(1-1-0) Caine VS Cyn: Absolutely Amazing Torture

[Psychomaster35]

Now that Murder Drones is finally up to date thanks to the series' conclusion last month, I thought I'd make this, especially since they are the main antagonists of series owned by GLITCH.

Speed is equalized and the battle takes place in the Digital Circus. Both start 10 meters apart from each other:

Who wins?

YOU PARASITE!: 1 (Flowerguy2)

Callback Ping: 1 (VIZION99)

SMG4 solos both of them:

 

[Psychomaster35]

Bump

 

[Imaginym]

Caine would probably recognize Cyn as an outsider immediately.

However, would he assume it's an NPC, like 1 he made, or another human? IIRC, he makes most NPCs themselves & when Gummigoo entered TADC....

• Existence Erasure and Transmutation (Erased Gumigoo from the system with a snap of his fingers, transforming his remains into confetti as he did so[6])

But he might not try that on someone he thinks is another human entered into the circus, especially if he doesn't know of the other circus members have abstracted or such yet, right?

IIRC, SBA says the characters are at their strongest, which would give Cyn the Absolute Solver. What's his opening act here?

 

[Psychomaster35]

IIRC, SBA says the characters are at their strongest, which would give Cyn the Absolute Solver. What's his opening act here?

Pretty sure Caine will open with snapping Cyn out of existence if he knows she's not one of his members. Although Cyn has the potential to hack into and take control of Caine with a fist clench.

 

[Imaginym]

Pretty sure Caine will open with snapping Cyn out of existence if he knows she's not one of his members. Although Cyn has the potential to hack into and take control of Caine with a fist clench.

How do we know he tries that on anyone who's not a member, since such people could be new humans put into the circus, as opposed to trying to immediately snapping his NPCs being where they don't belong?

 

[DrGreyman]

He immediately recognizes Pomni as an outsider, but Cyn doesn't act or speak like a human, even more so for the Solver. Even if he was convinced they were just a weird human player he'd probably defend himself if Cyn tried to attack, or if he detected something trying to hack into the Circus.

The Absolute Solver takes hold of corrupted programs and clearly prefers worker drone operating systems, Cain might just be too different for the Solver to take hold before he gets rid of it
Or if we want to say he would never harm a 'player', then just opening a hole to the basement and throwing them away, which would count as BFR
and we know he's ok with doing that to 'corrupted players'

 

[Imaginym]

He immediately recognizes Pomni as an outsider, but Cyn doesn't act or speak like a human, even more so for the Solver. Even if he was convinced they were just a weird human player he'd probably defend himself if Cyn tried to attack, or if he detected something trying to hack into the Circus.

So, especially given mutual hostility, he'd probably try snapping Cyn ASAP?

The Absolute Solver takes hold of corrupted programs and clearly prefers worker drone operating systems, Cain might just be too different for the Solver to take hold before he gets rid of it
Or if we want to say he would never harm a 'player', then just opening a hole to the basement and throwing them away, which would count as BFR
and we know he's ok with doing that to 'corrupted players'

That makes sense, too.

 

[DrGreyman]

So, especially given mutual hostility, he'd probably try snapping Cyn ASAP?

I mean, he barely hesitated a second when he zapped Gummigoo, and that wasn't a very pressing issue

 

[Psychomaster35]

Bump

 

[Psychomaster35]

Bump

 

[Psychomaster35]

Bump

 

[Imaginym]

I mean, he barely hesitated a second when he zapped Gummigoo, and that wasn't a very pressing issue

Yeah, I suppose so.

So Caine seems someone he doesn't recognize, isn't sure they're a new circus member, but is hostile to them, so probably doesn't want them, or is at best, relucant about adding them to his "troupe", & either snaps Cyn or tries BFR-ing if he wants to decide whether to include Cyn later or not.

Whereas Cyn will fist clench to try & hack Caine.

