A concept preceding emptiness?

[Kavliaris]

So spiritual energy has both attributes of emptiness and substance, and that emptiness has a [name] an a concept, and within the [name] dwell Fate and power.

Spoiler: Naming dao

[In the Three Heavens Great Thousand World, by the authority of the Owner of Names, I reclaim all [Names] of the Sumeru Three Heavens Great Thousand World...!]

With that one declaration, the vapor erupting around Hyeon Rang grows even denser.

At the same time, I feel an illusion as if my mind has suddenly gone blank.

'■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■?'

Even as I try to think, the very concept of nouns is gone.

No, at this level, it feels as though even the concept of 'letters' themselves has been erased.

[Names] have been defining the contours of the world, and with their disappearance, all boundaries in this world have become meaningless.

That's right.

The boundary between the Inner Sea and Outer Sea of Mount Sumeru blurs, and Mount Sumeru begins to collapse.

And after he looks at that spiritual energy for a while, he starts reading what is written in the method book.

'First...it said the difference between the Immortal Family and the Naming Family appears right from the way they absorb spiritual energy, right?'

The existing Immortal Family Methods focus on 'breathing' to absorb Heaven and Earth spiritual energy.

However, methods of the Naming Family, the Confucian Family, and the Shaman Family do not follow the absorption of Heaven and Earth spiritual energy through breathing.

"The way to cultivate the Naming Family Method is not breathing, but the weakening of the name of emptiness (虚) and substance (實)."

'They say the most important thing is the name... Fate dwells in the name, and thus power also dwells in it...'

The character Makli Hyun-ah writes is 'wood (木)'.

And the moment the character for wood is completed, the spiritual energy in the room gathers into the character.

Only wood-attribute spiritual energy clings to the paper Makli Hyun-ah writes on, and the paper itself starts to take on a faint blue-green light.

"Oho...it really does have an effect."

By assigning the spiritual energy that belongs to emptiness (虚) to the [name (名)] that belongs to substance (實), you seal the spiritual energy in one place.

If I get things right:

1. Naming Dao defines the boundaries of the world.
2. Spiritual energy has the dual attributes of existence and nothingness.
3. Within the name dwell fate and power.

Do spiritual energy, fate, power, and obviously [name] qualify as Idealistic Nonexistence? If so what aspect?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

It seems to me that spiritual energy can exist in both nothingness and substance, depending on whether it has been named. This would make it a form of Void Manipulation, since Void Manipulation allows one to turn things from Void into Existence, and from Existence back into Void.

 

[Kavliaris]

It seems to me that spiritual energy can exist in both nothingness and substance, depending on whether it has been named. This would make it a form of Void Manipulation, since Void Manipulation allows one to turn things from Void into Existence, and from Existence back into Void.

What about the general characteristics of spiritual energy from the text above?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

What about the general characteristics of spiritual energy from the text above?

Not sure, not much to go off of.

 

[Kavliaris]

Not sure, not much to go off of.

Alright, at least the naming family method qualifies as void, CM type 3, and fate?

"But on the other hand, the Naming Family Method, Eloquence Family Method, and the Yin-Yang Family Method start from the Plane of Fate.

'So the Naming Family Method uses the power of the Plane of Fate, and the Confucian Family Method uses the power of the Plane of Soul...'

The characteristic of the Naming Family Method is distortion through the manipulation of emptiness and substance, and manipulating the power of names.

That spirit speech activates the Naming Family Method to an extreme, treats the serial numbers written on the pages Makli Hyun-ah gathered as names], and begins to 'call' them.

'The Naming Family Method can also treat a product's serial number as a name, handle it, and seal it. And that means...'

"...I, Makli Hyun-ah, borrowing the social authority of the Owner of Names, command. All existences that answer the names I have just called shall, without exception, be sealed!"

'If I call the names, I can seal the puppets' turbines in an instant! I may not be able to pull the turbines out completely...but at the very least, I can steal the energy the turbines have!'

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Alright, at least the naming family method qualifies as void, CM type 3, and fate?

Void & CM3 I can see, since names are Type 3 Concepts when power-based like this.

As for Fate, it's clear it can do something with fate, but it doesn't really elaborate on what that something is, so even if you listed it, it wouldn't be very useful.

 

[Kavliaris]

Void & CM3 I can see, since names are Type 3 Concepts when power-based like this.

As for Fate, it's clear it can do something with fate, but it doesn't really elaborate on what that something is, so even if you listed it, it wouldn't be very useful.

Bumping this, the name/concept inherently contains the boundary of both emptiness and substance.

