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Jedii Grandmaster
I think Yoda takes this low diff. A friend of mine disagrees.
Have at thee.
Jedi Grandmaster vs Master of The Order
Legends versions
To The Death, but otherwise in-Character
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Yoda vs Mace Windu
- Thread starter BruceTheBatman
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- mace windu star wars yoda
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Jedii Grandmaster
I think Yoda takes this low diff. A friend of mine disagrees.
Have at thee.
Jedi Grandmaster vs Master of The Order
Legends versions
To The Death, but otherwise in-Character
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Honeslty, I'm going to side with Mace with extremely high difficulty.
As I see it, they both cancel out a lot. In terms of raw power, they are comparable with Yoda having an edge but not enough to say ragdoll Mace or anything of the like.
When it comes to lightsaber skills, I believe Mace has an edge due to not only mastering all 7 lightsabers forms (like Yoda) but also creating and mastering Vapaad. Also, Mace has Battlemind to enhance his performance further.
But the true tipping point for me is Mace's ability to percieve Shatterpoints. That will allow him to eventually find the moment to take Yoda out, though that's going to be a long road before he gets there.
Mace 5.5/10.
As I see it, they both cancel out a lot. In terms of raw power, they are comparable with Yoda having an edge but not enough to say ragdoll Mace or anything of the like.
When it comes to lightsaber skills, I believe Mace has an edge due to not only mastering all 7 lightsabers forms (like Yoda) but also creating and mastering Vapaad. Also, Mace has Battlemind to enhance his performance further.
But the true tipping point for me is Mace's ability to percieve Shatterpoints. That will allow him to eventually find the moment to take Yoda out, though that's going to be a long road before he gets there.
Mace 5.5/10.
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@TheC2
Fair enough, but do note that Windu was instantly overpowered by Sidious' full power (that being his lightning. In fact, his lightsaber was bent almost enough to bisect Windu), while Yoda was able to block it for some time. He has a considerable power advantage.
While both are masters of all 7 forms, I would say Yoda has better feats with regards to all of them except perhaps Juyo. The dude taught Dooku everything he knows about combat, and in terms of pure skill he is stated to be Windu's equal as a swordsman. Dooku is a master of Makashi (even dueling Windu briefly), taught Ventress and Grievous Jar'Kai, taught Qui-Gon ataru, who taught Kenobi Soresu (Windu flat out states Kenobi is his superior in the form), who taught Anakin his fighting style (and whom was considered the best at it). Lastly, Battle Meditation and Force Valor both increase performance as well, and Yoda was a master of both. Mace, to my knowledge, was not. Windu doesn't have such a wide influence over other major characters in the series other than Depa Billaba and Sora Bulq, both of whom also used Form 7.
I'll give you that, but Shatterpoints don't entirely work that way, they percieve faultlines in a person and something connected to their downfall, not (as far as I know) a weakness in that person's defense. This is described during Windu's fight with Palpatine in the novel, in which he can't find a weakness in Palpatine's fighting style, only that Anakin was his shatterpoint, which he misinterpreted.
Given I spent 2 hours today debating this with a friend, I figured I'd drop a few of those points. I will bow out now.
Fair enough, but do note that Windu was instantly overpowered by Sidious' full power (that being his lightning. In fact, his lightsaber was bent almost enough to bisect Windu), while Yoda was able to block it for some time. He has a considerable power advantage.
While both are masters of all 7 forms, I would say Yoda has better feats with regards to all of them except perhaps Juyo. The dude taught Dooku everything he knows about combat, and in terms of pure skill he is stated to be Windu's equal as a swordsman. Dooku is a master of Makashi (even dueling Windu briefly), taught Ventress and Grievous Jar'Kai, taught Qui-Gon ataru, who taught Kenobi Soresu (Windu flat out states Kenobi is his superior in the form), who taught Anakin his fighting style (and whom was considered the best at it). Lastly, Battle Meditation and Force Valor both increase performance as well, and Yoda was a master of both. Mace, to my knowledge, was not. Windu doesn't have such a wide influence over other major characters in the series other than Depa Billaba and Sora Bulq, both of whom also used Form 7.
I'll give you that, but Shatterpoints don't entirely work that way, they percieve faultlines in a person and something connected to their downfall, not (as far as I know) a weakness in that person's defense. This is described during Windu's fight with Palpatine in the novel, in which he can't find a weakness in Palpatine's fighting style, only that Anakin was his shatterpoint, which he misinterpreted.
Given I spent 2 hours today debating this with a friend, I figured I'd drop a few of those points. I will bow out now.
