Adult Sasuke's Attack Potency

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

Saying Sasuke is moon level with the SOSP Seal is rediculous, there's no proof it even used their chakra to do that. In Naruto the Last 100 fodder ninja had so much latent Chakra they could create a Cannon so powerful that it could teleport and destroy the Moon. Naruto, in just KCM, goes on to power up the entire Shinobi Alliance by over 3x their normal Chakra reserves. There were over 80,000 Shinobi at the strart of the war, and many Platoons of Shinobi took hardly any casualties from their battles with many still surviving afterward. Even if you say only 1/10th the Shinobi survived, and Naruto amped 8,000 Ninja Including ALL Kage and Kage Level fighters you'd get way beyond Moon level chakra potency for just KCM Naruto. This is backed up by the fact that Kaguya, who's basically a humanized 10 Tails, has so much Chakra she can create an Orb capable of encasing and Annihilating an entire Space Time large enough to hold a planet and a moon in the background. Also keep in mind that when Kaguya absorbed the Shinobi forces chakra it wouldn't even be 8% of her power, as even HALF of the Ninetails could amplify each shinobi by 3x. (It takes more chakra to make a TSO than a Bijuu Bomb keep that in mind as well) Moon Level is simply downplay. Period. Maybe stop overlooking Power Scaling for the Series?

It was also stated that Sasuke blatantly would've rivaled PRIME Hagoromo with his Susanoo, the same Hagoromo that took on Kaguya, but WITH a Juubi and possibly Tomoed Rinnegan. Sasuke also took on Kinshiki who was also stated to be able to crack planets, which is consistent with Kaguya's feat, which is also Backed up by Kakashi stating that the dimension would be gone if they didn't stop her.

I can back all of this up if I have to, but I don't know how this forum works and I'd rather not hunt for scans if it'll just be deleted.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Arent you that guy from Youtube?

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

Arent you that guy from Youtube?

No.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Naruto and Sasuke together were calculated to be of Small Planet level. That 100 fodder ninja together can destroy a moon seems like a massive Plot-Induced Stupidity Outlier, given that they have never been able to perform anywhere near such feats individually.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

Its not PIS or an outlier actually, what people forget is that the fodder where pooling their chakra together for several hours during an unspecified time of day to an unpecified time of night. And it was only at night when it reached 100%.

I.E. Prep. You can't just scale them to that. You can get the same thing in Bleach, DBZ, etc. If 2 town level individuals pool their energys together for several hours, you'll eventually get City Level energy or more, etc. Not to mention its unknown whether they took turns pooling with other Ninja. This is has been shown time and time again in Naruto since part 1.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

To be fair, there are 2 different types of Chakra Cannons and this info is coming directly from the Naruto Wiki.

The cannon they actually shown to use was a cannon that was designed to destroy fragments of the moon that were falling down to earth.

The cannon they were gonna use but never shown to use it to destroy the moon is stated to be able to blast targets to "another dimension".....

IDK if this helps or anything. Just thought I should mention it.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

This has been brought up before and it's not going to be accepted so it's best to drop it.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

I think that Naruto and Sasuke together were calculated to be of Small Planet level. That 100 fodder ninja together can destroy a moon seems like a massive Plot-Induced Stupidity Outlier, given that they have never been able to perform anywhere near such feats individually.

Abundant levels of chakra are consistently that massive in power. Kaguya absorbing the Alliances power and casually moving to Planet+ with ETSO is proof of that. Kinshiki is also stated relative. Therefore it's not some absurd outlier.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

Its not PIS or an outlier actually, what people forget is that the fodder where pooling their chakra together for several hours during an unspecified time of day to an unpecified time of night. And it was only at night when it reached 100%.
I.E. Prep. You can't just scale them to that. You can get the same thing in Bleach, DBZ, etc. If 2 town level individuals pool their energys together for several hours, you'll eventually get City Level energy or more, etc. Not to mention its unknown whether they took turns pooling with other Ninja. This is has been shown time and time again in Naruto since part 1.

Irrelevant considering Naruto casually shat out over 240x the amount of energy an entire group would be with a flick of his hands. Also, can you please prove that they were swapping groups? Did you also forget that even TSUNADE solo could heal the entire leaf village and Naruto amped her as well?

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

Where is the proof the Chakra canon just uses that amount of chakra and doesn't work like breaks in a car? The statement about Kinshiki implies splitting universes, that's either hyperbole or BS. No shit an ETSB is harder to make, it's a much more powerful jutsu, that's why it can be used to perform feats like that. On top of that, ETSB is just hax, it wouldn't even scale to her AP. Naruto and Sasuke being Moon level+ is beyond generous considering that Chibaku Tensei, in no way shape or form, scales to AP.

