VS Battles Wiki Forum

It has more to do with fighting style. We don't know how strong Base Kaidou is with physicals alone as he is always using his Kanabo, which doesn't transfer over to the dragon form (it does however transfer over to Hybrid which is why he has a VC statement on his hybrid amping his physical strength even further).

If Kaido with Hassaikai=BM with Napoleon(Both with & without Hao) then wouldn't Kaido~BM in physicals(minus Durability)? The Magazine also supports what you said for Hybrid as it calls the most balanced form meant for serious fights.

Is any of this even allowed?

As far as I'm aware It's not, changes to profiles' stat justifications require CRT to be made.

After the Haki CTR I'll make an Admiral CTR, fix what he did & other stuff related to the Admirals & characters who fought them.

Btw, after clicking that link to the wall I noticed the discussion on the shichibukai scaling & hancock scaling. I would appreciate discussing it on here before any CRT is made as I believe I could give some insight into it.

Lets see now: I don't plan on realesing that ctr anytime soon, i don't have the scans ready, you've done ctrs about those characters before; sure we can discuss it.
So i was gonna mention the Warlords title has been implied to be strength related a couple times so more of them need to get the whole "Marine+Warlords vs Yonko" balance as part of their scaling. Seriously, how does Boa get this but Mihawk not?
Then i would expalin the people that defenetly wouldn't get this mentioned: Young Moria was a powerhouse challenging a younger base Kaido. Doffy had respect for Crocodile(MF+DR), Crocodile in his youth challenged WB & lost to him specifically. In the novel WB mentions he usually picks up challenges from "brilliant youngsters". Thriller Bark Moria & Alabasta Crocodile had declined & were unfit of their title as they spent years in Paradise on big plans(creating a zombie army or searching for the Pluton) rather than increasing their own battle power in the New World like some of the current Supernova. The WG found this out about Moria during MF that's why they had Doffy attempt to kill Moria. Buggy becoming a Warlord is no different than him becoming a Yonko, he was mistakening for more powerful than he actually is. When making him a Warlord they thought he & Luffy were the masterminds behind the impel down breakdown, he has an army of impel down prisoners under him(which WB called them useful) & he had an "argument" with Shanks. When they made him a Yonko they thought he had Crocodile & Mihawk under him.
I'll get more specific with Crocodile & Boa later.

Definitely the warlord title is supposed to be a strength related title; the individuals themselves (their crew's aren't a factor) are meant to be be capable of fighting the four emperor's of the sea making up balance of the three great powers. For Hancock she specifically reveals that she was chosen for her strength and thus we know the reasoning for her being a warlord is legitimate.

Like you already explained with Moria he grew weaker from his prime which is exactly why he got booted out and Buggy was mistaken for more than he truly is. For Crocodile I don't believe in story it was ever explained that he truly declined in strength (more so a fan theory/explanation) but in the first place I believe his lose to Whitebeard was described as a one-sided and utter defeat (Just going off vague memory so I might be misremembering here).

For Doflamingo we know he cheated the WG to gain his position so he obviously wouldn't qualify as legitimate for the title.

For the rest it could be assumed they gained their title legitimately for their individual power (Mihawk & Weevil especially) but considering how a lot of the other members weren't truly worthy and the fact we don't truly know how they gained said titles or for what reason adding the justification for them could potentially be inaccurate.

Wasn't she talking about the Warlords being choosen for their strength or is this bad translation? Crocodile implies strength in his title too.

That Crocodile's loss against WB was onesided is obvious i don't doubt that. Tho is it that farfetched to say he got weaker? He was in a simular situation to Moria & Doffy seemed to respect him on previous knowledge(I doubt he would respect sb ~ Alabasta Luffy level).

Agreed. Databook Green also mentioned him likely having a different contract with the WG than the other Warlords.

