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Garou vs Gouketsu

LordTracer said:
Do you mean 7-B Half-Monster Garou? Because he’s not a Low 7-B after he fights Rover, let alone Gyoro Gyoro.
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Oh, I assumed that he became 7-B after his fight with Orochi, since the gap between Low 7-B and 7-B isn't especially large. In that case, yea I'll change it to 7-B, though which specific 7-B Garou still matters since he rapidly increased in strength and skill. The main question is whether Garou's reactive evolution and martial arts skills would be enough to win, or Gouketsu's superior AP and still remarkable martial arts skills would allow him to get the victory.
 
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I would say Garou via RE, adapting, and superior skill. Gouketsu would have the stat advantage at the start but Garou would quickly evolve to equal out the playing field and in a few moments evolve beyond what Gouketsu can handle. Garou also has techniques that negate durability, disable, reflect/deflect attacks so he doesn't necessarily have to rely on his evolution to win. Garou wins with not much diff 3-4/10.

Also, this Garou has survived attacks that he knows should kill him or at least incapacitate so many times but he still survives and quickly becomes stronger.
 
Though Garou does indeed have a lot going for him, I'd argue that so does Gouketsu. He's the first Super Fight champion, superior in skill to Suiryu, who's also a Super Fight champion and has shown amazing martial arts skills. Even when Bakuzan, another Super Fight champion, became a monster, Gouketsu was able to easily block all of his attacks with a single hand. So I'm not so certain that Garou is that superior in skill. I do believe Garou's shown more advanced martial arts, but I'm not sure it's that much better than Gouketsu.

Gouketsu's strength is another factor to be considered. Genos believed that Gouketsu was the strongest monster he'd ever encountered, which includes Carnage Kabuto. Carnage Kabuto in Carnage Mode was capable of fighting against Superalloy Darkshine for 15 minutes and forced Darkshine to use his maximum power to put an end to him. Gouketsu is stronger than that, and it's debatable whether Gouketsu is actually stronger than Darkshine. I believe that Gouketsu is more skilled than Darkshine based on reputation and his feats, though that's also very debatable.

Gouketsu's also very perceptive, being able to determine the strength of his opponent with a single glance. Since the Monster Association's been keeping tabs on Garou, Gouketsu likely has previous knowledge about Garou's skills and the heroes he's defeated. Therefore, he could sense Garou's strength and might decide to end things quickly like he did with Genos. On the other hand, he might just do what he did against Suiryu and toy with him. I'm inclined to think he'll do the former, since he's very rational in his thought process.

I think that Garou would win, though I think it would be a very difficult battle for Garou and may leave him in potentially worse shape than he did against Darkshine.
 
I don't think there is anything that would suggest Gouketsu wouldn't get anything less than obliterated in terms of skill against this Garou. Sure he was the first Super Fight champion but that doesn't mean much in terms of skill when his opponent is Garou who is also a former Super Fight champion and has vastly superior showings of skill. And although Gouketsu is superior to Suiryu in skill that doesn't say much when stacked up against a far more skilled opponent such as Garou.

I would say Gouketsu is superior to Darkshine in terms of raw strength but not by much to the point he one-shots Garou who at this point could tank Darkshines double bazooka and match his strength. Garou's techniques, RE, adaptability, and analytical predictions could comfortably carry him in a battle of blows against Gouketsu.

Gouketsu's perceptiveness could potentially be an issue, I don't think he has enough stat superiority to capitalize on noticing how powerful Garou is.
 
Dienomite22 said:
I don't think there is anything that would suggest Gouketsu wouldn't get anything less than obliterated in terms of skill against this Garou. Sure he was the first Super Fight champion but that doesn't mean much in terms of skill when his opponent is Garou who is also a former Super Fight champion and has vastly superior showings of skill. And although Gouketsu is superior to Suiryu in skill that doesn't say much when stacked up against a far more skilled opponent such as Garou.

I would say Gouketsu is superior to Darkshine in terms of raw strength but not by much to the point he one-shots Garou who at this point could tank Darkshines double bazooka and match his strength. Garou's techniques, RE, adaptability, and analytical predictions could comfortably carry him in a battle of blows against Gouketsu.

