About size and its relation to speed

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm not claiming that he can't move at MFTL+ speeds, or do functions at MFTL+ speeds. I'm claiming that just because someone is the size of a galaxy, doesn't mean that they can, for example, punch a sandbag more times than Superman (N52) can.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No, but the speed of a single one of their punches would likely be far superior than Superman's.

 

[LordXcano]

Which is the crux of the thing here. Gorrl, if he has feats of moving, can be assumed to be MFTL+ speed, and his attacks would far outpace N52 Superman. But that doesn't mean he could dodge an MFTL+ attack coming from just 10 meters away, or even perceive such an attack moving at him.

Gorrl could fight another Gorrl-sized being at MFTL+ speeds, but he'd only need to react at regular human intervals to dodge hits and such.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I agree with that entirely, and always did. If I didn't put that in the OP then I'm sorry. My intention is that large characters shouldn't have the reactions to do multiple attacks in the timeframe that the speed we're giving them allows. Amitabha's punch would screw over Flash, but if he somehow avoided it, Amitabha shouldn't be able to avoid speed steal because he hasn't shown reactions to said speed. This is just an example

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Agreeing with Xcano, DontTalk and Gwyn. Sorry if my point has been repeated many times in the thread already but I'd like to get it across either way.

When investigating feats which involve two light-year-tall mechs duelling it out, we still have to consider speed, distance and time; how it applies to the pilots of these mechs. Sure the attacks themselves are lightspeed, or perhaps even MFTL+ but the amount of distance which needs to be travelled makes the timeframe small enough so the pilot can successfully apply evasion tactics or whatever. Even if he did have human reaction speeds. This applies to more than just mechs by the way.

 

[Aparajita]

Agreeing with DT, Xcano, AMM, and Gwyn here.

I'll use TTGL as an example. If two Galaxy-Sized Mechs are fighting, then you don't have to be MFTL to react to their attacks, because it's revelent to your perception, like how a car looks faster when it's right beside you than when it's coming down the road.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that the issue seems to have been settled then. Ridiculously large size translates to MFTL+ combat/movement speed, but not automatically reflexes.

However, I am not sure what we should do about it? Is anybody interested in searching for these characters and placing "Unknow reflexes" into all of their speed sections?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think this is just something that people should be aware of, and indeed are instinctly understanding of, when it comes to discussions.

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm just rather confused how someone can have reflex speed lower than their combat speed, given that our definition for it is as follows:

Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed.

Does that mean that a revision is in order?

 

[Antvasima]

I do not know. Does anybody have any suggestions for a better wording of the explanation sentence?

 

[LordXcano]

Swap "speed at" for "timeframe in"

 

[Antvasima]

@LordXcano Okay, will do.

 

[Lina_Shields]

When you see two characters, one of them larger, and one of them smaller, the first thing you notice is that the larger fighter would be able to cover more distance per movement in comparison to the smaller person, who would be able to cover less distance per movement. Now, the main question that needs to be answered is

At what distance are the said movements/attacks coming from?

We will use two examples in this case. One would be a Kaiju, and one would be an ant.

For example, we have a character, such as the Kaiju (giant monster), who would be around 50m in height. Let's also say that the Kaiju is able to move its own body length/height, or around 50m/s. We will label this term as velocity. A diagram has been provided for this below.

Kaiju vs Ma
Find the time it takes for Kaiju's attack to reach the person in question. The variables have been listed below.

• Kaiju attack speed, or Velocity = 100 m/s
• Distance between Kaiju and person = 50 metres
• Time = X

From the above known variables, we know that

• Time = Distance/Velocity
• Time = (50m)/(100m/s) = 0.5 second.

Thus, we can conclude that the time it takes for Kaiju's attacks to reach the person would be one second. Considering that the average human reaction time is 0.2 seconds, this gives enough time for the person in question to sufficiently perceive the Kaiju's attack in question.

Would the person in question be fast enough to sufficiently dodge the attack? Hell no. This is because the person's movement speed (caps around 10m/s) would not fast enough to sufficiently dodge the Kaiju's attack in question. The person can perceive the Kaiju's attack and react to it, but he can't move away from the incoming attack fast enough, so he still dies.