Blackbeard defenetly got his title for his strength, defeating Ace. Shanks mentioned he was hiding under WB's shadow, never became a commander and had a bounty of 0 berry before MF meaning it has nth to do with previous fame or anything else but power. Jimbei fought (post-Sabaody/pre-WB commander) Ace who was considered Warlord Material(Then again Ace might've been invited as trap assuming Sengoku already discovered he was Roger's son). Law & Kuma's are still too vague I'll admit it.

she talking about the Warlords being choosen for their strength or is this bad translation? Crocodile implies strength in his title too.

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The point of the title absolutely is for them to individually be strong and be at a certain level, With Hancock she would have specifically been talking from her own experience of being anointed as a warlord, but, whether or not that applies to everyone else is unknown as Hancock herself probably isn't that aware of how/why the others were anointed.

Crocodile implies strength in his title too. That Crocodile's loss against WB was onesided is obvious i don't doubt that. Tho is it that farfetched to say he got weaker? He was in a simular situation to Moria & Doffy seemed to respect him on previous knowledge(I doubt he would respect sb ~ Alabasta Luffy level).

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Crocodile's statement does imply that he was chosen for his strength, Although, he's implying that he himself is still on that level at Alabasta when facing Luffy which is impossible. I believe It's ultimately an issue with power creep; Crocodile was supposed to be on that level of strength but was defeated too early by Luffy (At least this is my interpretation).

Blackbeard defenetly got his title for his strength, defeating Ace. Shanks mentioned he was hiding under WB's shadow, never became a commander and had a bounty of 0 berry before MF meaning it has nth to do with previous fame or anything else but power

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Blackbeard definitely seems valid (although getting his subordinate to propose BB as a warlord candidate at the meeting & being the one to capture Ace who the marines wanted may have influenced it a bit).

Jimbei fought (post-Sabaody/pre-WB commander) Ace who was considered Warlord Material(Then again Ace might've been invited as trap assuming Sengoku already discovered he was Roger's son).

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Yeah I believe Ace getting offered a warlord position was mainly due to his connection to Roger & although Jinbe was likely chosen for being strong Iirc I believe him being chosen was also meant to be considered a symbol of peace between the fishmen and the WG (Although I may be misremembering this part).

First of all, sorry for the last respond.

Hancock likely was informed for rules of the Warlords when she got membership such as strenght usually being a must-have. Tho I'll admit she probably isn't up-to-date with the other Warlords seeing how her going to Impel Down was the 1st time she ever met Jimbei.

I would throw Crocodile thinking he's still Warlord level at Alabasta as him being cocky & delusional just like Moria thinking he could beat Kuma & Jimbei Pre-TS.

OK.

I think that page of the novel you posted on "P.WB vs Kaido" supports Jimbei getting memebership for his strength.

I would throw Crocodile thinking he's still Warlord level at Alabasta as him being cocky & delusional just like Moria thinking he could beat Kuma & Jimbei Pre-TS.

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Either delusional or power creep since Moria also believed if he had Oars he wouldn't have lost to Kaidou or something.

I think that page of the novel you posted on "P.WB vs Kaido" supports Jimbei getting memebership for his strength.

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Which part exactly?

He did? I thought he said sth about becomig getting shadows from stronger people thanks with Oars' help or sth?

The 1st paragraph here: Jimbei, the Warlords, the Yonko were made of sterner stuff than your average Logia user.

I'd have to go back and check, based on memory alone I think he states that if he had Oars w/Luffy's shadow he wouldn't have lost back then.

I think it's just in reference to the whole Overconfident Logia thing that was a big deal going into the Post-Timeskip as shown with Caribou & Pekoms.

Aight, i'll wait on that.

OK.

Want me to start getting more specific about Crocodile & Boa's stats?

