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Champion of Midgard: The Thor Odinson MegaCRT

1. I agree with 1-A+ inner essence base Thor. However, it seems that I'm in the minority here, hence the concessions in the profile for the sake of moving the revisions along.
2. I'm not so sure about Set and Chthon really being the strongest. Taking different strategies to escape Atum doesn't necessarily mean that they're stronger or weaker, while it was outright stated that none of the other Elder Gods could challenge Kemur before Atum came along. Narratively that would include Set and Chthon--not that they aren't powerful, and they might have their own statements, but they essentially got power-crept by Ewing.
3. All Elder Gods are the same type of being, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're all the same power level. By that logic all regular gods are the same power level, but what we actually see is tremendous variance. Among Asgardians, for example, you can find Spider-Man tier warriors as well as low outerversal super-deities, and the same is true for any of the other pantheons.
4. It's possible that Set, Chthon, Gaea, and Oshtur are theoretically comparable to the Utgard Gods, but it would be better to have something on-screen showing that for sure.
5. In terms of the Nyx stuff... right now, full-power Nyx upon reclaiming all of the Night Shards is accepted on the wiki as High 1-A. The Nyx that Loki thought was too evenly matched with Thor to be an interesting challenge was at her previous full power in Antarctica thanks to two endless nights, with Hercules remarking that she'd surpassed her previous levels. Severely weakened Nyx completely stomped regular skyfather-level Zeus, effortlessly snapping his neck, and as she regained the Night Shards her power increased exponentially. Contextually, it makes far more sense for Hercules to be referring to Nyx's previous peak of power the last time he saw her, after she'd regained all three Night Shards, rather than what she'd been millennia earlier. Reborn Zeus seems to be on a completely different realm of power than his original form, as both Loki and WoG outright refer to him as a greater danger than this amped Nyx, who narratively is far beyond regular Zeus.

Regular Zeus < Severely weakened Nyx << 1 Night Shard Nyx << 2 Night Shards Nyx << Full Power Nyx < Amped Antarctica Nyx < Amped Dark Cold Room Nyx < Reborn Zeus < Immortal Thor. However, Thor stomping Zeus who was stated to be a greater danger than amped Nyx is somewhat contradicted by Loki regarding amped Nyx and Thor to be evenly matched, hence the "possibly High 1-A" rather than a solid rating. Additionally, neither Thor nor Reborn Zeus scale to Nyx once she speaks to Hercules and realizes she can expand infinitely in the Dark Cold Room/Land Without Suns/Shadow Kingdom (which are all different names for the same place). That would be the strongest Nyx ever seen and isn't particularly relevant for the scaling here.

Of course, that's moot if Nyx isn't High 1-A, but that's not a conversation for this thread.
1.) I don't intend on pursuing this point that much further given that it has already been discussed in great detail, I was just pointing out that while his inner essence typically operates on a Low-1A level, it should at its maximum potential vary up to 1A+
2.) At the end of the day it doesn't really matter who is or is not the strongest as they are roughly comparable.
3.) From what we have been shown throughout Marvel Comics history, The Elder Gods did not have a society in the way that The Olympians or Asgaridans did (Utgard is the only exception; however, one can't consider a group of 5 individuals a society), they have all been shown to be cosmically powerful beings with different domains. At the moment, we have yet to see a fodder tier Elder God. While it is not impossible that such a thing exists, it has not been shown. The "weak" Elder Gods were likely devoured by their more powerful siblings or later by The Demogorge if they managed to survive that.
4.) The feat of Gaea's essence being enough for Hercules to temporarily match Chaos King, who had grown so powerful that Multi-Death stopped representing her concept and was in hiding and had also devoured almost all of Multi-Eternity, shows that the major Elder Gods all have feats at the same level as the Utgard Gods. There are also some things with Chthon that back this up such as when he nearly killed Eternity while possessing Quicksilver, given that Eternity mentions this while in Overspace, it may have been his Multi-Eternity form. Chthon is also said to have the power to kill the entirety of The Celestial race. And the artifacts of Gaea, Oshtur, Set, and Chthon form The Four Cornerstones of Creation. All in all the top tier Elder Gods are pretty consistently matched with each other. What we do know is that NONE of The Elder Gods are above The Demogorge and all gods and Elder Gods fear his power. There are some exceptions such as Set when empowered by the age of reptiles was able to fight the Demogorge one on one for eons before being defeated and banished again or Chthon with prep time developing a spell to create his own Demogorge; however, on their own at their base level all of them are below and susceptible to the power of the Demogorge.

