Thanks for the answer. But isn't this directly contradicted in Giorno's fight with Bruno? GE implements Bruno with a certain amount of life, and all it does is make his senses go out of control. This is also the mentioned effect on human beings on GE's profile.
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Chariot190
Bruno fight happened before Giorno ever attempted that, and he also didn't attempt that on Bruno? It's not a passive ability, he has to actively pump a target full of life energy.
He learns abilities as the part goes on, in the same way he never knew how to heal early on, he tries it and it works after Baby Face. It's an ability he always had, just never used till Black Sabbath (and almost never again).
Against Bruno he simply punched him and inflicted a "passive" hax (passive allegedly, guides claim it's automatic, but can be turned off) upon him as he never used GE in a real fight before (which he learns to turn off after Black Sabbath because it backfired, guide claims GE can choose when to do this as well and can deactivate this manually).
And he actually does do this to Bruno later on, but to a lesser degree, the reason why Bruno could live for a few days longer is explicitly because of excess life energy GE gave by accident when healing him, extending his life just a tad bit longer.
Either way, yes, humans hit by GE will have their senses thrown out of wack (if he chooses), but if GE sat there and pumped them full of life energy nonstop for like 5-10 seconds, they'd age as well. This works on all organisms, the only difference is how much and how long he needs to do it. It's all the same ability, just used in different applications.
Once I get off work I'll check the guide to see if it says anything just in case.
He learns abilities as the part goes on, in the same way he never knew how to heal early on, he tries it and it works after Baby Face. It's an ability he always had, just never used till Black Sabbath (and almost never again).
Against Bruno he simply punched him and inflicted a "passive" hax (passive allegedly, guides claim it's automatic, but can be turned off) upon him as he never used GE in a real fight before (which he learns to turn off after Black Sabbath because it backfired, guide claims GE can choose when to do this as well and can deactivate this manually).
And he actually does do this to Bruno later on, but to a lesser degree, the reason why Bruno could live for a few days longer is explicitly because of excess life energy GE gave by accident when healing him, extending his life just a tad bit longer.
Either way, yes, humans hit by GE will have their senses thrown out of wack (if he chooses), but if GE sat there and pumped them full of life energy nonstop for like 5-10 seconds, they'd age as well. This works on all organisms, the only difference is how much and how long he needs to do it. It's all the same ability, just used in different applications.
Once I get off work I'll check the guide to see if it says anything just in case.
BOEGVELD
Going with the manga, though, GE only has one ability; continuously giving life. It just seems to have different effects on different beings and objects. Giorno being a bit inexperienced shouldn't change much, but, besides that, GE's profile only mentions the senses going out of control as the effect of GE's ability. Shouldn't it at least have mentioned this ability can age human beings, if that was the case?
Do you have a link to this scan? Because that changes things a bit. And do you remember in which chapter it was stated that GE's life ability extended Bruno's life? I'll have to look into that because I forgot about that. Though, of course, extending one's life by creatng new body parts out of objects is very different from speeding up one's life span.
Going with the manga, though, GE only has one ability; continuously giving life. It just seems to have different effects on different beings and objects. Giorno being a bit inexperienced shouldn't change much, but, besides that, GE's profile only mentions the senses going out of control as the effect of GE's ability. Shouldn't it at least have mentioned this ability can age human beings, if that was the case?
Chariot190
Eventually, at work. I'll take some scans when I get off.
Yes.
The life energy GE gave off extended his life just a bit.
No, the body parts aren't what saved him, though they obviously helped create a body that wasn't destroyed, what happened was He accidentally gave him excess life energy while doing that, said excess life energy was able to extend his life barely.
Not quite, it doesn't have different effects on different things (other then immaterial objects, in which Ge can transmute them), what's happening is that Life Giver is one ability, that has different applications, it's a slight difference, but an important one. There is no difference between say, a cat and a turtle. GE can do the same things to both, the species doesn't matter, all that matters is how Giorno uses his ability. Much like how Crazy Diamond has only one ability but can use it to say, heal things, restore things, or if he wants go even further he can dismantle and deconstruct an object like turning concrete into tar or fusing things together like how he fused Enigma with paper. It's one ability but can be used in different ways. And that's what Giorno does, one ability, "Life Giver", but used in different ways.
It actually does in this case. Giorno consistently learns new applications of his power throughout the part. Why would we use a scene from before he figured out he had this power as evidence against said power? But in the end it doesn't even effect anything, why? Because he never did it against Bruno.
Giorno didn't exactly grab hold of Bruno before proceeding to pump life energy into his body continuously without stopping untill he exhausted Bruno's natural lifespan. No, he merely punched him once, and in that split second put a bit of life energy into Bruno, which threw his senses out of wack. A split second punch isn't at all the same as several seconds of nonstop usage.
Why would it? It specifies it effects living things does it not? Humans are a living thing? Why would we list off a whole slew of species and animals when a catch all "living things" includes all of them? Whether it be a tree, insects, humans or reptiles, if they are alive, GE can continuously pump them with excess life energy, exhausting their life span.
While it may not be in character, and while it may not be something used often, it is something he can indeed do as long as he has direct contact and does it for a sufficient amount of time (With the famous tree example, it took a solid 10+ seconds before it began to take effect, so it's not exactly something he'd pull of normally even if he did do it).
Either way, I'll check the guide later, but point is, Life Giver has utility, it can be used in different ways, one such way is that if he makes direct contact with a living organism, GE can choose to continuously pump the organism with life energy without stopping, this has the effect of essentially overloading them and exhausting their lifespan, causing their body to accelerate to the end of their life.
Eventually, at work. I'll take some scans when I get off.
Yes.
The life energy GE gave off extended his life just a bit.
No, the body parts aren't what saved him, though they obviously helped create a body that wasn't destroyed, what happened was He accidentally gave him excess life energy while doing that, said excess life energy was able to extend his life barely.
Not quite, it doesn't have different effects on different things (other then immaterial objects, in which Ge can transmute them), what's happening is that Life Giver is one ability, that has different applications, it's a slight difference, but an important one. There is no difference between say, a cat and a turtle. GE can do the same things to both, the species doesn't matter, all that matters is how Giorno uses his ability. Much like how Crazy Diamond has only one ability but can use it to say, heal things, restore things, or if he wants go even further he can dismantle and deconstruct an object like turning concrete into tar or fusing things together like how he fused Enigma with paper. It's one ability but can be used in different ways. And that's what Giorno does, one ability, "Life Giver", but used in different ways.
