VS Battles Wiki Forum

I don't need hybrids to scale to peak Primal Kerrigan though, just be much weaker than her but enough to harm her. Kerrigan at the start of her primal transformation is different throughout the length of the campaign as she grows in power even more via bonus objectives and conquering every single Primal Zerg and absorbing their essence unto herself. Making her unknowingly more powerful than base Primal Kerrigan.

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You do understand that the one who performed the High 6-A Storm Feat is Base Primal Kerrigan going all out with her Psionics?

The fact that De-Infested Kerrigan going all out is already able to handle Hybrid should be proof that the Hybrid shouldn't scale to a well rested peak Primal Kerrigan.

They're only shown and stated to be a threat to De-Infested Kerrigan or a Fatigued Primal Kerrigan or a Handicapped Primal Kerrigan

Bro, they literally fought in Dark Skies. The final boss of the mission is a Tal'Darim Mothership and the loading screen literally has a Tal'Darim Mothership too. (Also my bad, I mistyped NCO into HotS).

Why not? The armor is still one of the most advance and expensive pieces of tech in the Terran Dominion and should still at least count for something (Although I do admit that on a straight up fight that Gorgons can take out the Xanthos' weapon systems and force it to retreat).

Just because it takes a number of them doesn't eliminate the fact that they're very capable and impressive explosive units on their own and can use variable tiers (a single scourge punctured and knocked down Duke's battlecruiser in an SC1 cutscene for other examples. We don't have to be so binary with everything despite the statement like how it takes only a handful to breach a starship like BCs). Even though it took around a dozen Scourges to take down 1 Gorgon, that's still massive amounts of damage in a single Scourge alone that can easily net them a high 6-a value even if you downscale them over a dozen times.

Base Primal Kerrigan who only begun to awaken her powers. She gets more powerful overtime directly afterwards. Not saying hybrids fully scale to either but just enough to qualify as I said before imo.

What's your ideal planned scaling chain anyways? That might clear up some confusion for both of us if we show each other our planned ap stats for the verse

Tier 8: Low to Mid Tier Vehicles
Marine Level: 8-C, at most 8-B
Zealot/Goliath/Siege Tank (Tank Mode) Level: 8-B

Tier 7-6: Heavy Weapons to Heroes
Battlecruiser/Immortal/Siege Tank (Siege Mode): At least 7-C to 6-C, at most High 6-A
Kerrigan (includes base Zerg Kerrigan)/Leviathans/Gorgons/Motherships/Low to High Tier Hybrids: At least 6-C, possibly/likely High 6-A

Bro, they literally fought in Dark Skies. The final boss of the mission is a Tal'Darim Mothership and the loading screen literally has a Tal'Darim Mothership too. (Also my bad, I mistyped NCO into HotS).

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You're the one who said it took place in Hots

Why not? The armor is still one of the most advance and expensive pieces of tech in the Terran Dominion and should still at least count for something (Although I do admit that on a straight up fight that Gorgon's can take out the Xanthos' weapon systems and force it to retreat).

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The Gorgon's Durability itself isn't just because of it's Armor. Kerrigan made no mention of the Gorgon's Armor, she talks about the Gorgon in general, as in Armor + Superstructure and other things that would make Kerrigan think of it that way.

The only thing special about the Xanthos is its Armor which the toughest opponent it face were Battlecruisers.

Just because it takes a number of them doesn't eliminate the fact that they're very capable and impressive explosive units on their own and can use variable tiers

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For the last time, Scourge should not be used as a basis for scaling.

Do you understand the concept of Chip Damage or Accumulated Damage?

(a single scourge punctured and knocked down Duke's battlecruiser in an SC1 cutscene for other examples. We don't have to be so binary with everything despite the statement like how it takes only a handful to breach a starship like BCs).

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Why do you always bring stuff that I already mentioned?

As I said we don't know how long the Norad was fighting, it was literally flying away from the Zerg.

Even though it took around a dozen Scourges to take down 1 Gorgon, that's still massive amounts of damage in a single Scourge alone that can easily net them a high 6-a value even if you downscale them over a dozen times.

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For the last time, Scourge should not be used as a basis for scaling.

One, it wasn't a dozen, there literally were dozens possibly a hundred.

Two, they didn't impact the damn thing all at once, they rammed into it in small groups at a time.

I said I mistyped on the Gorgon and Mothership stuff sorry.

How would you rate Scourges then? They're still portrayed as a consistent threat to all capital ships with the only anti-feat they have is that time in Mothership where dozens of Scourges failed to take down a mothership's shields.

The best we know of ingame for a single Scourge nest is around a dozen Scourges. There's no statements for it to take hundreds to kill a Gorgon.

They didn't ram the thing all at once yes, but it was still a rapid fire barrage of Scourges on a Gorgon.

Infantry Units (Marine, Medic, Reaper, Ghost, Firebat, Marauder) are within Tier 9 to Tier 8 generally, with their weapons being higher

Light Vehicle (Vultures, Hellions/Hellbats, Goliaths, Warhounds) are within Tier 9 to Tier 8 generally, with their weapons being higher

Heavy Vehicles (Siege Tanks, Diamond Backs, Thors) are Tier 8 in general, with their weapons being higher

Fighter Space Craft (Vikings, Wraiths, Liberators, Valkyries) are Tier 8 in general, with their weapons being higher

Capital Ships, are Tier 7 in general, with some of their weapons and shields being higher

So you believe in more of a "higher" rating rather than a varies tier for the tier 7 stuff? That makes some sense (I still prefer combing tier 7 and 6 imo).

