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Seven Deadly Sins Calc Issues

M3X_2.0

M3X_2.0

VS Battles
Calculation Group
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Introduction

Some of the Seven Deadly Sins calculations have issues, and I want to tackle them. Here are the calcs.
Earthquake issues

This formula cannot be applied to air because it is specifically designed for earthquakes, which involve seismic waves traveling through the ground. Air does not transmit energy in the same way as rock or soil; instead, disturbances in the atmosphere propagate as sound waves or shockwaves, governed by pressure, density, and acoustic/blast physics. Therefore, using an earthquake magnitude formula for air would mix two different physical systems and produce an inaccurate energy estimate.

I also have issues with the Magnitude used, the magnitude used does not represent the destruction caused. Zeldris saying "it's like it could tear the Demon World apart" is something Zeldris himself feel it could happen, and the destruction we see is consistent with those of a magnitude 5 or even 4.

EDIT:

This calc also uses atmosphere for Earthquakes. It should be removed.

They should use this instead.

Behemoth GPE

I recalced this one with a proper method. Current method angsizes for no reason, I calced the size of the Albion, then the hair and then everything else. It should stay consistent in size since that's how the anime portrayed the scene, zooming out to show how small the Albion is.

This is consistent with later showings of Behemoth's hair on his back, we see characters near it and they fight on top of its back.

EDIT 2:

This calc also has to change due to the new size and mass. And also these timeframes makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Behemoth was never seen moving in one or ten seconds, the only times we see it moving was the first appearence and when he went to sleep, and those he moved offscreen. There is no reason to assume that a being with over 100km in length would easily move in 1 or 10 seconds. Just remove this calc, the GPE gives Low 6-B results already.

Results
 
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Also, this calc is in the verse page, but I don't see an approval. NikHelton commented on how it was wrong due to the density being extremely iffy. And I agree with him. Using the density he recommended (0.6), you get a mass of 3.0606e+19kg and the final result of 1.034276e+31 Joules, that's 2.4720 Zetattons, Low 5-B. Now, I don't see how that scales to Behemoth.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
I mean, yeah, I did use the panel where Albion does look like a flea though.
Click to expand...
Yeah whilst just using the size of its eye even though a full body shot was readily available to be of use. Is there any reason why it wasn’t used?
 
Majinere566 said:
Yeah whilst just using the size of its eye even though a full body shot was readily available to be of use. Is there any reason why it wasn’t used?
Click to expand...
Cause I had a better view of its eye in the first panel, and cause he is kinda lying down so height isn't accurate, could probably use his width but he's getting destroyed. I used the eye cause we see characters near it, then we see Albion near a hair and so on until you get the size.
 
We also see fissures forming on the ground whilst Zeldris was narrating a similar incident with the behemoth, shouldn’t that indicate a higher level of magnitude?
 
M3X_2.0 said:
Nope, it could just be his power affecting the ground and not an earthquake.
Click to expand...
I disagree, We’ve seen The Behemoth just waking up being able to shake the land and the atmosphere while his “Power” being the negative energy just produces the Miasma which we’ve seen not have any physical effects of that nature.

I believe my notion is supported by the fact that the lead up to that panel started off with Zeldris asking the main cast if they can feel the trembling
 
Majinere566 said:
I disagree, We’ve seen The Behemoth just waking up being able to shake the land and the atmosphere while his “Power” being the negative energy just produces the Miasma which we’ve seen not have any physical effects of that nature.

I believe my notion is supported by the fact that the lead up to that panel started off with Zeldris asking the main cast if they can feel the trembling
Click to expand...
Your notion is not supported, everything you have is a flashback of Zeldris telling what's probably gonna happen, and in the center you have a being releasing energy. It can be used for an earthquake.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
Your notion is not supported, everything you have is a flashback of Zeldris telling what's probably gonna happen, and in the center you have a being releasing energy. It can be used for an earthquake.
Click to expand...
I’ll assume the bolded part is a typo because that’s exactly what I’m arguing for.

We literally see The Behemoth’s awakening accompanied by Earthquakes so I wouldn’t quite get why those fissures on the ground would now be all of a sudden caused by his “Powers” even though all it does is toxic air that sucks the life force of the demons.


Also another thing I noticed, in your Earthquake section when you talk about how we cannot use the earthquake formula to calculate for the shaking of the atmosphere stuff, The Calc only uses the whole atmosphere thing as a justification for that magnitude in use, not as an actual calculation.
 