It actually does in this case. Giorno consistently learns new applications of his power throughout the part. Why would we use a scene from before he figured out he had this power as evidence against said power? But in the end it doesn't even effect anything, why? Because he never did it against Bruno.
Giorno didn't exactly grab hold of Bruno before proceeding to pump life energy into his body continuously without stopping untill he exhausted Bruno's natural lifespan. No, he merely punched him once, and in that split second put a bit of life energy into Bruno, which threw his senses out of wack. A split second punch isn't at all the same as several seconds of nonstop usage.
Why would it? It specifies it effects living things does it not? Humans are a living thing? Why would we list off a whole slew of species and animals when a catch all "living things" includes all of them? Whether it be a tree, insects, humans or reptiles, if they are alive, GE can continuously pump them with excess life energy, exhausting their life span.
While it may not be in character, and while it may not be something used often, it is something he can indeed do as long as he has direct contact and does it for a sufficient amount of time (With the famous tree example, it took a solid 10+ seconds before it began to take effect, so it's not exactly something he'd pull of normally even if he did do it).
Either way, I'll check the guide later, but point is, Life Giver has utility, it can be used in different ways, one such way is that if he makes direct contact with a living organism, GE can choose to continuously pump the organism with life energy without stopping, this has the effect of essentially overloading them and exhausting their lifespan, causing their body to accelerate to the end of their life.
BOEGVELD
Animals and plants = aging.
Human beings = out-of-control senses.
Objects = turn into beings.
These are the shown effects on these specific beings and objects. Of course he can still control how exactly he uses those effects (as we both mentioned earlier), but I think it's a bit iffy to say he can control/use whichever effect on whatever being he wants. Especially without proper evidence.
Fair enough. Though my point about the life energy extending Bruno's life for a while being different than speeding up his life span still stands.
My point was not so much that there's a difference between species, but moreso animals and plants, humans and objects as groups. GE can turn a tooth into a bee to find his opponent, and turn a stone into a limb to heal an ally. Those are different applications of his ability, however make use the same effect; turning an object into something living. Same goes for GE aging a tree to the end of its life to remove the shadows and aging a Stag Beetle to an adult to attack Cioccolata. They're different applications, but these abilities use the same effect, and are always used on specific groups:
Animals and plants = aging.
Human beings = out-of-control senses.
Objects = turn into beings.
These are the shown effects on these specific beings and objects. Of course he can still control how exactly he uses those effects (as we both mentioned earlier), but I think it's a bit iffy to say he can control/use whichever effect on whatever being he wants. Especially without proper evidence.
It's like you said though, Giorno aged a tree in the span of around 10 seconds, so even the fragment of a second should have shown some effects on Bruno. Bruno even stated that he directly felt GE implementing extra energy (a.k.a. life) into him, so it's not like it was nothing. And yet the only effect Bruno noted were his senses going out of control. Now especially with Giorno being quite inexperienced, some aging should have taken place, because he did not have full ''control'' over his abilities yet.
Chariot190
Sigh. Are we really gonna do this?
I have no idea why you think there's some arbitrary groupings that have never been established it stated ever besides living And nonliving.
Youre also ignoring context, taking things in a vacuum, and making up some arbitrary limitation of "Life Giver has exclusive effects on certain animals that are unique to them", rather then "GE can choose how to implement his ability", especially when the latter is explicitly shown and confirmed. We've seen LG effect the same species but in different ways, simply because GE wanted it to.
If iring your example with Bruno is a tremendous false equivalence as he touched Bruno for maybe a millionth of a second and ejected only a tiny bit if energy. Meanwhile to age he needs to give a sufficient amount. For something like an evergreen, something with a lifespan on par with humans, he needed to give life energy nonstop continually. Not a second, not one touch, no, he had to actively pump it full for a period of time. And mind you, this was after Bruno, he did not have this ability yet.
I have no idea why you think there's some arbitrary groupings that have never been established it stated ever besides living And nonliving.
Youre also ignoring context, taking things in a vacuum, and making up some arbitrary limitation of "Life Giver has exclusive effects on certain animals that are unique to them", rather then "GE can choose how to implement his ability", especially when the latter is explicitly shown and confirmed. We've seen LG effect the same species but in different ways, simply because GE wanted it to.
If iring your example with Bruno is a tremendous false equivalence as he touched Bruno for maybe a millionth of a second and ejected only a tiny bit if energy. Meanwhile to age he needs to give a sufficient amount. For something like an evergreen, something with a lifespan on par with humans, he needed to give life energy nonstop continually. Not a second, not one touch, no, he had to actively pump it full for a period of time. And mind you, this was after Bruno, he did not have this ability yet.
Chariot190
You know what, because I have other things to do I may as well just say **** it and do this now.
It doesn't though. It's quite literally the same exact ability. It's different, in that one used continuous life energy and one was a complete accident but said life energy was still given to Bruno, the difference being it was only enough to allow him to live a bit longer opposed to so much he crumbles to dust.
So that's quite literally your point then? Well it doesn't really matter because there is no difference between them as groups. The only difference given at all, in any media, is the difference between organisms and immaterial objects. There is explicit rules given in place between these things, for example, GE can't turn a living thing into a different living thing, but he can change any nonliving object into any living thing he pleases.
This is true, GE takes a nonliving object and turns it into something living. The only difference is the scope and what exactly he's turning it into that's alive.
They aren't. They're unironically the same. He aged both the tree and the larva at an accelerated rate. The result of him doing that is different, but the thing he did is quite literally the same. He aged both, just to varying degrees.
That's blatantly false though. You're creating a false equivalence here and it shows. You're trying to say because Life Giver has a different effect on living and nonorganic objects (which is explicitly defined in all known media featuring GE and is a crucial rule of the Stand) that means because GE used his ability in differing ways on different animals, it must mean it's exclusive to said animals.
Not how it works. Life Giver is the same on all organisms, the only difference is how he chooses to use it. He used it differently on Bruno (before he even knew he could age things to that extent) and he used it differently on a tree because it was the smart thing to do, and it worked out. There isn't these arbitrary groupings, they simply don't exist, the only grouping is living and nonliving, that is quite literally it.
You're taking "he used it this on this thing" to mean "it only works this way on this thing". That's a huge difference, and one that matters.
Except we know that 1. GE can control if, when, how much and more, in regards to life energy, that gives to an opponent.
We know he can pick and choose when to use Life Giver, and we know he can activate it and deactivate it at a thought, including deactivating already used effects.
We know the context of both scenes.
We know the difference between both usages of life Giver in those contexts.