Most importantly:
5.) The problem with The Nyx scaling is it doesn't accurately represent how she is depicted. Before getting to that though, Thor does not even have a mechanism for reaching High-1A in the first place. His half Elder God nature caps at 1A+ and he has fought and significantly struggled with 1A+ Elder Gods. There is no possible way for Thor to have a Meta-Qualitative superiority without exceptionally strong logical evidence of such given the magnitude of the tier and its extremely strict requirements. Similarly, there is also no mechanism that that would have augmented Zeus to High-1A either. But neither of those things even matter as the feat regarding Nyx and amped Zeus does not involve the High-1A form of Nyx in the first place. Nyx has many forms: Her regularly seen form inside the universe as a member of various pantheons (typically as a member of the Greek Pantheon), her true form that embodies the darkness that contains The Tiger God and surrounds the fire of The Phoenix Force (we have actually never been shown this form and have only seen elusions and references of its existence throughout the work of Al-Ewing), and finally there is her ascended form having entered The House of Ideas. The problem with her page is that it calls her true nature as the darkness surrounding The Phoenix Force her "full power" key and her state post Zeus defeat her "weakened" key when this is not at all accurate. Her second key represents her true form while the first key is not her "weakened" key but how she is depicted as an in universe entity as a member of the various godly pantheons. She has been part of many pantheons, The Greeks gave her most notable name "Nyx" and while with the Norse pantheon she went by "Nott" and has been part of many others. This is the form that Thor fought, not her uber powerful true form. When in universe, Nyx has been consistently portrayed as vastly superior to sky fathers and while weakened could easily kill Zeus, a skyfather, and tear at the fabric of 616-Eternity itself. During Immortal Thor, we are again shown this in universe manifestation of Nyx that had become more powerful than she was prior to her banishment from The greek Pantheon. Short of being empowered by TOAA itself, the number of things in Marvel that could possibly get Thor to High-1A doesn't even need a full hand to count and as shown is entirely unreasonable in the first place since the Nyx that Thor is stated to be comparable to is not the True Form version.

Her accurate forms are as follows:

The following keys represent different states of Nyx's In Universe Depictions:
Zeus
< Weakened In Universe Nyx (This represents Nyx's state post banishment from The Greek Pantheon. This is the state she is in after escaping banishment throughout Avengers No Road Home) <<< Base In Universe Nyx (Before and after being encountered by The Greek Pantheon) [This is in universe form Nyx's natural base power level and is equivalent to when she has all of her "Night Shards". Even when not having all of them, she was capable of "tearing the skin of the universe" {Earth-616 Eternity} ] < Immortal Thor #13 Nyx (It is implied that she caused a second "Endless Night" that increased her power past her base level) ~ Amped Immortal Thor #14 Zeus {While Loki and Word of God states that he is a greater threat than Nyx, this is not really supported by what is shown throughout Immortal Thor #14.) <<< Nyx as seen at the end of Immortal Thor #14 (Nyx is far more powerful than ever before having realized the nature of the realm she is in is perfect for her gaining total mastery and power over it. She states that she will fashion her own entire universe [likely equal to Earth-616 Eternity in scale] within it.)

True Form: The gulf between her in universe form and her true form is so unimaginably massive that it is practically impossible to convey in any form of language without simply repeating the VS Wiki definitions of Meta Qualitative transcendence. In this state she is the literal formless darkness that encompasses the light of the true form Phoenix Force and is the same darkness in which the Phoenix Force's opposite, The Tiger God, stalks it from.

