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4-A tournament: Kate vs. Hirudegarn

Don´t know anything about Kate and her powers are not too crazy to Hirudegarn to handle

For what I see kate has a scaling chain that starts in: 319.624439918 ExaFoe

Hirudegarn is 136.8 exafoe with also a scaling chain but not as great as Kate

His win condition is the absurd LS difference and being extremely hard to defeat for his habit of being intangible when not attacking

Could go either way in my opinion

​

 
Don't know how much this would change the match, but Kate should have Soul Damage. As per Tokusatsu profiles' tradition, some powers are bound to be forgotten.

But I also have one extra flaw, in that I have not watched the series Kate is in so I don't know much about her that can actually turn any tides. Which means I'll take the word of our resident2ndratespirit detective on it going either way.

But to attempt an argument anyway, I think Kate can summon her other monsters should Zetton (her main one) get restrained. Well, Zetton can teleport but budget and his rather minor antagonist role made it so we don't we see that in the show...

Not sure if Soul Damage means Kate's monsters can affect Hirudegarn's intangibility.

On another note, I don't think Kate being targeted will be a problem because like I said, multiple monsters can be summoned, plus Zetton himself can just pick her up and teleport.

Ultimately though, I'm not sure how these will affect the match because there are likely more factors I'm not considering right now.
 
Mr.Cutlery said:
Don't know how much this would change the match
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I though that the girl was transforming into the monsters you know?

how does her sealing work?, because that is one way of her winning, via being a Pokemon master, and It stills could fail with Hirudegarn intangibility

Also, this is not Dragon Ball where the planet is never in risk of being destroyed, if one attack hits The Earth, what would happened to Kate?
 
she has no soul manipulation and her sealing only works on monsters in the ultra series
 
Yeah, Soul Damage is erroneously left out, which honestly is my bad since I'm one of the 2 only supervisors of the verse.┗(´ε｀*)┓

And yeah, Sealing isn't exactly a viable win con since I believe her device has a limit to how much she can hold. Plus the whole thing about it not working on other verse's monsters, possibleh.

I really don't remember much about Reionics in general, but if Kate's physiology is anything like other aliens, being left in space shouldn't be a problem for her. Is it obvious I'm not the best debater for this match yet?
 
For me, this is inconclusive or Hirudegarn win, because the monsters itself are stupid (I could only find Zetton´s page) and only Kate could viable find Hirudegarn weakness, but the range Hirudegarn has and Kate lacks of any type of Fire resistance to Hirudegarn fire breath could be her doom

And because this is dbz anime, Goku survive this while Hirudegarn almost one shotted Vegeta ss2 with his fire who needed to use a Ki shield (also, because if he did not use it, civilians would have died)

So the Fire is gonna mess up Kate
 
Yeah the other monsters don’t actually have pages yet. Made pages for the Reionics since I already had their profiles ready.

Can’t Gan-Q just absorb Hirudegarn? Like Gan-Q was able to absorb Gaia.

Pretty sure Vegeta only used the shield to protect the normal citizens not himself. Also Kate doesn’t actually need to be on the battlefield. The first time she fought Rei she was no where near the battlefield and simply sent out her monsters to attack him while telepathically communicating with him. Her monsters can all act on their own. And wasn’t there a rule about Pokemon trainers and things similar to Pokemon trainer not being attackable in vsbattles or something? Or am I misremembering things?
 
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Looking at the video Hirudegarn still has to turn tangible in order to attack. And it can be hit via sheer numbers and surprise attacks. Kate can summon all her monsters at once all of which scale far above characters that stomp characters that are 319.624439918 ExaFoe.

Kate‘s Zetton >> Kate’s Fire Golza > Kate’s Gan-Q ≈ Rei’s Gomora ≈ Ultra Brothers (Heisei Era) = Base Mebius > Xenon >= Max > Junis Mode Nexus > Chaos Ultraman = Corona Mode Cosmos > Gaia SV (>>319.624439918 ExaFoe)

And that's the AP durability wise Fire Golza is capable of shrugging off Gomora's Super Oscillatory Wave with no damage (The subs are just incorrect it actually said that attack doesn't work on Fire Golza's iron skin. Not to mention Super Oscillatory Wave is a shockwave not fire attack). Zetton is far stronger and more durable than Fire Golza. So Hirudegarn might not even be able to hurt her stronger monsters in the first place. Also Gan-Q can spawn mini duplicates of itself to attack and they themselves are durable enough to block attacks from Base Litra who is somewhat comparable to Gomora.

