We Should Define Insanity

[Random-Helper323]

Maybe, but the latter still seems extremely unhinged and depraved to me.

Absolutely so, yes. Exactly my point. An evil depraved individual like that is not necessarily insane, and an insane person isn't necessarily evil. They're two different things.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that is definitely true.

 

[FinePoint]

Perhaps if it's specified "severe mental disorders that prevent the individual from understanding their own actions or otherwise functioning mentally"?

Well we've already agreed to not just use the legal definition, but it is already included in the other criteria.

I do get your point, though.

What if we just tacked on "that inhibits logical cognition"?

That should cover the moral portion, since eating someone's hands because they taste good is evil but not illogical, while eating your own hands because you don't think they're real is not evil but it is illogical.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Well we've already agreed to not just use the legal definition, but it is already included in the other criteria.

Yes, it's just that I thought severe mental disorder was too vague.

I do get your point, though.

What if we just tacked on "that inhibits logical cognition"?

Maybe specify that it inhibits it to the point that it prevents or severely hinders basic function?

That should cover the moral portion, since eating someone's hands because they taste good is evil but not illogical, while eating your own hands because you don't think they're real is not evil but it is illogical.

That was essentially my point. The guy who destroyed himself due to cognitive failure is insane but not evil; a victim of his own insanity. The guy who harms others because he likes it and behaves like a sadistic animal on the other hand, he's not insane, just evil, and notably he is fully functional, unlike the other guy.

 

[Antvasima]

So what wording do you suggest, FinePoint?

 

[FinePoint]

So what wording do you suggest, FinePoint?

I think we can have it like this:

Insanity is defined as some altered mental state qualifying as at least one of the following: unable to comprehend one's own actions or their consequences, unable to tell what is real or not, unable to think clearly, unable to control one's own impulses, or otherwise suffering from some mental disorder that severely inhibits logical cognition or behavioral control.

Note that simply being extremely unreasonable is not enough to qualify as insane. For example, many villains may have plans to destroy the world, and though this may stem from an immense ego and recklessness, it does not necessarily stem from insanity as we define it. Likewise, a statement that someone is insane on its own is insufficient, and the actual context must be considered.

Change:

or otherwise suffering from some mental disorder that severely inhibits logical cognition or behavioral control.

That it inhibits logical cognition covers cases where the disorder doesn't lead to insanity.
Moving the severe from the disorder itself to that qualifier makes it clear the consequences are our focus, and not just any disorder which is severe and happens to affect cognition even slightly.

I added a note 'or behavioral control' to cover cases where the person knows they're being illogical but can't help themselves anyway, like for example extreme mood disorders or other psychological disconnects.
That this is a qualifier to a mental disorder should disqualify cases where they're being literally controlled by like, magic, or something.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I changed "unable" to "inability" earlier, but except for that I think that your new wording seems perfectly fine.

 

[FinePoint]

Well, I changed "unable" to "inability" earlier, but except for that I think that your new wording seems perfectly fine.

That's fine by me, and may be more grammatically correct, I'm not sure.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems more grammatically correct to me at least.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I think we can have it like this:

Change:

That it inhibits logical cognition covers cases where the disorder doesn't lead to insanity.
Moving the severe from the disorder itself to that qualifier makes it clear the consequences are our focus, and not just any disorder which is severe and happens to affect cognition even slightly.

I added a note 'or behavioral control' to cover cases where the person knows they're being illogical but can't help themselves anyway, like for example extreme mood disorders or other psychological disconnects.
That this is a qualifier to a mental disorder should disqualify cases where they're being literally controlled by like, magic, or something.

That's fair. The point of madness manipulation generally is that it essentially destroys the mind and takes away the ability to function mentally.