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@Bruce
Mace was only overpowered after he got his arm sliced off by Anakin and then got blasted as he was reeling in pain. He actually held off Sidious' lightning with his saber and even deflected bits of it back at him. Yoda got time to actually mount a defense with Tutaminus in response to Sidious' barrage. So saying that Mace got overpowered while he's in pain and missing a hand vs Yoda doing it mid fight and on guard doesn't really seem comparable.
Yoda's accolades as a teacher are nice but that doesn't mean that his student's feats translate all back to him. Trying to base their performance on who produced better students is a case of judging them as teachers, not fighters. In addition, Form 7 was not something the Jedi taught lightly and Vapaad was no exception. The fact that out of the three people who tried to learn it, only Mace mastered while the other two were mastered by it and fell to the Dark Side., shows his prowess and temperment. Ultimately, both of them fought Darth Sidious to a draw.
Battle Meditation only holds sway in skirmishes, large scale battles or fights with allies. It's used to boost your comrades' performance and diminish your enemies'. It's not something that can be used soley in a one on one duel. At least, I have never seen such an example and all ones I've ever read about have never used it as such.
Force Valor wasn't just something Yoda used to enhance himself, he needed it to boost his body's capabilities to engage in Form IV, his primary fighting form. Yoda is so old that he had to use Valor to support his physical combat. That's the entire reason he used it.
About the Shatterpoint, I never said anything about Yoda's defenses. I just meant that he might find the necessary moment, decision or action that would tip things into his favor.
Ultimately, this is a highly subjective topic at the end of the day and i'm highly curious about how this will play out.
So really, let's just see what others think about it.
Mace was only overpowered after he got his arm sliced off by Anakin and then got blasted as he was reeling in pain. He actually held off Sidious' lightning with his saber and even deflected bits of it back at him. Yoda got time to actually mount a defense with Tutaminus in response to Sidious' barrage. So saying that Mace got overpowered while he's in pain and missing a hand vs Yoda doing it mid fight and on guard doesn't really seem comparable.
Yoda's accolades as a teacher are nice but that doesn't mean that his student's feats translate all back to him. Trying to base their performance on who produced better students is a case of judging them as teachers, not fighters. In addition, Form 7 was not something the Jedi taught lightly and Vapaad was no exception. The fact that out of the three people who tried to learn it, only Mace mastered while the other two were mastered by it and fell to the Dark Side., shows his prowess and temperment. Ultimately, both of them fought Darth Sidious to a draw.
Battle Meditation only holds sway in skirmishes, large scale battles or fights with allies. It's used to boost your comrades' performance and diminish your enemies'. It's not something that can be used soley in a one on one duel. At least, I have never seen such an example and all ones I've ever read about have never used it as such.
Force Valor wasn't just something Yoda used to enhance himself, he needed it to boost his body's capabilities to engage in Form IV, his primary fighting form. Yoda is so old that he had to use Valor to support his physical combat. That's the entire reason he used it.
About the Shatterpoint, I never said anything about Yoda's defenses. I just meant that he might find the necessary moment, decision or action that would tip things into his favor.
Ultimately, this is a highly subjective topic at the end of the day and i'm highly curious about how this will play out.
So really, let's just see what others think about it.
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@C2
You're missing the point. In the novel when Windu blocks Palpatine's lightning, the saber bent from it's power and almost sliced him in half.
You're missing the point. In the novel when Windu blocks Palpatine's lightning, the saber bent from it's power and almost sliced him in half.
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@Bruce
That can have just as much to do with Mace's equipment starting to fail as his power. Lightsaber blades can be shorted out and broken.
If you replace the saber with Mace attempting Tutaminus, that be different.
That can have just as much to do with Mace's equipment starting to fail as his power. Lightsaber blades can be shorted out and broken.
If you replace the saber with Mace attempting Tutaminus, that be different.
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C2 vs Bruce The Batman
HOLD ON! I NEED MY POPCORN
HOLD ON! I NEED MY POPCORN
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Got some right here, my guy.
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I thought thread makers couldn't participate (or is that limited to voting?)?
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It's only limited to voting, you can argue as much as you want as long as your not biased.
But it seems you and C2 are simply debating, assuming he's the friend you meant in the OP
But it seems you and C2 are simply debating, assuming he's the friend you meant in the OP
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No, it was another guy.
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Oh
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Anyway, While it is true regarding their teaching accolades, they don't have much feats elsewhere as Mace and Yoda use form 7 and 4 by default, therefore that is the best way to measure their skill in other forms.
