VS Battles Wiki Forum

Resistance on VSBW is more or less treated as a limited immunity or the ability to diminish the effects of the ability. In D&D, it fits the former- if you resist an ability (and succeed a save), you are generally totally immune to the power, unless the power has a specific thing like "even if you resist you take half damage". So when a D&D page says it resists something, it is immune to that ability, with the following caveat:

Resistances are "layered", meaning that if a character displays the ability to overcome a resistance, it can affect a character with resistance. D&D characters, however, have multiple layers of scaling for their resistance- basically, for every number that they'd add to their roll for a save, they have another layer of resistance- as a number lower would be affected by an ability that they'd be totally immune to. For the purposes of the wiki, we don't use the dice rolling mechanic (due to game mechanics, obviously), so instead we assume a completely average roll of 10.

So a +1 bonus is one layer of resistance, a +2 bonus is two layers, +3 is three, and so on.

I got the layers thing (how do you handle advantage though? As THAT is the explanation given for the "resitance to magic" of the horror), can we assume "blasting" spells fall under the "half damage" thing for the purpose of the fight?

Simple thing is that we just sort of don't. Advantage is purely a game mechanic, so even though in-game it translates to about a +5 bonus, we just... can't apply it. As for Magic Resistance, if we're lucky the monster will have a more usable metric from an earlier edition (Spell Resistance from 3.5e, for example). Otherwise, it's just held as one layer.

You can't give a creature powers they're not shown to have, as this isn't really a case of verse equalization- it is a trait of specific spells to still deal half damage, not that all spells that deal damage deal half on a successful resist. So no, you can't give Ainz' spells a trait they don't have in canon. I still think he wins, though, having watched (and enjoyed) Overlord.

Ok so sorry it took me about 3 eternities to respond but I had a couple more doubts about this and I wanted to be sure I'd have the time to respond reasonably quickly:

The advantage part I understand (and agree with) however there's a pretty clear "pattern" when it comes to spells that deal no dmg if resisted and spells that get 1/2 dmg reardeless, to the point where you could argue that it's not a verse specific mechanic and it's just...them (partially) dodging the spells since they force Dex saves, which ("translated" from game terms to what "really" happpens) means:
there's a blast there-->dodge it.
Which is something any "blasty" spell from any verse will do, with the horror's magic resistance lowering the dmg it takes (reflected in game by advantage making succeding the save easier). Also an interesting note that makes the "no dmg lol" approach even more shaky imo is that spells that rely on attack rolls (the single taregt ones, again...seems more of a generic property than a verse specific mechanic) are NOT covered in the magic resistance of the Horror (though to be fair this may be an issue that was "lost in traslation" between editions).
One last thing on the matchup is: how do you treat spells that "summon" phisical objects as their effect? Something like Evard's Black Tentacles and Web in D&D and Thousand Bone Lance and Wall of Skeleton in Overlord, I find it hard to believe you can just say "resistance lol" and they get ignored.

As an extra thing (if you can and want to respond) Idk if you decided to read my debate with Reaper that took place b4 you came in but an issue about "piercing dmg" came up (t.l.d.r. sword=pseudo-higher AP, to the point where a 2 or 3 hits were implied to be enough to destroy a low 7-C summon) and it felt weird to me that nothing of the sort is ever included neither in the profiles nor mentioned in threads (believe me, I read quite a few vs threads b4 I ever made the profile, not as many as any regular user but still...I did do my homework) so I was wondering if that was an actual thing that is taken into account (in which case something like the Horror would need to be 8-A, higher with sword) or if it's meant to be implicilty included in their rating.

I know I may be pedantic/annoying but let me assure you that more than anything...I'm curious

I don't believe we handle dex saves as being anything more than speed, with or without magical resistance. I'm aware 5e handles this bit... poorly. But yeah, we don't correlate those two things, since as you say, that'd be goofy.

I will say that D&D has precedence for extremely goofy resistances. I don't think you can resist Evard's Black Tentacles, in that you prevent it from happening, but D&D has had spells like that, from the Olden Days. Also, Evard's is a dexterity save, see first point.

I'm aware of what piercing damage is, it isn't a very good argument. I don't think it needs mentioned in the profile that you can stab with a sword, and it is better than bludgeoning, but swords tend to be used for slashing more than piercing regardless. So basically, yes, that is an actual thing, it is recognized on this wiki, I was aware of it when I voted and it doesn't change my opinion on your match.

Btw, since it seems like it may not be fully clear: I'm not arguing on your profile page to change your opinion on the match, I never was, (I'm actually moderatly disappointed that it ended up so "one dimentional" but that's besides the point) I'm just trying to understand stuff for possible future matches...and possibly trying to find a reason to justify 2/3/4 Horrors vs Ainz with the Staff as a round 2 (and the only way this isn't a stomp is if his spells can do dmg) ...regardeless...thx btw, I'm glad that you seem to have the patience to keep responding.

ANYWAY

I don't believe we handle dex saves as being anything more than speed, with or without magical resistance. I'm aware 5e handles this bit... poorly. But yeah, we don't correlate those two things, since as you say, that'd be goofy.

Yeah I kind of agree but my point was slightly different: the spells that tend to force Dex saves follow a very clear "pattern" of being the big fk-off blasts that need to be dodged (mechanics wise creatures with magic resistance have an easier time succeding,"in reality" this would translate to the creature taking less dmg) so it doesn't seem like the "Dex save for 1/2" is a thing because it's a D&D spell but it looks like it's a thing because it's a "big fk off blast" meaning any "big fk-off blast" type spell would do the same, even if it's coming from another verse.

I will say that D&D has precedence for extremely goofy resistances. I don't think you can resist Evard's Black Tentacles, in that you prevent it from happening, but D&D has had spells like that, from the Olden Days. Also, Evard's is a dexterity save, see first point.

I agree...you can not prevent Evard's Black Tentacles from happening, and it forces a Dex save for exacly the same reason that the "big fk off blasts" did, only difference is that it doesn't deal dmg if you make the save iIrc (makes sense, success means you dodged the tentacles...a.k.a. the only thing that can damage you) so, once again, magic resistance would make the creature take less dmg overall but it wouldn't ignore it and, once again, that's a property of the spell being a phisical object coming to fk you up, meaning the same happens even if it's a non-D&D spell that created the object that's coming to fk you up.

I'm aware of what piercing damage is, it isn't a very good argument. I don't think it needs mentioned in the profile that you can stab with a sword, and it is better than bludgeoning, but swords tend to be used for slashing more than piercing regardless. So basically, yes, that is an actual thing, it is recognized on this wiki, I was aware of it when I voted and it doesn't change my opinion on your match.

I wasn't trying to sway your opinion on the result. My main question was "aren't profiles made with this included?" I'll try to clarify with an example: both the Eidolon and the Horror scale to the Disintegrate calc...does the Horror scale higher because it has a sword (while the Eidolon only has fists) or does the Horror scale to that value because it has a sword? (given my understanding of profiles the second option would seem to be the more sensible one)

I suppose your position on blasting spells is fair. I'm extremely tired at the moment so I'm going to leave that at that.

As for piercing... neither of those, I think. It's more like the method of piercing allows attacks that use it to functionally be stronger in the same setting. If the Horror were forced to punch, it'd be no different than the Eidolon.