10-A Tournament Round 1, Match 6 (Kaname Sudo VS Strelok)

[Sergeant_Hypocrite]

Excuse the delay, let the tournament continue!

Both are 10-A (Anything above 10-A is restricted)

Both have prior knowledge of each other.

Speed is equalized

Kaname Sudo (Darwin's Game):

Strelok (S.T.A.L.K.E.R.): 1 (Psychomaster35)

I flip a coin:

 

[DaReaperMan]

I dont know either character but Strelok seems to have the edge in skill

 

[Imaginym]

Hmmm....

Standard Equipment: CZ 97B Pistol, Electric Baton, Tactical Military Torch. He can recreate any weapon he has come in contact with and has understood the mechanism; this includes a wide range of firearms, grenades, explosives, melee weapons and other simple items like torches, pens or ropes.

Fire God’s Hammer: Kaname’s Sigil enables to reproduce objects he is familiar with. However, it has limits. He can only create objects that have a clearly defined purpose, like weapons, pens or daily utensils, and doesn’t work on complex tools (like mobile phones) or raw materials. His creations last either until he loses consciousness, he touches them and decides to cancel them, or if he's more than 2 kilometers away from them. The range of effect decreases the more created items are active at once.


So, is this some kind of magical ability? Can he create them from nothing, or magically reshape materials? Or does he just have the technical knowledge to create stuff from raw materials very easily?

Given this is a 10-A match, can Kaname just magic up a gun & shoot Strelok?

If so, that might be an edge since both being at 10-A probably means Strelok is deprived of most of his equipment/armor that makes him 9-C or higher, right?

 

[Oleggator]

Hmmm....

Standard Equipment: CZ 97B Pistol, Electric Baton, Tactical Military Torch. He can recreate any weapon he has come in contact with and has understood the mechanism; this includes a wide range of firearms, grenades, explosives, melee weapons and other simple items like torches, pens or ropes.

Fire God’s Hammer: Kaname’s Sigil enables to reproduce objects he is familiar with. However, it has limits. He can only create objects that have a clearly defined purpose, like weapons, pens or daily utensils, and doesn’t work on complex tools (like mobile phones) or raw materials. His creations last either until he loses consciousness, he touches them and decides to cancel them, or if he's more than 2 kilometers away from them. The range of effect decreases the more created items are active at once.


So, is this some kind of magical ability? Can he create them from nothing, or magically reshape materials? Or does he just have the technical knowledge to create stuff from raw materials very easily?

Given this is a 10-A match, can Kaname just magic up a gun & shoot Strelok?

If so, that might be an edge since both being at 10-A probably means Strelok is deprived of most of his equipment/armor that makes him 9-C or higher, right?

Strelok still have an artifacts which would increase his statistics, decrease a damge taken to him, create a forcefield from bullets, Regen from bullets pretty fast he also have an artifact which can increase his already far bigger stamina.
And both beginning from melee range meaning Strelok just punching him to death before Kaname would create a weapons.

 

[Imaginym]

Strelok still have an artifacts which would increase his statistics, decrease a damge taken to him, create a forcefield from bullets, Regen from bullets pretty fast he also have an artifact which can increase his already far bigger stamina.
And both beginning from melee range meaning Strelok just punching him to death before Kaname would create a weapons.

Speed is equalized, so I'm unsure if he could beat Kaname to unconsciousness/death before Kaname finishes creating a useable weapon.
& yes, he can run over to go in melee, but why would Kaname let him go into melee range, especially if he's trying to create a ranged weapon at the time?
(Also, it's to a mostly neglible extent, but a gun is more effective at close range, & Kaname can make weapons besides guns.)

Anyway, do we know by how much the artifacts increase stats?
What are the circumstances where anti-bullet forcefields are created, & how do they work?

Also, I don't think they'd start at melee range anyway.
Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers.

 

[Oleggator]

Speed is equalized, so I'm unsure if he could beat Kaname to unconsciousness/death before Kaname finishes creating a useable weapon.
& yes, he can run over to go in melee, but why would Kaname let him go into melee range, especially if he's trying to create a ranged weapon at the time?
(Also, it's to a mostly neglible extent, but a gun is more effective at close range, & Kaname can make weapons besides guns.)

Anyway, do we know by how much the artifacts increase stats?
What are the circumstances where anti-bullet forcefields are created, & how do they work?

Also, I don't think they'd start at melee range anyway.
Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers.