And we're told that aging in particular only has one requirement, and that's the fact the target is a living creature.
I'm honestly baffled here, why would we assume arbitrary groupings that aren't given in any media to be a thing, instead of just, actually using the context of the scenes to explain why they're different?
He hit Bruno, he injected him a bit of life energy, when he landed that blow. The effect was Bruno's mind and senses were accelerated.
In the tree scene, made contact with the roots, and over the course of about 15 seconds, he pumped the tree with life energy nonstop, exhausting the tree's lifespan and accelerating its death.
There's a difference here, and one you keep ignoring. And that's Life Giver was used in a completely different way in both and the context of how both were pulled off are different.
Of course a superhumanly fast punch with just a bit of life energy behind it won't have the same effect as if he would have grabbed Bruno then spent the next half minute pumping him full of life energy without stopping. But if he did, he would have ended up like the tree.
We are given an explanation as to how the aging happens, and humans qualify. There is no difference between a tree, a human, a bug, or more in regards to Life Giver, they're all living things. If GE can do something to one, he can do it to all, especially when it simply says "GE can age living beings", paraphrased. It doesn't go "except humans in particular", because there is no difference, it would work on them all the same as long as he actually uses it, so unless you're about to argue Humans don't qualify as living, there's not an argument to be had.
The age manipulation works on anything living, it works via injecting a sufficient amount of life energy to the target in question, if the thing in question has a longer lifespan then GE needs continuous contact with the organism to inject the energy continuously.
If the above aren't done properly then nothing really happens. It's all about quantity, explicitly so.
I don't think you realize how big of a difference this is, the tree using the anime time) took like 27 seconds to age. That tree had around a human life expectancy as it was a evergreen. If you divide that time by the amount of time GE had contact with Bruno, especially if we consider GE FTL, you'd be lucky if Bruno aged even a second if you divide it by the trees lifespan and the length of contact.
That's ignoring that Giorno himself states the aging is due to contiously giving life energy.
See above. It was definitely nothing compared to how long it took the tree to be effected.
You could easily argue that his senses being dramatically increased and prolonged coincides with the acceleration effect that results in death, as both directly result in the acceleration of the inflicted creature, Bruno was just accelerated by a handful of times, the tree was accelerated to death. It isn't hard to see where the parallels are. But it doesn't matter, they're different applications of the same power.
This isn't how it works. Giorno isn't inexperienced in that he can't control his powers, he's inexperienced in that he doesn't know what the full utility of them and all the ways they can be used, he says this himself.
You're acting like because GE didn't know how to control his powers that means he's injecting ludicrous amounts of life energy at all times, which is what would need to be the case for this argument to actually be correct or to mean anything, but that isn't the case, GE isn't turning everything he touches into things by accident because he doesn't know how to control his power and is off-putting life energy at all times, no. He simply doesn't know the full extent of his abilities, and it's that, which he learns over the course of the part, learning new ways to make use of his ability in new ways, such as, well, aging things, because that's one such example. Put simply, he hit Bruno, gave him a bit of life energy, it had an effect. That's it. Later on, he deduces that if he gives life energy continuously, he should be able to exhaust something's life span as per the nature of his Stand, it works. It's not limited to plants either because we know it can work on other living things as shown later, if it was only used on a planet I'd see where you're coming from, but it wasn't. Meaning, no, it isn't limited to just plants, nor insects (the fact you're grouping plants and insects together simply because it was used on both, rather then taking it to mean it works as it's stated to work is a bit baffling to me) nor whatever else he used it on, if it's alive, it's alive, and as such can be exhausted.
Look, I'm going to completely blunt with you.
I don't give a shit about vs matches 99% of the time and it's clear you're asking this in regards to matches, put simply, I don't care. What I do care about is accuracy to the profile, obviously we're not going to create different groups of animals that interact with life Giver differently, because they simply don't exist and never established. Especially when wog just says "if it's a living creature, GE can age it" and your counterpoint ignores the details.
You're behaving as if there's some arbitrary difference between what life Giver does to different things, instead of the fact it's not that it has different effects depending on what it had made contact with, but rather different effects depending on how GE itself uses said power on the target. And we know he can do different things depending how he uses the energy, even on the same creature.
Bruno alone was effected by life energy in two completely different ways, because GE was trying to do two different things.
No offense, but context is key, and so is statements. You're taking the result in a vacuum but not looking at the full picture, progression, context, the specifics of how they're used, also the fact the only requirement is it being a living thing and we even get an explanation as to why and how it's done.
It doesn't though. It's quite literally the same exact ability. It's different, in that one used continuous life energy and one was a complete accident but said life energy was still given to Bruno, the difference being it was only enough to allow him to live a bit longer opposed to so much he crumbles to dust.
So that's quite literally your point then? Well it doesn't really matter because there is no difference between them as groups. The only difference given at all, in any media, is the difference between organisms and immaterial objects. There is explicit rules given in place between these things, for example, GE can't turn a living thing into a different living thing, but he can change any nonliving object into any living thing he pleases.
This is true, GE takes a nonliving object and turns it into something living. The only difference is the scope and what exactly he's turning it into that's alive.
They aren't. They're unironically the same. He aged both the tree and the larva at an accelerated rate. The result of him doing that is different, but the thing he did is quite literally the same. He aged both, just to varying degrees.
That's blatantly false though. You're creating a false equivalence here and it shows. You're trying to say because Life Giver has a different effect on living and nonorganic objects (which is explicitly defined in all known media featuring GE and is a crucial rule of the Stand) that means because GE used his ability in differing ways on different animals, it must mean it's exclusive to said animals.
Not how it works. Life Giver is the same on all organisms, the only difference is how he chooses to use it. He used it differently on Bruno (before he even knew he could age things to that extent) and he used it differently on a tree because it was the smart thing to do, and it worked out. There isn't these arbitrary groupings, they simply don't exist, the only grouping is living and nonliving, that is quite literally it.
You're taking "he used it this on this thing" to mean "it only works this way on this thing". That's a huge difference, and one that matters.
Except we know that 1. GE can control if, when, how much and more, in regards to life energy, that gives to an opponent.
We know he can pick and choose when to use Life Giver, and we know he can activate it and deactivate it at a thought, including deactivating already used effects.
We know the context of both scenes.
We know the difference between both usages of life Giver in those contexts.
And we're told that aging in particular only has one requirement, and that's the fact the target is a living creature.
I'm honestly baffled here, why would we assume arbitrary groupings that aren't given in any media to be a thing, instead of just, actually using the context of the scenes to explain why they're different?