I recall Caine freezing up for a few seconds, becoming immobile, blue-screened, modem dial-up sound & his staff flying in the background uncontrollably when he tried to remember a list of activities at TADC for Pomni.

Has Caine ever shown any other issues making decisions or deliberating?
Presumably, he takes a moment, decides Cyn isn't human enough to likely be 1 of the new circus members, & snaps.


Reason I bring this up is because this is a "Who shoots first" situation.

So who does?


Also, come to think of it, Caine is a program, & it sounds like The Absolute Solver.... Well, is it something that physically interfaces with stuff? Can it operate on something that's just data without something to interface with?

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Incon fra

 

[DrGreyman]

I recall Caine freezing up for a few seconds, becoming immobile, blue-screened, modem dial-up sound & his staff flying in the background uncontrollably when he tried to remember a list of activities at TADC for Pomni.

Has Caine ever shown any other issues making decisions or deliberating?
Presumably, he takes a moment, decides Cyn isn't human enough to likely be 1 of the new circus members, & snaps.


Reason I bring this up is because this is a "Who shoots first" situation.

So who does?

He has only frozen up when there was literally no answer to the question he was asked, like 'I'd like to leave' and trying to list activities to do in the circus after already exhausting what there is to do
Again, with Gumigoo, and more importantly Kaufmo and the players' injuries, it barely took him a second after realizing something was wrong to simply snap away the problem
I believe he firmly is the one to shoot first, though the Solver wouldn't be far behind in trying to do something
But Cyn's abilities take time.
When she tried taking over Uzi/N's cores with Callback Ping they didn't immediately fold, she was mostly doing it so they'd reveal their position

 

[Imaginym]

He has only frozen up when there was literally no answer to the question he was asked, like 'I'd like to leave' and trying to list activities to do in the circus after already exhausting what there is to do

Do you mean in addition to the example I listed?
Because if this in regards to the example I posted, then I ask: What question?



From the official Youtube transcript:
3:20
Jax: So, Caine... -[whimpers]
3:22
-...We having a new adventure today for the newbie, or what?
3:24
-I'd like to give our brand new member
3:26
a tour of the circus grounds first.
3:28
-Uh-- -Off we go!
3:31
Here, we have...
3:33
This is where your living quarters are,
3:35
as well as all sorts of other activities!
3:37
These activities may include...
3:39
[dial-up tone blares]
3:45
...Ball pits, mini golf, and more!

The only question asked of Caine there was a simple binary from Jax, & Caine regularly plans out adventures as it's the whole thing he wants the circus members to do. He obviously should have been able to answer such a question, & his BSOD & dial-up blaring was when he was preparing to list of activities.
I'd say it wasn't the question, but providing a list of activities.

Again, with Gumigoo, and more importantly Kaufmo and the players' injuries, it barely took him a second after realizing something was wrong to simply snap away the problem
I believe he firmly is the one to shoot first, though the Solver wouldn't be far behind in trying to do something
But Cyn's abilities take time.
When she tried taking over Uzi/N's cores with Callback Ping they didn't immediately fold, she was mostly doing it so they'd reveal their position

That's fair.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Bump

 

[Imaginym]

I'm currently just waiting for @DrGreyman 's response to my response to his response.
See my previous post in this thread, which was replying to this post of his, @DrGreyman 's:

He has only frozen up when there was literally no answer to the question he was asked, like 'I'd like to leave' and trying to list activities to do in the circus after already exhausting what there is to do
Again, with Gumigoo, and more importantly Kaufmo and the players' injuries, it barely took him a second after realizing something was wrong to simply snap away the problem
I believe he firmly is the one to shoot first, though the Solver wouldn't be far behind in trying to do something
But Cyn's abilities take time.
When she tried taking over Uzi/N's cores with Callback Ping they didn't immediately fold, she was mostly doing it so they'd reveal their position

 

[DrGreyman]

Do you mean in addition to the example I listed?
Because if this in regards to the example I posted, then I ask: What question?




