Minor Naruto Revisions | Part 1

[Arkenis]

Why wouldn't it be a good example, the phys of of Kn6 and Kn4 stays the same, only difference is that Kn6 has a higher release.

Exactly so then kn4 isn't a good example, his temp could be different because of density and amount.

We have over a dozen showings of Bijuu Bombs, all vaporizing anything they come into contact with, then we have amaterasu, that doesn't vaporize or melt anything worth noting. If Amaterasu was actually 5,000c or comparable to the surface of the sun, we wouldn't be seeing this:

That's fine that bb shows consistency but if amaterasu is meant to be the highest form of fire style and an impressive jutsu, then that's what we go with. The framing simply deviates from the storytelling and that makes it loose rather than concrete for scaling. Bb are also examples of pure destruction, trying to apply heat scaling can end up with an inconsistency.

 

[Soulking22334]

Please cite the contradiction. If Mei's lava release isn't shown to produce that much heat, we can remove it.

as you said "
ow for character's who would be granted resistance to this level of heat:
All Susanoo users that scale/upscale from Edo Madara"

his susanoo should be fine inside a full on volcano if your scaling is logical and legit

 

[Foriaa]

Exactly so then kn4 isn't a good example, his temp could be different because of density and amount.

His temp would be higher if anything, increasing his resistance.

That's fine that bb shows consistency but if amaterasu is meant to be the highest form of fire style and an impressive jutsu, then that's what we go with. The framing simply deviates from the storytelling and that makes it loose rather than concrete for scaling. Bb are also examples of pure destruction, trying to apply heat scaling can end up with an inconsistency.

Amaterasu is definitely meant to be the highest form of fire release, the good thing here is that the BB's aren't fire release, but chakra mixed in a certain ratio to discharge. BB's are pure destruction, that's absolutely true, every time we see a BB go off, it sublimates anything it comes into contact with into gas.

his susanoo should be fine inside a full on volcano if your scaling is logical and legit

I'm not arguing that these characters can sit within that temperature for an extended period of time, I don't think anyone can when it comes to heat resistance as duration is very important, which was addressed above.

 

[Arkenis]

His temp would be higher if anything, increasing his resistance.

Why would the weaker tails be higher than the stronger tails?

Amaterasu is definitely meant to be the highest form of fire release, the good thing here is that the BB's aren't fire release, but chakra mixed in a certain ratio to discharge. BB's are pure destruction, that's absolutely true, every time we see a BB go off, it sublimates anything it comes into contact with into gas.

So if Amaterasu is narratively the big bad heat based attack, you don't see how arguing bb to be above it leads to a contradiction?

 

[ichimojii]

Uh, why does this matter btw? I'm not saying the Bijuu Bomb is that high because it simply vaporizes rocks, please read the calc.

Would there be an issue with it?

Yea your assuming it's mostly thermal energy. We don't know how much Kenetic,thermal or shockwave energy it uses. Since it's made of chakra we don't know how the energy is distributed

 

[Foriaa]

Why would the weaker tails be higher than the stronger tails?

I'm saying Kn6's resistance should be higher, not the other way around.

So if Amaterasu is narratively the big bad heat based attack, you don't see how arguing bb to be above it leads to a contradiction?

The big bad heat attack that does what exactly? Every single time Ama has been showcased, it has repeatedly contradicted the 5,000 c value people agree with, how do we find the BB's releasing more heat, vaporizing anything it touches more inconsistent than something that can't melt rocks or worse, a leaf.

Yea your assuming it's mostly thermal energy. We don't know how much Kenetic,thermal or shockwave energy it uses. Since it's made of chakra we don't know how the energy is distributed

I'm trying to be respectful here, but it seems like you and others aren't even taking the time to read my calc, you said that I'm assuming it's mostly thermal energy, this is a lie, in fact, I verbatim say that I'm only using 0.35 of the total energy as thermal energy.

Please, just read the calc.