He hit Bruno, he injected him a bit of life energy, when he landed that blow. The effect was Bruno's mind and senses were accelerated.
In the tree scene, made contact with the roots, and over the course of about 15 seconds, he pumped the tree with life energy nonstop, exhausting the tree's lifespan and accelerating its death.
There's a difference here, and one you keep ignoring. And that's Life Giver was used in a completely different way in both and the context of how both were pulled off are different.
Of course a superhumanly fast punch with just a bit of life energy behind it won't have the same effect as if he would have grabbed Bruno then spent the next half minute pumping him full of life energy without stopping. But if he did, he would have ended up like the tree.
We are given an explanation as to how the aging happens, and humans qualify. There is no difference between a tree, a human, a bug, or more in regards to Life Giver, they're all living things. If GE can do something to one, he can do it to all, especially when it simply says "GE can age living beings", paraphrased. It doesn't go "except humans in particular", because there is no difference, it would work on them all the same as long as he actually uses it, so unless you're about to argue Humans don't qualify as living, there's not an argument to be had.
The age manipulation works on anything living, it works via injecting a sufficient amount of life energy to the target in question, if the thing in question has a longer lifespan then GE needs continuous contact with the organism to inject the energy continuously.
If the above aren't done properly then nothing really happens. It's all about quantity, explicitly so.
I don't think you realize how big of a difference this is, the tree using the anime time) took like 27 seconds to age. That tree had around a human life expectancy as it was a evergreen. If you divide that time by the amount of time GE had contact with Bruno, especially if we consider GE FTL, you'd be lucky if Bruno aged even a second if you divide it by the trees lifespan and the length of contact.
That's ignoring that Giorno himself states the aging is due to contiously giving life energy.
See above. It was definitely nothing compared to how long it took the tree to be effected.
You could easily argue that his senses being dramatically increased and prolonged coincides with the acceleration effect that results in death, as both directly result in the acceleration of the inflicted creature, Bruno was just accelerated by a handful of times, the tree was accelerated to death. It isn't hard to see where the parallels are. But it doesn't matter, they're different applications of the same power.
This isn't how it works. Giorno isn't inexperienced in that he can't control his powers, he's inexperienced in that he doesn't know what the full utility of them and all the ways they can be used, he says this himself.
You're acting like because GE didn't know how to control his powers that means he's injecting ludicrous amounts of life energy at all times, which is what would need to be the case for this argument to actually be correct or to mean anything, but that isn't the case, GE isn't turning everything he touches into things by accident because he doesn't know how to control his power and is off-putting life energy at all times, no. He simply doesn't know the full extent of his abilities, and it's that, which he learns over the course of the part, learning new ways to make use of his ability in new ways, such as, well, aging things, because that's one such example. Put simply, he hit Bruno, gave him a bit of life energy, it had an effect. That's it. Later on, he deduces that if he gives life energy continuously, he should be able to exhaust something's life span as per the nature of his Stand, it works. It's not limited to plants either because we know it can work on other living things as shown later, if it was only used on a planet I'd see where you're coming from, but it wasn't. Meaning, no, it isn't limited to just plants, nor insects (the fact you're grouping plants and insects together simply because it was used on both, rather then taking it to mean it works as it's stated to work is a bit baffling to me) nor whatever else he used it on, if it's alive, it's alive, and as such can be exhausted.
Look, I'm going to completely blunt with you.
I don't give a shit about vs matches 99% of the time and it's clear you're asking this in regards to matches, put simply, I don't care. What I do care about is accuracy to the profile, obviously we're not going to create different groups of animals that interact with life Giver differently, because they simply don't exist and never established. Especially when wog just says "if it's a living creature, GE can age it" and your counterpoint ignores the details.
You're behaving as if there's some arbitrary difference between what life Giver does to different things, instead of the fact it's not that it has different effects depending on what it had made contact with, but rather different effects depending on how GE itself uses said power on the target. And we know he can do different things depending how he uses the energy, even on the same creature.
Bruno alone was effected by life energy in two completely different ways, because GE was trying to do two different things.
No offense, but context is key, and so is statements. You're taking the result in a vacuum but not looking at the full picture, progression, context, the specifics of how they're used, also the fact the only requirement is it being a living thing and we even get an explanation as to why and how it's done.
Chariot190
And I know see why you're bringing this up.
I've read the thread, no offense but I don't give a damn who wins or why.
But your unreasonable scrutiny and arbitrary limitations on a ability that is clearly explained to work a certain way by doing a certain something, by using an example that's not at all equilavent, before he GE realizes he can even really do this.
Sorry, but that Isn't gonna cut it. Especially because we know GE can use life energy to varying effects on humans, not this single effect only like you're trying to argue.
I've read the thread, no offense but I don't give a damn who wins or why.
But your unreasonable scrutiny and arbitrary limitations on a ability that is clearly explained to work a certain way by doing a certain something, by using an example that's not at all equilavent, before he GE realizes he can even really do this.
Sorry, but that Isn't gonna cut it. Especially because we know GE can use life energy to varying effects on humans, not this single effect only like you're trying to argue.
BOEGVELD
I'll respond in a bit, but I wanted to say that I don't care about vs battles either. I came across the argument due to a vs battle, but I couldn't care less about the outcame. Even if I might disagree.
BOEGVELD
We can agree that context matters. I'll just explain a bit more of my argument, and then I'll respond to some of your points.
Giorno was aging the tree by giving it life. That's it. Now, Giorno was giving the tree life for around 30+ seconds before it finally died, however, he was only giving it life for around 5-10 seconds before tree started showing its first signs of aging. GE actually punched Bruno twice in their fight. The first punch was around a second, and the second punch lasted 20 seconds(!). Obviously his senses were slowed, but still. 35 seconds of screentime (or 7 pages) vs 21 seconds of screentime (or 4 pages). No aging was mentioned. Not once, despite multiple sources directly stating that GE implemented Bruno with life. You claimed that Giorno later gained control over/found out whichever effect he can use on whatever being, but he didn't know that/have that control here, yet, so he couldn't just turn that off. Due to that some aging should have happened, but it didn't. Giorno, Bruno and GE's profile mention that giving life has a specific effect on human beings, and it's not aging...
We've already agreed that GE has a single ability. One formula cannot have different outcomes on the same being. That's quite literally impossible. 1 + 1 is always 2. Human + life = out-of-control-senses. Human + life also being aging is contradictory and inconsistent. Not to mention that nothing actually supports this being true to begin with. Also, you said "GE can age living beings" but this was never mentioned in the anime or manga. Where's this from?
