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'Infinite' Stamina Conditions
- Thread starter Jinx666
- Start date
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Firstly, quoting our standards
Robots need fuel. Zombies can also get tired in various fictional media, so on and so forth. Giving them infinite stamina purely based on that is exaggerating it.
However, I don't agree with the idea of it requiring self repair or regeneration by default. To begin with, infinite stamina just means having inexhaustible physical or magical energy. As the current rating says, infinite stamina does not account for injuries or searing pain a character experiences.
For example, if there's a robot that can work perpetually without ever needing energy in a setting, will get infinite stamina, even though the metal it's made up of can wear and tear overtime.
So just adding an additional note to the page below the infinite stamina rating would be sufficient
Personally, I don't think robots or those that don't have conventional human biology can qualify for infinite stamina by default.
Robots need fuel. Zombies can also get tired in various fictional media, so on and so forth. Giving them infinite stamina purely based on that is exaggerating it.
However, I don't agree with the idea of it requiring self repair or regeneration by default. To begin with, infinite stamina just means having inexhaustible physical or magical energy. As the current rating says, infinite stamina does not account for injuries or searing pain a character experiences.
For example, if there's a robot that can work perpetually without ever needing energy in a setting, will get infinite stamina, even though the metal it's made up of can wear and tear overtime.
So just adding an additional note to the page below the infinite stamina rating would be sufficient
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- Thread starter
- #43
I guess it fits that definition of Infinite Stamina, though I feel on its own it kinda loops back to there not being infinite stamina if they genuinely have a limit to how much they can continue the fight.
For their own body to have that level of stamina, they should naturally just have their own way of sustaining themselves otherwise it kinda proves its possibly to just wittle someone down/get weaker overtime, which isnt necessarily a trait of Infinite Stamina. But thats the wiki definition of it and this CRT doesnt seek to change that, only enforce the standard and remove all weak reasonings of 'Infinite' and 'Limitless'.
I dont know if there are any other terms to differentiate, cause in debates of longevity then Stamina does play a big factor.
For their own body to have that level of stamina, they should naturally just have their own way of sustaining themselves otherwise it kinda proves its possibly to just wittle someone down/get weaker overtime, which isnt necessarily a trait of Infinite Stamina. But thats the wiki definition of it and this CRT doesnt seek to change that, only enforce the standard and remove all weak reasonings of 'Infinite' and 'Limitless'.
I dont know if there are any other terms to differentiate, cause in debates of longevity then Stamina does play a big factor.
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Yeah, basically there is a difference between stamina and endurance.
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@Planck69 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @SomebodyData Your input here would also be appreciated.
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I’m mostly in agreement with Raiki. This seems like an issue that comes from not examining the reasoning closely enough, with certain types of characters being automatically granted it without sufficient evidence.
Though it is important to separate stamina from things such as magical energy if the verse never treats them as the same thing. There are plenty of cases where mages are powerful with magic but physically weak, and likewise, plenty of cases where they run out of physical stamina while still having plenty of mana.
Just having infinite mana wouldn’t mean having infinite stamina unless the two are linked or correlated in-verse, since even with infinite mana, you could still pass out from exhaustion.
Though it is important to separate stamina from things such as magical energy if the verse never treats them as the same thing. There are plenty of cases where mages are powerful with magic but physically weak, and likewise, plenty of cases where they run out of physical stamina while still having plenty of mana.
Just having infinite mana wouldn’t mean having infinite stamina unless the two are linked or correlated in-verse, since even with infinite mana, you could still pass out from exhaustion.
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- Thread starter
- #47
Well there seems to be unanimous agreement from mods overall that Infinite Stamina should always be justified properly, and not just given for being robots, or undead just because of what they are (unless theres supporting referenced evidence)
I agree Stamina should be separated when applicable in regards to either physical or magical energies
What else needs to be done? And are all the outcomes in OP agreeable?
I agree Stamina should be separated when applicable in regards to either physical or magical energies
What else needs to be done? And are all the outcomes in OP agreeable?
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Actually, in some situation i saw people putting endurance feat in stamina section. Remember we have High Pain Tolerance as an ability in P&A section before? It got removed and is now feat like that is under stamina section
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I know, endurance is like a rough in between hybrid between stamina and durability, and roughly an equivalent of the hit points statistics taking game mechanics literally; with durability being a defense stat that reduces damage per hit. Stamina is more flexible on what things one can do without tiring, in which endurance feats can still be mentioned in the stamina section. Much like how Wisdom and Charisma feats can be mentioned in intelligence section but we do not give intelligence ratings for them.
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Ngl, thinking about my own post and your post, i feel like we can do the infinite stamina similar to intelligence, with listing multiple aspects of stamina. We are currently already in some profile listing general intelligence feat separate with combat intelligence, we can just do similar thing to stamina
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- Thread starter
- #52
Stamina is already considered in multiple aspects right? at least with the developed quality (and applicable) profiles.
