A Potential Speed Upgrade?

[Lightbuster30]

So, here's the deal: We consider moving the Sun to be via Telekinesis right? The fastest it was calced was at 59 c. So logically, if Celestia can throw the Sun at 1/3rd of that speed, they can throw objects at that speed (those who scale that is). Thing is: Starlight Glimmer was flying around with telekinesis while fighting Twilight, and she potentially scales to 1/6th of Celestia.

"Isn't that just self-levitation?" Yes, self levitation done via telekinesis. The aura surrounding the wielder is literally exactly the same as when they use telekinesis in almost every usage of it. It's very likely it's just self-telekinesis and not a hax ability/specific spell.

Potential Counterarguments: "Not everything they use telekinesis on is going to be at the same speed as the sun" That makes no sense in the slightest. Base logic by itself dictates that if they can TK the sun at such speeds, they can do so for normal objects. The power of the TK does not change, and thus niether does its speed. Occams Razor leans to my suggestion, not against it. All they have to do is react to TK being used in a combat situation where they'd be using their TK to it's fullest.

"Are there any instances of them reacting to TK in combat situations?" As stated: Starlight Glimmer telekinetically levitating herself, moving around, and not flying around into things. Her running speed obviously wouldn't scale, seeing as she is telekinetically moving herself around, but she'd need to be capable of reacting to her telekinesis in order not to fly into a wall.

"Starlight doesn't scale to either Celestia or All-Alicorn Twilight". Quite contrary, she scales to 1/6th of Celestia via scaling to Twilight. I've actually asked someone on reddit what the speed of Twilight and by extension; Starlight, would be if the sun were moved at such speeds, and her magic assisted in doing so alongside the other princesses. Just replace meters per second with speed of light.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Bumping for the 4th time.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

You could contact people on the Knowledgable Members List for MLP to come here.

 

[Lightbuster30]

You could contact people on the Knowledgable Members List for MLP to come here.

I asked Darkanine about it, but haven't gotten a response. He must be busy.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Argh. I wrote a reply here days but I must've forgot to have saved it.

She was moving something with her mind at MFTL speeds, and since they can use Telekinesis to fly themselves (who are obviously not star-sized) I guess it can work for an upgrade?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Argh. I wrote a reply here days but I must've forgot to have saved it.
She was moving something with her mind at MFTL speeds, and since they can use Telekinesis to fly themselves (who are obviously not star-sized) I guess it can work for an upgrade?

Must not have seen it. But, yeah. That's my logic here: They can TK objects at MFTL speeds, they can TK themselves with similar speeds (only difference is the size) It would actually be MFTL+ for the best of these speed feats https://www.narutoforums.org/threads/the-storm-king-plays-with-the-sun.1164188/

 

[Antvasima]

I am not so sure. It seems uncertain that she can withstand the acceleration of moving at such speeds when using telekinesis on herself, and in addition fiction tends to be very inconsistent. I think that it is much safer to strictly scale from actual speed feats, such as those done by Rainbow Dash.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I am not so sure. It seems uncertain that she can withstand the acceleration of moving at such speeds when using telekinesis on herself,

I am unsure what you mean by this?

 

[Lightbuster30]

If Starlight isn't enough, then Twilight reacted to Tirek TK throwing her. He threw her into a mountain (telekinetically), and we see seconds later she surrounded herself in an aura to soften the blow. She had to have put that aura up as she was being flung, else there'd be no point in putting it up in the first place.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I still think that we should consider this as an inconsistency though. Rainbow Dash would fly enormously slower than Celestia, Twilight and Starlight can move with telekinesis otherwise, which makes no sense.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Okay. I still think that we should consider this as an inconsistency though. Rainbow Dash would fly enormously slower than Celestia, Twilight and Starlight can move with telekinesis otherwise, which makes no sense.

This doesn't scale to their normal movement speed, only their ability to react.

Sorry, but the bolded statement is confusing for me. Isn't Rainbow Dash supposed to be slower than Celestia? I was never comfortable scaling her to beating a Twilight who could barely fly.

 

[Antvasima]

Rainbow Dash is officially supposed to be the swiftest flier in Equestria, as far as I am aware.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Rainbow Dash is officially supposed to be the swiftest flier in Equestria, as far as I am aware.