Gouketsu's perceptiveness could potentially be an issue, I don't think he has enough stat superiority to capitalize on noticing how powerful Garou is.
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Fair points, though I specifically mentioned this was 7-B Garou was after he fought Orochi and before he fought Darkshine, so there's still a gap in strength between them.
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
Fair points, though I specifically mentioned this was 7-B Garou was after he fought Orochi and before he fought Darkshine, so there's still a gap in strength between them.
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Oh, then my arguments basically the same but Garou would have a much harder time at the start of the fight due to lower stats.

Does Garou start asleep or awake?
 
I don't really see Garou winning this, the AP gap at the start, the fact that Gouketsu has shown enough intelligence to quickly shut down potential threats and that a complete amateur in hand to hand combat in comparison to Gouketsu like Darkshine was able to land a killing move on Garou tell me that he simply doesn't have enough time to evolve and overpower Gouketsu.
 
Recon1511 said:
I don't really see Garou winning this, the AP gap at the start, the fact that Gouketsu has shown enough intelligence to quickly shut down potential threats and that a complete amateur in hand to hand combat in comparison to Gouketsu like Darkshine was able to land a killing move on Garou tell me that he simply doesn't have enough time to evolve and overpower Gouketsu.
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Honestly, Gouketsu would likely treat Garou like Suiryu or Bakuzan, a dragon-level threat martial artist, if the difference in stats is as large as one would make it out to be which would be his downfall. Gouketsu isn't on a schedule in this match and seems to always be looking for great martial arts candidates that would give him a good fight or impress him and Garou fits right into that category. Garou's only issue against Darkshine was Darkshine's insane durability being far greater than his AP so I doubt even Gouketsu's durability surpasses Darkshine's.

Gouketsu starts by underestimating Garou and treats him like either Suiryu or Bakuzan, either way, Garou starts evolving and eventually wins. This Garou's RPL and Transformation are at their peak for his human state so it won't take any time over 10 seconds at most to regenerate and evolve. All Darkshine did was the tackle then after that Garou pretty much stomped from that point on.
 
Dienomite22 said:
Honestly, Gouketsu would likely treat Garou like Suiryu or Bakuzan, a dragon-level threat martial artist, if the difference in stats is as large as one would make it out to be which would be his downfall. Gouketsu isn't on a schedule in this match and seems to always be looking for great martial arts candidates that would give him a good fight or impress him and Garou fits right into that category. Garou's only issue against Darkshine was Darkshine's insane durability being far greater than his AP so I doubt even Gouketsu's durability surpasses Darkshine's.

Gouketsu starts by underestimating Garou and treats him like either Suiryu or Bakuzan, either way, Garou starts evolving and eventually wins. This Garou's RPL and Transformation are at their peak for his human state so it won't take any time over 10 seconds at most to regenerate and evolve. All Darkshine did was the tackle then after that Garou pretty much stomped from that point on.
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So basically if Gouketsu pretty much let's Garou win, Garou wins?
This master martial artist that has shown to have an above average intelligence and with enhanced senses able to identify the strength of his opponents would simply let himself be beaten? The moment Garou starts becoming a threat that Gouketsu can identify as problematic he should kill him as per standard battle assumptions (assuming OP is using these). And that's just if we entertain the idea that Gouketsu doesn't just straight up kill Garou before he evolves.

And the examples of Suiryu and Bakuzan don't work, with the former Gouketsu wasn't looking to test Suiryu's skills but to be sadistic and rejoice in his desperation and with the latter he was making a point about the abysmal difference in power between Bakuzan and the higher ups of the Monster Association. So they shouldn't be used as reference as to how Gouketsu usually approaches a fight.

Darkshine's insane durability being far greater than his AP so I doubt even Gouketsu's durability surpasses Darkshine's.
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This is never stated anywhere in the manga as far as I know but checking both characters profiles Gouketsu actually has the same if not higher (by scaling up to possibly Island level) durability than Darkshine.
 
Recon1511 said:
This is never stated anywhere in the manga as far as I know but checking both characters profiles Gouketsu actually has the same if not higher (by scaling up to possibly Island level) durability than Darkshine.
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We are using Gouketsu at 7-B, so that would be irrelevant.
 