I will say that i think having a High Pain Tolerance and Supernatural Willpower, while similar are different enough to warrant separate explanations
All I want is stuff like 'Stamina: Infinite' for little to no reason to be gone
I will say that i think having a High Pain Tolerance and Supernatural Willpower, while similar are different enough to warrant separate explanations
All I want is stuff like 'Stamina: Infinite' for little to no reason to be gone
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- Thread starter
- #56
Bump
More pages still being given Infinite Stamina just because characters don't 'seem to get tired' (and we need to make an entire CRT just to change that)
More pages still being given Infinite Stamina just because characters don't 'seem to get tired' (and we need to make an entire CRT just to change that)
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So, given this and that our staff members here seem to agree with your arguments, what should we do here exactly?I agree with this, but from what I recall, I think that our rules already state that robots, androids, and undead should not automatically gain infinite stamina, and that our members just keep ignoring that rule, but if I am mistaken, it should be mentioned in our Stamina page.
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We clearly need a specific showing to tell us they have infinite stamina. Many zombies for example can walk pretty much indefinitely though, or at least are implied to be able to. So I can understand where the idea that zombies would have infinite stamina comes from.
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- Thread starter
- #59
I mean Zombies are still just rotting undead corpses that desperately seek to eat flesh in order to consume (in most cases). Unless its some empty hunger thing that has no bearing on their stamina, you pretty much only consume things in order to gain energy. Its more that they can completely ignore the pain of their own exhaustion (since their bodies are clearly undead), but i dont reckon its fair to assume they naturally live on indefinitely even if they dont get any sustenance.
I'd say it depends on their physiology but even then that'd require an explanation of why they'd be given Infinite Stamina as opposed to something beyond Superhuman, or even a unique tier to explain as such.
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No, and half the time it's barely defined. Usually we don't have enough information one way or the other. In those cases we're better off going by what we know.
I was thinking of things like the Resident Evil movie adaptations where they specifically say that the zombies don't actually need to eat but do so anyway.
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- Thread starter
- #61
In that case its better to explain in a case-by-case basis, but otherwise saying they have Infinite Stamina is the much stronger highball compared to just saying its either Unknown or Superhuman.
Thats only one interpretation of Zombies, and hardly the representative of them all. Zombies from franchises like The Last of Us can starve for example, or just simply degrade until they no longer can reform
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That's what I said. We go with what we know, namely what they show.
The trick is most of them show nothing of the sort either way. On this issue we sometimes see them show the ability to last almost indefinitely (RE films), or explicitly show otherwise (28 Days Later), but in most cases they show neither. So yeah, we have to judge them based on what they show.
I do note that 28 Days Later and Last of Us are both examples where the beings aren't undead, though. All the same, most zombies probably fit Superhuman stamina, with insufficient information to give them infinite stamina.
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Yeah, that line does seem to already cover this.My point above was that I think that our Stamina rules already state something about-face this, unless I am mistaken. What more should be done exactly?
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- Thread starter
- #65
Ig literally justt enforce this rule higher, require a referenced and plentiful explanation (thats allowed to be contested if someone deems necessary)
And for efficiency-sake, this threads conclusion should allow for the automatic changing of Infinite Stamina ratings (without individual CRTs) to unknown if:
-No explanation given in the first place for Infinite Stamina
-The reasoning is merely 'Cause they are a robot/zombie' without reference, or something silly like 'has not shown to tire'
(This thread can be linked to any edits related to it)
And for efficiency-sake, this threads conclusion should allow for the automatic changing of Infinite Stamina ratings (without individual CRTs) to unknown if:
-No explanation given in the first place for Infinite Stamina
-The reasoning is merely 'Cause they are a robot/zombie' without reference, or something silly like 'has not shown to tire'
(This thread can be linked to any edits related to it)
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I am not sure how we can do so in practice.
That seems reasonable to me, but other staff members might disagree.
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- Thread starter
- #67
Simply allow it to be reportable and changeable in article clean-ups or something, or ask any page owners of recently made profiles to provide a sufficient explanation or change it to something more appropriate
I mean it's exactly what this thread has been aiming to do from the very start, is the most efficient answer in practise, and I made a CRT for it so im not sure why else it would need to be disagreed withThat seems reasonable to me, but other staff members might disagree.
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If you write this down, it would speed things up a lot.Which staff members have commented here previously, so I can ping and ask them about the issue?
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I'm not sure about just removing the entire rating, mostly for inactive verses that'd then be left unknown.
I'll be neutral on it for now.
I'll be neutral on it for now.
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- Thread starter
- #73
Im not...trying to remove the entire rating. Im just saying to increase and maintain the standards for it, as infinite stamina in itself is a major advantage
Fixing Inaccuracy should take precedence. Inactive verses on this wiki, that just give their profiles Infinite stamina for weak/no reason should preferably be unknown.
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- Thread starter
- #74
Idk all the mods by memory but you, Tllmbrg, Qaswed, Donttalk, DarkDragon, DarkCarioca, ActuallySpaceMan, Vietthai, and RandomHelperIf you write this down, it would speed things up a lot.
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As in removing the entire stamina stat for a character. A lot of older profiles would suddenly have no stamina stat and that might remain that way indefinitely. It does have some issues.
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