Damn House Flies
Find the house fly's speed in the diagram below. When the fly swatter moved a distance of 0.3 meters, the house fly moved a distance of 0.7 meters. The speed of the fly swatter is 3m/second. The velocity of fly = Vfly

• Vswatter = velocity of fly swatter = 3m/second
• Distance fly moved = 0.7m
• Distance swatter moved = 0.3m
• Vfly = ?

Now, to find the speed of the house fly in question, you just find the ratio for the distance fly moved and the distance the swatter moved, and multiply it by the speed of the swatter. So it becomes

• Vfly = (Distance fly moved / Distance swatter moved)*(Velocity of swatter)
• Vfly = (0.7m/0.3m)*(3m/s) = 7m/s

So, the velocity of the house fly in question is 7m/s, which is faster than the incoming swatter in question. We can also find the reaction time for said fly in question, which we can do so by dividing the distance the swatter traveled, by the velocity of the swatter. This will provide the time it took for the swatter to move 0.3m.

• Time = Distance swatter moved / Velocity of swatter
• Time = (0.3m)/(3m/s) = 0.1 seconds.

Seeing that the fly managed to move away by the time it took for the swatter in question to reach 0.3m, we can safely say that the reaction time for the fly in question is 0.1 seconds, or lower.

Would the person in question be fast enough to sufficiently dodge the attack? Yes, because the fly managed to move away distance while the incoming fly swatter was heading directly towards said fly. This would also a reaction/movement feat for said fly as well, since he managed to perceive the swatter and dodge it. Basically this entire post is summaried as

• Time = Distance/Velocity
• Required reaction time = Distance between the attack and person / Velocity of incoming attack

Conclusion
As for why all the above post was written, it is to just prove that you can still sufficiently see attacks from characters that are many times faster than yourself, if the incoming attacks are of sufficient distance away from the person in question. But then, we have characters who are capable of dodging incredibly fast attacks at very close ranges.

For example, if a person was able to dodge a lightning bolt while said lightning bolt was already heading towards the person in question, it would mean that the person was able to perceive the lightning bolt coming towards him, and move his/her body away from it in due time. This would be

• A reaction feat since the person managed to dodge within the timeframe it would have taken for lightning bolt to travel towards the targer.
• A combat speed feat since the person managed to move his/her away within that timeframe.

As for what all this means, if you have a certain Reaction speed via movement, it would be safe to say that you can fight at that speed as well, meaning your combat speed would be comparable to your reaction speed.


Reaction speed = combat speed

As for this topic, I mostly agree with what Matt has presented here. As for how we are going to implement this proposal, note that Eren in his Titan form has a Supersonic reaction feat, which is still much above that of a normal human in proportion to his size.

Treat this as a case-by-case basis thing.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think that Lina makes perfect sense, and is being the most logical here.

 

[Promestein]

Yes, Lina's post here seems good to me, as well.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I agree with Lina as well.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Lina seems to make sense.

 

[Lina_Shields]

For example, let's say that character A shoots at character B with a gun and character B dodges. That is reaction speed. Keep in mind, sometimes a person aim dodges and it is not as good of a feat.

This would mean that when Character A shot at Character B with a bullet, the dodging speed for Character B would be the reaction speed. But then when you get to this statement...

Reaction speed is the timeframe in which a character can react to an event or action.

Velocity/Speed =/= Time.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Lina

Yeah, I raised an eyebrow at the use of the word timeframe. I think we should just change it back to the old definition.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Reaction speed:

Reaction speed is the speed in which a character can react to an event/action. This would only apply as a single, quick movement at a certain speed in comparison to multiple movements at that certain speed.

Reaction time:

Reaction time is the timeframe in which a character can react to an event/action.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will undo my timeframe edit until we have come to an agreement.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Does this thread require more input? Perhaps we need to make absolutely sure that we are okay with the definition for Reactions. If anyone want to suggest something different, then by all means feel free to do so.