The revised wording along with some additional scans that I suggested in my previous comment accurately reflect the level of Nyx that Thor is comparable to:

The Immortal All-Father key should be adjusted as follows:

Attack Potency: Varies according to the Allsleep. From at least Low Outerverse level (Stomped Gorr and Twilight Sword Mangog simultaneously. Oneshot Frost Giant Zarathos. Far superior to his base, who overpowered the totality of Yggdrasil's strength) likely Outerverse level (He is on roughly the same level as an in universe manifestation of Nyx who had fully recovered her strength and surpassed her previous peak of power. The first "Endless Night" restored her in universe form "back from dust and ash" (as seen in Avengers No Road Home) and a second Endless Night "restored [her] power" (as seen in Immortal Thor) such that she has surpassed the power that she had prior to being banished by Zeus when she was part of The Greek Pantheon to the degree that Hercules says: "The Night Queen is not recovering--she has recovered all her power and more! He overpowered a massively amped Reborn Zeus, who easily withstood an attack from Nyx that Thor and Hercules were weary to endure themselves and was stated by God of Stories Loki and WoG to be an even greater danger than Nyx. However, these later statements are not really supported by what is shown as Zeus considers her "A being of great power and great darkness" and even takes up the cause of night. Nyx is unimpressed with the fight between Thor and Zeus and sarcastically asks Zeus if he wants help. Upon realizing that The Land Without Suns is an ideal environment for her, she becomes far more powerful with Hercules stating: "What about it, loki? Ready to send us home? Because if not... Well, I think Nyx outranks you now.") up to Outerverse level+ (Reforged Mjolnir stronger than ever, so should be above his previous peak as All-Father. Broke out of Gaea's restraints and decapitated her while she was merciless and in the place of her power, with Gaea's power being capable of matching the Chaos King. [https://imgchest.com/p/ne7breb8vy5 Bloodlusted Thor single-handedly defeated the Elder Gods NRGL and Mejed, with Utgard Elder Gods being primordial concepts as above the Aesir as Aesir are above mortals, and regular gods being only stories and "shadow-play on a cave wall" compared to the Utgard Elder Gods. Jane Foster borrowing Thor's power cracked the Wheel of Fate wielded by Toranos, who was comparable to Utgard-Loki, and Thor was able to kill a weakened Toranos. Knocked down and bloodied Kemur, who "none could challenge" except Atum, with their confrontation "deciding the fates" of all other Elder Gods. Kemur is shown to have fought and implied to be superior to Utgard-Loki, who used Mistress Death and Eternity as puppets in his trials and created Utgard, a realm in the Mystery beyond "all charts, maps, rule, and theory" existing only in metaphor, "outside existence and no realm at all", that was where gods erased from existence by Oblivion went, representing The-Land-of-True-Things compared to the dream of reality, that transcended Multi-Eternity)
 
I largely agree with Elephant here, but the two darknesses that empowered Nyx were not caused by herself, but by Knull and Varnae respectively during event storylines. 🙏
 
1.) I don't intend on pursuing this point that much further given that it has already been discussed in great detail, I was just pointing out that while his inner essence typically operates on a Low-1A level, it should at its maximum potential vary up to 1A+
2.) At the end of the day it doesn't really matter who is or is not the strongest as they are roughly comparable.
3.) From what we have been shown throughout Marvel Comics history, The Elder Gods did not have a society in the way that The Olympians or Asgaridans did (Utgard is the only exception; however, one can't consider a group of 5 individuals a society), they have all been shown to be cosmically powerful beings with different domains. At the moment, we have yet to see a fodder tier Elder God. While it is not impossible that such a thing exists, it has not been shown. The "weak" Elder Gods were likely devoured by their more powerful siblings or later by The Demogorge if they managed to survive that.
4.) The feat of Gaea's essence being enough for Hercules to temporarily match Chaos King, who had grown so powerful that Multi-Death stopped representing her concept and was in hiding and had also devoured almost all of Multi-Eternity, shows that the major Elder Gods all have feats at the same level as the Utgard Gods. There are also some things with Chthon that back this up such as when he nearly killed Eternity while possessing Quicksilver, given that Eternity mentions this while in Overspace, it may have been his Multi-Eternity form. Chthon is also said to have the power to kill the entirety of The Celestial race. And the artifacts of Gaea, Oshtur, Set, and Chthon form The Four Cornerstones of Creation. All in all the top tier Elder Gods are pretty consistently matched with each other. What we do know is that NONE of The Elder Gods are above The Demogorge and all gods and Elder Gods fear his power. There are some exceptions such as Set when empowered by the age of reptiles was able to fight the Demogorge one on one for eons before being defeated and banished again or Chthon with prep time developing a spell to create his own Demogorge; however, on their own at their base level all of them are below and susceptible to the power of the Demogorge.