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Majinere566 said:
I’ll assume the bolded part is a typo because that’s exactly what I’m arguing for.
Click to expand...
Yep it is.
Majinere566 said:
We literally see The Behemoth’s awakening accompanied by Earthquakes so I wouldn’t quite get why those fissures on the ground would now be all of a sudden caused by his “Powers” even though all it does is toxic air that sucks the life force of the demons
Click to expand...
The same fissure should've been all around the world to be justified, they're only seen when he wakes up. In the same scan with Zeldris we see buildings getting slightly destroyed, and that's not enough.
Majinere566 said:
Also why is The Behemoth making smooth movements contradict the GPE when it’s a KE feat?
Click to expand...
Well, one is 1 Teraton, the other is 30 Petatons. It's a few order of magnitude in difference.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
The same fissure should've been all around the world to be justified, they're only seen when he wakes up. In the same scan with Zeldris we see buildings getting slightly destroyed, and that's not enough.

Well, one is 1 Teraton, the other is 30 Petatons. It's a few order of magnitude in difference.
Click to expand...
The Fissures support the tearing apart the Demon Realm statement though. Which are also supported by Zeldris stating the fate of the world rests on Percival. Infact the only reason why damages weren’t further shown was because Percival dealt with the situation putting it to rest.


I’m not as well versed in calcs than I used to be but hasn’t Kinetic Energy feats always been greater than Potential Energy feats? Since like KE is velocity squared and GPE only linearly scales with height. I’m not a calc guru or anything but that’s what I’ve always observed
 
Majinere566 said:
The Fissures support the tearing apart the Demon Realm statement though. Which are also supported by Zeldris stating the fate of the world rests on Percival. Infact the only reason why damages weren’t further shown was because Percival dealt with the situation putting it to rest.
Click to expand...
Nope, they don't support nothing, they're just small fissures at the origin of the energy release, they don't support the whole planet getting destroyed at all. That's a very high-ball interpretation of a very small panel from a flashback. One that we don't accept.
Majinere566 said:
I’m not as well versed in calcs than I used to be but hasn’t Kinetic Energy feats always been greater than Potential Energy feats?
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
Damn, the guy is putting his position at risk over a petty tantrum; I ended up getting deep into his mind.


M3X_2.0 said:
This formula cannot be applied to air because it is specifically designed for earthquakes, which involve seismic waves traveling through the ground. Air does not transmit energy in the same way as rock or soil; instead, disturbances in the atmosphere propagate as sound waves or shockwaves, governed by pressure, density, and acoustic/blast physics. Therefore, using an earthquake magnitude formula for air would mix two different physical systems and produce an inaccurate energy estimate.

I also have issues with the Magnitude used, the magnitude used does not represent the destruction caused. Zeldris saying "it's like it could tear the Demon World apart" is something Zeldris himself feel it could happen, and the destruction we see is consistent with those of a magnitude 5 or even 4.
Click to expand...
This is the most stupid thing I’ve ever seen; I’m surprised it’s coming from a staff member with the power to evaluate calculations.

The magnitudes 4 and 5 you proposed are refuted by the feats shown on screen, along with Zeldris’s statement. According to the table — which you should be familiar with — magnitude 5 only knocks down objects, which is far from destroying buildings (classified between 7 and 9). Adding Zeldris’s claim that the world would be split apart, we have stronger support for magnitude 9 than for 7 (magnitude 5 or 4 are out of the question). You should take your position more seriously instead of treating this as a joke.

The cracks on the ground completely refute the proposal you made. I think VS Battles should better check the people it is putting on the team, because some don’t seem qualified.
M3X_2.0 said:
This calc also uses atmosphere for Earthquakes. It should be removed.
Click to expand...
Neither this nor the other calculation uses the atmosphere; they literally use the same formula that is applied in the calculation you linked below, bro.
M3X_2.0 said:
And also these timeframes makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Behemoth was never seen moving in one or ten seconds, the only times we see it moving was the first appearence and when he went to sleep, and those he moved offscreen. There is no reason to assume that a being with over 100km in length would easily move in 1 or 10 seconds.
Click to expand...
I’ll just paste the arguments I included in the calculation, in case you haven’t seen them…
I will estimate the time to be 10 seconds because everything happens very quickly. In one panel, we see Percival calming the Behemoth; in the next one, there is a brief conversation between him and his clone. After that, in the next panel, we exit the Life Spirit world and see that the earthquake continues, implying that the Behemoth was still in its old position, screaming. However, in the same panel, we see the tremor has stopped, and its miasma has become less dense, indicating it was already asleep. To support this, Zeldris says that, when awake, the Behemoth devours all life and inhabitants of the demon world. For context, he was talking about the miasma. To me, anything above 10 seconds would be an extremely low estimate

