A Request to Pause the creation of any Pokemon vsthreads + Another request

[Arceus0x]

Today i wanna ask something of the mods.
You see, we have pokemon profiles like these:

Tyranitar

Tyranitar is a large, bipedal, dinosaurian Pokémon with a green, armor-like hide covering its body. It has two pairs of pointed teeth: one in the upper jaw and one in the lower. Several spikes of varying size protrude from the back of its head, neck, and shoulders. Both sides of its chest, the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

that lack loads of their abilities and basic resistances
(Tyranitar has 6 resistances against different moves and an immunity to psychic attacks, and yet none are listed)

Many pokemon profiles are simply too outdated due to the amount of them and thus it is hard to clear up all of them with the lack of active supporters.

I will try to clean up many profiles and i'll make a second clean up thread. Thing is, idk when or if we will succeed.

I also wish to request that we are allowed to use these two sites as source material

Bulbagarden

The Original Pokémon Community

bulbagarden.net

The Official Pokémon Website

www.pokemon.com

as the former site is a un-official and yet exceptionally accurate site with references and info about all stats and even all episodes/manga chapters where pokemon appeared. The latter is official.

 

[SamanPatou]

Vs threads are made for fun and unless they turn into an chaotic and heated mess, I don't see a reason to ban them, especially if we consider that these revisions will take quite a long time.
At most the matches that are on profiles can be removed after the revisions are carried out, assuming said revisions make them invalid.


Bulbapedia and Pokedex.com are fine to me.

 

[Imaginym]

If I recall correctly, some of the type-based resistances were deemed invalid because many moves of given types were too mundane &/or unfitting of the ability we might ascribe to the move.
Or something like that? Or was that just immunities?

Ex: Not all Flying-type moves are Wind/Air Manipulation, & just because Pokemon take extra damage from certain Pokemon moves doesn't mean they have properties of the Powers/Abilities we might ascribe to those moves, or otherwise, those types.

Ex: Drill Peck isn't necessarily Air Manipulation, & both it & Fury Attack can involve beaks; Fury Attack even specifically mentions using a beak in many of its descriptions. Yet one can hit Ghost-types & the other can't, & why would Drill Peck be Air Manipulation but the other isn't?

Similarly, Drill Run is "The user crashes into its target while rotating its body like a drill.", & is Ground-typed, yet why would we ascribe Earth Manipulation to it beyond the type?

Pokemon resist moves because of their types, & there are a lot of ways a move's type can change, which changes which Pokemon resists it, as opposed to properties which we ascribe Powers/Abilities to, which some moves of that type have.

Mud-Shot is Ground-type & Earth Manipulation, but not all Ground-type moves are Earth Manipulation, thus, Resisting that Type isn't necessarily Resisting that Power/Ability.


IQ Skills, IIRC, were decided to not be used because of some canon hierarchy thing & them mostly being from Mystery Dungeon, which is pretty different from a lot of other Pokemon media.

But yes, Pokemon profiles do need reworks. Intelligence, Range (IDK if the revision for that finished.), Stamina, behaviour, etc.
It's a project of rather daunting scale, but I do hope someone can tackle it.

Plus, a lot of moves, more often lately in the anime, show non-mundane properties that may need to be accounted for, IIRC.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizhaa @Dino_Ranger_Black @Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer @SomebodyData @Amelia_Lonelyheart @Dragonmasterxyz @Colonel_Krukov @Shadowbokunohero @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Starter_Pack @GyroNutz @Psychomaster35 @Ionliosite @DragonGamerZ913 @ElixirBlue @Firestorm808 @KieranH10 @Executor_N0 @QuasiYuri @Theglassman12 @DarkDragonMedeus

What do you think about this?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Not the biggest fan of creating match bans unless revisions are for super big verses that also happen to have a lot of staff members involved, so I pretty much agree with Saman. Though requests for matches to be refrained from getting added might be a better request.