It's referring to planets or something relevant to Kaguya's dimension. Which is NOT BS considering Kaguya, his rival or inferior, could OBLITERATE her "Worlds" as well. It's a jutsu that requires raw chakra, the TSO require more chakra and Kaguya could make it bigger as well. The ETSB is Hax but it WOULD scale to her AP, reason being that it takes more energy to create an ETSB than a Bijuu Dama, meaning if she poured all that energy into a Bijuu Dama, she could literally create a Dimension sized Bijuu Dama, are you implying that's not planet level simply for being a different Jutsu? Chibaku DOES NOT scale to Naruto and Sasuke, I don't know who thought that was a good idea.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

To be fair, there are 2 different types of Chakra Cannons and this info is coming directly from the Naruto Wiki.
The cannon they actually shown to use was a cannon that was designed to destroy fragments of the moon that were falling down to earth.

The cannon they were gonna use but never shown to use it to destroy the moon is stated to be able to blast targets to "another dimension".....

IDK if this helps or anything. Just thought I should mention it.

I've met this confusion before.

However, Raikage says it will Teleport AND Destroy the moon. Trust me man, I've been looking into this ever since the movie came out.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

This has been brought up before and it's not going to be accepted so it's best to drop it.

Yet you accept a Chibaku Tensei Scale? So you're saying I should doubt this sites credibility then?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

....Okay

 

[Jonathanlighter]

are you suggesting that sasuke should be planet level

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

are you suggesting that sasuke should be planet level

In AP

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

From what I'm getting, BM Naruto should be massively upgraded?

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

At least in Raw Attack Potency. There's no way you can amp 8,000 Jonin level ninja and Kage, the same Ninja who a small group of can create a Moon Obliterating Cannon, and can Power Kaguya to Planet+ and still only be like Mountain level. That just logically makes ZERO sense.

 

[Jonathanlighter]

the thing is, this sounds more like speculation. even though it logically makes sense, its still just speculation, instead of an actual statement or a feat. i doubt the writers were actually thinking about all this. naruto amping the ninja alliance happened way before the last even existed, so i doubt kishi even planned to make the alliance that strong, to the point where they can destroy the moon. it seems like a coincidence. but im not entirely against this.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

the thing is, this sounds more like speculation. even though it logically makes sense, its still just speculation, instead of an actual statement or a feat. i doubt the writers were actually thinking about all this. naruto amping the ninja alliance happened way before the last even existed, so i doubt kishi even planned to make the alliance that strong, to the point where they can destroy the moon. it seems like a coincidence. but im not entirely against this.

They were clearly thinking "Hey Kaguya can destroy a planet" when Kaguya stated she was going to wipe out a Planet+ Time Space, Kakashi then confirms this by saying "We won't be able to return to here (Planet) if that gets too big" and then have a GUIDE reconfirm this lol. Then have the Raikage rub it in your face repeatedly that he is going to blow up the moon, then have Toneri casually gut the moon like it's nothing and Naruto tanks it in Base form.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

We generally do not accept the guidebooks due to its hyperbole. We do at least consider them though.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

We generally do not accept the guidebooks due to its hyperbole. We do at least consider them though.

The Guidebooks only support the calcs I've already laid on the table. So yes, they are heavily supporting me.

 

[Jonathanlighter]

seth, i was wondering what you thought about this. i've noticed that kaguyas ETSB was not only going to destroy everything in the dimension, but she was going to destroy the dimension itself, including the space time of that dimension, then she was going to recreate an entirely different dimension. isnt that a 4 dimenional feat? destroying space AND time.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

seth, i was wondering what you thought about this. i've noticed that kaguyas ETSB was not only going to destroy everything in the dimension, but she was going to destroy the dimension itself, including the space time of that dimension, then she was going to recreate an entirely different dimension. isnt that a 4 dimenional feat? destroying space AND time.

The Dimension is not directed connected to the 4D Universe. But it would've destroyed Time Space on a scale for what it's worth.

 

[Dark649]

These things are menzioned in the Discussion Rules, which are to be considered.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

These things are menzioned in the Discussion Rules, which are to be considered.

The Scan thing?

 

[Dark649]

Please do not use Naruto databook descriptions or statements from the manga about the Juubi, or otherwise, to attempt to upgrade the verse. These sources are typically not consistent and/or hyperbole and thus their contents are questionable at best.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

Please do not use Naruto databook descriptions or statements from the manga about the Juubi, or otherwise, to attempt to upgrade the verse. These sources are typically not consistent and/or hyperbole and thus their contents are questionable at best.

Umm Excuse me? I'm using them as supporting evidence. What's so inconsistent about the way I'm using them, did you not even read the post?

Kaguya IS Planet+ with ETSO, thats a fact.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'd watch your tone if I were you.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

I'd watch your tone if I were you.

?????

 

[Reppuzan]

@Seth

The same Databook says that Madara can destroy anything in the universe, Temari can blow away the entire universe, and that Light Fang is actually lightspeed despite being an application of Storm Release.

The statements tend to be extremely hyperbolic and we can't take it seriously or cherry-pick statements to suit one particular side of an argument without getting the full context.