I'm fairly certain that's contradicted by every feat anyone on Celestia's level, or anyone even a fraction of her level (such as Twilight Sparkle) have done. It was Discord and Twilight who have relativistic speed feats, not Rainbow Dash.

She is only ever mentioned as the fastest flier in Equestria once in all of her descriptions.

Volume II Description: As the number-one flier in all Equestria, Rainbow Dash rules the skies as the Pegasus pony supreme. It's calling her the fastest pegasus, here. Twilight and Celestia are not pegasi.

My Little Pony magazine description: This strong mare lives for adventure! Rainbow Dash is the first to volunteer for a dangerous task, the fastest pony in Ponyville and a true pony hero! Here she is only called the fastest in Ponyville.

Hasbro.com 1st description: She's quite positive she's the fastest Pegasus pony alive, and truth be told, she probably is. Yet again, she is only referred to as the fastest pegasi, not taking into acount other creatures, or other pony tribes such as alicorns.

 

[FloweryAlex]

To be honest, I really disagree with rating tier 4 through moving the sun like this. Regardless of the one time it was implied planets go around the sun like normally, I see no way you can disregard the whole idea of how the gravity of the sun works and then use that same thing to calculate a feat for them.


If the sun worked like the real world one, it couldn't be moved like that without ******* over the planet very hard, and there was the point where an antagonist got the ability to just move the sun and the moon and he was playing with it like it was a switch on/off thing, not greabbing a massive ball of gas and moving it in a perfect arc as to not roast/freeze the whole planet. I don't agree with giving a rating based on it any more than I would making Riordan's Ra 4-C for pushing the sun during the day (It's only a boat at night).

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but I am fairly certain that none of the alicorns or unicorns can fly faster than her, whether via wings or telekinesis. Combat speed may differ though.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Okay, but I am fairly certain that none of the alicorns or unicorns can fly faster than her, whether via wings or telekinesis. Combat speed may differ though.

That is contradicted right here with Rainbow Dash failing to catch up to Nighmare Moon.

 

[Antvasima]

Rainbow Dash has turned a lot swifter since the beginning of the show though, and Nightmare Moon probably didn't completely outclass her to such an extreme degree. It is possible that we can scale combat speed of course, but all of this seems too speculative and roundabout for my taste.

 

[FloweryAlex]

Alright then. Just ignore me.

Jokes aside, do you have a rebbuttal for that? Becaue I'll make a crt if not. I don't see why using physics which their sun contradicts for a tier is aplicable.

 

[Lightbuster30]

We aren't using physics for tier 4. We simply assume the Sun is the same size as our own, that's it. You wanna know why the Sun hasn't "****** over the planet" everytime it moves? Because it's being ignored for the sake of plot. The writers aren't out to prove the Sun is as big as ours, they're trying to write a story and make money. My Little Pony was; and still is, a childrens cartoon, and childre aren't at all interested in the affects moving a massive ball of hydrogen have on the Earth. And so it's not getting focused on; not because it genuinely doesn't work like that, but simple PIS.

Don't think so? Well thats how it works. Hell, when asked why the night-day cycle was still operating in the S8 finale after all the magic was gone, Jim Miller wrote it off as "thats how the episode was written."

 

[FloweryAlex]

That is a pretty bad excuse. You don't assume it to be as big as real world sun when it blatantly contradicts it. Wasn't moving the sun and the moon compared in the show?

Even if not, it still comes to the fact that you want to ingore all of the sun's mechanics but assume it works like the real world counterpart. Which is pretty baseless.


I mean, what other tier 4 feats do they have beyond moving the sun? Because giving tier on this is not something reasonable. Is there a statement that the sun is equivalent to the real world version at all?

 

[FloweryAlex]

Hell, the very first episode equates the moon and sun with yin-yang simbolism and all.

And the moon sure as hell isn't like the real one, what with people living there and all.

 

[Lightbuster30]

It is an excuse when you have multiple Solar System models implying it, other stars in the universe working like actual stars, and an explicit statement that the Sun is indeed as big as our own. Yes it was compared. Celestia called moving the Moon easier, which makes sense considering that the moon is lighter than the Sun.