 

[Arceus0x]

Not the biggest fan of creating match bans unless revisions are for super big verses that also happen to have a lot of staff members involved, so I pretty much agree with Saman. Though requests for matches to be refrained from getting added might be a better request.

i think letting legendary mon matches exist would be better as they are far better organized

 

[Psychomaster35]

Neutral on this, really

 

[CloverDragon03]

I agree with Saman tbh

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody who are providing input here.

 

[Starter_Pack]

I agree with Imaginym and Saman here.

Many profiles have problems and missing information. This isn't just a Pokémon thing, but an issue with the wiki as a whole. This is why we work constantly day in and day out to improve the profiles that we have while ensuring more are added. We should let the versus debates be with the profiles that we have now, and if any further information comes along later down the line that severely changes the nature of the character in question, we should deal with it then.

We shouldn't limit the scope of people's fun just because we're missing a few abilities here and there. Pretty sure that's the point of our Content Revision Threads.

 

[Lou_change]

With all do respect we have the space-time manipulation for ever pokemon, reintroduction of IQ skills for a lot, and that TM addition CRT if I recall and the majority of profiles don't show these because people don't care enough to make the changes.

Perhaps this is going a little far but it would definitely encourage people to work on fixing the profiles.

Also aren't pokemon types based on energy from the plates and moves receive types from the plates energy.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I agree with the general consensus. Let people make matches with them, but remove matches after the profiles are updated.

The sites provided also seem okay to get information from

 

[Imaginym]

reintroduction of IQ skills for a lot, and that TM addition CRT

Links. please?

if I recall and the majority of profiles don't show these because people don't care enough to make the changes.

Tragic & infuriating, hypocritical of me as it is to say that, when I almost never edit profiles to begin with.

Also aren't pokemon types based on energy from the plates and moves receive types from the plates energy.

If this is the case, we may wish to create a revision so that those energies can be ascribed to the appropriate moves, & the relevant Powers/Abilities can be added to the profiles.
I'd hate to think that we've been neglecting something as basic as valid Pokemon type Resistances not just because of negligence, but because of a MISCONCEPTION.

No offense meant, all.

 

[Lou_change]

Links. please?

I.Q skills is just from that time we made mystery dungeon uncanon then changed back. TM are here but I seem to have misremembered

https://vsbattles.com/threads/huge-pokemon-crt-2-5-tms.110568/

Tragic & infuriating, hypocritical of me as it is to say that, when I almost never edit profiles to begin with.

I am no better not that I have a device that will let me without messing up the formatting.

this is the case, we may wish to create a revision so that those energies can be ascribed to the appropriate moves, & the relevant Powers/Abilities can be added to the profiles.
I'd hate to think that we've been neglecting something as basic as valid Pokemon type Resistances not just because of negligence, but because of a MISCONCEPTION.

Yes however Sudowoodo and Ash's second fight with brock show it more than that I mean there is a reason almost every physical attack in the anime glows.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Many profiles have problems and missing information. This isn't just a Pokémon thing, but an issue with the wiki as a whole. This is why we work constantly day in and day out to improve the profiles that we have while ensuring more are added. We should let the versus debates be with the profiles that we have now, and if any further information comes along later down the line that severely changes the nature of the character in question, we should deal with it then.

We shouldn't limit the scope of people's fun just because we're missing a few abilities here and there. Pretty sure that's the point of our Content Revision Threads.

Entirely correct. This is a recurring, typical issue. It need not even be brought to our attention anymore, but here we are.
Just update the profiles, if a CRT is truly needed, do it right, move on.

 

[Lou_change]

The problem is they should have been affected by several CRT it is just no one got around to it, many profiles are incomplete, we still need to find some of the tiers if I recall, some CRT's are still in progress of being accepted this like turning of the water supply because it been poisoned we have to make this something people notice and want to fix if we want it done I think it is likely the long term benefits are more than the short term costs leaving the profiles dumpster fires isn't helping but most of them aren't being worked on because it seems pokemon is different then most verses likely because size both in and out of wiki if nothing gets done we need to find a way to encourage it without forcing five people to spend days working on editing profiles and making a match ban for a time is one of the few ways to get that attention if we can find another way to get it and prevent matches from being added for them then it is a better option but something needs to be done.

