FFVII Supernova feat possible outlier?

[Lunacorva]

I know I did a post on this before that got debunked, but looking at this again, a new reason has come to light that may put the Supernova as an outlier, and that is the sheer JUMP in AP. While characters in FFVII have been shown to be capable of moon or even planet level feats, a solar system level feat is several thousand times that. And as I understand, this site does not treat feats as valid if they are hundreds of times above what is consistent for the series (Like Batman knocking out The Spectre.)

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Not really. As we have said, one high-end feat =/=outlier.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Well it depends if the lower feats where casual or the one who preformed the feat in question was stated to be superior or not.

I'm no FF Expart, I only know FF 12 and 15. Tho I do know we sometimes accept jumps in power if transformations are involved.

 

[Lunacorva]

And I'm no expert either. But I believe I read somewhere on here that the second highest feat shown was planet level. And I get that high-end feat=/= outlier, but if it's several THOUSAND times higher than even it's closest match without any real canon or story explanation, I think that would put it into outlier territory. Like Superman lifting the book of infinite pages when he's otherwise been shown to be solar system level.

 

[Keeweed]

It's not an outlier; what's with people trying their butts off to downgrade final fantasy.

 

[PaChi2]

Sephiroth uses Supernova in both Dissidia and FF VII so it scales to him at least. Cloud and the rest scales to him for obvious reasons.

The Jump in AP is to be expected but not an outlier. Also, Sephiroth did get a powerup that explains his jump in tier.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Wait Planet Level... Some FF characters are rated much higher than that. Unless you mean just FF7?.

Well Super is consistently shown lower than Infinity and the Book of Infinite Pages was Debunked iirc.

 

[Lunacorva]

"Also, Sephiroth did get a powerup that explains his jump in tier."

Okay, but what about Cloud and the others being rated at Solar System level without any kind of powerup?


Also, are the other FF games even canon to each other?


"Well Super is consistently shown lower than Infinity and the Book of Infinite Pages was Debunked iirc."

And aren't FF characters consistently shown to be lower than solar system?

Right now what is considered "outlier" and what is considered "high end" seems really inconsistent.

 

[Keeweed]

The supernova is one of main plot point of the game; why would it be an outlier.

 

[PaChi2]

"Also, Sephiroth did get a powerup that explains his jump in tier."

Okay, but what about Cloud and the others being rated at Solar System level without any kind of powerup?


Also, are the other FF games even canon to each other?

Cloud literally was the only person able to harm him even before being infused with Mako energy. So he did get stronger. The rest of the cast has no reason to be less as we dont have previous feats for them that compare them to Seph.

Dissidia is canon to the games

 

[Js250476]

Knights of the Round was also Solar System level iirc

 

[Reppuzan]

I don't think it's an outlier when the series has repeatedly shown cosmic level feats like flipping planets and obliterating moons as an aftereffect of the attacks.

Dissidia shows that Sephiroth can still use Super Nova while in his human form too, so that isn't really much of an argument either.

We've been through this before with you, Lunacorva, and I don't like having to deal with the same tired arguments every few months.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Well to be fair, these guys are in a single Videogame while Superman has many issues where he's portaid lower.

Remember that game characters aren't expected to produce feats left and right so you can't expect much.

The FF games are in different Timelines (I likely wrong as hell tho).

 

[Reppuzan]

@Griffin

You're right, virtually all of the numbered Final Fantasy games take place in different timelines, albeit with nods to each of them in many games (the most blatant being X-2's Shinra).

It's also not an outlier if Sephiroth makes stars explode while in human form too.

 

[Js250476]

I'm fairly certain the FF7 cast also scales to this https://youtu.be/sv9aI5RkoeQ

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Reppuzan makes sense.

 

[Lunacorva]

@ Reppuzan. I do remember the last conversation, I acknowledged it in the OP. My question was based on new information that the characters were only planet or moon level, yet able to survive and contend with the user of a Solar System level feat. Which seemed like a huge gap.

To use another example, Roshi's moon buster feat is considered an outlier despite being completely canon, since it's so far and above what anyone else could do at the time.

Which leaves me with the question: What does the gap between established AP's need to be before one is considered an outlier?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The Knights of the Round have a 4-A feat if I remember. So Supernova isn't the highest the game shows, and isn't an outlier.