Edit: I recently thought of this new possibility: After coming out, we still see Behemoth screaming. There is a possibility that Nakaba is showing us what happened before Percival calmed Behemoth, as it wouldn't make sense for him to keep screaming, especially for another 10 seconds after being calmed. The miasma clears, making it clear that Behemoth is asleep, and Percival wakes up shortly after. It is illogical to think that it took Percival more than 10 seconds to regain consciousness. To support this, we see characters like Zeldris taking only 0.8 seconds to regain consciousness after being seriously injured. We also see characters like Jericho waking up quickly after being knocked out by Diane. Percival is superior to Meliodas, who can do numerous things in a 0.7-second interval. So, I think the 10 seconds should be fine.
Click to expand...
 
Demon_Lord18 said:
The person goes against the basics out of sheer stubbornness; there’s no way this isn’t toxic.
Click to expand...
How is it being stubborn when it's just calling out the calculations being iffy?
Demon_Lord18 said:
Damn, the guy is putting his position at risk over a petty tantrum; I ended up getting deep into his mind.
Click to expand...

Demon_Lord18 said:
This is the most stupid thing I’ve ever seen; I’m surprised it’s coming from a staff member with the power to evaluate calculations.
Click to expand...

Demon_Lord18 said:
think VS Battles should better check the people it is putting on the team, because some don’t seem qualified.
Click to expand...
When you say stuff like this, that is toxic.
 
Bossbrosish said:
How is it being stubborn when it's just calling out the calculations being iffy?
Click to expand...
The arguments for using magnitude 4/5 go against the table that the person who made the calculation should know. So yes, they proposed that magnitude out of stubbornness, not because it was the correct one.
 
Demon_Lord18 said:
The arguments for using magnitude 4/5 go against the table that the person who made the calculation should know. So yes, they proposed that magnitude out of stubbornness, not because it was the correct one.
Click to expand...
If you disagree with someone's reasoning, just explain why they're wrong.

Calling someone stubborn is not effective way of communicating that. Especially when you haven't even discussed your points on the thread yet which just makes it uncalled for.
 
Demon_Lord18 said:
The magnitudes 4 and 5 you proposed are refuted by the feats shown on screen, along with Zeldris’s statement.
Click to expand...
No they are not, magnitude 5 can easily damage buildings and cause noticeable shaking, which is what happening there.
Demon_Lord18 said:
According to the table — which you should be familiar with — magnitude 5 only knocks down objects, which is far from destroying buildings (classified between 7 and 9).
Click to expand...
These are real images of what a magnitude 5 earthquake can do, it damages buildings, destroys a lot of pillars, walls and even toppled buildings.
Demon_Lord18 said:
Adding Zeldris’s claim that the world would be split apart
Click to expand...
Which is completely baseless since his claim is not about the initial earthquake (that ceased) but because Behemoth would’ve caused that, if not put to sleep.
Demon_Lord18 said:
we have stronger support for magnitude 9 than for 7
Click to expand...
You think that the Demon Realm getting axed is because of his earthquake. It is not. It’s because of Behemoth itself, he would’ve destroyed it if he kept awake.

Everything his earthquake does is slightly violent shaking and some damage to buildings, magnitude 5 or 6 covers that easily. Magnitude 9 violently deforms and dislocate the terrain, that never happened in SDS.
Demon_Lord18 said:
magnitude 5 or 4 are out of the question
Click to expand...
They are gonna be used.
Demon_Lord18 said:
The cracks on the ground completely refute the proposal you made.
Click to expand...
They don’t, actually, that’s not even happening, it’s what Zeldris thinks it’s gonna happen from Behemoth waking up, not his earthquakes, it’s a consequence of Behemoth not sleeping.
 
Demon_Lord18 said:
Damn, the guy is putting his position at risk over a petty tantrum; I ended up getting deep into his mind
Click to expand...
Demon_Lord18 said:
This is the most stupid thing I’ve ever seen; I’m surprised it’s coming from a staff member with the power to evaluate calculations.
Click to expand...
Demon_Lord18 said:
The cracks on the ground completely refute the proposal you made. I think VS Battles should better check the people it is putting on the team, because some don’t seem qualified.
Click to expand...
Demon_Lord18 said:
thought he couldn’t possibly outdo himself… damn baiano “reactive devolution,
Click to expand...
I won't dogpile you, but it is something important to talk about. While I can understand being angry at another user, this is not a productive way to argue. It makes the opposition inherently hostile and it muddles the discussion. You can debate with M3X without calling their character into question.