Speed is equalized meaning Kaname wouldn't be able to run away. Like, all Strelok needs is just to catch and gg, especially with higher stamina.

He have different artifacts such as:

• Battery artifact: Reduces fire damage by 30% by making the denaturalization of proteins slower. Or creates a di-electric field around him that repels electricity a little, reducing the damage to 30%.
• Moonlight artifact: Increases stamina by 109%.
• Goldfish artifact: Reduces slashing + bite damage by 5%.
• Mica artifact: It causes Strelok to stop bleeding 400% faster.
• Jellyfish artifact: Creates a forcefield that reduces bullet impact by 2%.
• Mama’s Bead artifact: Reduces bullet impact by 5%.
• Soul artifact: Increases his health regeneration by 600%(In game he can get many injuries from bullets and well, and still regenerate pretty fast)
• With combination of this suit which a bit increases dura, the bullet damage wouldn't be much big problem for him.

And that's why the range would be melee. Cause both have restricted stuff which makes them go higher tier and longer range. And even if Kaname would create a gun, nothing stops Strelok from well, just grabbing it from Kaname's hands.
Voting Strelok.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Sterlok FRA

 

[Popted2]

Kaname can always create Chains

 

[Imaginym]

Speed is equalized meaning Kaname wouldn't be able to run away. Like, all Strelok needs is just to catch and gg, especially with higher stamina.

But they're still starting at a distance greater than melee range due to it being based on maximum range, though, no? So just create gun, possibly while backing up, then shoot?

He have different artifacts such as:

• Battery artifact: Reduces fire damage by 30% by making the denaturalization of proteins slower. Or creates a di-electric field around him that repels electricity a little, reducing the damage to 30%.
• Moonlight artifact: Increases stamina by 109%.
• Goldfish artifact: Reduces slashing + bite damage by 5%.
• Mica artifact: It causes Strelok to stop bleeding 400% faster.
• Jellyfish artifact: Creates a forcefield that reduces bullet impact by 2%.
• Mama’s Bead artifact: Reduces bullet impact by 5%.
• Soul artifact: Increases his health regeneration by 600%(In game he can get many injuries from bullets and well, and still regenerate pretty fast)
• With combination of this suit which a bit increases dura, the bullet damage wouldn't be much big problem for him.

And that's why the range would be melee. Cause both have restricted stuff which makes them go higher tier and longer range.

And even if Kaname would create a gun, nothing stops Strelok from well, just grabbing it from Kaname's hands.
Voting Strelok.

Perhaps counterintuitvely, the profiles seem to indicate otherwise.
Strelok:
Lifting Strength: Average Human (He can carry up to 60 kilograms easily and up to 80 with either the Tourist Suit and the Exoskeleton)
Kaname:
Lifting Strength: Above average human, possibly higher

Based on those ratings, it seems like Strelok COULDN'T wrest a weapon from Kaname.

Also, I'm unsure Strelok has the better Stamina. Strelok's Stamina feats seem to be based on surviving walking in an irradiated era... but doesn't radiation sickness take time to kick in?
Kaname's Stamina stat section says:
Stamina: Post-training, Kaname was able to fight for several minutes straight against a professional martial artist. During the Treasure Hunt event which lasted several hours, he was continuously getting himself into battles with other players and swam underwater in a flooded underground mall for a couple minutes without breathing. In the Hunting Game event, he got stuck on a large tropical island roaming with monsters, where he had to fight for survival while looking for food and water on a daily basis, in which he seemed to have no trouble doing.


Also, Kaname can make a Taser, apparently, & Electric Batons are part of his Standard Equipment.
The Taser is rated as 10-C, apparently. If an electric baton is also such, couldn't he just zap Strelok?

Taser

A Taser is an incapacitating weapon mainly used by the Police Force and Military forces for non-lethal arrests. Tier: 10-C Name: X26, X26C, X26P, M26 Origin: The Real World Classification: Taser, Stun gun, Electroshock weapon Wielders: Axon/TASER International, 21st Century American Law...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Oleggator]

Kaname can always create Chains

Still with artifacts which are mentioned above, far higher stamina, intelligence and experience with different dangerous monsters with different abilities and several groups Strelok should get an advantage.

 

[Imaginym]

Still with artifacts which are mentioned above, far higher stamina, intelligence and experience with different dangerous monsters with different abilities and several groups Strelok should get an advantage.

Is he the more intelligent of the two? Kaname's profile goes into quite a lot of detail about his feats of tactical/strategic skill, & looking at Strelok's intelligence section, it's more for feats of scientific intelligence, which is slightly less useful in combat.