Also Thors should be tier 7, they're the strongest land unit the Terrans generally have and have punisher anti air cannons designed to take down big air targets like capital ships. Their durability should scale too as the land and air cannons should be on par together.

So you believe in more of a "higher" rating rather than a varies tier for the tier 7 stuff? That makes some sense (I still prefer combing tier 7 and 6 imo).

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Example.

Siege Tanks are Tier 8 in general, but their Shock Cannon can reach Tier 7 for bringing down a portion of Capital Ship shields and damaging the ship itself.

The Battlecruiser's Durability is bad because it can be damaged by units generally weaker than itself and get destroyed by its own Yamato Cannons when unshielded. Even their primary weapons (Laser Batteries) are capable of whittling down their own defenses.

With it's regular shields it's capable of tanking all those attacks, and it's higher with a Defensive Matrix.

They also have Tier 6 Nukes

Also Thors should be tier 7, they're the strongest land unit the Terrans generally have and have punisher anti air cannons designed to take down big air targets like capital ships.

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AP wise

Their durability should scale too as the land and air cannons should be on par together.

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Their Durability should only scale above Siege Tank AP since their siege walkers designed to attack fortified locations

Your higher rating ideas are similar to mine but just on tier 7. I don't mind it as that's basically them without the hybrid involved in the scaling.

I don't believe battlecruiser durability is bad tbh, since I prefer the route that weapons on the verse are just that strong because of how much everything interacts with each other in strength both in the games and lore. Battlecruisers still scale to their own weapons and nuclear options like tactical nukes and the yamato cannon. And yeah unshielded BCs typically die to a yamato shot after their shields are depleted from sustained fire.

Thor armor isn't really looked down upon. The Liberator's siege cannon is portrayed as so strong that it can pierce Thor armor and its siege cannon should be comparable to battlecruiser laser batteries with how hyped up it is. In the comics, the liberator can use its concord cannon without the need for sieging up.

Thor armor isn't really looked down upon.

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What are you talking about?

They're not deemed as weak armor, they're seen as the terran equivalent of Ultralisks in armor.



Despite not being as powerful as the Odin, it's still deemed to be strong and heavily armored.

"Heavy composite neosteel-ceramic armor protects the thor. The plates are modular and can be replaced easily if damaged, or exchanged for thicker versions depending on battlefield conditions. Designed to defeat high-explosive armor piercing rounds, as well as disrupt the searing beams of energy-based weapons, the thor's plating offers unparalleled protection to the pilot and the mech's internal systems. Its innermost layer has a heat-resistant kinetic mesh that prevents damage from shrapnel, slugs, or even sheared armor fragments.[4] ATVX has also developed an "immortality protocol," allowing a thor to repair itself in the field as long as its hull remains intact.[2]"

It wouldn't make sense for the terran's go to heavy assault siege walker mech to be a glass cannon.

You were saying that Thors are only tier 8 in durability at least from what I read.

Their Durability should only scale above Siege Tank AP since their siege walkers designed to attack fortified locations

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I wasn't sure if you were including siege mode there.

What I'm arguing is that Thors can be argued as straight up 7-C like Ultralisks since they scale into each other.

Also did I just delete both of your messages? I only pressed delete on 1 message and I can't see either anymore. You sent 2 of the same message on my screen so sorry if I did.

Why is the Leviathan Calc wrong? Where does the 6.7 KM value come from?

The Field Manual and the Artist Robert Rose attest to Leviathans measuring 11 KM in length.

He confirms that he intended for the Leviathan's to be 11 KM in length. And explains that if the 1 km line scale in the Field Manual isn't exactly 1/74th of the 74 km line scale then that was a mistake in the Field Manual.

So if anything, Assaultwaffle using 10 KM is more or less accurate

I might be able to get it recalced again someday. And oh hey you talked to Xiao Robear, I know the guy too. Basically I got the old 10 kilometer calc scrapped because at the time, it was common knowledge in the lore discord and StarCraft wiki to be 6.7 kilometers. And tbf the old calc is still wrong because when KLOL got it reworked for me, he said the measurements were wrong. Plus AssaultWaffle calcd 10 kilometers at the time and not 11.

Since the Calc is still in use

80% Hollow 144.19216060000002 Gigatons

50% Hollow 360.42065010000005 Gigatons

If you use the Leviathan Calc then you should go with the 80% Hollow end since it's easier to scale and downscale.

• 144.19 Gigatons = Large Island Level

• 100 Gigatons = Large Island Level

• 52.15 Gigatons = Island Level +

Island+ is for:
• Units or Weapons that can damage a Battlecruiser.

• Units that can take hits from Units or Weapons that can damage a Battlecruiser.

• Units that can damage Units that can take hits from Units or Weapons that can damage a Battlecruiser.

Baseline Large Island Level is for:
• Units that can take hits and downscale from the Leviathan.

•Units that are comparable to Units that can take hits and downscale from the Leviathan.

Large Island Level is for:
• Units that are comparable to Leviathans.

If the Value of the Calc ever changes this would be a Scaling guide.

50% hollow is fine (even the calc team thinks so too) since the sheer size of the leviathans allow for them to be so massive and expansive both for troop transport and piercing heavily armored ships. 80% sounds too hollow for something also used for direct combat imo. 50% also helps get the scaling chain have closer tiers to each other instead of more tiers if possible.

Is that the new or old calc you used as reference for your measurements anyways?

Fun fact, the standard hollowness for machines is 50%. The Leviathan is more or less comparable to one for the closest comparison we have.