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1,802
2,668
plants and neighbor vs bone boi.
the speed is =
both have their complete arsenal (the player has all his plants and infinite suns)
fight to the death
zombie killer:
skeleton boi:
inconclusive:
Plants vs zombie
Good-sansfanart-hashtag-on-twitter-for-you
 
Now that I think about it, idk if Sans could dodge the beam Witch Hazel fires to turn zombies into Puff-Shrooms, since speed is equal. If that doesn't work the neighbor has plenty of other options of extremely deadly plants, could probably plant a Cherry Bomb right where Sans is standing, still don't know if he'll get out of the way of that. But the most compelling thing is that the neighbor can just use Power Toss or Power Zap and be done with it, I don't see why Sans would be able to dodge the powerups.
 
Stalker Maggot said:
I have a question. Do the plants even have souls?
I knew someone might ask this... Maybe? I don't recall any canon evidence to say so, but there's nothing disproving it either. But if you just read the profile and go to intelligence, the plants seem to be as intelligent and emotional as humans, so it seems likely that they'd have SOULs.
 
By Undertale's logic, yes. Just about anything sentient that hasn't had it destroyed has one, even a literal bucket or an ice cube.
 
I knew someone might ask this... Maybe? I don't recall any canon evidence to say so, but there's nothing disproving it either. But if you just read the profile and go to intelligence, the plants seem to be as intelligent and emotional as humans, so it seems likely that they'd have SOULs.

If nothing says they don't, then it is assumed they do
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
The player blitzes to hell.

With soeed equal Sans just teleports to him and bones to death.
With soeed equal, I'm not sure which would happen first, does the player get dunked on, or does Sans get Power Tossed into oblivion? We need to consider standard battle assumptions. The OP did not state location and starting pos, so the player (as in the actual human controlling the plants) is probably at a disadvantage due to range. Their regular attacks (plants' various abilities and Sans' danmaku) are tens to dozens of meters, but Sans has much further range via teleportation and Gaster Blasters. On the plus side, Central Park, New York City, gives the player an environmental advantage due to being surrounded by soil to put plants wherever he wants. However, we don't know just what the range is for how far away the player can plant plants, but we only see in game that while the player is inside their house, plants can be placed anywhere on the front lawn, backyard, or roof. The screen itself for the player clicking/tapping and dragging the plants might also be a range restriction, also for using powerups. With all that in mind, there's one of two ways the battle will begin. Either Sans teleports the player closer to be in range of the bone danmaku, or tries to snipe them off from the starting distance with Gaster Blasters. With speed equal, the player reacts and probably stops the lasers with plant food on an Infi-Nut to create a holographic barrier. Since the forcefield itself is an inanimate object that wouldn't have a SOUL, and it's created by a building+ durable plant, while Sans is just building AP, I'm not sure if he could pierce the forcefield that quickly with Gaster blasts. Even when he does, the player has more plant food or can probably create a little more with a Power Lily, and if he can't, he'll probably just plant a few more defensive plants around the Infi-Nut, if not a decent meat shield via Puff-Shrooms. With the player hiding behind a good defense, Sans will either have to close the distance to get in bone range, teleport over, or most likely, teleport the player to him. When that happens, he'll get crushed with bones. Thing is, would it really kill him instantly? The SOUL poison and lack of invincibility frames is caused by karmic retribution, which probably wouldn't affect the player well since he's not some genocidal maniac, he's just a protag trying to survive in a zombie apocalypse, he hasn't really done anything bad, and we could debate all day about the ethics of killing undead corpses. Before the unavoidable bones kill him, since speed is equal, he might have time to react and use a Cherry Bomb, Power Toss, or Power Zap, or many other options that could probably kill Sans instantly. I don't know if Sans can get out of the way before the Cherry Bomb right on top of him explodes. Power Zap deals rapid electric damage and the player controls it, so he could probably keep it on top of Sans if he dodges, but maybe not if he teleports, but he wouldn't have to be shocked for long before he's a pile of dust and ash since it's building+ against 1 HP only assumed to be regular building. Funny how both of them have telekinesis, Sans has blue mode and can change SOUL gravity while tossing it against box sides, while the player can wreak havoc with Power Toss. One thing's for sure, Sans definitely wouldn't be able to dodge telekinesis. And the zombies most affected by it are rapidly spun before they go of screen or simply fade and disappear, heavily implying it killed them, and let's not forget that the zombies are building+ while Sans is only building. But now that I think about it, ironically one of the most effective, fast, and little reaction for dodging should be Spikeweed or more likely Spikerock. It will get planted beneath Sans' feet and he's instantly taking damage, and with building+ against building, I don't know if Sans will be able react and step off of it before it kills him. Probably not just the methods I already listed, the player just has so many different plants and various options for how to kill Sans once they close the distance and get this close encounter. But I don't know how many of these attacks Sans can react to and dodge, if any, and I certainly don't know if it can kill Sans before the player is eventually killed by the bones.

