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This thread is a remake of this one, I want to present the arguments and counterarguments in a clear, organized manner for the staff to review while avoiding too much Naruto jargon, since many staff are unfamiliar with the verse.
I propose granting a varies rating, with Amaterasu going from sub 2,000 c on certain occasions, and up to 1.5 million c when affecting the Bijuu.
Firstly, I believe the burden of proof lies with them, as their argument implies that all stages of Susanoo share comparable thermal resistance values. Secondly, Mei's Lava Release was actually acidic in nature. There is no indication that Madara's Ribcage Susanoo was damaged by heat alone. The technique is explicitly described as a strongly acidic fluid that corrodes and dissolves its targets.
The argument goes as follows: "Kaguya's lava dimension was a threat to Sasuke, therefore his heat resistance must be below that of natural lava."
What's wrong with this argument is that the only way for it to work is by not reading the scan. What happens is that Kaguya destroys Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo, which causes him to fall toward the lava below. Naruto is worried for him because Sasuke no longer has any way to defend himself from the lava, as Kaguya had just obliterated his Susanoo. The rebuttal to this is similar to the one above regarding Mei. Sasuke was not in Perfect Susanoo when the lava threatened him. It was his bare body being sent toward the lava, which I never claimed has comparable resistance to his Perfect Susanoo.
Agree: Nierre, Kaydee
Heat Scaling
Can produce:
Every single Bijuu can produce a BB, this should grant the following characters its heat output:- All Bijuu's :
Shukaku, Matatabi, Isobu, Son Gokū, Kokuō, Saiken, Chōmei, Gyūki, and Kurama. (Kurama and the Juubi + their Jins will have both output and resistance, seeing as how they can both swallow BB's.- Note : Rōshi and Son Gokū should would upscale from this as their Lava Release can burn KCM Naruto.
Can only resist:
Now for character's who would be granted resistance to this level of heat:- All Perfect Susanoo users that scale/upscale from Madara, who can withstand Kurama's BB point blank:
- All Ōtsutsuki that scale/upscale from Kaguya, who took 9 Bijuu Dama Rasenshuriken's, all imbued with different chakra from TB's, one of them being Son Gokū's:
- Hashirama (Can palm a BB then no sell it's explosion point blank, later on can overwhelm Madara's Susanoo Swords Imbued with BB using Shinsu Senju.)
- A3 (Had an extended fight with Gyuki who praised his resilience and durability, and was incapable of damaging him in their fight)
- Potentially A4, due to having the same blood as A3, which allowed him to come out of Mabui's Ethereal Transmission Jutsu relatively unharmed
Amaterasu:
We have multiple statements suggesting that Amaterasu is the pinnacle of fire based attacks within Naruto, with Zetsu even going as far as to say that it is the most powerful physical attack at the time. One of the statements says that its temperature is like that of the sun. This was brought up before, with the argument being that it would make Amaterasu 5,000°C.Sun Statement:
Amaterasu has a statement comparing it's heat to that of the sun. My response to this is similar to what David and Kachon said: a middle ground can be reached here, considering the temperature of the sun varies greatly. Its surface is around 5,000 c, its corona is up to 3 million c, and its core is around 15 million c. Even if Amaterasu is accepted as the pinnacle of Fire Release, this would not place an upper limit on the temperature of the BB's. BB's are not Fire Release, they are a completely different chakra phenomenon created by compressing positive black chakra and negative white chakra together.I propose granting a varies rating, with Amaterasu going from sub 2,000 c on certain occasions, and up to 1.5 million c when affecting the Bijuu.
Mei's Lava
One of the main contentions brought up earlier, which also happened to be a point that I wasn't even pushing, was that Mei's Lava Release was capable of affecting Madara's Ribcage Susanoo, which is inferior to his Perfect Susanoo, meaning that there's some level of inconsistency here. Responding to this is relatively simple, as I never argued that Ribcage Susanoo possesses that level of heat resistance. My point has always been that Perfect Susanoo does. The opposition's response was that I would have to prove that Madara's Ribcage Susanoo has a thermal resistance thousands of times lower.Firstly, I believe the burden of proof lies with them, as their argument implies that all stages of Susanoo share comparable thermal resistance values. Secondly, Mei's Lava Release was actually acidic in nature. There is no indication that Madara's Ribcage Susanoo was damaged by heat alone. The technique is explicitly described as a strongly acidic fluid that corrodes and dissolves its targets.
Lava Dimension
Of all the arguments made in the thread, this was by far the weakest one, and when rebutted, the opposition conceded pretty quickly.The argument goes as follows: "Kaguya's lava dimension was a threat to Sasuke, therefore his heat resistance must be below that of natural lava."
What's wrong with this argument is that the only way for it to work is by not reading the scan. What happens is that Kaguya destroys Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo, which causes him to fall toward the lava below. Naruto is worried for him because Sasuke no longer has any way to defend himself from the lava, as Kaguya had just obliterated his Susanoo. The rebuttal to this is similar to the one above regarding Mei. Sasuke was not in Perfect Susanoo when the lava threatened him. It was his bare body being sent toward the lava, which I never claimed has comparable resistance to his Perfect Susanoo.
Summary
- Accepted calc that figures out the BB's heat.
- All Bijuu and their Jinchuriki would receive the temperature as heat output, while resistance would only be granted to characters with direct/clear on screen scaling.
- Perfect Susanoo users who scale to Madara, Ōtsutsuki who scale to Kaguya, Hashirama, A3, and potentially A4 would receive resistance.
- Amaterasu does not place an upper limit on the BB's temperatures because it is the pinnacle of Fire Release, while BB's are a separate chakra phenomenon. Amaterasu can either be removed from the discussion or given a varies rating for the sun statement.
- Mei's Lava Release does not contradict the scaling because it damaged a weaker Ribcage Susanoo and is explicitly acidic.
- Kaguya's lava dimension does not contradict the scaling because Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo had already been destroyed before he was threatened by the lava.
Agree: Nierre, Kaydee
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