[1-1-0] A Waifu who likes to defeat Dark-type Final Bosses - TT Raven vs FE Nergal

[Nonynho]

Heya! This should be pretty straightforward as both profiles are simple and the conditions for them to match are too!

• White Raven restricted
• Speed's equal
• They start 2m apart
• Both are considered Low 7-C
  • Raven scales to Cy's 2.59 Kilotons and Nergal scales to Niime's 1,67 Kilotons
    • That means Rae's ~1,55x stronger, but Nergal's magic resistance should more than take care of this

Rachel "Raven" Roth - @Nonynho

Dark Druid Nergal - @Franstel

Incon -

 

[JustANormalLemon]

following

 

[JustANormalLemon]

So how we consider magic defense here? That the dragon has double the durability sinse she resists magic on top of It's natural durability?

 

[Nonynho]

So how we consider magic defense here?

I think your theory sums it up pretty well, since female characters still take magic damage and the reduction varies from character to character

That ain't a huge disadvantage or anything alike due to how Rae is likely able to outskill, as Idunn's known as one of the easiest bosses of the franchise, and definetely able to outrange (that tens of meters ain't even able to cover 2 squares like Roy's sword or many other weapons who have 1~2 of range lol)

She's also very VERY good at creating forcefields, which her duraneg magic shouldn't be able to bypass as easily

Though the duraneg should be very very dangerous and i'd give 2 or 3 attacks for it to end Rae, who doesn't have the biggest defense of all time

 

[Franstel]

Idunn is not the most updated profile but I'll still argue this.

So in term of AP although Idunn's low 7C is 1,67 kiloton, she massively upscale from that value.

• Humans in FE7 are far below dragons in strength to the point that even the Eight Legend the 8 most powerful humans in the world need to use Legendary Weapons in order to keep up with them.
• Even an old Athos (a former mage of the Eight Legend) weaker than during the war against the dragons is stronger than Niime the mage who accidentaly did the feat.
• Said Old Athos' attacks are no sold by Nergal, the main antagonist of the game whose about as strong as the Eight Legend in their prime.
• Even a regular dragon is stronger than Nergal.
• The gap between a regular dragon and stronger dragon is so big that an untransformed Ninian (an Ice Dragon) who just recovered her powers can one-shot two dragons at once and leave the third weakened and Idunn being the Demon Dragon of legends is basically the strongest dragons.

The scaling chain here is:

Niime (accidentaly did the 1,67 kiloton feat) < Old Athos < Nergal/Prime Eight Legends (no sell attack from O.Athos) < Regular Dragons < Ninian/Stronger Dragons (OS regular dragons) < Idunn (is the strongest dragon in the game)

Magic reduce the damage done by magic so here yes Raven would have to go against both Idunn regular and magical durability.

Now in term of how she fight Idunn as the Demon Dragon possess the power to create War Dragons, a war dragon is a kind of mass produced dragon that exist solely for fighting, though War Dragons aren't as strong as even an average dragon they are still above humans like Niime. In the game she summon two a turn but we don't have a value for how long a turn last so take it as if she periodically summon two

On top of that Idunn is well really huge when transformed take a look for yourself.

She can also slash with her claws and exhale darkness.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

If she is a one shoot above her value and double durability I don't see raven being able to damage her at all

 

[Nonynho]

Well, Rae or TT as a verse is also not up to date as a whole those attacks are still not bypassing Rae's shielding capabilities, while what Idunn has is reductions and can get quite easily outranged

All Rae would have to do is get away and she would still be capable of doing her chip damage while Idunn either misses her or her attacks get stopped by shields or Rae getting intangible putting her soul-self over her for a bit

I just didn't put Roy here because it'd be sad how much he'd be bullied by Rae flying

 

[Nonynho]

If she is a one shoot above her value and double durability I don't see raven being able to damage her at all

If anything, i can give Rae Starfire or Robin, so the two of them are able to deal with the other dragons and deal chip damage to Idunn strategically enough to eventually kill her