In this passage, [Name] of fire controls both real fire and the flame of emptiness.

It happens in an instant.

In an instant, the flames move over to the haystack.

Even in his panic, Makli Hyun-ah snaps to his senses and immediately tears his own clothes.

Afterwards, he sits down on the spot and gathers at his fingertips the spiritual energy he has accumulated until now.

Wo-woong!

At Makli Hyun-ah's fingertips, blue-green spiritual energy gathers, and through that energy, Makli Hyun-ah engraves a name into the torn piece of clothing.

The Name of Fire.

That [Name] he writes while strongly reciting the formula of the Naming Dao Conferring Gods Canon!

The name of substance pulls in the flames of emptiness.

And soon, all the flames of the haystack are dragged toward the name, and in an instant the flames are absorbed into the inside of the name that Makli Hyun-ah has written.

--- 824
The core of the Naming Family Method is to distinguish emptiness and substance through names.

Through names, it draws what belongs to emptiness into reality, and steals the name that is in reality and sends it back to emptiness.

Doing so, distorting law and unleashing authority is precisely the Naming Family Method.

"Talisman War. Open!"

When Makli Hyun-ah spits out the 'name' of the culture called 'Talisman War,' at the same time a barrier with a diameter of five li spreads around them.

By calling the name, he brings down into reality what is called Talisman War that exists only as a 'concept' belonging to emptiness.

emptiness as in illusion, dream and unreal

--- 719
Gradually, ■■■ has the [Names] that comprise him erased and turns into a clump of steam.

'He's not disappearing.'

A being who has lost all names and been forgotten by all.

He is becoming a mass of ancient force.

His form grows fainter, and Hyeon Rang no longer uses his authority against him.

At the same time, I feel a strange sense of déjà vu.

'What...is this?'

Everything feels dreamlike.

Everything is oddly unreal, and dizzying.

The trap talismans and spell talismans that Makli Hyun-ah has kept flipped over in a state of emptiness are reconstructed around Makli Nobi's illusion and complete a scene that exists within the illusion's memories.

By keeping trap talismans and spell talismans flipped over for a long time, he lets the talismans remain for a long period in the emptiness attributes, raising their autonomy when they manifest with substance attributes.

"Do you know what the most important concept in Naming Family talismans is, Seo Hae-ryeong?"

[Hmm, what is it?]

"It is emptiness and reality. A talisman that has not activated is emptiness, and a talisman that has activated is substance. And if you arrange this reality where emptiness and substance stand opposed in the way of the Immortal Family, that is Yin-Yang Taiji!"

'Naming Dao Conferring Gods Canon...I should have realized from the name...!'

The Naming Dao (名道) Confers (封/Seals) God (神/Spirit).

What can be sealed into a name is not just wood-attribute spiritual energy or simple phenomena like flames.

The law of name, giving that defines the boundary of the world between emptiness and reality, is it possible for this to qualify as NEP Type 2?

Does spiritual energy, as the carrier, have an additional nature?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

This is still Void Manipulation; it's not saying names are the boundaries themselves.

 

[Kavliaris]

This is still Void Manipulation; it's not saying names are the boundaries themselves.

well. it called defining the contours of the world, outline, boundaries here

Even as my hands tremble, I keep watching the battle between the two.

With my consciousness having reached Araya Consciousness, I perceive Hyeon Rang's authority even more clearly.

And in that moment, I enter a new world.

'Centered around the Naming Supreme Deity...'

Tsuaaaaaa—

Like ink spreading, a completely new Mount Sumeru appears.

'That is...the vision of a Supreme Deity...!?'

The entire Mount Sumeru is formed of dense [Names], and those countless [Names] create countless flows.

Those flows gather to form an inverted cone, shaping the boundaries of numerous Heavenly Domains, Inner Sea, and the Outer Sea.

And among them, there is a single point where all those countless flows converge.

I realize that that point is none other than Hyeon Rang.

'The origin of all the names that exist in this world...'

Thump, thump...

More precisely, he serves as the heart that helps the powers known as 'names' to properly circulate in this world.

That is the Naming Supreme Deity.

I immediately realize what this vision I'm witnessing truly is.

'Is this...the vision of those who walk the Immortal Dao of Naming...!?'

Through Araya Consciousness, I have become able to see the vision of even the opponent's Immortal Dao.

'Ah...I see.'

I realize that this is the [Origin Essence].

Origin Essence is not a particular material or object—it is, by itself, a world.

'No...that's not it. It's not just because I reached Araya Consciousness that I can see this vision.'