The only question asked of Caine there was a simple binary from Jax, & Caine regularly plans out adventures as it's the whole thing he wants the circus members to do. He obviously should have been able to answer such a question, & his BSOD & dial-up blaring was when he was preparing to list of activities.
I'd say it wasn't the question, but providing a list of activities.

i meant that and at 2:30 when Pomni asks how she can leave, Cain tries to answer but can't so Ragatha steps in

but from what he said at the end of the hiccup, I think he was trying to list activities during the bluescreen and simply couldn't come up with anything
the way he says 'ball pits, minigolf, and more' made it seem like he was already 90% of the way through a list of things

he does acknowledge Jax five minutes later as if he just asked about the adventure, but he also acknowledged Jax immediately after he asked saying he wanted to give Pomni a tour first, that could just be his weird way of talking and not him actually taking 5 minutes to respond

either way, those are the only times he has shown any sign of 'pausing' to think, and none of them were when there was something to actually do
he made a quick joke before BFRing Kaufmo, Ragatha asked if he could fix their bodies and he instantly snapped his fingers, and he took a second to say that an NPC had gotten out before deleting Gummigoo

 

[Psychomaster35]

Bump

 

[VIZION99]

Voting Cyn, If Caine destroys Cyn's body. Cyn will just find another host and continues fighting Caine. Cyn can beat Caine in many ways like hacking into him, possess him, tear him apart due to strength and additional limbs. Cyn is also has abilities like shapeshifting, light manipulation, and Afterimage Creation. Cyn being smarter along with be a more skilled fighter will help her win.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Voting Cyn, If Caine destroys Cyn's body. Cyn will just find another host and continues fighting Caine. Cyn can beat Caine in many ways like hacking into him, possess him, tear him apart due to strength and additional limbs. Cyn is also has abilities like shapeshifting, light manipulation, and Afterimage Creation. Cyn being smarter along with be a more skilled fighter will help her win.

Should note that Caine can also simply send Cyn away into the basement to win, but I'll still count that vote.

 

[DrGreyman]

Voting Cyn, If Caine destroys Cyn's body. Cyn will just find another host and continues fighting Caine.

and what's stopping him from simply snapping away the second body? or any number of bodies? if he can beat 1 drone enhanced with the Solver i don't see why he couldn't do it again

Cyn can beat Caine in many ways like hacking into him, possess him

Again, the only times she has been shown 'possessing' an unwilling host they were able to fight back, and Caine is an entirely digital being running off what I would assume is a very different OS to space age drones.
Plus, the Solver has only shown influence over programs either already infected with the Solver, or corrupted in some way

tear him apart due to strength and additional limbs.

That's fair enough, she has shown more raw strength than he has, though I would argue that it may not matter. Both because of the toon force the other characters have shown while in the circus, and the fact that he isn't a physical fighter, he won't be trying to punch her, he'll either be snapping her out of existence or BFRing her

Cyn is also has abilities like shapeshifting, light manipulation, and Afterimage Creation.

What about Caine's hundreds of 'all-seeing eyes'? He can keep track of almost the entire circus, and clustering them all around where the fight is happening would prevent Cyn from visually tricking him while sneaking up behind him, or something like that

Cyn being smarter along with be a more skilled fighter will help her win.

She is more skilled in combat, but Caine is directly listed as on the same level if not smarter than Cyn is with the Solver.

 

[Bernkastelll]

This is really a close one...