 

[Schnee_One]

"Planet Level to Moon level"

Actually, FF7 is around Dwarf star level with every feat being done by fodders extremely casually.

So yeah.

"What does the gap between AP need to be?"

insane, like 4A to High 6A or 4A to 3A.

 

[Schnee_One]

The Knights of the Round have a 4-A feat if I remember. So Supernova isn't the highest the game shows, and isn't an outlier.

TELL US

TELL US

TELL US

 

[Js250476]

I posted knights of the round above for those who want to see it

 

[Lunacorva]

Could they BOTH be considered outliers? Or is 4-B and higher feats a regular thing in the games?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Sephiroth's supernova is a staple of FFVII and is done all the time in various iterations of the series.

 

[Schnee_One]

Could they BOTH be considered outliers? Or is 4-B and higher feats a regular thing in the games?

No that's ridiculous.

 

[Js250476]

I'm fairly certain the FF7 cast also scales to this https://youtu.be/sv9aI5RkoeQ

Here's knights of the round btw

 

[Antvasima]

Supernova is also a very blatant 4-B feat, so I am fine with it.

Zack Fair was killed by ordinary bullets despite killing a deity within the same continuity.

Final Fantasy storylines are recurrently inconsistent in terms of scale in order to work, or any conflict involving the protagonists could blow up anything from the solar system to the universe.

Of course, this is common within fiction, and the reason for the area of effect concept.

Also, as far as I understand Roshi's feat was contradicted by lower full power displays from stronger characters later on, whereas Sephiroth's feat happened at the end of the story.

And even so, given that we have over 13500 pages within this wiki, it is impossible to ensure absolute consistency between all verses.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Antvasima

In Final Fantasy XV, Noctis is scared of falling off a large cliff, and mere minutes later he shatters the arms of Titan.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that we discarded the KOTR pocket reality feat, due to that we did not know for certain if it actually contained real stars, and given that Sephiroth's later full power feat was only 4-B.

 

[Js250476]

Those looked liked stars to me

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah, the KOTR feat is considered an outlier. Specially since it is so much higher than Supernova.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew

That kind of inconsistency is one of my points.

 

[Antvasima]

@Js2510476

It could have been an optical illusion.

 

[Lunacorva]

So KOTR is considered an outlier, but not Supernova? Even though you just used the exact. Same. Argument I made for Supernova being an outlier (So much higher than other feats)? What was that about inconsitency?

 

[Antvasima]

Supernova is a blatant full power feat from the final boss, whereas KOTR is vague, uncertain, and performed by canonically much weaker characters.

 

[Schnee_One]

So KOTR is considered an outlier, but not Supernova? Even though you just used the exact. Same. Argument I made for Supernova being an outlier (So much higher than other feats)? What was that about inconsitency?

Are you serious?

No offense, but why the main feat is done at the end of the game isn't an outlier while a far stronger feat done earlier in the game is an outlier should kinda be common sense.

 

[Lunacorva]

KOTR is a blatant full power feat performed by the protagonists of the story, or they are the final bosses themselves, depending on the game.

 

[Antvasima]

I thought that they were just a weak early game summon? Oh well, it is probably better if The Everlasting, and others more familiar with the game take over here.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Matthew
That kind of inconsistency is one of my points.

Final Fantasy is a prime example of a series where the writers have literally no idea how strong their characters are.

 

[Lunacorva]

So KOTR is considered an outlier, but not Supernova? Even though you just used the exact. Same. Argument I made for Supernova being an outlier (So much higher than other feats)? What was that about inconsitency?

Are you serious?
No offense, but why the main feat is done at the end of the game isn't an outlier while a far stronger feat done earlier in the game is an outlier should kinda be common sense.

You cannot use that kind of logic when similar logic has already been ignored to even allow Supernova to be considered a valid feat in the first place.

My first thread about Supernova was that it made no sense since logically, why would Sephiroth go to such lengths to destroy the earth if he could just blow it up with Supernova?

The response: "Oh we don't worry about logic because the writers just don't understand how their powers work."

So the response to the question of: "How can a weaker character use a stronger feat than the final boss?"

Should therefore be (If we are being consistent): "Oh, we don't worry about logic because the writers just don't understand how their powers work."

 

[Schnee_One]

I can't use consistency as logic? Alright, whatever.