Recon1511 said:
This still makes Gouketsu have more or less the same durability as Darkshine according to their profiles.
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My comment was in regards to Gouketsu scaling to 6-C when we are using a 7-B Gouketsu for this match. Gouketsu's justification is being more powerful than Carnage Kabuto who in turn can keep up with Superalloy Darkshine. This does put his durability above Darkshine's Attack Potency but would that be enough to make it equal to a durability that makes it so that Darkshine can't damage himself at all?
 
Nehz_XZX said:
My comment was in regards to Gouketsu scaling to 6-C when we are using a 7-B Gouketsu for this match. Gouketsu's justification is being more powerful than Carnage Kabuto who in turn can keep up with Superalloy Darkshine. This does put his durability above Darkshine's Attack Potency but would that be enough to make it equal to a durability that makes it so that Darkshine can't damage himself at all?
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Yeah that's fair, it seems you are right. What about the rest of my points though?
 
Recon1511 said:
Yeah that's fair, it seems you are right. What about the rest of my points though?
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I'm not here to really argue for either Garou or Gouketsu and am completely content with just seeing what other people argue. I just saw something where I felt like that I should be pointing something out and did that.
 
Recon1511 said:
So basically if Gouketsu pretty much let's Garou win, Garou wins?
This master martial artist that has shown to have an above average intelligence and with enhanced senses able to identify the strength of his opponents would simply let himself be beaten? The moment Garou starts becoming a threat that Gouketsu can identify as problematic he should kill him as per standard battle assumptions (assuming OP is using these). And that's just if we entertain the idea that Gouketsu doesn't just straight up kill Garou before he evolves.

And the examples of Suiryu and Bakuzan don't work, with the former Gouketsu wasn't looking to test Suiryu's skills but to be sadistic and rejoice in his desperation and with the latter he was making a point about the abysmal difference in power between Bakuzan and the higher ups of the Monster Association. So they shouldn't be used as reference as to how Gouketsu usually approaches a fight.
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Gouketsu wouldn’t let Garou win on
purpose, he just wouldn’t be aware of Garou’s actual abilities until it’s likely too late. Gouketsu only gets a general idea of someone’s power but that’s it. The moment Garou would register as a threat it would already be too late for Gouketsu to end things fast just like how Darkshine did and he was actually able to hit Garou with a OHK attack in verse that Garou somehow survived and got up from very quickly as if he suffered no damage at all which is something Garou also did against Rover although he survived these attacks likely due to his Low-Mid regen.

SBA means willing to kill but in character, even after Gouketsu decided Suiryu should die he chose to toy with him over and over and over and this is all while he is on a schedule. This is likely how Gouketsu acts normally when he’s not in a hurry to follow the orders of Gyoro gyoro and it’s what he would attempt to do against Garou. He would probably screw with Garou just because Garou's cocky attitude and wanted to test Garou for being a person of interest to the MA according to Gyoro Gyoro.

But even if Gouketsu makes the attempt to just kill Garou immediately, he doesn't have the AP to bypass Garou's Low-Mid regeneration with damage nor would he be aware of Garou's regeneration. He would assume Garou would be dead from the first attack/couple attacks which would be more than enough to kick Garou’s evolution into high gear.
 
Dienomite22 said:
Gouketsu wouldn’t let Garou win on
purpose, he just wouldn’t be aware of Garou’s actual abilities until it’s likely too late. Gouketsu only gets a general idea of someone’s power but that’s it. The moment Garou would register as a threat it would already be too late for Gouketsu to end things fast just like how Darkshine did and he was actually able to hit Garou with a OHK attack in verse that Garou somehow survived and got up from very quickly as if he suffered no damage at all which is something Garou also did against Rover although he survived these attacks likely due to his Low-Mid regen.

SBA means willing to kill but in character, even after Gouketsu decided Suiryu should die he chose to toy with him over and over and over and this is all while he is on a schedule. This is likely how Gouketsu acts normally when he’s not in a hurry to follow the orders of Gyoro gyoro and it’s what he would attempt to do against Garou. He would probably screw with Garou just because Garou's cocky attitude and wanted to test Garou for being a person of interest to the MA according to Gyoro Gyoro.

But even if Gouketsu makes the attempt to just kill Garou immediately, he doesn't have the AP to bypass Garou's Low-Mid regeneration with damage nor would he be aware of Garou's regeneration. He would assume Garou would be dead from the first attack/couple attacks which would be more than enough to kick Garou’s evolution into high gear.
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🎵Garou🎵 fra
 
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