 

[VIZION99]

and what's stopping him from simply snapping away the second body? or any number of bodies? if he can beat 1 drone enhanced with the Solver i don't see why he couldn't do it again

Cyn has hivemind which allows her to control multiple drones. She could attack Caine using multiple drones at once to overwhelm him. Caine has not shown to snap away multiple enemies at once

Again, the only times she has been shown 'possessing' an unwilling host they were able to fight back, and Caine is an entirely digital being running off what I would assume is a very different OS to space age drones.
Plus, the Solver has only shown influence over programs either already infected with the Solver, or corrupted in some way

True about her possession but I don't think that applies to her hacking

That's fair enough, she has shown more raw strength than he has, though I would argue that it may not matter. Both because of the toon force the other characters have shown while in the circus, and the fact that he isn't a physical fighter, he won't be trying to punch her, he'll either be snapping her out of existence or BFRing her

Cyn also has abilities she could attack from a long range like her telekinesis and black hole creation

What about Caine's hundreds of 'all-seeing eyes'? He can keep track of almost the entire circus, and clustering them all around where the fight is happening would prevent Cyn from visually tricking him while sneaking up behind him, or something like that

Cyn's shapeshifting abilities can be used to be larger and look more intimidating. It also give her large claws useful for harming Caine. Her light manipulation is useful for attacking Caine from a far distance and deals high damage, Afterimage Creation could still confuse Caine's vision even with his all seeing eyes because they only allow him to see around the area more instead of seeing past tricks

She is more skilled in combat, but Caine is directly listed as on the same level if not smarter than Cyn is with the Solver.

Cyn is smarter since she knows technology better and knows how to take apart worker drones and reassemble them into disassembly drones

 

[DrGreyman]

Cyn has hivemind which allows her to control multiple drones. She could attack Caine using multiple drones at once to overwhelm him. Caine has not shown to snap away multiple enemies at once

The battle doesn't say anything about her having multiple bodies on hand, they aren't in her standard equipment, and in the final episode she only fought with 1 body
And he hasn't shown the ability to snap away multiple at a time because he hasn't been faced with more than one hostile entity at a time yet. He could just snap in rapid succession

Cyn also has abilities she could attack from a long range like her telekinesis and black hole creation

That, doesn't really answer the point you were replying too but alright. Caine also has long range telekinesis, and complete control over the circus

Cyn's shapeshifting abilities can be used to be larger and look more intimidating.

Caine wasn't very intimidated by Kaufmo, who was several times larger than everyone but the Gloink Queen, and posed a threat to everyone in the circus.

It also give her large claws useful for harming Caine. Her light manipulation is useful for attacking Caine from a far distance and deals high damage

I already acknowledged that Caine is physically weaker than her

Afterimage Creation could still confuse Caine's vision even with his all seeing eyes because they only allow him to see around the area more instead of seeing past tricks

The point is he could keep track of more things at once, when Cyn used afterimages in the final battle she still had to actually swing at Uzi, she used the afterimages to confuse her and get behind her

Cyn is smarter since she knows technology better and knows how to take apart worker drones and reassemble them into disassembly drones

Caine created entire subworlds in the circus and has invented and innovated new sapient AIs from scratch,

 

[Psychomaster35]

Bump

 

[DrGreyman]

Bump

What do you think so far

 

[Psychomaster35]

Personally, I see this is pretty close given the "who shoots first" scenario, so I want to hear what everyone else has to say

 

[VIZION99]

Personally, I see this is pretty close given the "who shoots first" scenario, so I want to hear what everyone else has to say

Likely Cyn since she reacts to things faster and is a more skilled fighter

 

[DrGreyman]

I-

Cyn fools around a lot more in combat
Both times we've seen Caine actually deal with a threat he has reacted within seconds
And Cyn doesn't go for her instant kill moves right off the bat
Caine does

 

[VIZION99]

I-

Cyn fools around a lot more in combat
Both times we've seen Caine actually deal with a threat he has reacted within seconds
And Cyn doesn't go for her instant kill moves right off the bat
Caine does

And once Caine destroys Cyn. She will just find another host because of immortality type 6 and use instant kills moves on Caine after realizing how deadly he is

 

[DrGreyman]

Again, he could just kill her a second time
or BFR her instead

And once more, the battle doesn't say anything about her having multiple bodies on hand, they aren't in her standard equipment, and in the final episode she only fought with 1 body
They are in the Circus, not copper-9 or any other planet with drones at the ready

 

[Psychomaster35]

For the record, she only has 1 body here. And even if she did manage to come back into another body, she would be straight up BFR'd due to the Digital Circus being in a separate dimension from hers.