Because of all the unknowns, and due partly to standard battle assumptions, I now vote inconclusive.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
By Undertale's logic, yes. Just about anything sentient that hasn't had it destroyed has one, even a literal bucket or an ice cube.
Huh, just a funny thing I wanted to point out, we assume the PvZ plants have SOULs because they are very sentient, but Flowey is an Undertale character who's a sentient flower and lacks a SOUL. But it doesn't matter, he's a special case since he used to be a regular flower that wasn't sentient in the first place, probably doesn't even identify as a monster. He was only given personality and a will to live in the first place by Asriel's dust and a DETERMINATION injection, but it's explicitly stated this worked without giving him a SOUL. The PvZ plants on the other hand actually seem to have compassion unlike Flowey, and they're actually born with sentience in the first place rather than it just being injected. So yeah, we'll still assume for this thread that the plants have SOULs, I like energy equalization. Cute image here
 
Can you look back at what you wrote and rewrite it in a manner that doesn't hurt the eye? Paragraphs would help a lot, for one.

So, let's do this.


Flowey has no soul because his soul was destroyed, and the sentience of Asriel was forced into a non-sentient flower from the above ground. Sentient plants like Vegetoid have should just fine.

Sans' attacks are intangible, forcefield are thus useless.

Karmik retribution is baseless fanon. Sans causes poison to the soul, that's it, absolutely no proof of relying on someone's LV.bAnd even without the poison he does 1 HP damage per frame, which means a normal soul would die in 0.3 seconds.


Sans does not have 1 HP. That's, again, fanon. He is weak enough to get one-shot, but that is neither here nor there.

Telekinesis would literally just need him to teleport to somewhere else. Same with most abilities the player has. The only reason why Sans wouldn't use them is him not doing so in the game, but there he was fighting an enemy with no proper attacks that couldn't even scratch him, so he had zero reasons to do it at all.


Sans could also just teleport the player to him, nd the player can't just summon any plant willy nilly, they still need to build up energy.
 
That jab you took at my wall of text was rude and uncalled-for, when I spent so long typing it because I wanted to explain my point thoroughly. I mean I get that Vs Battles is sort of already a bad place to begin with, and most of the Internet already has a negative view on it, but toxic jerks like you are only making it look worse when I'm just here to have some nice versus threads. Not to mention this place already has clear guidelines about rude and offensive language, and also about veering off topic in a discussion. Sorry for minimodding :/

So, let's do this.

I clearly brought up the Flowey thing jokingly and still concluded that the plants will have SOULs.

And sorry about the KR thing, I actually thought that was canon, since everybody in the fandom brings it up when talking about Sans. Excuse my ignorance and confusion.

Speed is equal, and doesn't that also affect reactions and combat speed? In which case, I don't know if 0.3 seconds is long enough for the player to place a plant or use a powerup, and I don't know if the speed equalization would allow for Sans to dodge (or teleport away from) said attacks. Though he is known to be good at dodging, what if speed is equal? I still vote incon from all the unknowns.