Robin brutally outskills and Starfire has healing much like Rae, so both are able to sustain a bigger combat and eventually gg her

 

[JustANormalLemon]

If anything, i can give Rae Starfire or Robin, so the two of them are able to deal with the other dragons and deal chip damage to Idunn strategically enough to eventually kill her

Robin brutally outskills and Starfire has healing much like Rae, so both are able to sustain a bigger combat and eventually gg her

they at least wouldn't have to deal with double durability + one shoot scaling

still gonna vote the dragon for now

 

[Nonynho]

they at least wouldn't have to deal with double durability + one shoot scaling

they severely outrange her so it is not impractical, no

still gonna vote the dragon for now

quite early for votes, sorry

 

[Franstel]

The chip damage is also lessened by Idunn's sheer size which make it so that the accumulated damage will only amount too minor cut unless she have very large attack.

Also is it even in character for to try and get as far as she can from her foe while fighting, i watched a few of her fighting scenes and she even seems at time to fight in close combat.

And Idunn can periodically create War Dragons to tag her which make the task of overwhelming Idunn even harder.

I just didn't put Roy here because it'd be sad how much he'd be bullied by Rae flying

You could have, I don't have a list of skill feat for Roy but I'm sure I could find some. And Roy have Idunn level scaling via the Binding Blade, the ability to send slashes at range and the possibility of just sealing his foe with a single cut if he wants to.

 

[Nonynho]

You could have, I don't have a list of skill feat for Roy but I'm sure I could find some.

How many years, more or less, does he have of experience?

 

[Franstel]

How many years, more or less, does he have of experience?

A war campagne and an unknown amount of time spent studying with General Cecilia.
His ennemies though contain people with decades of experiences like Zephiel

 

[Nonynho]

A war campagne and an unknown amount of time spent studying with General Cecilia.
His ennemies though contain people with decades of experiences like Zephiel

Rae also faces people with decades of experience, Slade for example, and has years of experience being a superhero, so she should be comparable

 

[Franstel]

Going back on the matchup, since most argument seem to have been said, unless more come I'll vote Idunn.

While Raven may possibly have the options of purely focusing on keeping range and witling down Idunn over time, she can create War Dragons to put pressure on Raven forcing her to deal with multiples threat at once and eventually corner her.

And if she get close she'd be outmached considering Idunn sheer size and AP/Dura advantage with Magic Resistance coming like a cherry on top.

 

[Nonynho]

Going back on the matchup, since most argument seem to have been said, unless more come I'll vote Idunn.

While Raven may possibly have the options of purely focusing on keeping range and witling down Idunn over time, she can create War Dragons to put pressure on Raven forcing her to deal with multiples threat at once and eventually corner her.

And if she get close she'd be outmached considering Idunn sheer size and AP/Dura advantage with Magic Resistance coming like a cherry on top.

Do you think it'd be less close to a stomp if i put Rae and Robin vs Roy?

 

[Franstel]

Do you think it'd be less close to a stomp if i put Rae and Robin vs Roy?

I don't think the match is a stomp just a decisive win (though you could ask for it to be closed) and I'd prefer to avoid using Roy for now

 

[Nonynho]

I don't think the match is a stomp just a decisive win (though you could ask for it to be closed) and I'd prefer to avoid using Roy for now

Frankly i think it's too close to a stomp, so i think i'd rather go with another L7-C
Any other Dragon or Nergal, what about it?

 

[Nonynho]

'

Frankly i think it's too close to a stomp, so i think i'd rather go with another L7-C
Any other Dragon or Nergal, what about it?

bump

 

[Nonynho]

Changed it to Nergal, who also has summoning and is strong af

Haven't added Starfire or Robin since Nergal shouldn't scale as high as Idunn in the scaling chain proposed, so Rae should be able to deal with him/with Ereshkigal

 

[Franstel]

Changed it to Nergal, who also has summoning and is strong af

Nergal's summoning is not combat applicable but yeah in term of AP he no sell someone who upscale the feat he scale to.