Also, per my previous post, I question if Strelok has higher Stamina, at least comparing Base to Base.
Does the artifact ADD 109% of the base value, or does it increase it to 109% of the base value? The former means more than doubling stamina, the latter is an increase of less than 10%.
Also, Kaname has APPARENTLY fought monsters, too, going by his profile. See the stamina section I quoted. Unfortunately, I don't know the details of these monsters.

 

[Oleggator]

But they're still starting at a distance greater than melee range due to it being based on maximum range, though, no? So just create gun, possibly while backing up, then shoot?



Perhaps counterintuitvely, the profiles seem to indicate otherwise.
Strelok:
Lifting Strength: Average Human (He can carry up to 60 kilograms easily and up to 80 with either the Tourist Suit and the Exoskeleton)
Kaname:
Lifting Strength: Above average human, possibly higher

Based on those ratings, it seems like Strelok COULDN'T wrest a weapon from Kaname.

Also, I'm unsure Strelok has the better Stamina. Strelok's Stamina feats seem to be based on surviving walking in an irradiated era... but doesn't radiation sickness take time to kick in?
Kaname's Stamina stat section says:
Stamina: Post-training, Kaname was able to fight for several minutes straight against a professional martial artist. During the Treasure Hunt event which lasted several hours, he was continuously getting himself into battles with other players and swam underwater in a flooded underground mall for a couple minutes without breathing. In the Hunting Game event, he got stuck on a large tropical island roaming with monsters, where he had to fight for survival while looking for food and water on a daily basis, in which he seemed to have no trouble doing.


Also, Kaname can make a Taser, apparently, & Electric Batons are part of his Standard Equipment.
The Taser is rated as 10-C, apparently. If an electric baton is also such, couldn't he just zap Strelok?

Taser

A Taser is an incapacitating weapon mainly used by the Police Force and Military forces for non-lethal arrests. Tier: 10-C Name: X26, X26C, X26P, M26 Origin: The Real World Classification: Taser, Stun gun, Electroshock weapon Wielders: Axon/TASER International, 21st Century American Law...

vsbattles.fandom.com

No, since it means their highest own range, Kaname's and Strelok's range is indeed high, however they got restricted stuff which makes them go this high range, Leaving them only with melee range stuff.

80 kg is already puts Strelok above average human while Kaname only possibly higher, especially since the main win con aka punch to death is still option.

The radiation by itself is very dangerous. Considering the fact that he left normal with those high level of Radiation shows up how far he can whistand.
This is more impressive when Normal humans can easily die from that high radiation levels.

Battery which reduces electric damage and also attacks by electricity still exist, so it wouldn't much help.
Especially when we should consider he needs some time to create stuff which in melee range would be very hard when you're already getting damage from electricity and being punched to death.

 

[Oleggator]

Is he the more intelligent of the two? Kaname's profile goes into quite a lot of detail about his feats of tactical/strategic skill, & looking at Strelok's intelligence section, it's more for feats of scientific intelligence, which is slightly less useful in combat.

Also, per my previous post, I question if Strelok has higher Stamina, at least comparing Base to Base.
Does the artifact ADD 109% of the base value, or does it increase it to 109% of the base value? The former means more than doubling stamina, the latter is an increase of less than 10%.
Also, Kaname has APPARENTLY fought monsters, too, going by his profile. See the stamina section I quoted. Unfortunately, I don't know the details of these monsters.

As Strelok's intelligence rating says:
Genius (Strelok is an exceptional leader, survives in The Zone which is full of armed people and mutated beings, he also managed to discover that The Zone was a hole in reality caused by an unseen being, something that not even a team of scientists working together could accomplish)
He can also basically alone beat up pretty much good amount of bandits alone.
It's add 109% to his already base stamina which mentioned above.
To point out, Strelok fought different mutants.
Some of them are even have telekinesis or just can be very strong as predators.

 

[Imaginym]

No, since it means their highest own range, Kaname's and Strelok's range is indeed high, however they got restricted stuff which makes them go this high range, Leaving them only with melee range stuff.

80 kg is already puts Strelok above average human while Kaname only possibly higher, especially since the main win con aka punch to death is still option.