Plus like I said Kate doesn't need to be on the battlefield. And would Hirudegarn even in character blow up the planet? From the fight it just seems to rampage around and destroy things over time like most monsters seem to do.
 
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With that reasoning then at least Kate has more reasons to win

And Hildegarn scaling would be like:

Majin buu<-- Goku ss3 <-- gotenks ss3<--- super buu<--- Gohan ultimate <--- Hildegarn

Not counting the extra training Gohan could have got via being a super hero with Videl and wanting to protect the city
 
Peter1129 said:
And would Hirudegarn even in character blow up the planet
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Because Dragon ball Logic negates the fact that every single attack would destroy the planet,no

In a normal match: It would happen, why would hildergan control itself when he wants to destroy everything?
 
Kazuma_kuwabara said:
Because Dragon ball Logic negates the fact that every single attack would destroy the planet,no

In a normal match: It would happen, why would hildergan control itself when he wants to destroy everything?
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Pretty sure in a normal match we also factor in whether or not its in character for them to do that. If they do that then they do it but if they don't do it we don't assume they will. Also Dragon Ball's planet is just Earth. Ultra Series also have a bunch of monsters that are capable of destroying Earth but not destroying it with their attacks in series despite their description saying said attacks can do things like blow up the solar system instantly. The Earth not being destroyed despite having people stronger than planet lvl fighting on it is a common thing in fiction. So if they don't destroy it in character in series than they simply don't in a vs battles of similar setting.
 
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Peter1129 said:
Pretty sure in a normal match we also factor in whether or not its in character for them to do that. If they do that then they do it but if they don't do it we don't assume they will. Also Dragon Ball's planet is just Earth. Ultra Series also have a bunch of monsters that are capable of destroying Earth but not destroying it with their attacks in series despite their description saying said attacks can do things like blow up the solar system instantly. The Earth not being destroyed despite having people stronger than planet lvl fighting on it is a common thing in fiction. So if they don't destroy it in character in series than they simply don't in a vs battles of similar setting.
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I will wait for other Dragon Ball supporters, but count me in to vote for Kate if they don´t come
 
Alright so that would be two votes for Kate for now. Also not gonna lie I was honestly kind of surprised that the first match would be against Hirudegarn. Like what were the chances that a monster tamer with Large Size (Type 1) monsters fought another Large Size (Type 1) monster. Would actually love to see a match between them animated or live action if possible lol.

Though I do wonder if this would be considered a stomp. Since Fire Golza shrugs off attacks from monsters that are far stronger than 319.624439918 ExaFoe while Hirudegarn simply scales far above 136.8 ExaFoe. Also wait wasn't the scaling for the anime version of dragon ball different? Like I seem to recall somebody showing a scan where the anime version of Kid Buu is stated to be the strongest Buu or something like that. And the 136.8 ExaFoe feat is performed by Kid Buu.
 
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BTW, I found that Hildegarn can drain energy from his tail

ibb.co

Hiduregan hosted at ImgBB

Image Hiduregan hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co ibb.co

So, one has superior AP and absorption, the other has superior LS and can use that to absorb energy from it victims while dodging a lot of attacks via intangibility, literaly, inconclusive, it depends of what happens first

Edit: And it works like cell, the absorption gives him an power up, so if he absorbs one of Kate monsters, the AP debate would be in Hildegarns favor
 
Ahh so Hirudegarn can amp AP via absorption so it does have a possible wincon. Though since Kate's monsters scale way above Hirudegarn they can easily just rip its tail to shreds. Not to mention when it uses is tail to drain energy it needs to stay in its physical form which opens it up to attacks. And all of Kate's monsters have ranged attacks. And since their AP is so much higher even a few attacks from her monsters would hitting it would nearly kill Hirudegarn.
 