 

[Lightbuster30]

And the moon sure as hell isn't like the real one, what with people living there and all.

Erm..when have there been people living on the moon in the cartoon?

 

[FloweryAlex]

Could you please show that tough? The proof of it on the profiles is sure as hell lacking.

 

[Js250476]

Model of the solar system

 

[FloweryAlex]

Beyond the fact that that model can't be taken litirally for obvious reasons, that alone is hardly enough to assume that every other form of logic regarding the sun can be thrown out of the window.

Hell, wasn't there something about the stars also coming up with the moon?

 

[FloweryAlex]

Hell, by that logic all ponies scale to an extent, since before Luna and Celeste the combined effort of all ponies did the rising of the sun.

Which makes all of them Low 5-B, assuming there were a hundred billion of them.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Of course it is.

And no, there wasn't. The moon "brings the stars" for the same reasons it does irl: The suns light isn't being scattered by the atmosphere making it too bright to see. If it isn't pis, then why is it that every single star in the universe is treated like regular stars, while the Sun isn't?

 

[Lightbuster30]

But, hey I guess by your logic we should downgrade piccolo destroying the moon back to low 6-B. After all, the moon got blown up multiple times in series, yet it didn't **** up the planet. Guess it's no longer a moon anymore. Oh well.

 

[FloweryAlex]

Oh, well if you say so I'll ignore that gravity doesn't apparently exist (Which alone makes the idea of a solar system around it null).

That too I'm sure is perfectly proven and stated in the show.

But again, why don't we scale every other pony to raising the sun collectively then? If you want to ignore all the anti-feats as PIS, than litirally every pony should scale to at least tier 5 by that logic.

 

[FloweryAlex]

But, hey I guess by your logic we should downgrade piccolo destroying the moon back to low 6-B. After all, the moon got blown up multiple times in series, yet it didn't **** up the planet. Guess it's no longer a moon anymore. Oh well.

What? Are you equating the lack of the moon with forcefully draggin a solar systems star around? That is such a ridicolous false qeuivalency.

The lack of high and low tides is nowhere near as appaling to the moons credibility as none of the planets circulating around the star is.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Hell, by that logic all ponies scale to an extent, since before Luna and Celeste the combined effort of all ponies did the rising of the sun.
Which makes all of them Low 5-B, assuming there were a hundred billion of them.

Nope, non canon. Only groups of highly trained and able bodied unicorns moved the sun. Have you even kept up with the show recently? No really? Because anyone who's read the Journal of the 2 Sisters, or seen the episode "Horse Play" knows that isn't true. And really? 1e11 ponies?

 

[Js250476]

Your arguing physics needs to be 100% accurate in vs, it's a lost cause argument especially since your arguing it against MLP of all things.

 

[FloweryAlex]

Your arguing physics needs to be 100% accurate in vs, it's a lost cause argument especially since your arguing it against MLP of all things.

No I'm not, I am arguing that if it is contradicted, you don't use something based on it to make a calc.

If AP was never shown to translate to AP, you can't just say that every tier 6 character is Relativistic.

 

[Lightbuster30]

The lack of high and low tides is nowhere near as appaling to the moons credibility as none of the planets circulating around the star is.

Way more than tides being affected would be happening.

 

[Js250476]

https://youtu.be/ueWrfeeXPsw

Basically this

 

[FloweryAlex]

Again, false equivalency. Not only do their repair the moon, but the moon itself never contradicted IRL moon physics.

 

[Js250476]

Except the part where when Piccolo destroyed the moon it was gone for almost a whole year and the Earth wasn't affected whatsoever

 

[FloweryAlex]

Except the part where when Piccolo destroyed the moon it was gone for almost a whole year and the Earth wasn't affected whatsoever

You still don't seem to be getting the idea of a false equivalency.

The moon acts like a moon, and the series always shows moons like normal moons. In my little pony, the moon can be moved irregularly and it doesn't attract any of the planets around it to "fall" like in the real world.

 

[Antvasima]

This is a show about illogical magic. Realism isn't at all a high priority, and their sun has been stated outright to be as big as ours. We are not going to downgrade their tiers. Sorry.