80 is the higher of Strelok's 2 values, & it's with equipment. Not only that, it's where Above Average Human BEGINS.
(That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Strelok's LS ratings needed revising after this, presuming he has better feats.)
Punching someone to death is difficult if they're actively trying to avoid you. Also:

"Post-training, Kaname was able to fight for several minutes straight against a professional martial artist."
Also, from the feats section on Kaname's profile:

• He fought for a few minutes straight against Alexeï Berdennikov, strong enough to shatter concrete with his fists, without getting hit once and make him accept his alliance proposal.
• With a lance, he fought on par with a master spearsman and then engaged in a fist-fight with him, managing to knock him out. He was mildly tortured before that.

Even if Kaname isn't trying to distance himself from Strelok, I don't think Strelok will be hitting him that easily when the dude has feats like dodging an actual skilled boxer without getting hit even ONCE. Nevermind Strelok knocking him out with ease. & presumably, Kaname can create equipment while moving.

The radiation by itself is very dangerous. Considering the fact that he left normal with those high level of Radiation shows up how far he can whistand.
This is more impressive when Normal humans can easily die from that high radiation levels.

Yes, radiation can easily kill humans, but....
doesn't radiation not actually show its effects until minutes or hours after exposure? If the symptoms don't kick in immediately, walking around the irradiated area is a bit less of a Stamina feat, if the way it taxes your Stamina doesn't happen until much later, especially if you could be inactive or be being treated afterwards.
Does the radiation have IMMEDIATE effects upon exposure?

Battery which reduces electric damage and also attacks by electricity still exist, so it wouldn't much help.

Typically, don't tasers negate durability, as their means of electricity does? Shouldn't 30% of a taser's voltage still have a notable impact on a human?
Also, as far as I can tell, its property of attacking with electricity isn't listed on the profile, erroneous as that may be.

• Battery artifact: Reduces fire damage by 30% by making the denaturalization of proteins slower. Or creates a di-electric field around him that repels electricity a little, reducing the damage to 30%.

As Strelok's intelligence rating says:
Genius (Strelok is an exceptional leader, survives in The Zone which is full of armed people and mutated beings, he also managed to discover that The Zone was a hole in reality caused by an unseen being, something that not even a team of scientists working together could accomplish)

Yes, I read it. & that is great sort of scientific achievement knowledge, but knowing why there's a hole in reality or how to establish living conditions in unfamiliar environments are less pertinent to winning a fistfight. Also, see Kaname's feats that I cited earlier in this post.

& Kaname, ostensibly, isn't stupid himself. Quoting his profile:

Intelligence: Kaname has average intelligence, but is great at using his knowledge and quick-witted. He is very good at applying his knowledge to the battles of the Darwin’s Game and at thinking of strategies for either himself or his clan, even when he doesn’t have much information on the situation at his disposal. His plans made his team capable of beating the "Eighth" clan twice. He also seems to have good and solid knowledge of vehicles, animals, and guns.

• He is the only person to have uncovered the secret behind the Treasure Hunting event, with Rein's help.
• He has perfectly mastered the reproduction for dozens of weapons, both melee ones and firearms, not only in shape but also in durability and power.
• He is the very first player to ever defeat Shuka the “Undefeated Queen”, a Rank A player who had 49 victories and 0 losses in her record. He defeated her in a warehouse by only using a tactical military torch, an electric baton, a CZ 97B Pistol (none of which he used to hit her) and his wits.

I agree that Strelok is intelligent, but I think Kaname's intelligence feats are of types that have more relevance in this type of battle.

He can also basically alone beat up pretty much good amount of bandits alone.

Again, I point to Kaname's actual fist fight skill feats listed above. As well as this feat on his profile.

• He won a 3-vs-1 and then a 5-vs-1 fight against armed members of the "Eighth" Clan (with shotguns and submachine guns) with only his CZ 97B pistol, a knife and a machete. He was several meters away from them before the fight.

It's add 109% to his already base stamina which mentioned above.

So it more than doubles Strelok's Stamina? Nice!

 

[Oleggator]

80 is the higher of Strelok's 2 values, & it's with equipment. Not only that, it's where Above Average Human BEGINS.
(That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Strelok's LS ratings needed revising after this, presuming he has better feats.)
Punching someone to death is difficult if they're actively trying to avoid you. Also:

"Post-training, Kaname was able to fight for several minutes straight against a professional martial artist."
Also, from the feats section on Kaname's profile:

• He fought for a few minutes straight against Alexeï Berdennikov, strong enough to shatter concrete with his fists, without getting hit once and make him accept his alliance proposal.
• With a lance, he fought on par with a master spearsman and then engaged in a fist-fight with him, managing to knock him out. He was mildly tortured before that.