It is because I am directly witnessing a Supreme Deity fully exercising their power that I can see this vision.

Beings who seize the Origin Essence and become the Origin Essence itself.

Monsters who do not get devoured by the Origin Essence that is also called the Heavenly Dao, but instead devour the Heavenly Dao itself.

'Those who devour an entire Immortal Dao. Those who consume the very law itself—those are the Supreme Deities.'

The Naming Supreme Deity throws a punch at ■■■.

A simple straight punch, devoid of any enlightenment of martial principles.

Yet with that punch, the [Names] composing ■■■ scatter.

'He is directly striking the law of [Names] that exists in phenomena.'

The [Arms], [Legs], [Torso], [Meridians], [Immortal Body], [Inner World], and all other [Names] that make up ■■■ are struck, and the blows surpassing the physical force of reality break ■■■ apart.

This Heaven and Earth spiritual energy is...

The Heaven and Earth spiritual energy of the Head Realm.

[I, Hyeon Rang, in the name of the rightful heir of the Head Realm, declare...]

The Origin Essence of life, Omniscience.

From the farthest reaches of Mount Sumeru where the Head Realm lies, an immense light of Heaven and Earth spiritual energy bursts forth and pierces down upon Hyeon Rang.

The sight looks like a pillar of light piercing through the entire expanse of Mount Sumeru.

[In the Three Heavens Great Thousand World, by the authority of the Owner of Names, I reclaim all [Names] of the Sumeru Three Heavens Great Thousand World...!]

Tsuaaaaaa!

With that one declaration, the vapor erupting around Hyeon Rang grows even denser.

At the same time, I feel an illusion as if my mind has suddenly gone blank.

'■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■?'

Even as I try to think, the very concept of nouns is gone.

No, at this level, it feels as though even the concept of 'letters' themselves has been erased.

[Names] have been defining the contours of the world, and with their disappearance, all boundaries in this world have become meaningless.

That's right.

The boundary between the Inner Sea and Outer Sea of Mount Sumeru blurs, and Mount Sumeru begins to collapse.

'■■■...■■■■■■!'

I am struck with shock as I realize what the Naming Supreme Deity is aiming for.

In a world where all outlines have vanished, he wants me to recall the figures of my comrades and connections, to remember their forms, and to yearn for their [Names].

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Yeah, so CM Type 3 for individual names, CM Type 2 for names in general, and Void Manipulation.

They are not the boundaries themselves, but are responsible for them.

 

[Kavliaris]

Yeah, so CM Type 3 for individual names, CM Type 2 for names in general, and Void Manipulation.

They are not the boundaries themselves, but are responsible for them.

Can you clarify why a personal concept, when unaffected by world cycles and annihilation and situated on a higher plane, cannot become Type 1?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Can you clarify why a personal concept, when unaffected by world cycles and annihilation and situated on a higher plane, cannot become Type 1?

Because the Name of a Torso only affects the sed Torso, not all Torso's across a level of reality.

 

[Kavliaris]

Because the Name of a Torso only affects the sed Torso, not all Torso's across a level of reality.

But the CM page heavily emphasizes independence from lower abstractions. Since the power of names and concepts remains functional after the world perishes, it's closer to Type 1.

1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.

The sky collapses. Golden waves collapse all of Mount Sumeru and together with the chaos of the Outer Sea begin to shake Heaven and Earth. In the golden waves, the entire world collapses, and I see Wol Ryeong's spirit and flesh being absorbed into those waves.

The world perishes.

Only three things maintain form in the destroyed world.

First, the Underworld and the spirits the Underworld holds.

Since they are in the embrace of the sole Heavenly Venerable who remains and possesses a normal Gandhara, they are safe.

Second, the True Immortals.

Since they are existences that transcend Mount Sumeru to a certain extent, even as the entirety of Mount Sumeru undergoes annihilation, they can generate prophecies within their bodies and maintain their lives.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I'm currently participating in a CRT with a similar case, but since they're unique to every individual, even being independent didn't qualify.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

It seems to me that spiritual energy can exist in both nothingness and substance, depending on whether it has been named. This would make it a form of Void Manipulation, since Void Manipulation allows one to turn things from Void into Existence, and from Existence back into Void.

Can characters of this type of void manipulation—meaning those capable of turning nothingness into existence—make a character who has NEP 1 lose NEP 1 itself, because they can convert it from nothingness into existence through void manipulation?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Can characters of this type of void manipulation—meaning those capable of turning nothingness into existence—make a character who has NEP 1 lose NEP 1 itself, because they can convert it from nothingness into existence through void manipulation?

Yeah