's destroy someone's hands with reiatsu? Aizen was free and Kyoraku told him to seat on the chair to be seal again before going outside, he was sealed again. After Yhwach destroy the chair Aizen was fighting freely of seals, the only seal put on him was the chair.
 
Ichigo stated an opinion based on what he experienced, it is not some great fact and Kisuke not replying is not indicative of Ichigo being correct. Because regardless of how it happened, the Hogoku stopped responding to Aizen and he could nolonger draw on it's power.

If you recheck the chapter, you'd notice the Shinigami lose their fingers when they approached the Seated/Sealed Aizen. His illusory form caused no injury. To clarify, Aizen used his Reiatsu to disintegrate their fingers.
 
Exactly. KS doesnt disintegrate anything and frankly it doesnt need to. Reiatsu, when far stronger leveled Reiatsu is compared to far weaker ones, the weaker ones get completely erased.

For example, remember when Aizen walked passed that human man in Karakura Town? He disintegrated or erased him just by walking past him
 
And Kisuke invented the Hogyoku, and Aizen admitted the man is smarter than him. Like I said regardless of whether or not the Hogyoku rejected Aizen or it reacted to some unspoken desire of Aizen's to be normal, point is he cannot utilize the Hogyoku any longer,

He is standing I give you that, but only after Shunsui removed some seals. Then Aizen is bound into the chair after murderizing those fingers with his Reiatsu,

Just like that, I will not bother discussing that topic any longer either. Continue if you want, but it isn't relevant to the actual topic.
 
Kisuke invented a Hogyoku, but Urahara been more intelligent doesn't change the fact that Aizen also invented his own Hogyoku capable of eating Kisuke's Hogyoku.

Thank You, for acknowledging that i was right.
 
I don't see a need for Aizen to be down graded per-se, as he is at least as strong as he's been portrayed to be which should more or less what he is rated at... However he is not superior to Ichigo. This isn't coming from a place of a fan's preferential ideals, Aizen just has literally shown nothing in regards to being superior to Ichigo in terms of AP or any other stat.

Aizen's superiority is a claim without any real basis, and only creates a false edge for Aizen that he should lack.

Basically if anything I believe Ichigo should be rated as being superior to Aizen, considering he has done the one thing Aizen couldn't. Harm Yhwach, and beyond that Kill him. Twice over.
 
I reworded Aizens AP section.

In his battle against SK-Almighty Yhwach, he was giving it his all to buy time, and he never once even injured Yhwach no matter what he threw at the Father of the Quincy.

If he was giving it his all bankai would of been nice. Though he wasn't just buying time, he was trying to get Ichigo a free shot at Yhwach by taking hits getting his guard dow

As for him outmaneuvering Yhwach in their fight? Aizen had Yhwach under an illusion that distorted his senses, and even then Yhwach was able to consistently land blows on Aizen. Serious ones that bypassed his "At least Moon level, likely higher" Durability.

Yhwachs Ap is At least Planet level. Aizens dura is for Yhwach casual Ap which he has tanked.

The only thing Aizen did was change his appearances with KS
 
"If he was giving it his all bankai would of been nice. Though he wasn't just buying time, he was trying to get Ichigo a free shot at Yhwach by taking hits getting his guard down."

So all he was doing was just half-assing and stalling for Ichigo to land the blow? That's what you believe? If so that insinuates Aizen doubts that he could actually harm Yhwach, nevermind kill him. Thanks for the edit.

"Yhwachs Ap is At least Planet level. Aizens dura is for Yhwach casual Ap which he has tanked."

Tanked? When? Do you mean when Yhwach annihilated the Chair Aizen had been bound to? Because all these,

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

Show Aizen spilling blood and displaying the various wounds Yhwach bestowed upon him.
 
You misunderstand. I don't think he was half-assing it at all. what I mean is he was being very cautious of not letting Yhwach know that Renji and Ichigo weren't actually there by actually being the person that Yhwach was thinking he hit. What other purpose would he have taking the hits for no reason? Every other time he has used KS to conjure a imaginery body to take the hits. He didn't do this with Yhwach due to being wary of his power and the chance he may discover it's a illusion.

Infact it's probably his greatest showing off of his battle intelligence in the manga, he triple faked out Yhwach, which is god dam impressive.
 
Okay last post of the night.

I am aware he was taking the hits to help fool Yhwach, however this is isn't about Aizen's intelligence, as the points of the discussion were on the topic of Aizen's AP and Speed. It isn't necessarily hard to out manuever someone when you control what they are seeing, however even with that being the case Yhwach had no issue in keeping up regardless and dealing several severe injuries to Aizen, even considering the possibility that was all just Aizen was purposely taking the hits to keep up the fascade of his illusion, it still meant he feared Yhwach seeing through him and his attempt to stall for time.

If anything it all speaks of Aizen's desperation.
 
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