 

[Kachon123]

Changed, do you mind evaluating it.

You made a mistake in the calc. You forgot to cube the fireball radius, which inflated the final result by nearly 20x. It should be 1561959.636 Kelvin not 28359024.32 Kelvin.

 

[Foriaa]

Oops, fixed it. Similar results to the old one I had.

 

[Soulking22334]

I'm not arguing that these characters can sit within that temperature for an extended period of time, I don't think anyone can when it comes to heat resistance as duration is very important, which was addressed above

Anything capable of withstanding millions of degrees Celsius , even for a fraction of a second and remaining intact won't melt in a sea of lava.



Honestly, your logic is sooo ridiculous.

 

[KaramcaS]

Has the Calc been approved by any Calc member? I can't see the comments

 

[Soulking22334]

Has the Calc been approved by any Calc member? I can't see the comments

Over my dead body

 

[Foriaa]

Anything capable of withstanding millions of degrees Celsius , even for a fraction of a second and remaining intact won't melt in a sea of lava.
Honestly, your logic is sooo ridiculous.

I don't really care about Mei slightly melting Madara's Ribcage Susanoo, the feat of him no selling Kurama's TBB is when he's in PS.

Over my dead body

Haha, the latest bleach nerfs must've hurt, I was wondering why there was a buncha yall in here, and I noticed my thread was sent in your general discussion thread.

 

[Arkenis]

The big bad heat attack that does what exactly? Every single time Ama has been showcased, it has repeatedly contradicted the 5,000 c value people agree with, how do we fine the BB's releasing more heat, vaporizing anything it touches more inconsistent than something that can't melt rocks or worse, a leaf.

Does what is kinda pointless here, we're told what Amaterasu is and what BB is. What the feats show are cool and meant to inspire awe in us and the characters. What they aren't meant to do, is be extrapolated on unless also not contradicted by said extrapolation.

 

[Foriaa]

What they aren't meant to do, is be extrapolated on unless also not contradicted by said extrapolation.

I'm arguing that the BB's heat output aren't contradicted.

 

[Arkenis]

Haha, the latest bleach nerfs must've hurt, I was wondering why there was a buncha yall in here, and I noticed my thread was sent in your general discussion thread.

Ngl man, the animes giving us good stuff and we already have Yamamoto, the error you made in the calc also just reduced the temp you had.

I'm arguing that the BB's heat output aren't contradicted.

Yes and I am telling you Amaterasu is the contradiction, narratively speaking. Unless you can show why Amaterasu actually is higher than its regularly stated stuff.

 

[Soulking22334]

I don't really care about Mei slightly melting Madara's Ribcage Susanoo, the feat of him no selling Kurama's TBB is when he's in PS.

"i dont care because its a middle finger to my scaling i will just ignore it"

Haha, the latest bleach nerfs must've hurt, I was wondering why there was a buncha yall in here, and I noticed my thread was sent in your general discussion thread.

at least we don't use the secret jutsu " asspull no jutus calc"

 

[Foriaa]

"i dont care because its a middle finger to my scaling i will just ignore it"

You know, you've yet to actually make an argument against what I said, all you've done was argue in incredulity about how you find the values to be too high for you to agree with.

at least we don't use the secret jutsu " asspull no jutus calc"

Haha

 

[Kachon123]

You guys need to relax with the dissing

 

[DavidTPPM]

"i dont care because its a middle finger to my scaling i will just ignore it"

It doesn't.

I don’t really get why so many people here are focusing on shit like lava release or fire release from Kage+ level characters. These attacks don't have a stated temperature and aren't natural, they're entirely generated by chakra and could just be hotter than naturally occurring fire or lava.

So unless you can give me concrete evidence that Meis lava caps at some specific level, you're just making empty assumptions. All while being a big jerk about it on top

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yes and I am telling you Amaterasu is the contradiction, narratively speaking. Unless you can show why Amaterasu actually is higher than its regularly stated stuff.