And also he does have 1 HP in the game's code. The fact that it isn't stated in game is not much reason to say it's fanon, given that all other monsters don't have their exact amount of HP stated either, you just have a health bar and a damage indicator, while you can know the exact HP in the code. There's nothing to disprove him having 1 HP either. With the poor defense and constantly having to dodge attacks until he is one shot, it is heavily implied in the game that his HP isn't very good either. And it doesn't even matter, numerical stats of a character don't affect feats or scaling on their profile, so apparently in Undertale verse you can be building level with only 1 HP and DEF. I shouldn't of even had to bring this up in the first place, in the wall of text I stated it was assumed to be building level right after I brought up having 1 HP rhetorically.

The OP specified that the player has infinite sun, so he kinda can summon any plant willy nilly. Only drawback is each individual plant type has a cool down on their seed packet, but this isn't shared among every plant. Say he could plant an Infi-Nut and plant a Primal Wall-Nut right after, now both plant types have entered cool down, but there's still many other plants he has to choose from while he waits for others to cool down.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Telekinesis would literally just need him to teleport to somewhere else. Same with most abilities the player has. The only reason why Sans wouldn't use them is him not doing so in the game, but there he was fighting an enemy with no proper attacks that couldn't even scratch him, so he had zero reasons to do it at all.
Well, Sans is the only character in his own game who has telekinesis, and has no experience fighting someone else who has telekinesis. He's never been in the situation for him to teleport out of a telekinetic hold, so we do not know whether he can. You can't prove to me that he can avoid the Power Toss, which is very likely to kill him if he can't escape it.
 
I'd like to point out that Sans' attacks are intangible, and would pass straight through wall-nuts.

Anyway can't player time-travel, place plants, then come back to a dead/transmutated/mind-controlled skeleton? Or would that be considered prep?
 
Kriskirby said:
I'd like to point out that Sans' attacks are intangible, and would pass straight through wall-nuts.
Anyway can't player time-travel, place plants, then come back to a dead/transmutated/mind-controlled skeleton? Or would that be considered prep?
Well Ricsi proved to me that the point about the forcefield was false. But we're assuming the plants have human SOULs, so Sans' danmaku wouldn't just pass through, it would bypass durability and he'd have to shatter the plants' SOULs before it reaches the player hiding behind. And the player just planted them, having a sad short life before Sans annihilates them. Given that, they don't have LV, so he depletes 20 HP in 0.3 seconds, making quick work of any plant regardless of their physical durability. That being said, the player can still maintain an effective meat shield by randomly planting as many plants as possible since he has infinite sun. With a regenerating shield, Sans would just have an easier time teleporting the player into short range, as we've discussed. At that point, I don't know whether the player will get poison crushed by bones first or if Sans will get Power Tossed into oblivion (the player's most likely choice in this situation), and there's no proof that Sans can teleport out of the telekinetic hold.

I don't know if Penny would be considered prep or outside help. But if she's allowed, the player can maybe just leave in the middle of battle to a time period where Sans won't reach him, and then come back with a larger army of pre-planted plants in pots, maybe with first strike available on some of them. Even with no prep allowed before the beginning of the battle with the characters not even knowing each other first, the player can still buy some prep by time traveling.
 
I took no jab at the wall of text. I took a jab at the lack of paragraphs. I wrote a wall of text, I have nor problems with them, but dividing it up makes them far more read-able. My language was in no way toxic, and telling you to write in a manner is not what I'd see as toxic at all, either.

The joking part didn't translate to writing really well, and regardless of your conclusion I tend to correct things that are wrong. I wouldn't have had if I knew it was a joke, but you need to make it more notable, because tone is not something I can just know. It was definitely not "clearly" a joke, tough.

It's nothing, I believed it to be true too.