NFL = ''He has aged a living being, therefore he must be able to age every (sort of) living being.''
CR = ''He can age a human because he aged a tree. He can control what he ages because he aged a tree and not a human.''
GE is a single ability (stated), that has different effects on different beings and objects (stated and shown).
Vs.
GE is a single ability (stated), that has different effects that can be used on each being (assumption), and GE has complete control over when he uses these effects (assumption).
I hope you can see why I'm a bit skeptical here... I didn't really intend on this becoming such a ''serious'' discussion though. I was just curious to the justification of GE's Age Manipulation working on human beings.
Giorno was aging the tree by giving it life. That's it. Now, Giorno was giving the tree life for around 30+ seconds before it finally died, however, he was only giving it life for around 5-10 seconds before tree started showing its first signs of aging. GE actually punched Bruno twice in their fight. The first punch was around a second, and the second punch lasted 20 seconds(!). Obviously his senses were slowed, but still. 35 seconds of screentime (or 7 pages) vs 21 seconds of screentime (or 4 pages). No aging was mentioned. Not once, despite multiple sources directly stating that GE implemented Bruno with life. You claimed that Giorno later gained control over/found out whichever effect he can use on whatever being, but he didn't know that/have that control here, yet, so he couldn't just turn that off. Due to that some aging should have happened, but it didn't. Giorno, Bruno and GE's profile mention that giving life has a specific effect on human beings, and it's not aging...
We've already agreed that GE has a single ability. One formula cannot have different outcomes on the same being. That's quite literally impossible. 1 + 1 is always 2. Human + life = out-of-control-senses. Human + life also being aging is contradictory and inconsistent. Not to mention that nothing actually supports this being true to begin with. Also, you said "GE can age living beings" but this was never mentioned in the anime or manga. Where's this from?
Except he did, because it's literally the same ability. It's just GE giving life.
There's no stated difference, but there's an explicit difference that's shown within the manga. Somehow Giorno has only aged animals and plants, and only made the human senses go out of control. Of course you can just say ''he choose to not make the senses of animals and plants go out of control, nor a human age'' but that would just be Circular Reasoning at this point.
Yeah, I know. That was my point.
This is a literal No Limit Fallacy and Cicrular Reasoning.
NFL = ''He has aged a living being, therefore he must be able to age every (sort of) living being.''
CR = ''He can age a human because he aged a tree. He can control what he ages because he aged a tree and not a human.''
His senses weren't dramatically increased though. His conciousness thought it had increased because his senses were actually slowed. It would've also been noted if this was actually the case, though.
Context suggests that there are certain groupings though. GE's singular ability has shown different effects on different beings. I didn't make this up, this is literally shown within the manga. Besides that, my argument is far more consistent and logical, and makes far less assumptions:
GE is a single ability (stated), that has different effects on different beings and objects (stated and shown).
Vs.
GE is a single ability (stated), that has different effects that can be used on each being (assumption), and GE has complete control over when he uses these effects (assumption).
I hope you can see why I'm a bit skeptical here... I didn't really intend on this becoming such a ''serious'' discussion though. I was just curious to the justification of GE's Age Manipulation working on human beings.
Chariot190
No, it wasn't, can you not ignore context, this is completely ridiculous. You could argue anything by using gross oversimplifications, which is what you're doing.
Yes, and? Reminder trees have blatant showings of change every few months, **** Koichi even thought it was that initially. Not that it matters, there's a clear cut difference and you fail to comprehend the difference.
Three times actually. And Uh, what in the actual ****? You're joking right? You do know that there's a thing called cinematic timing right? As someone who's a Dragon Ball fan you of all people should know just because a punch lasts a bit, doesn't mean it's actually lasting that long in real time. He didn't punch him for a full second, he punched him for a split second, both times. The second time was ******* slowed down for dramatic effect even.
Oh, I just realized you're talking about the punch that ejected his tooth, you know, the punch that was slowed down to last longer, because of the perception manip to begin with. Did you actually, honestly, fail to register that context? Now you're just being hilariously disingenuous. Yes, his senses were slowed the **** down, so why in the actual **** are you actually trying to argue this as if it isn't completely objectively false?
Yeah, probably because the age manip shit was established afterward as an ability he can consciously use now, did that really never cross your mind?
Or, maybe, he couldn't have turned it on. Why the **** are you assuming it's something that has to be turned off rather then turned on, especially when we know GE explicitly controls how he does this shit and how much and when he injects life energy. **** it's not even a matter of turning this shit on or off, it's a matter of how he does, how long, and how much, energy he gives, its not a simple switch dude.
Like actually, if GE doesn't know how to use these abilities, he isn't gonna be ******* accidentally doing them. He has to unlock them for full use first. And I say this because it's outright stated to be the case with the organ creation.
"As an applied technique of the power to give life to a substance, a wound can be healed by creating a part of the body from the substance and transplanting it. As the Stand grew, it became possible to activate it and when a friend was injured, this power was fully utilized as a recovery role".
What's that mean? Well nothing anyone with common sense didn't already know, but to explain, GE's powers have various applications, and as the part goes on he learns how to use said applications. And once he does, he can learn to activate them.
Meaning, no, your whole "GE would be doing this on Bruno, even if by accident because he doesn't know how to turn it off" isnt gonna work, because it's the opposite that's true, he has to turn it on, and only after he learned how to actually do it properly.
No, not due to that? Why are you oversimplifying the ever living **** out of this? You're straight up wrong on this front, what is GE ******* throwing everyone's senses out of whack whenever he gives them life energy down the line too because that's the effect LE has on Humans and the only effect according to you because you can't see context? That was rhetorical, of course not, it doesn't take much looking to realize how stupid this argument is.
One ability, Life Giver, which can be used in a vast variety of ways. It's not impossible, because that's straight up how it works. Don't like it? Oh well, that's how the author created it. Life Giver is one power, that has numerous abilities and applications. This isn't even up for debate, that's simply how it is and stated to be.
Being blunt here, you're full of shit. Do I need to actually write out a ******* LIST of every time life energy was used on a human just to show you how full of shit you are? **** i don't even need to, Bruno himself has had life energy used on him enough times to show this isn't the case, that life energy can be used in different ways on the same creature.
There is no contradiction, there is no inconsistency, it's just the matter of the fact GE can do whatever the **** he wants with his life energy and we're shown this time and time again. You about to call foul on life energy being used to heal humans later on instead of effecting their perception? I sure as **** hope not, because you'd be objectively wrong.