Amaterasu's "regularly stated stuff" is just heat of the sun. The part isn't specified so it could be the 5500°C surface or the 3 million °C corona or even the 15 million degree core.

Given the current calculation is below even the corona level I'd say all this does is shift the interpretation from the statement referring to the surface to the statement referring to the corona.

So it doesn't contradict anything, it just buffs up our interpretation from the lowest possible option to the next closest option.

 

[Soulking22334]

You know, you've yet to actually make an argument against what I said, all you've done was argue in incredulity about how you find the values to be too high for you to agree with

i did it but you said "i don't care"

Haha

laugh mr bum ass scaling <give me millions of degrees c hot explosion the size of several hills but forget the part about the instantaneous vaporization of point zero and its transformation into plasma, followed by a thermal flash and a transcontinental mechanical blast and with sun blocking dust causing a global winter and mass extinction.

don’t really get why so many people here are focusing on shit like lava release or fire release from Kage+ level characters. These attacks don't have a stated temperature and aren't natural, they're entirely generated by chakra and could just be hotter than naturally occurring fire or lava.

So unless you can give me concrete evidence that Meis lava caps at some specific level, you're just making empty assumptions. All while being a big jerk about it on top

Oh my God, how can they withstand Madra’s flames which reach temperatures in the millions with a wall of water? Is it magical water with a temperature close to absolute zero, or what? And if so, does the ice jutsu have a lower temperature?



And why doesn’t the fire here turn everything into plasma? How can it be seen? And why does it produce steam when it’s extinguished?

see this is your bum ass logic

 

[Arkenis]

Amaterasu's "regularly stated stuff" is just heat of the sun. The part isn't specified so it could be the 5500°C surface or the 3 million °C corona or even the 15 million degree core.

As a site we don't go for the highest interpretation unless further support backs it up. So what exactly is your point?

 

[Foriaa]

i did you said "i don't care"

Not at all, I said I don't care if Mei can burn Madara's Ribcage Susanoo, the feat being used to say he can resist Kurama's TBB is when he's in PS, as said and shown in the OP

laugh mr bum ass scaling <give me millions of degrees c hot explosion the size of several hills but forget the part about the instantaneous vaporization of point zero and its transformation into plasma, followed by a thermal flash and a transcontinental mechanical blast and with sun blocking dust causing a global winter and mass extinction.

Yea, I'm laughing mad hard right now knowing Yhwach, your supposed God Tier contends with a buncha random Mid tiers from Shippuden in speed

 

[Foriaa]

If you're going to continue arguing for Amaterasu, and how it plays a role in this thread, I ask you to please refer to the gallery I sent before, showcasing it's inconsistency when it comes to heat.

 

[Foriaa]

see this is your bum ass logic

, I like this dude

 

[Kachon123]

As a site we don't go for the highest interpretation unless further support backs it up. So what exactly is your point?

...his point is that the "further support" you're looking for is the calc in the OP. I'm overall neutral on this, but if there are three possible interpretations for the temp range, and there's new evidence supporting the middle end instead of us simply defaulting to the lowest available value, then we should absolutely go with the middle end. I can't speak on any contradictions though.

 

[Soulking22334]

Not at all, I said I don't care if Mei can burn Madara's Ribcage Susanoo, the feat being used to say he can resist Kurama's TBB is when he's in PS, as said shown in the OP

You need to care because it's impossible for Susanoo to transform from something that melts in lava into something capable of withstanding an explosion with a temperature of a few million degrees. lame logic

Yea, I'm laughing mad hard right now knowing Yhwach, your supposed God Tier contends with a buncha random Mid tiers from Shippuden in speed

Are you in your right mind? What does this have to do with anything, why are you mixing apples and oranges, stick to the topic ,his is the behavior of someone with a weak argument.



Plus, this isn’t a response to the points I raised here, but merely a failed attempt of mockery and a weak attempt to derail the discussion stemming from a weak argument.