Haven't added Starfire or Robin since Nergal shouldn't scale as high as Idunn in the scaling chain proposed, so Rae should be able to deal with him/with Ereshkigal

So to start with what's Raven options against a dura neg pseudo black hole spawning before her.

 

[Nonynho]

So to start with what's Raven options against a dura neg pseudo black hole spawning before her.

She makes shields that no-sell attacks from people on her level faster than she moves, which should be faster than Nergal's gesture to cast the spell. Getting intangible should also not take long, too
His typical behaviour is to spam Ereshkigal specifically and don't be quite mobile, while Rae's a very mobile fighter, and while all he'd have to do, most likely, is to catch her once with Ereshkigal, she has more than enough resources to avoid it and after seeing how it operates once, she should be more than competent enough to avoid its affects until he falls

How would him, as a not-so-mobile spellcaster deal with her wide array of attacks, such as continuous beams, lasers and explosion dark spells?

 

[Franstel]

She makes shields that no-sell attacks from people on her level faster than she moves, which should be faster than Nergal's gesture to cast the spell. Getting intangible should also not take long, too

The shield won't do anything Ershkigal will pass through them as if they aren't even here. Nergal's gesture is also usually not long unless its a crit.

His typical behaviour is to spam Ereshkigal specifically and don't be quite mobile

while he is a static boss in gameplay he can still dodge and move you know, he even got instant teleportation on top of that to either go to her or teleport her to him.

, while Rae's a very mobile fighter, and while all he'd have to do, most likely, is to catch her once with Ereshkigal, she has more than enough resources to avoid it and after seeing how it operates once, she should be more than competent enough to avoid its affects until he falls

How is she dodging it the attack it cover the entire screen ? Unless she have bulshit skill like dodging particle of snow in a snowstorm or something.

How would him, as a not-so-mobile spellcaster deal with her wide array of attacks, such as continuous beams, lasers and explosion dark spells?

Endure the spells that strike him for some time till he land a killing blow since Nergal is quite durable.

 

[Nonynho]

The shield won't do anything Ershkigal will pass through them as if they aren't even here.

Hm, that doesn't seem to be the case

Durability Negation (Magic completely bypasses physical defenses such as armor, or thick hides)

And she isn't making shields that we can interpret the magic will pass like it does through armor, she's making forcefields

Nergal's gesture is also usually not long unless its a crit.

She can react to an FTL ray after it's been shoot, so any gesture is long enough

while he is a static boss in gameplay he can still dodge and move you know, he even got instant teleportation on top of that to either go to her or teleport her to him.

So can her, and we have 5 seasons worth of how she can be considerably more mobile than him;
If she's still inside his range and he tries this (hard because she'll 100% build distance up and outrange him), he'll have to TP her when she's not intangible, since i see no NPI, and if this happens successfully, he'll have a tough time concentrating on doing stuff because she's trained in martial arts by Robin, capable of shielding whatever he's trying and doing an array of spells

How is she dodging it the attack it cover the entire screen ?

Though i admit i could express myself a tad differently, avoid =/= dodge
What i spoke about shielding and getting intangible is what i meant by avoiding
(also, tens of meters is the entire screen, and she outranges him heavily lol)

Endure the spells that strike him for some time till he land a killing blow since Nergal is quite durable.

Well, since she can send exploding s* and has several other ways to disturb his concentration and has many many ways to deal with his kit while he's not a girl (so he doesn't resist magic), i can hardly see that working

 

[Franstel]

Hm, that doesn't seem to be the case

And she isn't making shields that we can interpret the magic will pass like it does through armor, she's making forcefields

Are those forcefield magic resistant ? What Nergal is bypassing is physical defense with armor being an exemple, he don't just bypass armor.

She can react to an FTL ray after it's been shoot, so any gesture is long enough

Speed is equal she won't have a speed advantage here .

So can her, and we have 5 seasons worth of how she can be considerably more mobile than him;

I'm not arguing that he is more mobile than her, just enough to keep up in a fight.

If she's still inside his range and he tries this (hard because she'll 100% build distance up and outrange him), he'll have to TP her when she's not intangible, since i see no NPI

Or you know TP to her Nergal's TP work for both himself and others.