 

[Flowerguy2]

Honestly, from what I can gather here, Caine takes my vote.

None of Cyn's attacks has no real way of killing Caine because of the whole Toon Force and Type 5 Immorality's shenanigans he has, which I'm pretty surprise that hasn't been mention yet... my dude Caine is too stretchy to be tore apart.
Plus how could Cyn's possession even worked after getting Caine Snap'd from existence? By possessing the Human Inhabitants? They're human souls that are stuck inside a Digital Avatars, not program-based machines, they are HUMAN BEINGS with a MIND of THEIR OWN (Caine even straight up said he has no control over the human's minds). At best, the only one who I see she could possibly possessed is the Gloinks or f@$king Bubble of all things... Besides that, I don't think there's ANYONE in the Circus (Besides the dimensions) for Cyn to possessed seeing how... empty is it from Pilot/Episode 1.
After Cyn gets snapped, it's all over for her instantly.

 

[DrGreyman]

I mentioned the toon force briefly, but I didn't think it was really that important given Caine's wincons

 

[VIZION99]

For the record, she only has 1 body here. And even if she did manage to come back into another body, she would be straight up BFR'd due to the Digital Circus being in a separate dimension from hers.

So her immorality type 6 is useless?

 

[VIZION99]

Honestly, from what I can gather here, Caine takes my vote.

None of Cyn's attacks has no real way of killing Caine because of the whole Toon Force and Type 5 Immorality's shenanigans he has, which I'm pretty surprise that hasn't been mention yet... my dude Caine is too stretchy to be tore apart.
Plus how could Cyn's possession even worked after getting Caine Snap'd from existence? By possessing the Human Inhabitants? They're human souls that are stuck inside a Digital Avatars, not program-based machines, they are HUMAN BEINGS with a MIND of THEIR OWN (Caine even straight up said he has no control over the human's minds). At best, the only one who I see she could possibly possessed is the Gloinks or f@$king Bubble of all things... Besides that, I don't think there's ANYONE in the Circus (Besides the dimensions) for Cyn to possessed seeing how... empty is it from Pilot/Episode 1.
After Cyn gets snapped, it's all over for her instantly.

Can't Cyn just hack into Caine?

 

[DrGreyman]

Again, even if she could overcome the hurdle of Caine being a different entity entirely from the drones she's used to hacking, that would take time, time Caine could use to simply snap her out of existance

 

[Psychomaster35]

Can't Cyn just hack into Caine?

She can

 

[Flowerguy2]

Can't Cyn just hack into Caine?

It is stated in the series the Solver mutates in damaged/corrupted AI (Seeing how in the former after that it is stated "It took Cyn as a host", "I'm here to find which drones were infected", and even showing that Nori is the one infected)

Which is said by CYN HERSELF (Using Tessa as a disguise and tbh, they did my girl dirty), and the only time we see Cyn's Hacking/Possession is only on her own hosts that were infected (Teacher said that there's something damaged with Uzi's programming. And the whole point about the Crucifix Patch is that its used to "exorcise the Absolute Solver's influence out of a host", and Yeva is shown to be just fine using the Solver despite containing it inside her too, hell, Doll even tries to searched for it in order to not let the Solver get control of her to destroy Copper-9. And even then, I don't think Cyn would even be interested in keeping Caine as a host seeing how he is only limited of residing in the computer only), thus implying that the Solver could only take control of a damaged/corrupted AI instead as pointed out before:

The Absolute Solver takes hold of corrupted programs and clearly prefers worker drone operating systems, Cain might just be too different for the Solver to take hold before he gets rid of it

Caine, while a bit crazy, is shown to be a completely function AI and also having the ability to fixed damaged code (On GlitchX by Gooseworx, Kaufmo basically "jumbled up" Ragatha's coding to the point of glitching after tossing her around)