Most importantly:
5.) The problem with The Nyx scaling is it doesn't accurately represent how she is depicted. Before getting to that though, Thor does not even have a mechanism for reaching High-1A in the first place. His half Elder God nature caps at 1A+ and he has fought and significantly struggled with 1A+ Elder Gods. There is no possible way for Thor to have a Meta-Qualitative superiority without exceptionally strong logical evidence of such given the magnitude of the tier and its extremely strict requirements. Similarly, there is also no mechanism that that would have augmented Zeus to High-1A either. But neither of those things even matter as the feat regarding Nyx and amped Zeus does not involve the High-1A form of Nyx in the first place. Nyx has many forms: Her regularly seen form inside the universe as a member of various pantheons (typically as a member of the Greek Pantheon), her true form that embodies the darkness that contains The Tiger God and surrounds the fire of The Phoenix Force (we have actually never been shown this form and have only seen elusions and references of its existence throughout the work of Al-Ewing), and finally there is her ascended form having entered The House of Ideas. The problem with her page is that it calls her true nature as the darkness surrounding The Phoenix Force her "full power" key and her state post Zeus defeat her "weakened" key when this is not at all accurate. Her second key represents her true form while the first key is not her "weakened" key but how she is depicted as an in universe entity as a member of the various godly pantheons. She has been part of many pantheons, The Greeks gave her most notable name "Nyx" and while with the Norse pantheon she went by "Nott" and has been part of many others. This is the form that Thor fought, not her uber powerful true form. When in universe, Nyx has been consistently portrayed as vastly superior to sky fathers and while weakened could easily kill Zeus, a skyfather, and tear at the fabric of 616-Eternity itself. During Immortal Thor, we are again shown this in universe manifestation of Nyx that had become more powerful than she was prior to her banishment from The greek Pantheon. Short of being empowered by TOAA itself, the number of things in Marvel that could possibly get Thor to High-1A doesn't even need a full hand to count and as shown is entirely unreasonable in the first place since the Nyx that Thor is stated to be comparable to is not the True Form version.

Her accurate forms are as follows:

The following keys represent different states of Nyx's In Universe Depictions:
Zeus
< Weakened In Universe Nyx (This represents Nyx's state post banishment from The Greek Pantheon. This is the state she is in after escaping banishment throughout Avengers No Road Home) <<< Base In Universe Nyx (Before and after being encountered by The Greek Pantheon) [This is in universe form Nyx's natural base power level and is equivalent to when she has all of her "Night Shards". Even when not having all of them, she was capable of "tearing the skin of the universe" {Earth-616 Eternity} ] < Immortal Thor #13 Nyx (It is implied that she caused a second "Endless Night" that increased her power past her base level) ~ Amped Immortal Thor #14 Zeus {While Loki and Word of God states that he is a greater threat than Nyx, this is not really supported by what is shown throughout Immortal Thor #14.) <<< Nyx as seen at the end of Immortal Thor #14 (Nyx is far more powerful than ever before having realized the nature of the realm she is in is perfect for her gaining total mastery and power over it. She states that she will fashion her own entire universe [likely equal to Earth-616 Eternity in scale] within it.)

True Form: The gulf between her in universe form and her true form is so unimaginably massive that it is practically impossible to convey in any form of language without simply repeating the VS Wiki definitions of Meta Qualitative transcendence. In this state she is the literal formless darkness that encompasses the light of the true form Phoenix Force and is the same darkness in which the Phoenix Force's opposite, The Tiger God, stalks it from.

The revised wording along with some additional scans that I suggested in my previous comment accurately reflect the level of Nyx that Thor is comparable to:
I can see your logic. The issue is that the text itself never states that "this is the lower form of Nyx", only that she's at "greater than full power". Reborn Zeus > amped Nyx is also not really a problem, since we have an in universe and WoG statement describing him as a greater threat and we see that he takes zero damage in his fight with Nyx, both on and off screen. He can respect Nyx's "great power" while still being superior to her. Saying that this Nyx isn't at beyond max strength is imposing a reading into the text that isn't originally there.
 
