The AllSpark (Bayverse): Big Upgrade

[Katipax]

Welcome​

Following this absolutely GORGEOUS Transformers cosmology remake (which is literally everything I've dreamed of seeing since I first started scaling Transformers properly instead of taking random-ass bogus scales (as of 3 weeks ago)) by Emirp Sumitpo, I saw it fit to make an upgrade of my own.

The Scale​

Firstly, although this is a nothing-burger statement, the AllSpark is stated to be:

"the ultimate source of power in the known universe"

Given that universe standards are 17 Dimensional, it is stated that the AllSpark has:

1. Created the universe once in the comics.

2. Heavily implied to have created the universe again through the beginning of the 2007 film.

Going by this shittily-put-together profile for The Last Prime (IDW Movie Comics), it seems the AllSpark scales between Large Star level and Solar System level.

The proposal in question here is simply to upgrade the AllSpark to 17-21D, which should be 1-B Hyperverse level. Whether you want to add a "possibly" or a "varies" is all your call, but I think it should either be given outright 1-B or "Varies between High 4-C and 1-B", given the 2 statements across the Movie and the Comics.

P.S. We should make a profile for the AllSpark so that there is something to go by other than this niche and obscure The Last Prime (IDW Movie Comics) profile.

Conclusion​

Agreements: (0)
Neutral: (0)
Disagreements: (1)
- Drite77

 

[Hellbeast]

just to clarify, is this for the Movie Comics or for the film continuity

 

[Katipax]

just to clarify, is this for the Movie Comics or for the film continuity

It should be both because they're all connected in a Multiverse, and some of the info I shared is spread between comics AND movies, with the IDW Comics having 17D statements of their own just as the movies do. As such this is applicable to both movies and comics.

 

[Katipax]

With the IDW Comics having 17D statements of their own just as the movies do.

Although I didn't include these statements because the notion of universes being 17D+ is already accepted by VSBW

 

[Drite77]

I heavily disagree with this. It is not heavily implied the All Spark created the universe in that narration, the fact Optimus says "We know not where it comes from" straight up indicates they do not know how the All Spark came to be, so saying it created the universe is a big reach

The comic itself does not say the All Spark created the universe, it was simply formed from the singularity that created the universe.

 

[Katipax]

I heavily disagree with this. It is not heavily implied the All Spark created the universe in that narration, the fact Optimus says "We know not where it comes from" straight up indicates they do not know how the All Spark came to be, so saying it created the universe is a big reach

That's in the context of Cybertronian-perception. Just as how we don't know where the Big Bang came from, they don't know where the AllSpark came from. On top of the fact it existed before time itself.

The comic itself does not say the All Spark created the universe, it was simply formed from the singularity that created the universe.

The Cube in ROTF is described as a vessel to contain power and knowledge, as shown by Sam Witwicky after absorbing the information of the AllSpark. It can be inferred that these primal forces reside in the Cube and that the singularity in question is its "true form" so to speak, and that the Cube is simply a vessel that the Allspark created to house its power.

 

[Drite77]

That's in the context of Cybertronian-perception. Just as how we don't know where the Big Bang came from, they don't know where the AllSpark came from. On top of the fact it existed before time itself.

That is still not proof it created the universe, Optimus' shouldn't be taken as an Omniscient narrator, he does not know how old the AllSpark is and if it existed before time itself, there is nothing else to indicate that in the movies

The Cube in ROTF is described as a vessel to contain power and knowledge, as shown by Sam Witwicky after absorbing the information of the AllSpark. It can be inferred that these primal forces reside in the Cube and that the singularity in question is its "true form" so to speak, and that the Cube is simply a vessel that the Allspark created to house its power.

No, it can't, there's no proof of that

Count me on the disagree already

 

[Katipax]

That is still not proof it created the universe, Optimus' shouldn't be taken as an Omniscient narrator, he does not know how old the AllSpark is and if it existed before time itself, there is nothing else to indicate that in the movies

Where would they be able to indicate such a thing? They had that segment in the beginning to explain the origins of the Allspark. It's like our version of carbon dating, but given their technology they can see that.

No, it can't, there's no proof of that

Count me on the disagree already

It can be inferred that way. If your refutal to my explanation is literally just "nuh uh piss off", then you clearly have nothing of value to say and are rooted specifically in your own personal bias with no wanting to hear out the other person.

Your vote will be counted.

 

[Drite77]

They had that segment in the beginning to explain the origins of the Allspark

Narrated by Optimus Prime, who does not know everything about the cube, he even says they do not know where it comes from. This does not, in fact, imply it created the universe, and it shouldn't be taken as such

If your refutal to my explanation is literally just "nuh uh piss off", then you clearly have nothing of value to say and are rooted specifically in your own personal bias with no wanting to hear out the other person.

My refutal is that there is no real explanation to it outside of you going "It could be that". You don't have an actual explanation, you're grasping at something that does not exist to justify the AllSpark's rating, nothing of this is concrete, this is just "There are these two vague statements, that if we stretch out a bit could be the creation of the universe"

It can be inferred that these primal forces reside in the Cube and that the singularity in question is its "true form" so to speak, and that the Cube is simply a vessel that the Allspark created to house its power.

All of these have no source to back it up, once again, it is just taking two vague statements and stretching them out

 

[Katipax]

Narrated by Optimus Prime, who does not know everything about the cube, he even says they do not know where it comes from. This does not, in fact, imply it created the universe, and it shouldn't be taken as such

So we're not supposed to appeal to Optimus Prime but then you're directly appealing to Optimus Prime? They're Cybertronians, literally sub-serviant to the AllSpark's power.

All of these have no source to back it up, once again, it is just taking two vague statements and stretching them out

I can't handle the fact that these statements are so vague I need to do so. My inference feels perfectly logical and you simply won't admit that. If there is a Cybertronian that could understand the Allspark, it is The Fallen and he provided some decent exposition as well.

 

[Hellbeast]

I would note that there could be support for this elsewhere in the verse

 

[Katipax]

I would note that there could be support for this elsewhere in the verse

And what support would that be?