, and if this happens successfully, he'll have a tough time concentrating on doing stuff because she's trained in martial arts by Robin, capable of shielding whatever he's trying and doing an array of spells

He don't need to concentrate to use magic

Though i admit i could express myself a tad differently, avoid =/= dodge
What i spoke about shielding and getting intangible is what i meant by avoiding
(also, tens of meters is the entire screen, and she outranges him heavily lol)

You really need to show example of how that intangibility work does she actually spam it all the time ? Is it something that she even use in comba ? I don't know there's no info on it and as I am watching some of her fight scenes, I never saw her use it

I've watched these fight (the firsts that showed up) but I won't keep searching for arguments you should provide:



And five minutes of that:

Well, since she can send exploding s*

Scan doesn't work

and has several other ways to disturb his concentration

You don't need concentration to use magic in Fire Emblem you just cast the spell by doing a movement there's no charge time or or anything.

and has many many ways to deal with his kit while he's not a girl (so he doesn't resist magic), i can hardly see that working

He resist magic, every living being (and even some non living being) in Fire Emblem do, it's just that on average women have higher resistance than men, just like how mages are more resistant than non mage.

 

[Nonynho]

Are those forcefield magic resistant?

Yup, showcased many times throught the series

Speed is equal she won't have a speed advantage here .

I meant she can pull those forcefields up faster than her general combat speed

Or you know TP to her Nergal's TP work for both himself and others.

You sent the same video of him TP'ing Ninian to himself, which i again insist she can deal with while being speed equal

You really need to show example of how that intangibility work does she actually spam it all the time ?

No, but can be used in emergencies and is quite quick, is the act to involve her in her soul-self

Is it something that she even use in comba ?

In emergency cases, the more usual behaviour (as you saw by checking her cool fights) is to shield when she's not pressuring

Scan doesn't work

oops
Well, it ain't nothing to hard to grasp, it's one of those that goes kaboom

(going again at the soul-self-intangible shenanigans: it's getting this energy around her. just like if the soul-self she'll throw will explode or not, one can't distinguish when getting this around her will make her intangible or not)

You don't need concentration to use magic in Fire Emblem you just cast the spell by doing a movement there's no charge time or or anything.

Same logic applies, what i said can be used to interrupt those movements

He resist magic, every living being (and even some non living being) in Fire Emblem do, it's just that on average women have higher resistance than men, just like how mages are more resistant than non mage.

You need to get a CRT for that, because going by the current profile it is just a guy saying "women are resistant to magic"
couldnt read the .org wiki, but going by the fandom one he doesn't even have a special characteristic indicating that or something alike

 

[Franstel]

Yup, showcased many times throught the series

Like ?

I meant she can pull those forcefields up faster than her general combat speed

Then add it

You sent the same video of him TP'ing Ninian to himself, which i again insist she can deal with while being speed equal

No watch the link, he first TP on the battlefield, then TP Nils to himself, then though I did not link it TP out of the battlefield. He never use it on Ninian so I don't know how your seeing that.

No, but can be used in emergencies and is quite quick, is the act to involve her in her soul-self


In emergency cases, the more usual behaviour (as you saw by checking her cool fights) is to shield when she's not pressuring

Could you please show a scan.

oops
Well, it ain't nothing to hard to grasp, it's one of those that goes kaboom

(going again at the soul-self-intangible shenanigans: it's getting this energy around her. just like i
Same logic applies, what i said can be used to interrupt those movements

None of her attacks seems that pressuring that Nergal wouldn't be able to speed his arms.

You need to get a CRT for that, because going by the current profile it is just a guy saying "women are resistant to magic"
couldnt read the .org wiki, but going by the fandom one he doesn't even have a special characteristic indicating that or something alike

It is, it already is accepted, which is why it is on the profile in the first place. The scan is to show that magic resistance in Fire Emblem is a thing not that only women are resistant to magic.
It's on the justification:
(Via the resistance to magic stat directly stated to exist like here)
Like: You can use like to introduce an example of the set of things or people that you have just mentioned.
n PREP n/-ing (=such as)
(Reverso Dictionnary)

Not convinced ? Here's other scans accepted on other profiles.