"Hey, because my Stand can give life energy, if I continuously eject a being with life energy nonstop it should effect their life span. Oh look at that it worked".
Are you actually so utterly incapable of seeing the difference in how an ability is ******* used? This isn't even "well ge did this on one thing, and this on another, so they had two different effects", no, that isnt what youre arguing, youre unironically arguing "GE did two different things on two different things, as such those two different things are exclusive to said things", without taking into account the fact that, ya know, different utility and different method used.
JoJoagogo. Though, it actually is said in the manga, just not using those exact words. "Hey because my Stand can give life continuously, if I do it on this tree, that means it's lifespan will exhaust". This applies to all living organisms, it's not tree exclusive, the fact we see it used on other types of organisms later confirms this. Giorno doesn't say "oh it's only on some things", no, he reasons that because of the nature of his Stand, and the nature of living things like said tree, if he uses his ability in such a way, that being to give it life nonstop, it will eventually run out of its lifespan and die, which it did.
Which can be used in different ways. Because that's ******* heavily established and shown? What you about to argue with the author too? Even he splits up different utilizations of Life Giver into different moves in the guides, like the ******* organism creation is called Life Shot for example. This is actually ******* dumb, this is like arguing that Ki from DBZ is only one ability so it can't be used in different ways, even though it ******* has.
Not what circular reasoning is, it's outright stated he can choose when to and not to, use his sense ability and stops using it after Black Sabbath. So yes, that is unironically, canonically, stated, to be the case. And yes, he never choose to do that on a human, because in order to do so he would have to give them life energy nonstop continuously, which is something he outright never ******* did, not exactly an easy feat to pull off against people trying to murder you.
**** off with the "shown" difference, actually, it's so ignorant to the actual context it's sickening, and conveniently ignores other times LE was used but had a different effect, on the SAME animal. We're told how something works, so that's how it works. We're explained the difference between those two times, justifying the discrepancy, we are told GE can turn on and off certain abilities, explaining further discrepancies, we know LG can be used to varying effects, even on the same organism simply changing because GE is using it differently. And yet here you are, honestly trying to push this shit of "well it's different because it had a different effect this time", ignoring everything around it? Yeah, you'd be right, in a vacuum. But that isn't how we do things here, or anywhere, context is ******* key, and so is using your head.
Yes actually. We are explicitly told how it's done, "by giving something life energy continuously, Giorno can exhaust its life span". Cool, so anything with a life span that's alive falls under this because why the **** wouldn't it? Don't answer that, the issue here is you're so caught up on a false equivalence and different utility of his ability that you can't seem to understand that he can and has and did use it in different ways. There is no ******* reason why this wouldn't work on other things, a NLF would be saying it works on those who don't age, are immortal or nonliving like metals and robots and shit. But saying the move that pumps something full of so much life energy that it exhausts the lifespan of that living creature being able to be used on other living creatures? That's not a NLF, that's simply what the ******* ability is.
Not what I said, it'd do you ******* good to learn how to read, i said, and made it so blatantly clear that the fact that we're still arguing this is absolutely astounding, is that, even explained canonically, that by CONTINOUSLY injecting life energy GE can AGE the organism. Against Bruno, that is NOT what he ******* did, he simply gave a tiny bit of excess energy, and it had an acceleration effect on Bruno's conscious. Ignoring the fact he literally can control this ability, with extreme precision, the reason why one happened and not the other is because the ability and the context surrounding the usage of said ability were completely different.
His senses were dramatically increased, kinda. His conscious thought it increased, because it did. So much so that his body could not keep up and move with it. That's why everything is in slowmotion compared to him and why pain feels like it takes for ******* ever. His senses and conscious were increased so much that he's basically the flash in a normal body, he perceives everything to be so much slower because he's so much faster. A incredibly small fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second to everyone else is agonizingly long seconds to him because he perceives everything slower, because he himself is faster. I'm surprised I have to actually explain this given you're on a wiki were this is a heavily established concept, with people with far heighted senses being able to see shit in slowmotion because theyre fast. Which is what GE did, he increased and accelerated Bruno's conscious and senses, creating a disassociative slip between mind and body, making Bruno's perception much, much faster but as a consequence, his pain would last much, much longer, as everything is so slow to him now that he's so fast.
You are making this up though, that's what you dont realize and it;s ******* annoying. GE's singular ability that can and has been used in a variety of ways. No shit you think the way you do, you don't get that there's different applications to this shit. Your argument is a ******* trainwreck that ignores everything you possibly could just to push this shit.
But you leave out the why it had those different effects. Which is the issue.
Actually, all of those are stated. **** I dug up the latter scan too, so again, you're wrong. Stop talking like you know the in and outs of all this. You dont, and it shows.
I don't actually get why, well I do, it's because of that stupid ******* Goku Vs. GER thread and that's the only reason why, calling a spade a spade here. And to be blunt, I dont give a **** about your matches.
Oh and fyi, the human = senses is also bullshit, it's said to work on living things in general, which already puts a hole in your argument given the apparent "human" effect isn't even limited to humans.
"When Gold.E hits a living thing, it will inject excess life energy. Therefore, only the senses of the beaten opponent run wild, and all movements including the user can be seen slowly. In addition, this ability can be freely canceled by the main body."
So yeah, the senses bullshit applies to living creatures in general, not just humans and it can be canceled whenever (which he does, he stops doing it after Black Sabbath because it almost got him killed).
Age manip, sense manip, etc. They're two sides of the same coin, it's not a matter of what it's used on but a matter of how it's used. If GE punched a ******* rat, he could make its senses go wild, if he punched that same rat but decided to inject a sufficient amount of life energy into it to age it, well he can do that too. Why can he do that? Because that's simply how it works, and we're shown and stated this.
But actually, don't even bother responding unless you can pull out some excuse as to why life energy on humans can do other things besides sense manip, because it can and has and if you wanna actually argue "life energy on humans is ALWAYS sense manip and not anything else because 1 + 1 is always 2", then you best ******* have a concrete, explicit statement explaining why that isnt actually the case and why Life Energy has been used on humans to different effects depending on what GE was trying to do, and in those instances their senses weren't thrown out of wack despite being given said energy. I want to see a statement if you wanna push these arbitrary made up groupings that don't actually exist.
Holy ****, I have enough shit to deal with, I can't believe I'm arguing semantics here. Lok, no offense to you or anything but it works on humans because there's no reason not to and the only actual thing saying otherwise is so heavily skewed and proven to be objectively not the case and the fact it can and has worked on multiple different types of fauna before. There's no reason humans are exempt, the same way other things with sentience arent exempt from sense manip. GE can choose how he uses his ability, he can do different things on different types of animals, or different things on the same type of animal. That's simply all there is to it, there isnt these arbitrary groupings, they dont exist.