, I like this dude

sure < a strong counterargument rendered me speechless

 

[Arkenis]

If you're going to continue argue for Amaterasu, and how it plays a role in this thread, I ask you to please refer to the gallery I sent before, showcasing it's inconsistency when it comes to heat.

They are pointless examples that lead nowhere when the story is telling us Amaterasu is the big bad heat attack. Biju bombs are the big bad destruction attack. So trying to derive heat scaling goes out the window when there's a narrative contradiction.

...his point is that the "further support" you're looking for is the calc in the OP. I'm overall neutral on this, but if there are three possible interpretations for the temp range, and there's new evidence supporting the middle end instead of us simply defaulting to the lowest available value, then we should absolutely go with the middle end. I can't speak on any contradictions though.

Calcs are extrapolation, they are not support from the story.

 

[Foriaa]

You need to care because it's impossible for Susanoo to transform from something that melts in lava into something capable of withstanding an explosion with a temperature of a few million degrees. lame logic

Please, prove this.

Are you in your right mind? What does this have to do with anything, why are you mixing apples and oranges, stick to the topic ,his is the behavior of someone with a weak argument.
Plus, this isn’t a response to the points I raised here, but merely a failed attempt of mockery and a weak attempt to derail the discussion stemming from a weak argument.

I'm waiting for you to formulate an actual argument with substance, you bring up Madara melting with Ribcage, I mention how that's not PS Madara, you then now reply by saying "it's impossible for Susanoo to transform from something that melts in lava into something capable of withstanding an explosion with a temperature of a few million degrees", without providing evidence.

They are pointless examples that lead nowhere when the story is telling us Amaterasu is the big bad heat attack. Biju bombs are the big bad destruction attack. So trying to derive heat scaling goes out the window when there's a narrative contradiction.

The only narrative contradiction here is Ama not actually releasing much heat energy, story points can absolutely be dismissed if there's inconsistencies, especially when they are consistently wrong. BB is known as being a big bad destruction attack, and it releases a lot of it's energy in the form of heat, I say this in the calc, you and others who disagree with this haven't provided reasoning why. If ama is as hot as you say it is, provide evidence, like the dude who previously disagreed with this said, we don't take statement at face value, lets use some basic critical thinking and apply the same standard to amaterasu as well.

Do we think Kishi is this infallible author who can't produce any inconsistencies or something? Ama's inconsistency is well known.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Oh my God, how can they withstand Madra’s flames which reach temperatures in the millions with a wall of water? Is it magical water with a temperature close to absolute zero, or what? And if so, does the ice jutsu have a lower temperature?

A fundamental aspect of the Naruto power system is that some elements are extraordinarily effective against others to the point they can outright fully negate them (like lightning release completely negating Deidaras earth release).

So yes it literally is magical water thatcreated through spiritual energy and it has super effectiveness against fire.

And why doesn’t the fire here turn everything into plasma?

It doesn't have to. If we restricted temperatures by whether they turn shit into plasma then no verse would ever get past 1 million regardless of direct statements.

How can it be seen?

Huh?

And why does it produce steam when it’s extinguished?

It doesn't. The water it evaporates turns into steam.

see this is your bum ass logic

If you can't reply without being an asshole then just don't reply in general brobama

---

As a site we don't go for the highest interpretation unless further support backs it up. So what exactly is your point?

I never said we should go for the highest interpretation or that's what the wiki does.

I'm saying YOU are assuming the lowest possible interpretation out of 3+ possible equally likely interpretations.

Meaning it's not the statement that's inconsistent but your interpretation. In fact since the other interpretations aren't contradicted, this makes them more likely than the lowest one you're assuming.

 

[Soulking22334]

Please, prove this.

I'm waiting for you to formulate an actual argument with substance, you bring up Madara melting with Ribcage, I mention how that's not PS Madara, you then now reply by saying "it's impossible for Susanoo to transform from something that melts in lava into something capable of withstanding an explosion with a temperature of a few million degrees", without providing evidence.