What you are not understanding is simply how ridiculously powerful a High-1A is compared to a 1A+ being. It is not some simple transcendence. The difference between the tier is such that the entire tiering system from 11-C to Low-1A is repeated between 1A and High-1A. Except this time 11-C is baseline 1A and instead of “dimensional differences” the transcendences between each level are qualitative in nature. Infinite degrees of qualitative transcendence grants one 1A+ which is where the Multi-Abstracts and true nature Elder Gods scale. Like with Low-1A, 1A+ goes on forever completely unbounded. It is literally impossible under ANY and all circumstances to reach High-1A from below even as a 1A+ being. The ONLY way this can happen is with the assistance of an actual High-1A being.

With that being said, Thor DOES NOT have a mechanism that allows him to tap into a High-1A power source. And as stated, it is IMPOSSIBLE for him to bridge the gap between 1A+ and High-1A without external assistance. There are very few beings in Marvel that are High-1A and none of them are depicted or even referenced in Immortal Thor #s 13 or 14 so he could not have received some head cannon rationalized amplification.

The problem gets even worse for Zeus. At least Thor has the half Elder Gods heritage that, under the best of circumstances, can grant him 1A+ abilities. Zeus is just a regular skyfather capping at Low-1A. Under normal circumstances, even with his best showings, the guy does not even qualify for a qualitative transcendence which would grant him a 1A level. While he is amped here, it is simply impossible that he was amped to a High-1A level and is illogical to think so. At best, he is operating at a 1A level.

As for evaluating the difference between the true form of Nyx and her regular in universe depictions, this requires using both logic, consistency, and context clues. This is the same way that we determine whether a depiction of Eternity is an M body, the Universal form, or Multi-Abstract form. Or, to provide example form another similar comic universe, in DC this is how it is determined if a depiction of Darkseid is either an Avatar, an Emanation, or his Godhead.

Logic: It has already been demonstrably proven that neither Thor or Zeus have anyway of accessing High-1A power. Granting even a possibly High-1A power requires irrefutable evidence and that does not exist here. Any rationalization around how he could be High-1A is purely head cannon and not supported by the comics.

Consistency: Has Thor operated or drawn upon High-1A power before or after Immortal Thor #s 13 and 14? No he has not. At the very best you could say that he has access to The Phoenix Force; however, not on a High-1A level. Much like the other Phoenix Force users, with the exception of Jean Grey in certain circumstances, none of them can access The Phoenix Force in its entirety. Even if he COULD use the entirety of the High-1A Phoenix Force, the opposite of The Phoenix Force is the Tiger God and the two forces are equal in standing locked in an equilibrium. The true form of Nyx is the formless darkness itself that encompasses both, existing as a neutral force (unless provoked). As such, he would not even be able to do anything to harm true form Nyx as “She” exists as the level of reality that encompasses both The Phoenix Force and Tiger God and would be beyond the capacity of The Phoenix Force to affect. Additionally, Thor struggles massively with Elder Gods throughout the Immortal Thor comic series, if he could randomly tap into High-1A power he would just obliterate them. It would be irresponsible of him and out of character for him to not do this if he had the capability of doing so. He knows that the Utgard Gods are very powerful and malicious entities, he does not hold back or reserve his power when facing such beings.

Context Clues: What has been said and shown regarding Nyx both in Immortal Thor #s 13 and 14 as well as in previous comics? In issue 13 Nyx is mentioned to have been part of The Greek Pantheon by Hercules. Thor says that for the Asgardians she goes by Nott and that Odin once gave her a horse as a gift. They are clearly referring to her regular in universe pantheon depiction NOT her true self. Thor and Hercules literally travel to Antarctica to find her, not some totally transcendent realm beyond everything that encompasses both the true White Hot Room and Tiger God. At the end of Immortal Thor #14 Nyx remarks how she will be able to make a universes (likely on the level of 616-Eternity given that even her weakest version could tear at the skin of Eternity) compete with “temples to stillness” and entire “worlds in the dark”. These are not feats that a High-1A entity would ever consider significant. It is quite obvious that this is not her true form. In the past, in Avengers No Road Home, we are introduced to the in universe form of Nyx and this is the form that we are shown throughout the story. The story shows her post banishment from the Greek Pantheon form rebuilding her power to what she was before her banishment. Ultimately she reached The House of Ideas via the entrance on Long Island, in an attempt to reshape everything. Her capabilities in the House are not important to any scaling as any entity in THOI gains the same nature as shown by Vision, Nyx merely has more knowledge as a god allowing her to use it more effectively such that she could have restructured the entire cosmology had Vision not stopped her. There are only two times that the true form of Nyx is shown. The first is in Avengers No Road Home when she is described as the darkness itself and the image of a camp fire is shown along with the image of a tiger with the fire representing The Phoenix Force and the Tiger representing The Tiger God. The second time is in Defenders Beyond, the same set up is shown again except this time, instead of being a metaphor, the actual Phoenix Force and Tiger God are shown with The Phoenix stating “Beyond me? There is Darkness human. Darkness without end.” The Tiger God is shown in this darkness followed by Tigra leading it to The White Hot Room where she and it fight The Phoenix Force and Taaia. Outside of those two depictions, the True form of Nyx has never made an appearance. Noticeably, in these two depictions, she is completely WITHOUT FORM and existing purely as darkness itself.