No, it wasn't, can you not ignore context, this is completely ridiculous. You could argue anything by using gross oversimplifications, which is what you're doing.
Yes, and? Reminder trees have blatant showings of change every few months, **** Koichi even thought it was that initially. Not that it matters, there's a clear cut difference and you fail to comprehend the difference.
Three times actually. And Uh, what in the actual ****? You're joking right? You do know that there's a thing called cinematic timing right? As someone who's a Dragon Ball fan you of all people should know just because a punch lasts a bit, doesn't mean it's actually lasting that long in real time. He didn't punch him for a full second, he punched him for a split second, both times. The second time was ******* slowed down for dramatic effect even.
Oh, I just realized you're talking about the punch that ejected his tooth, you know, the punch that was slowed down to last longer, because of the perception manip to begin with. Did you actually, honestly, fail to register that context? Now you're just being hilariously disingenuous. Yes, his senses were slowed the **** down, so why in the actual **** are you actually trying to argue this as if it isn't completely objectively false?
Yeah, probably because the age manip shit was established afterward as an ability he can consciously use now, did that really never cross your mind?
Or, maybe, he couldn't have turned it on. Why the **** are you assuming it's something that has to be turned off rather then turned on, especially when we know GE explicitly controls how he does this shit and how much and when he injects life energy. **** it's not even a matter of turning this shit on or off, it's a matter of how he does, how long, and how much, energy he gives, its not a simple switch dude.
Like actually, if GE doesn't know how to use these abilities, he isn't gonna be ******* accidentally doing them. He has to unlock them for full use first. And I say this because it's outright stated to be the case with the organ creation.
"As an applied technique of the power to give life to a substance, a wound can be healed by creating a part of the body from the substance and transplanting it. As the Stand grew, it became possible to activate it and when a friend was injured, this power was fully utilized as a recovery role".
What's that mean? Well nothing anyone with common sense didn't already know, but to explain, GE's powers have various applications, and as the part goes on he learns how to use said applications. And once he does, he can learn to activate them.
Meaning, no, your whole "GE would be doing this on Bruno, even if by accident because he doesn't know how to turn it off" isnt gonna work, because it's the opposite that's true, he has to turn it on, and only after he learned how to actually do it properly.
No, not due to that? Why are you oversimplifying the ever living **** out of this? You're straight up wrong on this front, what is GE ******* throwing everyone's senses out of whack whenever he gives them life energy down the line too because that's the effect LE has on Humans and the only effect according to you because you can't see context? That was rhetorical, of course not, it doesn't take much looking to realize how stupid this argument is.
One ability, Life Giver, which can be used in a vast variety of ways. It's not impossible, because that's straight up how it works. Don't like it? Oh well, that's how the author created it. Life Giver is one power, that has numerous abilities and applications. This isn't even up for debate, that's simply how it is and stated to be.
Being blunt here, you're full of shit. Do I need to actually write out a ******* LIST of every time life energy was used on a human just to show you how full of shit you are? **** i don't even need to, Bruno himself has had life energy used on him enough times to show this isn't the case, that life energy can be used in different ways on the same creature.
There is no contradiction, there is no inconsistency, it's just the matter of the fact GE can do whatever the **** he wants with his life energy and we're shown this time and time again. You about to call foul on life energy being used to heal humans later on instead of effecting their perception? I sure as **** hope not, because you'd be objectively wrong.
"Hey, because my Stand can give life energy, if I continuously eject a being with life energy nonstop it should effect their life span. Oh look at that it worked".
Are you actually so utterly incapable of seeing the difference in how an ability is ******* used? This isn't even "well ge did this on one thing, and this on another, so they had two different effects", no, that isnt what youre arguing, youre unironically arguing "GE did two different things on two different things, as such those two different things are exclusive to said things", without taking into account the fact that, ya know, different utility and different method used.
JoJoagogo. Though, it actually is said in the manga, just not using those exact words. "Hey because my Stand can give life continuously, if I do it on this tree, that means it's lifespan will exhaust". This applies to all living organisms, it's not tree exclusive, the fact we see it used on other types of organisms later confirms this. Giorno doesn't say "oh it's only on some things", no, he reasons that because of the nature of his Stand, and the nature of living things like said tree, if he uses his ability in such a way, that being to give it life nonstop, it will eventually run out of its lifespan and die, which it did.
Which can be used in different ways. Because that's ******* heavily established and shown? What you about to argue with the author too? Even he splits up different utilizations of Life Giver into different moves in the guides, like the ******* organism creation is called Life Shot for example. This is actually ******* dumb, this is like arguing that Ki from DBZ is only one ability so it can't be used in different ways, even though it ******* has.
Not what circular reasoning is, it's outright stated he can choose when to and not to, use his sense ability and stops using it after Black Sabbath. So yes, that is unironically, canonically, stated, to be the case. And yes, he never choose to do that on a human, because in order to do so he would have to give them life energy nonstop continuously, which is something he outright never ******* did, not exactly an easy feat to pull off against people trying to murder you.
**** off with the "shown" difference, actually, it's so ignorant to the actual context it's sickening, and conveniently ignores other times LE was used but had a different effect, on the SAME animal. We're told how something works, so that's how it works. We're explained the difference between those two times, justifying the discrepancy, we are told GE can turn on and off certain abilities, explaining further discrepancies, we know LG can be used to varying effects, even on the same organism simply changing because GE is using it differently. And yet here you are, honestly trying to push this shit of "well it's different because it had a different effect this time", ignoring everything around it? Yeah, you'd be right, in a vacuum. But that isn't how we do things here, or anywhere, context is ******* key, and so is using your head.
Yes actually. We are explicitly told how it's done, "by giving something life energy continuously, Giorno can exhaust its life span". Cool, so anything with a life span that's alive falls under this because why the **** wouldn't it? Don't answer that, the issue here is you're so caught up on a false equivalence and different utility of his ability that you can't seem to understand that he can and has and did use it in different ways. There is no ******* reason why this wouldn't work on other things, a NLF would be saying it works on those who don't age, are immortal or nonliving like metals and robots and shit. But saying the move that pumps something full of so much life energy that it exhausts the lifespan of that living creature being able to be used on other living creatures? That's not a NLF, that's simply what the ******* ability is.