I think the burden of proof that the Susanoo can withstand this lies with you, since you’re the one who came up with the idea. Apparently, the Susanoo melted from the lava, so there’s no reason for us to say it wouldn’t vaporize and turn into plasma if exposed to an explosion with temperatures of millions of degrees Celsius. It’s up to you to prove this, because the apparent facts are against you.


plus you ignored my other quote "give me millions of degrees c hot explosion the size of several hills but forget the part about the instantaneous vaporization of point zero and its transformation into plasma, followed by a thermal flash and a transcontinental mechanical blast and with sun blocking dust causing a global winter and mass extinction."

A fundamental aspect of the Naruto power system is that some elements are extraordinarily effective against others to the point they can outright fully negate them (like lightning release completely negating Deidaras earth release).

but madara's fire is very high temperature wise how can magic water that are not that cold be effective??

So yes it literally is magical water thatcreated through spiritual energy and it has super effectiveness against fire.

give me scan that says normal water <<<<< jutsu water

It doesn't have to. If we restricted temperatures by whether they turn shit into plasma then no verse would ever get past 1 million regardless of direct statements.

No, because at the very least, it has to make sense within the story, without the place turning into plasma or a thermal flash occurring extreme heat is out of the question.

Huh?

Fire at temperatures of millions of degrees is converted into invisible gamma rays or X-rays

It doesn't. The water it evaporates turns into steam.

so jutsu water act like real water???

 

[Foriaa]

I think the burden of proof that the Susanoo can withstand this lies with you, since you’re the one who came up with the idea. Apparently, the Susanoo melted from the lava, so there’s no reason for us to say it wouldn’t vaporize and turn into plasma if exposed to an explosion with temperatures of millions of degrees Celsius. It’s up to you to prove this, because the apparent facts are against you.

The burden of proof is not on me, you find it impossible to believe that the PS can resist those levels of heat, and the evidence you provide is that a much weaker Ribcage Susanoo was melting from Mei's ability, which btw, doesn't have any stated heat output. None of the facts are against me. Seeing as how you refuse to read the OP, I will send the scan showing PS Susanoo eating the TBB from Kurama:

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Why is OP starting a flame war in his thread..?

 

[Foriaa]

I started this? Ok.

"i dont care because its a middle finger to my scaling i will just ignore it"

at least we don't use the secret jutsu " asspull no jutus calc"

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Haha, the latest bleach nerfs must've hurt, I was wondering why there was a buncha yall in here, and I noticed my thread was sent in your general discussion thread.

Yes OP you started it at post 52..

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

Interestingly, the heat from the fireball Sasuke used early in the part one—simply due to its vaporization with the ground—would generate temperatures of at least 1,000°C (though a precise figure hasn't been established). I mention this to suggest that, regardless of the specifics, the flames from Fire Style jutsus reach temperatures in the thousands of degrees.

 

[Foriaa]

Yes OP you started it at post 52..

You don't think him attacking my reasoning by calling it "soo ridiculous" is not at the very least disrespectful, if not, why are you here trying to act as if this is some one sided flame war, he said some weird shit, I respond with weird shit.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

You don't think him attacking my reasoning by calling it "soo ridiculous" is not at the very least disrespectful, if not, why are you here trying to act as if this is some one sided flame war, he said some weird shit, I respond with weird shit.

Except you’re starting a flame war. Are you actually not understanding?

He said “over my dead body” suggesting he doesn’t like your calculation.

You proceeded to go make it some sort of Naruto vs Bleach thing lol.

 

[Foriaa]

He said “over my dead body” suggesting he doesn’t like your calculation.

Go to post 49, that's the first disrespectful thing he said.

Honestly, your logic is sooo ridiculous.

 

[Foriaa]

snip

Close this for now, need to eval the calc first and I'll re open later tonight