Anyways, the High-1A stuff should be changed to 1A in the manner shown in my previous comment, the rest of the profile looks good and you have my support in that regard.
 
Sorry for the late response--I've been working in the yard and fixing chainsaws 😂 I spoke with Eseseso, who added the High 1-A to Nyx's profile, and he clarified the situation with Nyx to me. I've edited Immortal Thor to reflect his and Elephant's feedback.

Pretty sure we're good to go! I combed through to fix typos this morning as well as added a better link for MFTL+. Ant, any further feedback? What steps are needed to apply changes?
 
Sorry for the late response--I've been working in the yard and fixing chainsaws 😂 I spoke with Eseseso, who added the High 1-A to Nyx's profile, and he clarified the situation with Nyx to me. I've edited Immortal Thor to reflect his and Elephant's feedback.

Pretty sure we're good to go! I combed through to fix typos this morning as well as added a better link for MFTL+. Ant, any further feedback? What steps are needed to apply changes?
Glad that we could reach an agreement. Just one more thing, you should update the now Outerverse section of “Immortal All-Father Thor” such that it better reflects these changes. As the current justification still has stuff referring to her primal aspect self. My version just clarifies the nature of Nyx that Thor was stated to be comparable to by Loki as well as providing a few more scans.

Attack Potency: Varies according to the Allsleep. From at least Low Outerverse level (Stomped Gorr and Twilight Sword Mangog simultaneously. Oneshot Frost GiantZarathos. Far superior to his base, who overpowered the totality of Yggdrasil's strength) likely Outerverse level (He is on roughly the same level as an in universe manifestation of Nyx who had fully recovered her strength and surpassed her previous peak of power. The first "Endless Night" restored her in universe form "back from dust and ash" (as seen in Avengers No Road Home) and a second Endless Night "restored [her] power" (as seen in Immortal Thor) such that she has surpassed the power that she had prior to being banished by Zeus when she was part of The Greek Pantheon to the degree that Hercules says: "The Night Queen is not recovering--she has recovered all her power and more! He overpowered a massively amped Reborn Zeus, who easily withstood an attack from Nyx that Thor and Hercules were weary to endure themselves and was stated by God of Stories Loki and WoG to be an even greater danger than Nyx. However, these later statements are dubious given what is shown as Zeus considers her "A being of great power and great darkness" and even takes up the cause of night. Nyx is unimpressed with the fight between Thor and Zeus and sarcastically asks Zeus if he wants help. Upon realizing that The Land Without Suns is an ideal environment for her, she becomes far more powerful with Hercules stating: "What about it, loki? Ready to send us home? Because if not... Well, I think Nyx outranks you now.") up to Outerverse level+ at peak and with Rune Weapons (1 layer.Reforged Mjolnir stronger than ever, so should be above his previous peak as All-Father. Broke out of Gaea's restraints and decapitated her while she was merciless and in the place of her power, with Gaea's power being capable of matching the Chaos King. Bloodlusted Thor single-handedly defeated the Elder Gods NRGL and Mejed, with Utgard Elder Gods being primordial conceptsas above the Aesir as Aesir are above mortals, and regular gods being only stories and "shadow-play on a cave wall"compared to the Utgard Elder Gods. Jane Foster borrowing Thor's power cracked the Wheel of Fate wielded by Toranos, who was comparable to Utgard-Loki, and Thor was able to kill a weakened Toranos. Knocked down and bloodied Kemur, who "none could challenge"except Atum, with their confrontation "deciding the fates" of all other Elder Gods. Kemur is shown to have fought and implied to be superior to Utgard-Loki, who used Mistress Death and Eternity as puppets in his trials and created Utgard, a realm in the Mystery beyond "all charts, maps, rule, and theory" existing only in metaphor, "outside existence and no realm at all", that was where gods erased from existence by Oblivion went, representing The-Land-of-True-Things compared to the dream of reality, that transcended Multi-Eternity)
 