Even if Kaname isn't trying to distance himself from Strelok, I don't think Strelok will be hitting him that easily when the dude has feats like dodging an actual skilled boxer without getting hit even ONCE. Nevermind Strelok knocking him out with ease. & presumably, Kaname can create equipment while moving.

Yes, radiation can easily kill humans, but....
doesn't radiation not actually show its effects until minutes or hours after exposure? If the symptoms don't kick in immediately, walking around the irradiated area is a bit less of a Stamina feat, if the way it taxes your Stamina doesn't happen until much later, especially if you could be inactive or be being treated afterwards.
Does the radiation have IMMEDIATE effects upon exposure?

Typically, don't tasers negate durability, as their means of electricity does? Shouldn't 30% of a taser's voltage still have a notable impact on a human?
Also, as far as I can tell, its property of attacking with electricity isn't listed on the profile, erroneous as that may be.

• Battery artifact: Reduces fire damage by 30% by making the denaturalization of proteins slower. Or creates a di-electric field around him that repels electricity a little, reducing the damage to 30%.

Yes, I read it. & that is great sort of scientific achievement knowledge, but knowing why there's a hole in reality or how to establish living conditions in unfamiliar environments are less pertinent to winning a fistfight. Also, see Kaname's feats that I cited earlier in this post.

& Kaname, ostensibly, isn't stupid himself. Quoting his profile:

Intelligence: Kaname has average intelligence, but is great at using his knowledge and quick-witted. He is very good at applying his knowledge to the battles of the Darwin’s Game and at thinking of strategies for either himself or his clan, even when he doesn’t have much information on the situation at his disposal. His plans made his team capable of beating the "Eighth" clan twice. He also seems to have good and solid knowledge of vehicles, animals, and guns.

• He is the only person to have uncovered the secret behind the Treasure Hunting event, with Rein's help.
• He has perfectly mastered the reproduction for dozens of weapons, both melee ones and firearms, not only in shape but also in durability and power.
• He is the very first player to ever defeat Shuka the “Undefeated Queen”, a Rank A player who had 49 victories and 0 losses in her record. He defeated her in a warehouse by only using a tactical military torch, an electric baton, a CZ 97B Pistol (none of which he used to hit her) and his wits.

I agree that Strelok is intelligent, but I think Kaname's intelligence feats are of types that have more relevance in this type of battle.

Again, I point to Kaname's actual fist fight skill feats listed above. As well as this feat on his profile.

• He won a 3-vs-1 and then a 5-vs-1 fight against armed members of the "Eighth" Clan (with shotguns and submachine guns) with only his CZ 97B pistol, a knife and a machete. He was several meters away from them before the fight.

So it more than doubles Strelok's Stamina? Nice!

Still this would be the case when one is on that level while another only possible can reach that level.
To point out there's still higher stamina and regen, and since both are equally experienced it should be an equal battle but still would give big problems with weapon creation and Kaname wouldn't stay for so long as Strelok. Especially when stamina is higher and Regen can't be bypassed much by Kaname especially in fist fight.

The entire area where game events are happening is have large amount of radiation, so Strelok pretty much whistanding radiation for days, weeks and likely months straight.

Now a showcase of what kinds of electricity Strelok can withstand with batteries:
Far superior than Taser kinds of electricity.

Strelok is able to fight with same large group amount of people also if not higher. 1 faction can contain for tens of people and Strelok even can defeat military experienced group of people. And well, military experience is contains weapon and martial arts mastery.

 

[Oleggator]

Although I guess this is at the moment the most closest and badass match up of tournament.

 

[Imaginym]

A bit sleepy at the moment, so I'll probably reply in more detail later rather than sooner. Apologies for any bother. Also, for what it's worth, I've found this a very enjoyable debate so far. (No offense, disrespect or disparagement meant to you, nor upon your arguments.) Please pardon the delay, & I hope I do not take too long.

 

[Oleggator]

A bit sleepy at the moment, so I'll probably reply in more detail later rather than sooner. Apologies for any bother. Also, for what it's worth, I've found this a very enjoyable debate so far. (No offense, disrespect or disparagement meant to you, nor upon your arguments.) Please pardon the delay, & I hope I do not take too long.

No problem, it's really actually fun match-up.

 

[Imaginym]

No problem, it's really actually fun match-up.

That's good. After all, at least in my opinion, Versus Threads are just debates with little stakes other than deciding what result is eligible to go on profiles. So if they're to be done at all, people should have fun in them.

