VS Battles Wiki Forum

Touche. Like I said though, the whole thing is ambigious, so I view it as an "at most" personally speaking.

Though how would that be rated?

Low 7-B, possibly 7-A, at most 5-C, likely far higher is quite the mouthful.

Personally I'd just not have the 5-C rating honestly, but if you wanna something like "Low 7-B, possibly 7-A, at most 5-C or far higher" sounds a bit better imo

That sounds like a decent compromise at least. I assume this needs to go through the revision thread again.

I'm not interested in bringing it up myself but if you want sure, I'll probably mention that i don't think the tier is legit tho

That's all good. Although I won't bring it up for a good while at least. I'm unfortunately struggling to find time to even just edit pages.

Just a heads up.

I'll probably argue that the Sun should be comparable to our own as we discussed earlier. Mostly based off of the Cosmology being largely analagous to our own (being meant to be a mythological past to our world, plus other stuff). This should only affect Arien, whose body makes up most of the Sun (minus the fruit and vessel).

I'm still planning an "At Most" statement for the Moon attack, as the attack must have been done within a reasonable timeframe to avoid direct retaliation from the Valar, and as the attack is on the Moon itself (making it decently possible the attack would destroy the Moon, but far from certain, hence at most).

However. I believe 6-A or something for destroying the Moon in large chunks would be better, as there were multiple attackers + it probably wouldn't have been an instant destruction.

You can't really guess a random tier to estimate the power of destroying the moon, if you want to downscale it'd be High 6-A, but generally I'd be against using the feat still. Sun is fine

I wasn't sure what tier destroying the Moon in large chunks would be. I assumed 6-A off the top of my head.

I dunno, afraid that's one of those things you can't really quantify. If you had a way to estimate timeframe and amount of people contributing to the destruction, you could maybe figure it out but idk.

For the time being I'll just propose the idea it would have destroyed within a reasonable timeframe, if it they were going for a total destruction that is. I'll hash out the details once that is resolved.

Hi, still waiting on the necessary pages to be unlocked, but in the meantime, I thought I'd notify you of the (hopefully) last part of the stats revision before the abilities.

For the Nazgul, I think a compromise of 9-B, possibly Low 7-B to 7-A might be best. They are at minimum comparable to human warriors, but on the higher ends are capable of threatening the likes of Gandalf or Glorfindel in groups. The Witch-King is the only one who retains his tier.

• They can also reform from being "houseless spirits" but this is more of an example of the potency of their reliant immortality than Low-Godly regeneration.

For Aragorn, I have two proposals for:

• At minimum, he is At least 9-B for being far superior to literally every other non-Maia or Calaquendi warrior on the side of good.
• At the high-end, he upscales from characters like Boromir the Steward (not Boromir of the Fellowship) who is detailed in the Appendix as causing the Witch-King to fear him during his defeat of Mordor's army and reconquest of Ithilien. Said Steward also survives a Morgul wound (though it shorterns his life) something that can only be performed by one of the Nazgul
  • The blessing of Numenor include blessings of body and mind. The greater the blessings, the more power possessed. Aragorn had the greatest share of these blessings of anyone since the early Third-Age (possibly since Elendil) and would be superior to Boromir. The Line of Elros also gains additional potency, and while the House of Hurin (Stewards) might have some share of this line, it is very little compared to the direct Royal Line.
  • Additional support is the "great power" comment from the Witch-King regarding Aragorn and Aragorn's supposed ability to help turn the tide at Sarn Ford against the Nazgul (including the Witch-King) if he was there
  • Unlike previously thought, the Nazgul have no immunity to weaponry. Even the Witch-King can be pierced, it just also breaks the weapon and harms the user
  • He could also fight off 5 Nazgul, albeit they were already rattled and being attacked with a weakness, fire (although how much of a fire is, is not made clear in the books. Flowing water for example can be ignored at need despite also being a weakness).

Hence either At least 9-B or Low 7-B, possibly 7-A.

• For a compromise, At least 9-B possibly Low 7-B to 7-A could work.

The actual revision post will have more details and actual quotes + links.

Eh, I'd like scans on the Boromir stuff, but I kinda don't really think it moves the needle too much regarding Aragorn, especially considering that Gandalf got threatened by a bunch of wolves in the Hobbit

If that's the concern, the At least 9-B, possibly Low 7-B to 7-A compromise works. Anti-feats are few for Aragorn. He's only ever threatened when his stamina is low.

"In the last years of Denethor I the race of uruks, black orcs of great strength, first appeared out of Mordor, and in 2475 they swept across Ithilien and took Osgiliath. Boromir son of Denethor (after whom Boromir of the Nine Walkers was later named) defeated them and regained Ithilien; but Osgiliath was finally ruined, and its great stone-bridge was broken. No people dwelt there afterwards. Boromir was a great captain, and even the Witch-king feared him. He was noble and fair of face, a man strong in body and in will, but he received a Morgul-wound in that war which shortened his days, and he became shrunken with pain and died twelve years after his father."

The Gandalf Wolf anti-feat is more a consequence of early installment weirdness anyway.

I mean it's less the anti-feats, I just kinda don't feel the scaling is very concrete. Even in Boromir's case I feel like the WK might have just feared his leadership abilities.

I agree there is uncertainty, which is why I'm proposing a compromise as well. Both interpretations can be valid, and there is certainly proof of the Witch-King fearing Boromir both ways. The presence of a morgul wound shows the two did indeed come face to face, with Boromir surviving (albeit never recovering).

It's solid enough that it warrants at least a possibly in my opinion. Aragorn's place in the scaling is nebulous anyway, there is no anti-feats to drag him down to Gimli or Boromir's (of the Fellowship) level, and there's examples of him being within the range of the Nazgul to an uncertain degree.

I wouldn't mind just going for the At least 9-B, possibly Low 7-B to 7-A option.

I dunno, personally I just kind of disagree but it is a (small) bit less egregious now that 5-C is gone so... I dunno, maybe. I'll disagree but if the majority is against me I won't oppose it.

Also I'd recommend you to make a new thread, I think the odds of people checking such a long and old one are very low.

Sounds good. I was hoping to wrap up the stats stuff before starting a new thread though.

i'd probably make it, i feel like in the previous aragorn discussion barely anyone was there to judge

It was largely Bambu, you, me, and DDM (towards the end). Is it possible for you to contact Ant to see if he can unlock the pages so I can then move ahead with a new thread?