The monk Lucius has joined your group. Monks are users of the magic of light. Those who wield magic are highly attuned to its flow, so they have a high magic resistance.

 

[Nonynho]

Like ?

The easiest to show is the feat i presented from Doctor Light, but like the objects she imbues with magic, who could deal with Terra's geomancy on the fight you saw, her forcefields hold spells

He never use it on Ninian so I don't know how your seeing that.

Guess the names bugged me a bit, i didn't watch until the end and i thought the person he tpd to him was Ninian (because i watched other videos where people put names to characters similar to the original ones i assumed Nils = Ninian. entirely my bad)

then TP Nils to himself,

The spell first circles Nils real quick and then TPs him instantly
In that meantime, Rae can react, impeding him to effectively TP her into the spell or similars
She can also TP herself and portal around so it is quite hard for him to build advantage with it (does he use it in combat?)

Could you please show a scan.

As i'm having a hard time finding it, i'll drop the point.
She focuses more on defending with objects or forcefielding anyway

None of her attacks seems that pressuring that Nergal wouldn't be able to speed his arms.

Combining them lasers with object throwing, which she spams IC whenever she builds range (and even though he most likely is heavily upscaling from Lyn's Class K, it is still Class K vs Class G, so he should still have some trouble with them) and there could be the case, yeah
Though her main focus will be to build range

Not convinced ?

Yes i am. You seem stressed so i apologized for the insistance in that point

 

[Franstel]

The easiest to show is the feat i presented from Doctor Light, but like the objects she imbues with magic, who could deal with Terra's geomancy on the fight you saw, her forcefields hold spells

Ok

Guess the names bugged me a bit, i didn't watch until the end and i thought the person he tpd to him was Ninian (because i watched other videos where people put names to characters similar to the original ones i assumed Nils = Ninian. entirely my bad)


The spell first circles Nils real quick and then TPs him instantly
In that meantime, Rae can react, impeding him to effectively TP her into the spell or similars
She can also TP herself and portal around so it is quite hard for him to build advantage with it (does he use it in combat?)

Considering he knock out Nils right after using it yes.

As i'm having a hard time finding it, i'll drop the point.
She focuses more on defending with objects or forcefielding anyway

Combining them lasers with object throwing, which she spams IC whenever she builds range (and even though he most likely is heavily upscaling from Lyn's Class K, it is still Class K vs Class G, so he should still have some trouble with them) and there could be the case, yeah

Yeah if you're going with LS then he would get pushed around by attacks that land on him but i still believe he should be able to send some Ereshkigal.

Yes i am. You seem stressed so i apologized for the insistance in that point

Sorry if I was too agressive is was not my intent it's just that for some reason this particular point always seems to get misinterpreted by people (both on and especially off site) who jump to conclusion and then having to explain it several times to them can get really annoying.

 

[Nonynho]

Sorry if I was too agressive

That was not at all the case, i insisted on the point and later noticed further research could probably make a difference, i'm the one to apologize today

Yeah if you're going with LS then he would get pushed around by attacks that land on him but i still believe he should be able to send some Ereshkigal.

I don't consider a possibility for him to get 2 through, and if my thesis goes through, not even one, because it is not hard to see her being able to deal with his spells due to needing the gesture to perform them

 

[Nonynho]

bump

added myself as a Rae voter, FRA

 

[Nonynho]

bump

 

[Nonynho]

Bump

 

[Nonynho]

bump

 

[Franstel]

I guess i vote Nergal

 

[Nonynho]

I guess i vote Nergal

ty for the debate, i shall disturb you more in the future with FE Fates matches because i loved this game in both times i played

 

[Franstel]

ty for the debate, i shall disturb you more in the future with FE Fates matches because i loved this game in both times i played

Fate may be upgraded to 6-C of the Flora freezing the sea feat just so you know.

 

[Nonynho]

bump