 

[DaReaperMan]

They start at Standard Melee Range due to SBA

 

[Sergeant_Hypocrite]

Bump

 

[Lou_change]

Bump

 

[DaReaperMan]

Bump

 

[Oleggator]

Does it me, or you guys thought both at same time to bump?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Does it me, or you guys thought both at same time to bump?

Perhaps we worked together, or perhaps not

 

[Oleggator]

Also list of mutants Strelok have witnessed and fought, which are even by look far more dangerous than people with guns: https://stalker.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_mutants

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also list of mutants Strelok have witnessed and fought, which are even by look far more dangerous than people with guns: https://stalker.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_mutants

Awww look they are on drugs! Its so cute!

 

[Sergeant_Hypocrite]

Bump

 

[DaReaperMan]

Bump

 

[Oleggator]

(also as I voted for Strelok can my vote get counted?)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Guy I worked on in a CRT FRA(Strelok)

 

[Lou_change]

Strelok FRA

 

[Psychomaster35]

Update the votes, there are 4 who voted Strelok

 

[Imaginym]

Still this would be the case when one is on that level while another only possible can reach that level.

I don't know what you mean by this. Still, going by ratings, Strelok's upper end Lifting Strength is less than the MINIMUM for Kaname's ratings.
I don't think Strelok could physically disarm Kaname, even if he DID end up in a position to do so; Most opponents aren't going to let you grab their dominant hand, & Kaname is decently skilled. Even if he's not on Strelok's level, he should be able to keep up briefly.

To point out there's still higher stamina and regen, and since both are equally experienced it should be an equal battle but still would give big problems with weapon creation and Kaname wouldn't stay for so long as Strelok. Especially when stamina is higher and Regen can't be bypassed much by Kaname especially in fist fight.

I mean, the match could end quite quickly. All Kaname has to do is be retreating from Strelok, & creating a gun; Using your superpower & running should be easy to do both of at once. Kaname is plenty skilled in a fight, so he should be able to dodge long enough to have enough time to be able to create his gun & then fire the 9-C weapon.
Once a firearm is involved, doesn't the nature of the fight change quite a bit?

The entire area where game events are happening is have large amount of radiation, so Strelok pretty much whistanding radiation for days, weeks and likely months straight.

Now a showcase of what kinds of electricity Strelok can withstand with batteries:
Far superior than Taser kinds of electricity.

Fair point, so Strelok probably tolerates very high amount of Electricity & Radiation. If this is his baseline, I'm surprised Resistance to Electricity Manipulation isn't on his profile.
Also, was Strelok actually hit in the video you showed off, assuming it's gameplay footage?

Strelok is able to fight with same large group amount of people also if not higher. 1 faction can contain for tens of people and Strelok even can defeat military experienced group of people. And well, military experience is contains weapon and martial arts mastery.

But if we're arguing fist fights, what are Strelok's feats for fist fights & melee combat & such? Isn't he usually using firearms? I'm not sure what general military training entails, & how it compares to fighting a professional boxer & not getting hit once, or fighting a master spearman in a spear-fight then beating them in a fist fight immediately following.


Regarding Regeneration, Strelok's caps at:
Mid-Low: The ability to heal wounds that would normally leave large scars, such as severe burns or deep injuries. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating damage that would normally leave large dents and openings.

How long does this take to take effect?
(In theory, couldn't Kaname also create a grenade or other explosives?)


I think for Kaname to win here, it's just a matter of dodging in melee range for a few seconds, conjuring up a 9-C weapon, then firing, & I think Kaname's feats support him being able to do that for long enough.
Not to mention, in terms of tactical skill, combined with his equipment creation abilities, I think Kaname has the more useful Intelligence in this match.
& going by the LS ratings, Kaname's MINIMUM LS is higher than the upper estimate of Strelok's with equipment.

Strelok definitely has better Stamina, but I'm not sure it'll be enough once weapons above their tiers get conjured into the match, & at melee range, dodging them isn't easy, I imagine.

(Sorry about the huge delay.)

 

[Oleggator]

(no problem, a bit busy myself but would also write some arguments).

 

[Sergeant_Hypocrite]

Bump

 

[Oleggator]

OK I come back so

I don't know what you mean by this. Still, going by ratings, Strelok's upper end Lifting Strength is less than the MINIMUM for Kaname's ratings.
I don't think Strelok could physically disarm Kaname, even if he DID end up in a position to do so; Most opponents aren't going to let you grab their dominant hand, & Kaname is decently skilled. Even if he's not on Strelok's level, he should be able to keep up briefly.