Sure

Alright then, I'll start with Crocodile
AP: I'm OK with his clash. I think we could use Doffy & Crocodile's dialogue as support as to them being on the same level too.
Durability & Reactions: Came out unharmed after his fight with Doffy. About Jozu, I'm doubting he went for a killing blow against Crocodile. IIRC Thatch told Ace in the Novel that nobody in the crew tried to kill Ace for his assassinations attemps against WB because he was no real threat to WB. Also even Doffy managed to tag Jozu mid dash-attack meaning he wasn't going full speed either.
Ivankov: "Upon encountering Crocodile in Impel Down, he mentioned that he could defeat the former Shichibuaki if necessary."-2 options here
1.Upgrade Ivankov to Large Mountain/Multi-Continent Level & give Iva possibly Armament Haki. I disagree with this option since Iva~Kuma/Magellan level in physicality who are just above G2 MF Luffy.
2.Remove this from Iva's page. Ivankov was either planning to use Crocodile secret against him or was just cocky and maybe thought current Crocodile was as weak as he was as a Rookie when they 1st met. In Impel Down, the scaling was pretty consistent, the deeper the level, the stronger the prisoners are, so Crocodile>Iva.

I'll respond to the rest later but yeah i agree the justification should be removed from Ivankov, the only reason it wasn't removed when Croc was updated was because I was unaware of the justification being used in the first place.

AP: I'm OK with his clash. I think we could use Doffy & Crocodile's dialogue as support as to them being on the same level too.

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Yeah it seems to suggest that or even that Crocodile may be stronger (although this is potentially him being arrogant like he accused Doffy of being)

Durability & Reactions: Came out unharmed after his fight with Doffy. About Jozu, I'm doubting he went for a killing blow against Crocodile. IIRC Thatch told Ace in the Novel that nobody in the crew tried to kill Ace for his assassinations attemps against WB because he was no real threat to WB. Also even Doffy managed to tag Jozu mid dash-attack meaning he wasn't going full speed either.

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Sure I agree with the first part on doffy. While it's true Ace wasn't considered a threat to WB this could be due to a few reasons when compared with Crocodile:

• Crocodile is considered stronger than that version of Ace and thus a threat to WB
• WB is considerably more vulnerable due to being off his meds (Similar to the reason Squard got the better of him)
• Crocodile is attacking him during an active war/battlefield while Ace was simply attacking him on the ship where there is no real significant outside threat that would be effected by his actions.

I think it's possible all the above play a part in the reasons why Crocodile was considered a more serious threat than Ace, but, the main reason Is most likely due to Crocodile attacking members of the Whitebeard Pirates to try and reach Whitebeard which is most likely what prompted Jozu to go on the offensive.

For the Doffy part I don't really think it's evidence of Jozu holding back, it could be considered potentially as an upgrade for Doffy's reactions or an outlier (assuming the latter has any support for it being an outlier for what Doffy is capable of)

Defenetly arrogance: In the 2nd page Doffy mentions he's being unreasonable, has been like that in the past & Crocodile even agrees with him. If Croc really was stronger he would've killed/beaten him up for getting his head chopped yet Doffy was fine in the end of the war. Also he threatened Mihawk not to piss him off.

-Maybe, we don't know for sure. Even if he's stronger than Rookie Ace he would still be no threat to end of MF dying WB, let alone WB at the start of the war. That's how wide the power gap is.
-Eh at that point in the war i would agrue he wasn't. It takes quite some time for him to really weaken from lack of medicine like Ace's 1st duel: It started in day-time, ended in night-time & he didn't start having health issues. His observation was still working fine during Croc's sneak attack for instance. After Luffy left WB's ship, Crocodile got kicked out of it off-screen instead of getting killed/beaten badly.
-Jinbei nearly got killed by Ace & their duel caused collateral damage on that island which was WB territoty. Doma & Cands attacked WB's territority yet they were sparred & later became allies. Most of the prisinors in Level 6 Impel Down, tried to kill WB sometime in the past & were sparred too desipite how evil they were. I agree Jozu attacked Croc in respond to him attacking foot-soilders, but still doubt he was going for the kill.

Meh, i don't see how Doffy intercepting Jozu is any different from these cases: Mr.1 intercepting Mihawk from slashing Luffy, Jimbei intercepting Akainu from hitting Ace's corpse despite being father from them than Luffy, Sanji & Luffy intercepting BM from zapping Reiju ecc. If Doffy really get upgraded would this mess with the speed of early post-timeskip arcs?