Peter1129 said:
Ahh so Hirudegarn can amp AP via absorption so it does have a possible wincon. Though since Kate's monsters scale way above Hirudegarn they can easily just rip its tail to shreds. Not to mention when it uses is tail to drain energy it needs to stay in its physical form which opens it up to attacks. And all of Kate's monsters have ranged attacks.
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Problem is that I don´t know the timeframe, if is instant then the range attack part is a moot point

And I don´t care too much about Hiduregarn to force me watch the movie again, I will be waiting the dragon ball supporters, for now, Inconclusive or Kate 55% winning
 
Just went to check the movie and it seems like Hirudegarn's tentacle things need to pierce their flesh to absorb their energy like Cell. Not exactly sure if that would be able to pierce through the skin of monsters whom are more durable than himself. Also Zetton could just teleport and blast him while instantly while he's still draining stuff.
 
Peter1129 said:
Just went to check the movie and it seems like Hirudegarn's tentacle things need to pierce their flesh to absorb their energy like Cell. Not exactly sure if that would be able to pierce through the skin of monsters whom are more durable than himself. Also Zetton could just teleport and blast him while instantly while he's still draining stuff.
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Post It, just for curiosity

Also, piercing attacks normally can counter a bit of AP disadvantage, with all the scaling, I really think Kate Monsters should have if anything a 5 time advantage (I counted 9 arrows while the scaling in dragon ball has like 5 and I could be forgetting something)
 
Not exactly sure if we're allowed to post link to pirate sites but the scene is at 32:25 of Wrath of Dragons. So just go to a random site and find the movie and go to that time stamp.

Yeah I do recall piercing attacks countering some AP disadvantage but still all we see are Hirudegarn absorbing humans with it. Not exactly sure how long it would take to drain monsters even if it could pierce their skin. But anyways I still vote Kate due to being able to use multiple monsters stronger than Hirudegarn. And while Hirudegarn is draining or attacking it remains physical which allow Kate's monsters to attack it. And due to the AP difference being quite large just a few hits should be enough to take it down.
 
So to recount the respective advantages and disadvantages:

Hirudegarn has superior LS, can turn intangible and teleport when not attacking, and can pierce enemies using its tail to absorb energy.

Kate has a group of monsters with varying arsenals, her strongest also having teleportation and a rather circumstantial absorption that can lead to damage boost if criteria is checked, and higher AP.

Kate could potentially be targeted or left to suffocate should the battlefield be destroyed, but the former can be remedied with Zetton's teleportation or just staying out of direct rrach since her control range over Zetton is effectively as far as she needs, and the latter with Kate's physiology most likely allowing her to survive in space, assuming she's about as alien as other Seijin. Hirudegarn's absorption might work if he manages to pierce Zetton, but again teleportation covers that if his durability somehow fails to cover for it.

Hirudegarn has lower AP, but can compensate with remaining passive or mostly on defensive, which doesn't sound very likely considering his more destructive sounding nature. He can also cover for his lower AP by absorbing Zetton's energy, and can keep a stronger grip due to higher LS.

Yeah, I wrote those parts while keeping in mind only their individual circumstances without taking the others' P&A yet. And since I've basically just reiterated everything said before, I'm seeing more favor for Kate. Lemme know if I missed some things.

All in all, leaning towards Kate.
 
wait so Kate is only 9-B while her monsters are 4-A...wouldn't just hitting hard enough be a wincon for hirudegarn
 
Arceus0x said:
wait so Kate is only 9-B while her monsters are 4-A...wouldn't just hitting hard enough be a wincon for hirudegarn
Click to expand...
Kate is not in the fight for what others are saying, she can send her monsters while playing videogames in the base or something

Like Tony Stark sending suits
 
Kazuma_kuwabara said:
Kate is not in the fight for what others are saying, she can send her monsters while playing videogames in the base or something

Like Tony Stark sending suits
Click to expand...
yeah i was thinking she'd be a top tier in this tournament but i feel as though there are more than a few characters who can deal with her
 
Well, that's a pretty massive difference in AP, looks to be about what, well over 10x? Isn't that enough to basically shrug off any attacks and one-shot?
 
Wasn’t there a thread regarding the DBZ anime years ago that showed the anime regarding Kid Buu as the strongest Buu. Like I could’ve sworn I saw a thread like that before the forum move discussing the anime scaling having Kid Buu at the top.
 
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