About Giorno's Willpower manipulation.

[Firephoenixearl]

Would Giorno's Willpower manipulation count toward a "win" if he can't put an end to his opponent (and the opponent is incapable of taking his/her own life). Would just reseting their will to 0 be a "win" (assuming the opponent has no way around the will being turned to 0 for as long as he's alive)?

 

[DMB_1]

According to SBA, the win can be via death, incapacitation or KO.

If you can convince your opponent to not fight anymore, that counts as a win for you.

If you can trap your opponent in a continuous death loop, it counts as a win for you via incapacitation.

So yes. it does.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

But does it really count as "incap" if all you're doing is convincing an opponent leagues above you to stop fighting. (im gonna derail from Giorno's example here a bit)

Let's take Medaka's alpha presence a bit and crank it up quite a fuking bit. So her existence is basically so heavy that everyone respects her, so if she were to fight someone way above her league like....let's say Hajun or something like that. She has no way to beat or do anything significant to Hajun, but she has her wanked Alpha Presence for this theoretical fight. Hajun would not fight Medaka out of respect for her, so Medaka just convinced her opponent to not fight her, would that be her win on paper? Even though she is much weaker than Hajun and really has no way to affect him other than just convince him to not fight?

Another example is the casual shonen protag. Let's take Naruto for example, let's put his "talk no jutsu" on crack and put him (again) against Hajun. Naruto would be able to talk sense into Hajun and convince him he's doing a wrong thing and he should stop (cus Naruto is f-ing tier 0 with talk). Would that be Naruto's win?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Yup. Same as mind hax.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yup. Same as mind hax.

Is that answering my 2 examples above too?

Also mind hax is much different than this. Mind hax: The opponent is in "no shape" to fight Willpower: The opponent just doesn't feel like fighting.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Yes.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Resetting an opponents will to "0" isn't necessarily a traditional "win", though it can count as an incapacitation. His opponent physically can no longer fight back. Same thing goes for mindhax.

Alpha Presence is different, because although your opponent is unable to hurt you directly, there is nothing stopping them from dodging and evading your attacks, or attack through vague loopholes (summons perhaps). If neither characters can fight/win (in this case, character A can't fight out of respect via alpha presence, and character B can't fight because lack of damage) than it results in an inconclusive.

Talking an opponent down from fighting results in inconclusive, because it implies you don't want to fight either. If you talk someone down from fighting and then try to beat them up, they will say "**** that" and fight back anyways.

 

[Wokistan]

Mindhaxxing someone into not fighting counts as a win by incap, regardless if its due to mental slavery, destruction of the mind, or just convincing people not to fight as SW users and SCP-999 do. Giorno's willpower manip is in the same vein. Your example with Naruto and Hajun is basically saying "Assume Naruto has 1A mindhax", same for the one with Medaka's super alpha presence. If they actually had 1A powers like that, it would legit count as a win. Hax works independent of tier, instead being confined by dimensionality, and giorno is no different.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

About Alpha Presence, it's not that the enemy will be unable to hurt you. It's that the vs will not even happen. The Super Alpha Presence is basically "Hajun has too much respect for me to even try to go against me", that's Alpha Presence it makes other ppl fear or respect you (it depends). So it's either "i win cus my opponent is too scared to take me on" or "i win cus my opponent would never go up against me". The fear or respect prevents the opponent from even trying to fight Medaka. As for Naruto, isn't it basically the same thing? Naruto, once he talks someone out, he can't attack him and therefore failing to put and end to the opponent. Same with Giorno, he does will 0 and is STILL unable to do anything meaningful to the opponent.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Alpha Presence is not as much of a "hax" as it is a "meta power". It's simililar to The Hero(not bound by dimensionality as it's a blessing from a MUCH higher being, namely the author). If The Hero is a power that makes you always win no matter cus the author wants you to win, Alpha Presence is something that comes with the hero, you are destined to always win, you are the main character that's why everyone has respect for your existence. It's not really bound by dimensionality but it's not rly strong, it doesn't stop ppl from fighting Medaka even in verse that's why this is "super alpha presence".

 

[Wokistan]

Alpha Presence is not as much of a "hax" as it is a "meta power". It's simililar to The Hero(not bound by dimensionality as it's a blessing from a MUCH higher being, namely the author). If The Hero is a power that makes you always win no matter cus the author wants you to win, Alpha Presence is something that comes with the hero, you are destined to always win, you are the main character that's why everyone has respect for your existence. It's not really bound by dimensionality but it's not rly strong, it doesn't stop ppl from fighting Medaka even in verse that's why this is "super alpha presence".

Yeah, that's not how either of those powers work in the context of this wiki. They're limited to their showings, and limited by dimension. However, without the restrictions and stuff, yes it would be a win even if the oponent should be way stronger.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Anyway long story short Super Alpha Presence, Will Power stuff and literally anything else makes your opponent unwilling to battle you counts as a win right?

This can be closed then.