I believe it was agreed that movement and reactions are relative (So someone that moves at mach 5, fights at 10, and reacts to 100 will be 0.5 times slower in movement and 10 times faster in reaction then their combat speed. Or else we get things like characters that have reaction speeds millions of times beyond their reaction as a power just losing said ability). Speed is equal because otherwise Sans is so slow that he can't even see attacks coming at him before they shred him to pieces. And it should let him to dodge most things, tough not everything.

Another thing for the above, the player has more than 0.3 seconds. It takes that much to die after he hit you, which would take some time, tough not much.

Undyne has as MUCH HP as Omega Flowey and Asgore has several millions minus in defense during genocide route in the code. It's not really something you can use as proof for anything. Frisk had 1 DRF too, so that doesn't mean much, and Sans is the weakest monster but not even early game you do dozens/hundreds of damage against weak enemies. Not really a factor here, still get's one-shot, but regardless.

My bad? Is infinite sun an in game thing? If not I guess this match isn't being added, but eh. Anyways, not sure which plants would really stop Sans from summoning bones under him.
 
Dangeroustaco said:
Actually this thread seems to state that Sans' durability negation cannot bypass forcefields, so the player here has Infi-Nut shields going for him.
It's an year old match, it's been changed after some discussion.

And the bones pass through souls as well, continously damaging, that's the point.

Most monster's attacks can be resisted with durability and stop moving (or damaging) after they hit.

Paoyrus' attacks always deal a set amount of damage (4, or just enough to leave you with 1 HP) but they stop after they hit you.

Sans' attacks deal a set amount of damage (1) and pass through your soul, dealing 1 HP damage per every frame of contact.
 
Sans' magic isn't the ghost kind of intangibility, that's napstablook and co.

Sans' is the phasing kind.
 
but anyway, sans could dodge the effect of the plant nutrient for example imp pear? or the ability to contain-mint?
 
with pear imp is understandable but contain-mint only appears on the battlefield and your skill is activated, and this is literally stop your enemy, sans escape from an attack that you can't see or feel?
 
Come to think of it, wouldn't Sans be stopped dead in his tracks with Ice-Shroom or plant food on an Iceberg Lettuce? Apparently he has no resistance to cold and ice manip. With him frozen solid he's completely open to a single use instant such as Cherry Bomb or Squash.
 
He has no rogans, and lives in Iceland. Freezing something without fluids in them is not an effective way to damage them, so he just teleports.

Anyways,this is just acting like the player magically knows how to counter Sans perfectly, despite not even knowing what he is, let alone his abilities. The player prepares the way they would to a normal wave, and then Sans teleports past his plants and destroys his soul.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
The joking part didn't translate to writing really well, and regardless of your conclusion I tend to correct things that are wrong. I wouldn't have had if I knew it was a joke, but you need to make it more notable, because tone is not something I can just know. It was definitely not "clearly" a joke, tough.
The message began with "Huh, just a funny thing I wanted to point out," stating loud and clear that it's something funny I wanted to bring up and wasn't serious about. It ended with "So yeah, we'll still assume for this thread that the plants have SOULs, I like energy equalization", stating loud and clear I was reaffirming the earlier agreement about how the plants will have SOULs. Perhaps that makes the message about Flowey pointless, but I was just trying to lighten the mood, especially from bringing up a fanart of him and Sunflower.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
I took no jab at the wall of text. I took a jab at the lack of paragraphs. I wrote a wall of text, I have nor problems with them, but dividing it up makes them far more read-able. My language was in no way toxic, and telling you to write in a manner is not what I'd see as toxic at all, either.
Well gee, I'm sorry for a little mistake I made, and for us having to take it this far. It's just a problem I have that when I get interested in chatting about a certain topic, I get way ahead of myself and forget to organize things into paragraphs, but that's not to say I never do so. This is just one such case where I failed to. I'll try not to do it again, and to be more organized in this thread. And I prefer when people don't point out my little grammar/writing mistakes, because they usually never do, I'm not use to it >:/

I could just as easily point out the typos in your messages, but I choose not to because I find being a grammar nazi to be very rude anywhere on the Internet.