I'm against stating that level of specificity in the profile given how such specificity is not provided in the source material. It also creates a great deal of unnecessary clutter: the justifications you're suggesting read like a story overview and in-depth breakdown of Nyx's page with a large amount of irrelevant detail. It would be more efficient for a Nyx CRT to take place in which you put forth your arguments and flesh out her keys and justifications, so that way the reader can simply click on "Nyx" from Thor's AP section to see what's meant beyond the necessary information already provided.
 
Fair enough. I think you should use the first portion and delete the last part. You can put the following deleted stuff in a redirected note if you want: {However, these later statements are dubious given what is shown as Zeus considers her "A being of great power and great darkness" and even takes up the cause of night. Nyx is unimpressed with the fight between Thor and Zeus and sarcastically asks Zeus if he wants help. Upon realizing that The Land Without Suns is an ideal environment for her, she becomes far more powerful with Hercules stating: "What about it, loki? Ready to send us home? Because if not... Well, I think Nyx outranks you now."}
 
What makes Immortal All-Father Thor different from regular All-Father Thor, other than the Rune Weapons?
 
Fair enough. I think you should use the first portion and delete the last part. You can put the following deleted stuff in a redirected note if you want: {However, these later statements are dubious given what is shown as Zeus considers her "A being of great power and great darkness" and even takes up the cause of night. Nyx is unimpressed with the fight between Thor and Zeus and sarcastically asks Zeus if he wants help. Upon realizing that The Land Without Suns is an ideal environment for her, she becomes far more powerful with Hercules stating: "What about it, loki? Ready to send us home? Because if not... Well, I think Nyx outranks you now."}
I'll look through this when I have time to sit down. A note is likely the best approach
 
What makes Immortal All-Father Thor different from regular All-Father Thor, other than the Rune Weapons?
Mechanically, it's how he reforged Mjolnir stronger than ever. That was the reason Thor stated it was powerful enough to crack the Wheel of Fate, a feat that caused Toranos to crave its power, and Thor also used it to injure Kemur.
 
That's a valid point as well that would allow for Utgard Gods to be higher than typical Elder Gods. I don't think for a second that every Elder God is 1-A+, but the Utgard Gods have a pretty good case for it
I concur, I feel the other earthly elder gods like oshtur don't seem all that impressive or as conceptually grand as the elder gods from immortal thor. Gaea is a special case , and also Chthon. I wonder where all these place Atum who should be superior to all of them combined lol even according to Al Ewing, atum is just on another scale to Elder gods
 
Yeah, Atum under Ewing is treated as far superior even to his own Demogorge form, to the point where Gaea told All-Father Thor, who'd fought Demogorge multiple times in base, not to even try against Atum
 
I am not sure. Have you followed Elephant's instructions, and what are the remaining disagreements here? 🙏
 
Small nitpick but P&A of the Rune King Thor is still bad. It lacks refs and justification for his fate manipulation. I believe Fate is one of those abilities that require extra attention and staff approval, right?
 
Small nitpick but P&A of the Rune King Thor is still bad. It lacks refs and justification for his fate manipulation. I believe Fate is one of those abilities that require extra attention and staff approval, right?
Good point. I haven't touched RKT's P&A. What does that process look in terms of "extra attention"?
 
I'm pretty sure you just need an extra staff vote, or something like that. But since you're doing a complete overall of a major marvel character, you'll need that no matter what, so it's not really a problem here.
Sounds good. I'll get that cleaned up over the next couple days
 
What do we think about the Phoenix/First Firmament feat being included for base Thor as opposed to just All-Father Thor?
 
What do we think about the Phoenix/First Firmament feat being included for base Thor as opposed to just All-Father Thor?
Well, I think it was performed in all-father mode, but he should logically have access to it otherwise as well. 🙏
 
I think that your page draft currently seems good to apply, except for that there is a red link for "Energy Sensing" in a powers and abilities section. 🙏
 
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