Well, basically I meant the fact that Strelok is high end average and baseline above average human, while Kaname is just above average and possibly higher, so Strelok it's more likely have direct reasoning for AAH LS instead of Kaname(who just got this on profile... I guess just because, no really, verse doesn't have a reasoning for that LS, considering it is more likely baseline). Kaname can keep up, but there's still enough chances for Strelok overpowering Kaname.

I mean, the match could end quite quickly. All Kaname has to do is be retreating from Strelok, & creating a gun; Using your superpower & running should be easy to do both of at once. Kaname is plenty skilled in a fight, so he should be able to dodge long enough to have enough time to be able to create his gun & then fire the 9-C weapon.

It wouldn't be much easy, like, let's try to take position, there's you and in front of you in melee range which is lesser than meter is another fighter, you want to run away but for that you need not only turn but guarantee a success of running away by brief running, but your opponent before you will have time to turn and run with equal speed already can kick you so hard that you can fall which can fail the tactic of running away, you can also start to punch first and then running away, but your opponent can straight punch you too, or grab you instead. A lot of possibilities but more likely running away tactic would lead to a failure.

Fair point, so Strelok probably tolerates very high amount of Electricity & Radiation. If this is his baseline, I'm surprised Resistance to Electricity Manipulation isn't on his profile.
Also, was Strelok actually hit in the video you showed off, assuming it's gameplay footage?

He did took a damage but not much(with more batteries he didn't even took a damage), taser after that would be a child play for him.

But if we're arguing fist fights, what are Strelok's feats for fist fights & melee combat & such? Isn't he usually using firearms? I'm not sure what general military training entails, & how it compares to fighting a professional boxer & not getting hit once, or fighting a master spearman in a spear-fight then beating them in a fist fight immediately following.

I mean, there's still allowed to beat the game with only knife on your hand (which is even possibly something that allowed Strelok to use here), and well looking on the professional boxer tier I guess Kaname also didn't do much against him. While Spearman isn't much fist fighting feat. And well Strelok litteraly can beat a group of more than 5 people with guns, by regular knife.

Regarding Regeneration, Strelok's caps at:
Mid-Low: The ability to heal wounds that would normally leave large scars, such as severe burns or deep injuries. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating damage that would normally leave large dents and openings.

How long does this take to take effect?
(In theory, couldn't Kaname also create a grenade or other explosives?)

Not much, it's something like that when you get damage in shooters but after some time you're absolutely ok. And also since Strelok can't wield his guns on the match, he can wield his medicament and food which also are insta heal. He even can be fine after several shots to him (including such a weapons like shotgun), but that's more already stamina part.

I think for Kaname to win here, it's just a matter of dodging in melee range for a few seconds, conjuring up a 9-C weapon, then firing, & I think Kaname's feats support him being able to do that for long enough.
Not to mention, in terms of tactical skill, combined with his equipment creation abilities, I think Kaname has the more useful Intelligence in this match.
& going by the LS ratings, Kaname's MINIMUM LS is higher than the upper estimate of Strelok's with equipment.

Strelok definitely has better Stamina, but I'm not sure it'll be enough once weapons above their tiers get conjured into the match, & at melee range, dodging them isn't easy, I imagine.

(Sorry about the huge delay.)

To point out Kaname doesn't have high chances to run away and create a weapon, but even if he would. Strelok would whistand and easily recover shots with understanding that guy have gun and would change tactic, would hide and prepair for moment to kill(as he have some decent stealth skills), considering his higher stamina and more ways to learn on mistake he would last longer on this scenario or would just kill him in unexpected moment, especially if give him some kind of weapon, even knife or something sharp, it's New York (SBA), there definitely would be something sharp to use.

 

[Imaginym]

It wouldn't be much easy, like, let's try to take position, there's you and in front of you in melee range which is lesser than meter is another fighter, you want to run away but for that you need not only turn but guarantee a success of running away by brief running, but your opponent before you will have time to turn and run with equal speed already can kick you so hard that you can fall which can fail the tactic of running away, you can also start to punch first and then running away, but your opponent can straight punch you too, or grab you instead. A lot of possibilities but more likely running away tactic would lead to a failure.

He did took a damage but not much(with more batteries he didn't even took a damage), taser after that would be a child play for him.