 

[Starter_Pack]

Or...not? How about not?

If you are concerned about information not getting added from CRTs, then you are more than free to try and get them added yourself, or request assistance to do so. We can't hold an axe over our users' heads saying "Fix the Pokémon profiles or no versus debates for you." That puts an unhealthy pressure on people and would actually hinder people's enthusiasm to do anything with the profiles, be it with matches or otherwise.

Again, you are so focused dead center on Pokémon issues while there are similar problems with plenty of other popular verses, and yet no such restrictions are being suggested for them.

Severe hard pass on this. Nothing is changing that unless you come up with a better reason than "Pokémon profiles are bad."

 

[Arceus0x]

Or...not? How about not?

If you are concerned about information not getting added from CRTs, then you are more than free to try and get them added yourself, or request assistance to do so. We can't hold an axe over our users' heads saying "Fix the Pokémon profiles or no versus debates for you." That puts an unhealthy pressure on people and would actually hinder people's enthusiasm to do anything with the profiles, be it with matches or otherwise.

Again, you are so focused dead center on Pokémon issues while there are similar problems with plenty of other popular verses, and yet no such restrictions are being suggested for them.

Severe hard pass on this. Nothing is changing that unless you come up with a better reason than "Pokémon profiles are bad."

I never tried "holding an axe over people" Don't misinterpret my words. All i wanted was to make a pause otherwise people will have to use profiles where a pokemon has conceptual manipulation for no reason. People already mutually disagreed on this so I'll just continue doing the clean up, something i WASN'T trying to push on others, rather organize it myself.

 

[Starter_Pack]

My statement was aimed more towards Lou than it was towards you, but my sentiment remains the same.

I appreciate the understanding.

 

[Antvasima]

I never tried "holding an axe over people" Don't misinterpret my words. All i wanted was to make a pause otherwise people will have to use profiles where a pokemon has conceptual manipulation for no reason. People already mutually disagreed on this so I'll just continue doing the clean up, something i WASN'T trying to push on others, rather organize it myself.

Okay. Thank you for trying to help out with improving our profile pages.

 

[Lou_change]

You're right but the current system has left pokemon almost completely untouched by several approved verse wide CRTs I think that is a sign of something that should be changed or looked into but I suppose I was overreacting.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

You're right but the current system has left pokemon almost completely untouched by several approved verse wide CRTs I think that is a sign of something that should be changed or looked into but I suppose I was overreacting.

It is fair to say it needs to be done, but having humility in admitting that was very nice. Just getting it to happen is mostly available to 3 kinds of staff and most users. Content Mods, Admins and Bureaucrats. Discussion Mods like Hop, calc members and such don't inherently have the ability to do this.

 

[Starter_Pack]

It is fair to say it needs to be done, but having humility in admitting that was very nice. Just getting it to happen is mostly available to 3 kinds of staff and most users. Content Mods, Admins and Bureaucrats. Discussion Mods like Hop, calc members and such don't inherently have the ability to do this.

To be fair, the needs for those three staff teams mostly revolve around their ability to edit locked pages. If one is truly competent in their editing, most profiles in question can be handled by practically anyone, including non-staff.

 

[Elizhaa]

I also agree with the general consensus.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

To be fair, the needs for those three staff teams mostly revolve around their ability to edit locked pages. If one is truly competent in their editing, most profiles in question can be handled by practically anyone, including non-staff.

Disc mods have to request pages be unlocked. We can only edit and (un)lock, threads, not wiki pages.

 

[Starter_Pack]

Yes. An annoyance for our fellow staff, but one that is expected and understood, I am sure.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yes. An annoyance for our fellow staff, but one that is expected and understood, I am sure.

I don't understand it at all, give me the power you cowards. Yeah, I get it.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we close this thread now?

 

[Starter_Pack]

I believe the topic has been addressed in its entirety, and the thread can be opened again by request if there is more to be said.

I'll close the thread now.