Worth noting is that Mace barely was able to react to Palpatine in the duel until the superconducting loop (which will not work as Yoda is the purest lightsider in Star Wars) kicked in and even then he couldn't find a weakness in Sidious' fighting form until his shatterpoint (Anakin) appeared, while Yoda was able to disarm Sidious in the novel and is hinted to have done so in the movie.
Since you used a tally, I don't think this would be a stomp, but I wouldn't put Yoda's victory ratio any lower than a mid diff, 8/10 win. Mace would be weaker in this fight than he was in the Palpatine fight (going from fighting the darkest character in the series to the most light-side aligned in the series will do that when Mace's form uses the darkness of another character), so Mace's performance would go down unquantifiably from essentially being one equal to Yoda's. Lastly, Mace has repeatedly been stated to be Yoda's inferior, including by Mace himself, in lightsaber combat.
Worth noting is that Mace barely was able to react to Palpatine in the duel until the superconducting loop (which will not work as Yoda is the purest lightsider in Star Wars) kicked in and even then he couldn't find a weakness in Sidious' fighting form until his shatterpoint (Anakin) appeared, while Yoda was able to disarm Sidious in the novel and is hinted to have done so in the movie.
Since you used a tally, I don't think this would be a stomp, but I wouldn't put Yoda's victory ratio any lower than a mid diff, 8/10 win. Mace would be weaker in this fight than he was in the Palpatine fight (going from fighting the darkest character in the series to the most light-side aligned in the series will do that when Mace's form uses the darkness of another character), so Mace's performance would go down unquantifiably from essentially being one equal to Yoda's. Lastly, Mace has repeatedly been stated to be Yoda's inferior, including by Mace himself, in lightsaber combat.
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Yoda still wins, and bump
ABoogieYesSir
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Yoda shall win
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I'm going with Yoda here. High difficulty, but definitely Yoda every time.
Lightsaber combat: Let me just leave this video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqjkefahGU0
It's clear from multiple instances of word-of-god that Yoda is the superior duellist (Legends and Canon). In Legends, it is clear that Windu is at a disadvantage against Yoda due to the lack of a Vaapad amp. And Yoda still more holds a sheer skill advantage.
Force power: Windu was nearly overwhelmed by Papa Palpatine's full power. As noted above, he needed all his might and his Lightsaber, and a loop of Force power formed via Vaapad (Legends only) in order to bear the brunt of Unlimited Power! and redirect it back at the source. Yoda blocked that shit with his Tutaminis alone and even seemingly began successfully pushing back (in Canon). And if you look at Legends, there is no doubt that Yoda is the superior Force wielder (as is the case in Canon as well).
Lightsaber combat: Let me just leave this video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqjkefahGU0
It's clear from multiple instances of word-of-god that Yoda is the superior duellist (Legends and Canon). In Legends, it is clear that Windu is at a disadvantage against Yoda due to the lack of a Vaapad amp. And Yoda still more holds a sheer skill advantage.
Force power: Windu was nearly overwhelmed by Papa Palpatine's full power. As noted above, he needed all his might and his Lightsaber, and a loop of Force power formed via Vaapad (Legends only) in order to bear the brunt of Unlimited Power! and redirect it back at the source. Yoda blocked that shit with his Tutaminis alone and even seemingly began successfully pushing back (in Canon). And if you look at Legends, there is no doubt that Yoda is the superior Force wielder (as is the case in Canon as well).
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Have to give it to Yoda high diff here. They are basically the same but unlike Yoda, Windu's speciallty is fighting sith lords that have dark energy. While Yoda's mastery of form 4 would likely give him the little edge he needs.
ABoogieYesSir
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Yoda FRA
My boy Yoda
My boy Yoda
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Yoda: 4
Mace: 1
Mace: 1
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Soldier Blue said:
Akeelah and the Bee - Where the Hell Have You Been? HD
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@Negativity
Dealing with real life.
Dealing with real life.
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Relatable...
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Yoda: 6
Windu: 1
Windu: 1
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Yoda FRA. I mean, isn't he, like, canonnically superior to Windu? lol
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Who said that?
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hmm yeah, yoda wins. hopefully there is someone who commented above when i say FRA
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Yoda FRA
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tis le green win
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George LucasSchnee One said:
Nick Gillard
Samuel L Jackson
A lot of Canon and Legends books
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Looks like Yoda wins. But both profiles are locked
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Added.
Also, this match-up is like the one where we pit Qui-Gon against Kenobi. They both scale to the same tier and speed. Regardless of any revisions, the results can stay forever.
Also, this match-up is like the one where we pit Qui-Gon against Kenobi. They both scale to the same tier and speed. Regardless of any revisions, the results can stay forever.
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