The point of bringing those up would be to argue that Kaname could dodge &/or make a tactical retreat (& I'd presume it's something he's used to do, if in canon, his tactics are based around creating equipment & outsmarting.) while creating a weapon.

I mean, there's still allowed to beat the game with only knife on your hand (which is even possibly something that allowed Strelok to use here), and well looking on the professional boxer tier I guess Kaname also didn't do much against him. While Spearman isn't much fist fighting feat. And well Strelok litteraly can beat a group of more than 5 people with guns, by regular knife.

But how skilled are those opponents he defeats? What do we know about Strelok's knife skills?
Also, what do you mean "and well looking on the professional boxer tier I guess Kaname also didn't do much against him."?
I'd presume that, too, but the point of the feat was Kaname fought someone who should be very skilled at CQC, without getting hit once. As for not damaging Alexel, reading, it seems to be because Kaname's goal was to get him to accept an alliance proposal, not win a CQC fight. But the fact stands that he was defensively skilled enough to not take a single hit.

Likewise, I cite the Spearman feat because it seemingly demonstrates Kaname has CQC skills, & possibly those useful on the defensive. (Such as if he needs time to create a weapon; I don't know how long it takes.).
Also, I'm not sure why beating the master spearman in a fist fight after holding your own against them in a spear battle wouldn't be much of a fist fighting feat.

Not much, it's something like that when you get damage in shooters but after some time you're absolutely ok. And also since Strelok can't wield his guns on the match, he can wield his medicament and food which also are insta heal. He even can be fine after several shots to him (including such a weapons like shotgun), but that's more already stamina part.

How long is "Not much"?
Anyway, I don't know Strelok that well, so I don't know how quickly he'd choose to have medicine or food at the ready, especially if he's ostensibly going straight for melee combat.

Durability: Athlete level without armor or with the Leather Jacket (He can barely survive being shot by 9x18mm and 9x19mm bullets, can barely survive being bitten by Blind Dogs or Pseudodogs),

Partial quote of Strelok's Durability section. He's 9-C Durability with his Armor. Does he have such during this match?
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Kaname can handle being bullet wounded as well, but I'm not very familiar with how much so.

To point out Kaname doesn't have high chances to run away and create a weapon, but even if he would. Strelok would whistand and easily recover shots with understanding that guy have gun and would change tactic, would hide and prepair for moment to kill(as he have some decent stealth skills), considering his higher stamina and more ways to learn on mistake he would last longer on this scenario or would just kill him in unexpected moment, especially if give him some kind of weapon, even knife or something sharp, it's New York (SBA), there definitely would be something sharp to use.

While I understand your logic, I question the notion of "just kill him in unexpected moment", when a lot of Kaname seems to be his Intelligence/tactical skill, & both would presumably be fighting cautious at that point.
Though I do agree, it wouldn't be easy to distance himself from Strelok, given his demonstrated skill in CQC, I'm still presuming he has a reasonable shot.

Also, SBA is Central Park, New York. I'm not sure what you could use as a weapon there. A tree branch?
(Although, they do have their Standard Equipment that's 10-A or below, like the Taser listed, AFAIK.)

 

[Oleggator]

The point of bringing those up would be to argue that Kaname could dodge &/or make a tactical retreat (& I'd presume it's something he's used to do, if in canon, his tactics are based around creating equipment & outsmarting.) while creating a weapon.

But how skilled are those opponents he defeats? What do we know about Strelok's knife skills?
Also, what do you mean "and well looking on the professional boxer tier I guess Kaname also didn't do much against him."?
I'd presume that, too, but the point of the feat was Kaname fought someone who should be very skilled at CQC, without getting hit once. As for not damaging Alexel, reading, it seems to be because Kaname's goal was to get him to accept an alliance proposal, not win a CQC fight. But the fact stands that he was defensively skilled enough to not take a single hit.

Still time is not enough when your opponent can straight up punch you.

Knife skills while pretty enough to kill opponent in a single strike, which requires pretty much skill with that weapon while opponents have straight up guns. Alexei is 9-B and well, dodging attacks is more like a speed feat, until there's scans where it required exactly prediction, cause his feat doesn't exactly says details.

(I accidentally published comment, the other stuff I will write soon).

 

[Imaginym]

Still time is not enough when your opponent can straight up punch you.

Eno

I doubt much time is needed at all, I don't think Strelok is more adept at punching than a pro boxer, & is there really enough of a statistical gap for him to one-shot a 10-A barehanded?