Can we both drop this? We're both already going pretty off-topic.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
He has no rogans, and lives in Iceland. Freezing something without fluids in them is not an effective way to damage them, so he just teleports.
Anyways,this is just acting like the player magically knows how to counter Sans perfectly, despite not even knowing what he is, let alone his abilities. The player prepares the way they would to a normal wave, and then Sans teleports past his plants and destroys his soul.
I didn't say the ice plants will damage him. I said they'll freeze him, "stop dead in your tracks" is an expression that usually means to stop, get stuck, or be frozen, at least how I see it and have used it throughout my life. Anyway, with him frozen, he's open to any attack that would kill him instantly. And his profile says absolutely nothing about resisting cold/ice manip, despite living a cold place.

The player wouldn't prepare for a wave like they normally would. For one, he has infinite sun (unattainable in any minigame or gamemode in both the original and the sequel). Second, he has access to all plants at once, ignoring a central gameplay gimmick where you can only carry around 10 seed packets at once. Those limits are now exceeded. Finally, he's not in his house controlling plants on the lawn or roof, he's instead in Central Park, New York City, out in the open. Everything about this encounter is abnormal for the player and he probably wouldn't fight the way he usually does.

With such an unexpected situation, the player might just start by time traveling out of Sans' reach. Even if prep isn't allowed before the match and they don't know each other at first, once the battle has begun, the player can buy himself some prep by time traveling away from the battle. He'll probably come back with a load of pre-planted plants in pots, and likely have some of the seed packets boosted with First Strike. As soon as he comes back, throw down Iceberg Lettuce and Sans is frozen. Saying he lacks organs as a skeleton and lives in a cold place is not much reason to say he resists combat level freezing, ice and cold manip.
 
I was being an asshole there, yeah. Sorry about that.

Anyways, him not resisting freezing there is kind of like... anything without fluids not having it specified. It's kind of like the opposite of not putting every human weakness on all profiles. Freezing him, especially when he neither has fluids nor much matter in him (he has some, but not much) would probably mean that he'd be sentient.

Not exactly like normally, but he wouldn't prepare for an enemy just not passing through the plants and teleporting to them. Anyhow, voter's shouldn't be counted, since this can't be added.

Problem is that Sans' whole deal is killing an enemy before they can react. I'm not quiet sure it's fair to say that the player would manage to time travel after seeing Sans' capabilities. And if he travels before that then the problem is the same, Sans teleports to him ignoring all plants that were out around.
 
And... Sans resisting cold is the same thing as him resisting blood manipulation. It's a "no, duh". He has no fluids or organs, his bones are 80% magic and 20% dust, and that just automatically makes freezing useless it's, like, - 200 degrees or something.

And "combat applicable" ice manipulation? It's inferior in just about every way to proper freezing. Freezing for good would tip apart tissue in zombie's making them fall apart when unfrozen, keep them frozen for hours to days depending how hot (or cold) it is outside, and a lot of other effects that the "combat applicable" freezing can't do.
 
the freezing of plants is not a joke this can affect zombies that can withstand becoming ice blocks, turning off cravings, even machines are affected by the freezing and as I said.
What stops the player from occupying the nutrient ability of imp pear or contain-mint if he sees that sans is too problematic?
also the player could not send all sans attacks back or to the sans itself at the start of combat with thyme warp?
 
What..? Being transformed into ice cubes is transmutation and doesn't matter here. Affecting robots is literally just encasing them in it, which doesn't work with a teleport ér.

Say what they do instead of just dropping the name. Regardless, problem is the player doesn't get to see Sans being a problem. Sans teleports to him and throws attacks that practically one-shot. The player would be probably still processing the fact that there are bones coming out the ground by when their soul is destroyed.

Not really, because Sans teleports to him. And he doesn't see that coming because they are 4km apart and he knows that. And by the time he'd start reacting the bones would be already in contact with his legs and destroying his soul.
 
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