Not what I said, it'd do you ******* good to learn how to read, i said, and made it so blatantly clear that the fact that we're still arguing this is absolutely astounding, is that, even explained canonically, that by CONTINOUSLY injecting life energy GE can AGE the organism. Against Bruno, that is NOT what he ******* did, he simply gave a tiny bit of excess energy, and it had an acceleration effect on Bruno's conscious. Ignoring the fact he literally can control this ability, with extreme precision, the reason why one happened and not the other is because the ability and the context surrounding the usage of said ability were completely different.
His senses were dramatically increased, kinda. His conscious thought it increased, because it did. So much so that his body could not keep up and move with it. That's why everything is in slowmotion compared to him and why pain feels like it takes for ******* ever. His senses and conscious were increased so much that he's basically the flash in a normal body, he perceives everything to be so much slower because he's so much faster. A incredibly small fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second to everyone else is agonizingly long seconds to him because he perceives everything slower, because he himself is faster. I'm surprised I have to actually explain this given you're on a wiki were this is a heavily established concept, with people with far heighted senses being able to see shit in slowmotion because theyre fast. Which is what GE did, he increased and accelerated Bruno's conscious and senses, creating a disassociative slip between mind and body, making Bruno's perception much, much faster but as a consequence, his pain would last much, much longer, as everything is so slow to him now that he's so fast.
You are making this up though, that's what you dont realize and it;s ******* annoying. GE's singular ability that can and has been used in a variety of ways. No shit you think the way you do, you don't get that there's different applications to this shit. Your argument is a ******* trainwreck that ignores everything you possibly could just to push this shit.
But you leave out the why it had those different effects. Which is the issue.
Actually, all of those are stated. **** I dug up the latter scan too, so again, you're wrong. Stop talking like you know the in and outs of all this. You dont, and it shows.
I don't actually get why, well I do, it's because of that stupid ******* Goku Vs. GER thread and that's the only reason why, calling a spade a spade here. And to be blunt, I dont give a **** about your matches.
Oh and fyi, the human = senses is also bullshit, it's said to work on living things in general, which already puts a hole in your argument given the apparent "human" effect isn't even limited to humans.
"When Gold.E hits a living thing, it will inject excess life energy. Therefore, only the senses of the beaten opponent run wild, and all movements including the user can be seen slowly. In addition, this ability can be freely canceled by the main body."
So yeah, the senses bullshit applies to living creatures in general, not just humans and it can be canceled whenever (which he does, he stops doing it after Black Sabbath because it almost got him killed).
Age manip, sense manip, etc. They're two sides of the same coin, it's not a matter of what it's used on but a matter of how it's used. If GE punched a ******* rat, he could make its senses go wild, if he punched that same rat but decided to inject a sufficient amount of life energy into it to age it, well he can do that too. Why can he do that? Because that's simply how it works, and we're shown and stated this.
But actually, don't even bother responding unless you can pull out some excuse as to why life energy on humans can do other things besides sense manip, because it can and has and if you wanna actually argue "life energy on humans is ALWAYS sense manip and not anything else because 1 + 1 is always 2", then you best ******* have a concrete, explicit statement explaining why that isnt actually the case and why Life Energy has been used on humans to different effects depending on what GE was trying to do, and in those instances their senses weren't thrown out of wack despite being given said energy. I want to see a statement if you wanna push these arbitrary made up groupings that don't actually exist.
Holy ****, I have enough shit to deal with, I can't believe I'm arguing semantics here. Lok, no offense to you or anything but it works on humans because there's no reason not to and the only actual thing saying otherwise is so heavily skewed and proven to be objectively not the case and the fact it can and has worked on multiple different types of fauna before. There's no reason humans are exempt, the same way other things with sentience arent exempt from sense manip. GE can choose how he uses his ability, he can do different things on different types of animals, or different things on the same type of animal. That's simply all there is to it, there isnt these arbitrary groupings, they dont exist.
BOEGVELD
You know he doesn't heal them by directly giving them life, right? Anyway, with all these logical fallacies, and a 1000 quotes per reply, it might be better to end this. I still wanted to ask you where the 2 scans you sent are from though. And does it contain more scans regarding GE & GER? I'd like to look into them.
Chariot190
In that case, he did, he explicitly gave Bruno excess life energy, and guess what happened? Not the extremely arbitrary rulings you've been making up. Or are you gonna say that when he gave Bruno that bit of life energy he was actually having his senses thrown out of wack? Man sucks to be Bruno I guess to have said senses thrown out of wack while having a blown out chest and being nearly bisected, must've hurt. And you're acting like GE only ever healed people later on as his only utility of LG. Either ******* way.
Do you not what a logical fallacy even is? I'm not the person here trying to spit in the face of context and correlating information and going "well lg MUST have only a single effect on different animals", hell it's ******* bad enough you've never actually once engaged or rebutted a single thing I said, only resorting to "life giver is life energy so life energy only has one effect on a thing", when that's not even ******* true because we see otherwise and are told otherwise meaning the only argument you've actually gave is objectively false.
"Hey Giorno, you accidentally gave my excess life energy lol, that's what allowed me to live a bit longer"
In that case, he did, he explicitly gave Bruno excess life energy, and guess what happened? Not the extremely arbitrary rulings you've been making up. Or are you gonna say that when he gave Bruno that bit of life energy he was actually having his senses thrown out of wack? Man sucks to be Bruno I guess to have said senses thrown out of wack while having a blown out chest and being nearly bisected, must've hurt. And you're acting like GE only ever healed people later on as his only utility of LG. Either ******* way.
Ah yes, the logical fallacy of context and not ignoring blatant information for the sake of trying to say shit is a certain way when it's really not.
Do you not what a logical fallacy even is? I'm not the person here trying to spit in the face of context and correlating information and going "well lg MUST have only a single effect on different animals", hell it's ******* bad enough you've never actually once engaged or rebutted a single thing I said, only resorting to "life giver is life energy so life energy only has one effect on a thing", when that's not even ******* true because we see otherwise and are told otherwise meaning the only argument you've actually gave is objectively false.
Better to quote then to not. Get used to it.
The guides?
Uh yeah, they're guides?
But it varies, it's pulled off by essentially overloading something with so much life energy that they exhaust their life span.
The effect varies depending on how much he gives and how long the target in question would normally live for.
Something like a bug, takes not even a fraction of a fraction of a second of contact. But something like a tree with a 50-60y life expectancy would take at least a few seconds of direct contact.
So yes, it works on humans, and life In general, but to varying degrees. It also needs direct contact for GE and isn't a lead.