If you do truly feel like they're position isn't warranted, this is not the place to express it, but in a RVR or HR report. Please remain focused on M3X's arguments and not the person themselves. If you're not capable of separating those two things, you're going to be removed from the thread.
 
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M3X_2.0 said:
This formula cannot be applied to air because it is specifically designed for earthquakes, which involve seismic waves traveling through the ground.
Click to expand...
I think this is misunderstanding the quote in relation to the calc:

Calc 1
Earthquake Formula: (Magnitude at distance) + 6.399 + 1.66×log((radius/110)×((2×π)/360))

(9) + 6.399 + 1.66×log((20037.5/110)×((2×π)/360)) = 16.2328648415
Click to expand...

Calc 2
Using the earthquake formula (Magnitude at distance) + 6.399 + 1.66×log((radius/110)×((2×π)/360))

(6.9) + 6.399 + 1.66×log((20037.5/110)×((2×π)/360)) = 14.1328648415
Click to expand...
DMUA's Calc
(Magnitude at distance) + 6.399 + 1.66×log((distance from epicenter in KM/110)×((2×π)/360)) = Richter Magnitude of Earthquake

In our case, it would be, using half of the Circumference of earth,

(4)+6.399+1.66×log((20037.5÷110)×((2×π)÷360)) = Magnitude 11.2328648415393
Click to expand...
This all comes from this paper on meteor impact power (page 4 section 2.3.2). Now I will say, this Calc is fudmentally about a single impact generating these waves. If this is a constant shaking, then even a low Magnitude Earthquake can cause significant damage as the length will start to rip apart even earthqake resistant materials.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I think this is misunderstanding the quote in relation to the calc:

Calc 1


Calc 2

DMUA's Calc

This all comes from this paper on meteor impact power. Now I will say, this Calc is fudmentally about a single impact generating these waves. If this is a constant shaking, then even a low Magnitude Earthquake can cause significant damage as the length will start to rip apart even earthqake resistant materials.
Click to expand...
Yeah, at least he is right about this one thing, but it is a constant shaking, they are not happening in one blow or anything like that. They’re also not threatening to destroy the whole world like a planet busting feat or anything like that.

Also why would you say that it shook the atmosphere in the blog
 
M3X_2.0 said:
Also why would you say that it shook the atmosphere in the blog
Click to expand...
Can't speak for SDS, but my reading is that the quote is just establishing it has planetary range:
魔界全土と大気が 震えているのが・・・
The whole demon world’s land and atmosphere are trembling/shaking…
Click to expand...
So it's being used to say the correct translation isn't land but world, it just happens to mention the atmosphere.

Now in-context, since its just a demon screaming loudly, the vibrations would carry over to both the land and atmosphere. It's basically just a giant explosion at that level of decibels afaik.
 
I want to ask what calc the high tiers will scale too? I'm assuming the Behemoth GPE like it was previously?
 
Can we at least get more calc group members to look at this before we come to a conclusion? Also, shouldn't the weight of Behemoth factor in with the destruction it can cause? Threatening an entire planet shouldn't be below multi-continental.
 
speedster352 said:
Can we at least get more calc group members to look at this before we come to a conclusion? Also, shouldn't the weight of Behemoth factor in with the destruction it can cause? Threatening an entire planet shouldn't be below multi-continental.
Click to expand...
We’re not reaching a conclusion anytime soon because I told Majinere he can obviously make a reply tomorrow
 
M3X_2.0 said:
These are real images of what a magnitude 5 earthquake can do, it damages buildings, destroys a lot of pillars, walls and even toppled buildings.
Click to expand...
Material Deficiency: Core samples taken from damaged structures examined in the region revealed that the concrete compressive strengths were far below the required values (around 7 MPa).
Construction Period: The majority of the damaged and destroyed houses were buildings constructed in violation of standards and regulations between the 1970 Gediz earthquake and the late 1990s.
So this is definitely not the earthquake's fault, it's just cheap labor.
A similar earthquake occurred in Gökçeada, measuring 6.5 on the Richter scale, and only structures that were 100 or 200 years old were destroyed.
If we talk about the rifts, considering the size of the Behemoth, it wouldn't be wrong to say that these rifts are enormously deep and about a quarter or a fifth the length of the planet.
The Kahramanmaraş earthquake of 2023 (a truly devastating event, once again, my condolences) was 7.7 magnitude, and the cracks it caused were this extensive. If we compare the size of the behemoth to the cracks, even assuming the earthquake was 7-8 magnitude is extremely lowballed.

Also, don't overlook the fact that he does all this simply by roaring
 
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