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Part 3 Joseph vs Base Kars (7-1-0)

TheArsenal1212

TheArsenal1212

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Similar to EoH, Part 3 Joseph is transported back to the late 30s, where Kars awaits him. Kars, laughing at Jojo's aging prepares for what he believes is an easy fight. Joseph, knowing what Kars is capable of, prepares to do what it takes to take down the Pillar Man.

Fight takes place in Venice

Speed is =

Joseph Joestar: 7

Kars: 1

Incon: 0
 
So, Joseph vs Kars would result in Kars winning, so we need to see exactly what changes between Part 2 and 3.

+More overall experience

+Invisible and non-corporeal vines that can trasmit Hamon

-Less of a trickster with original tactics

-Possibly less AP

Overall, I'm unsure on how this would play out
 
The advantages Joseph has in part 2 are different to part 3 yes. Less of a trickster in part 3, but has knowledge on Kars to a T whereas Kars knows nothing of Hermit Purple.
 
Yeah, Joseph probably leads Kars into a situation where th latter gets entangled by Hermit Purple and yeeted with Sendo Overdrive or something..
 
If Joseph still has knowledge on Kars, he takes this pretty easily. His increased range and Kars still having a weakness to hamon/sunlight means Joseph wraps him up and fills the pillar man with hamon.

So voting Joseph
 
Just letting you know, I'm not giving him prior knowledge, he just naturally knows about Kars because it's his part three self

Also, please remember guys that Joseph's Hamon is weaker and less formidable in part three. I'm not saying Joseph wouldn't win, just wanting everyone to remember this fact
 
Are you guys forgetting the fact that Old Joseph's Hamon isn't nearly as strong as it was in part 2?

Joseph would be lucky enough if Hermit Purple manages to restrain Kars (which I don't think it will be that easy either because Dio broke out of it quite easily).
 
Even if his Hamon isn't as powerful, Kars is still weak to it and can't regen from it as easily as normal attacks.

DIO breaking out of Hermit Purple is a strange case as Hermit Purple does have intangibility and non-corpreality on its page and Stand users shouldn't be able to effect Stands. Either way, Kars has no way of interacting or seeing Hermit Purple as he isn't a Stand user.

Joseph having base knowledge on Kars is already a bonus in his case as he can constantly evade Kars and hit him from range with HP. Kars doesn't really have his enhanced senses until his second key, so not like he'll be sensing HP through the air.

So I'd still give it to Joseph since he still has Kars' weakness, knows by default Kars is a threat and will go all out against him, and has the range advantage. Joseph is still pretty smart as shown in the Empress fight, so don't think he's fully lost his touch.
 
DMB 1 said:
Are you guys forgetting the fact that Old Joseph's Hamon isn't nearly as strong as it was in part 2?

Joseph would be lucky enough if Hermit Purple manages to restrain Kars (which I don't think it will be that easy either because Dio broke out of it quite easily).
Click to expand...
I did indeed say this hahahaha
 
1) Yes, Pillar Men are weak to hamon, just like flames can be extinguished by water, but that doesn't mean that you can extinguish a house fire with a bucket of water. Ceasar and Jospeh (who mind you, was already able to do pretty crazy crap with hamon), still were only able to superficially damage the Pillar Men before training. So no, the avarage hamon user can't even defeat a fully developed Vampire, let alone a Pillar Man. Joseph at this point, is only able to do a weaker version of his Overdrive, which is deifinitely even weaker than what he displayed against Straizo.

2) Stand Users don't have Non-Physical interactions, they can just see Stands, not touch them, and you don't even need it to overpower a incorporeal being with sheer strenght: You can't possibly tell me that Danny Phantom as an intangible can restrain Son Goku just because the former is non-corporeal. You can still overpower an intangible force. Hermit Purple itself has no feats above Tier 9, and Dio, a very weakened vampire, casually overpowered it with his own strenght before Joseph could even channel hamon through it. Dio mocked Hermit Purple's lack fo power for a reason. Now imagine Kars, someone who is leagues above Dio in terms of raw strenght, getting grabbed by something as weak as Hermit Purple.

3) Experience is the only thing Joseph has going for him here. He has too weak of a ripple, and no Sun to defeat kars since the fight takes place at night by SBA. And about the range part, yes, Joseph has a range advantage, but that won't help him much because Kars' bone blade doesn't have a low range either.

4) I have no idea what kind of trick Joseph can come up with before getting bodieed by Kars. He ain't winning this fight by sheer intelligence or experience.
 
1) Joseph was confident enough that his Hamon is able to kill DIO when he last attempted it in part 3. It surely is weaker than when he was in part 2, but that definitely doesn't remove the JoJo's undead weakness to it. Pre-training Joseph was able to mash a part of Whammu's head in with his cracker volley filled Hamon, and while he is probably not at that level, he'll definitely get more opportunities to use his hamon than he could in part 2.

