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Questions regarding mind manipulation against Spirits/Ghosts/Robots
- Thread starter Sdjlakjh
- Start date
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Robots, yeah. Ghosts still have mind, since "spiritual", "mind", "soul", etc, are the same.
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- Thread starter
- #3
If so, then why Bleach characters have resistance to mind manipulation? As they are ghosts in a sense
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Robots it's obvious they have no mind, spirits and ghosts it depends, there are some verses where mind and soul are related which means they can still be mind manipulated while others not having a physical brain means they would be immune. You would have to check both the attack itself and the "ghost/spirit" character.
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- Thread starter
- #5
But would ghosts/spirits be immune to mind manipulation by default? Unless the enemy has an enhanced mind manipulation that can work on em
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This wiki normally doesn't like assumptions so maybe not, but my opinion is that by default they should have it
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- Thread starter
- #7
Well bleach characters have resistance to mind manipulation because of being a ghost. Since the mods approve it, I believe it is the case
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Because they show resistance to it. Not completely if we going into Aizen’s abilities.
Nah, that is a single verse out of the many.
Not all verses are gonna follow this. Also spirits technically still has a mind and soul. Body is obviously still spiritual though
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I disagree with this assumption as they ain’t actually immune at all. They may have spiritual body, but that assumption is flawed as it will suggest they have no mind which is quite fundamentally flawed especially when their existence is absolutely debated in irl anyway
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- Thread starter
- #10
If you check the explaination, all characters in bleach has resistance to mind manipulation because of being a ghost/spirit, not because they show resistance to it https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Soul_Physiology_(Bleach)
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??? That show resistance though via feats though
Also kinda odd you single out bleach though since it is one case out of the many verse so it isn’t foolproof here especially since it says “soul”, not ghost
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- Thread starter
- #12
No? It's explained without any usage of feats
I'm using bleach as it's a proof that mods approve of spirits/ghosts having resistance to mind manipulation. Soul as in a bleach word, but it's classification would be the same as a spirit/ghost
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It literally has a scan being used though so not sure why you say “no feats”.
Also, not this again. We literally don’t apply this to every verse especially if we want to go into verses like Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure where we have stands (spiritual lifeforms) that is part of the User and they definitely ain’t immune to mind hax and so on.
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Although, this does warrant looking into now I think about it for that matter
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- Thread starter
- #15
What is your definition of feats? Pretty sure it's when a character doing something while in the scan I show, it's just full of texts. Literally look at the explaination itself. It says that mind manipulation wont work because their mind are one with the spirit
That's false equalvalence, as Bleach never explained an external/uncommon explaination why basic mind hax wont work + because stands are not ghosts? If you harm them, the effects goes to the human user
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Also that feats can been in text as well like in case of books and novels tbf.
It just says “Mind tied to the soul should apparently provide unconventional resistance to mind hax” and all.
Which, now I think about it, you are right about no statements/feats in that regard.
Could been ignored given the other situation with Orihime during Fullbringer Arc and all that.
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- #17
So if mind are tied to the soul, they are automatically immune to basic mind manipulation? Pretty sure ghosts and spirits are qualified for the same reason by default
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Not immune. They are, at best, resistant as they need to show actual proof for that matter. The blog wasn’t even sure on that so probably should been left for a CRT.
Stop using immunity here as they are resistant at best, not immune.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Resistance
Stands are still spiritual beings though as normally they ain’t interact with and as shown in Part 4, they can see ghosts.
I using a different example from the one you using to provide a point that not all verses does this.
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- #19
Their wording isn't different from mine. Keyword: basic mind manipulation. Well it was accepted despite the explaination being so simple so logically, it is a common approved fact unless another user decide to goes against it and managed to remove it from the abilities part
Yes but that doesn't debunk that whatever effect given to stands, reflected to the human user
Not all verses does this because either they have a contradicting narrative like a robots are automatically assumed to be vulnerable to water but in some verses, that narrative gets contradicted because that specific robot has waterproof systems
Or, the people scaling the verse never consider such possibility. The main reason I'm using Bleach solely because their explaination is too simple that can be applied to almost any verse by default
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We don’t tend to combine mind, soul, and body into one as it has been debated on a lot.
In fact, the verse does have to show this is the case, not the other way around, as I find it questionable to do that
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- #21
So are you planning to debunk against the explaination posed by the bleach scalers and mods?
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If the mind manipulation requires the target to have a brain then it wouldn't work on spirits/ghosts because they obviously lack a biological brain. However if it works on the consciousness then it works on them unless proven otherwise with some explanation as ghosts/spirits are assumed to have a consciousness.
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Thanks for further clarification there.
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- #24
So by default, mind manipulation wont work on ghosts/spirits unless that specific character has shown to do so, alright
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it is not by default. It is moreso whatever or not the mind manipulation has a limitation as you have shown what kind of restrictions any haxes have in-verse and all.
Again, not all mind manipulations have that kind of restriction
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- #26
Well said by him, mind manipulators target the brain by default. Would only work on spirits/ghosts or consious itself if said character show such feat
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He say “If” meaning it is not always to begin with
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- #28
Already then, but still implyable due to their treatment for bleach characters
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The Bleach example again. My man, it does varied verse by verse as not every verse is gonna follow the Bleach example and even then, I find myself questioning this given the example is lacking
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- #30
Yes but Bleach proposes it by default, basic mind hax wont effect on spirits. Since it was accepted, I was questioning if that's gonna be a common fact for the current and future scalings
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Also tbf, even the souls technically have physical parts as Shinigami, Quincy, and even Hollows still have blood.
Hell, for Shinigami, they technically have organs in a physical sense as they have a brain and all that.
For the hollows, with the exception of holes, have limbs and so on.
Bleach is more of an oddball case.
Ichigo got a hole in his chest and was only able to revive due to his Hollow Powers.
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- #32
Those reasons listed like having actual body parts is why I'm making this question
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Yeah, the explanation for mind resistance due to that is not workable in this case imo as far as I am aware, mind hax is still workable on people and I brought up Aizen with his Zanpakuto although his is more on illusions and manipulation of all five senses.
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It depends on the mechanics of the mind manipulation. If it works by manipulating the brain then things without it would be immune. If it works by controlling a conscious then a spirit or intangible being could be affected, while a robot wouldn't since it's just executing a set of orders.
For Bleach in particular their resistance comes from their UES that ties minds and souls together. But it wouldn't give an inherent resistance to other forms of mind control unless you can prove it works the same as the Bleach ones.
Which is why it's listed as "Unconventional".
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