 

[Jonathanlighter]

@Seth
The same Databook says that Madara can destroy anything in the universe, Temari can blow away the entire universe, and that Light Fang is actually lightspeed despite being an application of Storm Release.

The statements tend to be extremely hyperbolic and we can't take it seriously or cherry-pick statements to suit one particular side of an argument without getting the full context.

just because there are some hyperbole in the databook doesnt mean EVERYTHING in the databook is a hyperbole. are you implying that everything in the databook is hyperbole, just because you found like 2 or 3 (obviously) hyperbolic statements?

 

[Joseph619]

just because there are some hyperbole in the databook doesnt mean EVERYTHING in the databook is a hyperbole. are you implying that everything in the databook is hyperbole, just because you found like 2 or 3 (obviously) hyperbolic statements?
You allow the hyperbole databook and fanboys will use to to try to upgrade Madara. The wiki doesn't also use Dragon Ball databook for similar reasons. Databooks are only used when there's no other way

 

[Reppuzan]

@Jonathan

We can't cherry-pick statements we like to just to support a particular point of view. The databooks have shown considerable artistic license and it's unreasonable to take their statements at face value when a great number of them are just to hype characters up in a way that's contrary to their actual feats.

 

[Joseph619]

Yata Mirror databook is also hyperbole

In face of god's attacks, all attacks, whether material or astral body, ninjutsu or physical, lose their meaning

So let's upgrade Itachi durability to 3-A now? Then we have Raikiri's entry which can cut through anything smh

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

If you guys actually pick up a Databook you'd know that only the tag lines contain those Hyperbolic statements, not the actual description of a techniques.

Even then, to simply write off the entire thing even if Majority of it isn't contradicted is laughable. Not that anything im saying here changes anything. Its contradictory as well considering there are a number of occasions in which Databook statements have been accepted such as in the Case of Limbo for example.

Personally, it makes more sense to use the Databook for Jutsu and Feats unless the Manga contradicts a specific Jutsu. But that's my 2 cents.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

If you guys actually pick up a Databook you'd know that only the tag lines contain those Hyperbolic statements, not the actual description of a techniques.
Even then, to simply write off the entire thing even if Majority of it isn't contradicted is laughable. Not that anything im saying here changes anything. Its contradictory as well considering there are a number of occasions in which Databook statements have been accepted such as in the Case of Limbo for example.

Personally, it makes more sense to use the Databook for Jutsu and Feats unless the Manga contradicts a specific Jutsu. But that's my 2 cents.

I've provided arguments without the Databook, the Databook in this case only supports my arguments.

This Wiki is really showing it's unreliable. I might have to bring this up in the future.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

Yata Mirror databook is also hyperbole
In face of god's attacks, all attacks, whether material or astral body, ninjutsu or physical, lose their meaning

So let's upgrade Itachi durability to 3-A now? Then we have Raikiri's entry which can cut through anything smh

How is Yata Hyperbole? It's only been shown for like, a few seconds lol. It's an astral weapon, you need to find contradicting evidence.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

@Seth
The same Databook says that Madara can destroy anything in the universe, Temari can blow away the entire universe, and that Light Fang is actually lightspeed despite being an application of Storm Release.

The statements tend to be extremely hyperbolic and we can't take it seriously or cherry-pick statements to suit one particular side of an argument without getting the full context.

The headers ARE Hyperbole, HOWEVER when it goes into details about certain jutsu's it's not usually using Hyperbole.

There's a difference between a flashy character intro and an actual Jutsu Description.

Madara's light fang is a Sage Art which uses Nature energy to amplify his attacks, meaning he took literal light to make the light fang, just how Sasuke can take lightning etc. Storm Release doesn't actually mean a physical Storm, I've seen no evidence for that.

Please debunk my post or concede, thanks.

 

[SethIsNotTheProgrammer]

just because there are some hyperbole in the databook doesnt mean EVERYTHING in the databook is a hyperbole. are you implying that everything in the databook is hyperbole, just because you found like 2 or 3 (obviously) hyperbolic statements?

You allow the hyperbole databook and fanboys will use to to try to upgrade Madara. The wiki doesn't also use Dragon Ball databook for similar reasons. Databooks are only used when there's no other way
I gave an alternative calc to the databook that supports the Databook is NOT hyperbole in this scenario, why are you ignoring that?

 

[Jonathanlighter]

i also find it absurd to ignore EVERYTHING in the databook just because there are a couple hyperboles. So basically, EVERY single piece of information in the databook has to be 100% accurate and non hyperbolic in order for it be "legit"? when they write things like "temari being able to blow away the universe" or "madara destroying the universe with PS", its CLEARLY just there for flashy intros and to make the characters seem cool and stuff, whereas information that seth is getting from the databook are actual legitimate information. It should be very easy to differentiate the two. Theres a clear difference between hyperboles (that are only there to make the characters look cool) and actual information. You guys really think people make databooks just to put a bunch of hyperbolic statements, with 0 true statements? im not trying to sound rude or anything, i respect everyone's opinions.