2) Unless you're gonna start saying that characters like Speedwagon is going to be able to start hitting Stands, this one moment of DIO breaking out of HP is either an outlier or a feat on DIO's behalf. Kars isn't a Stand user and wouldn't notice something such as HP touching him, especially as he normally ignores things that are extremely weak, as you said. He'd, at most, feel something touch him, but he'd ignore it as he does most other weak things.

3) Experience is a huge thing is Joseph favor as he abuses it as much as possible. He'd know the tricks Kars would pull and have a good idea on how to counter it. Plus, HP's several meters >> Kars' extended melee range.

4) Joseph is a smart fellow, reason he didn't show it off as much in part 3 is due to the fact the most of his enemies were a mystery to him. Once he gets an idea about them, he knows how to deal with them (using tar on Empress, sandwiching Mariah, wrapping HP infused with Hamon around himself against DIO). Against an old foe like Kars will be easy for him to deal with as he knows what works, Kars isn't anywhere as much of a mystery as the random Stand users of part 3.
 
What stops Kars from just using his light blade to saw Joseph into pieces, similar to how he did against the germans in Part 2?
 
Depends on range, mostly, which is where his extended melee reach comes from, I believe. And if SBA starts them at the furthest's range, Joseph has the advantage as HP is several meters (around 10). Plus Joseph would know about the light blade, so he'd be cautious around them
 
1) Dio isn't Kars, he's much weaker. BoBT Joseph could easily damage Straizo but wasn't doing much to Wammu. And about the Cracker Volley technique, it only harmed Wammu superficially and he immediately recovered from it. Plus, Wammu purposefully let Joseph attack home because he wanted to see what he could do. Kars doesn't care about that.

2) What point are you trying to make? Even if Kars can't couch Hermit Purple, he can still overpower its strength. And about the ignoring part, Kars would just run straight at Joseph before the latter could be capable of using his Hamon, just leaving him with a very weak Overdrive.

3) Yeah, but Joseph has nothing to work with. he has no substantial weapons to significantly damage Kars, nor he can get him under the sunlight, unless you wanna argue he would try running around for over 6 hours, waiting for the sun to rise.

4) What I said above. And the majority of Stand Users were barely above 10-A.
 
1) Wammu was actually caught off guard by the cracker volley technique as it had missed and he had fully believed the attack has failed. And while DIO isn't Kars, it shows that Joseph still has a strong amount of hamon left in him. Kars can still be harmed by hamon and being filled with it by something he can't see is definitely going to catch him off guard.

2) HP isn't reliant on its strength. Kars isn't really going to be breaking out of HP unless he can interact with it, otherwise it'll just shape around him. And while Kars can definitely run at Joseph, that's just shortening the distance the hamon has to travel to hit him.

3) Joseph may have no weapons, but he does have the location of Venice in general to work with with building for him to whip around from and a lake he can use, and as water does, it conducts hamon quite well.

4) Stand battles are more about the mind regardless, doesn't matter if they're 10-A or not as their Stands were the real issue he had to deal with.
 
One should mention that it's said that the crackers are made of steel, which is said not to be too great at conducting hamon, and had been sepearated from Joseph for a few seconds, so it would have probably been weaker than a direct Hamon blow from untrained Joseph, so saying that weaker-than-peak hamon from Joseph wouldn't be able to seriously harm Kars is wrong imo. With the massive advantage HP gives him, I think Joseph takes it

Also, does this count as a necro? I think that's only when the thread has been dead for over a month, sorry if I'm wrong.
 
Tfw Joseph can beat Kars but DIO with The World can't
 
Armorchompy said:
One should mention that it's said that the crackers are made of steel, which is said not to be too great at conducting hamon, and had been sepearated from Joseph for a few seconds, so it would have probably been weaker than a direct Hamon blow from untrained Joseph, so saying that weaker-than-peak hamon from Joseph wouldn't be able to seriously harm Kars is wrong imo. With the massive advantage HP gives him, I think Joseph takes it

Also, does this count as a necro? I think that's only when the thread has been dead for over a month, sorry if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
No no you're ok. A month is usually the accepted time period so you're ok

I'd say you're right about hamon and clackers. Joseph used whatever hamon he could to just put even a little bit into them even though they don't conduct them well. However, I'd say Joseph has lost his cheeky cleverness over the years and is less likely to outsmart Kars
 
I mean, personally I don't find it surprising that Joseph managed to take it.

Him having prior knowledge is a huge factor and despite his old age, he still knows how to use his hamon and intelligence to take down foes along with his Stand. For example, in his fight with DIO, he almost tricked him into punching him with The World when he was protected with Hermit Purple and hamon. Even earlier he created a map with Hermit Purple using debris to find a tar pit to dip Empress into and finished her off (he even knew what her next line was) while he used hamon in his fight against Mariah to crush her with Avdol.

I'm sure Joseph would've exhibited more clever tactics and such, but of course he had to be nerfed for Jotaro and the rest of the Crusaders to have the spotlight with their own Stands. This arguably even happened to Jotaro in Part IV where his time stop was reduced to a mere second or something as opposed to his former five.
 
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