Lookism: God Tiers AP Upgrades

[CatLover313]

It's been a week since this calculation (High 8-C - Large Building Level: 6.05 Tons of TNT) was accepted, so going to make a CRT for the characters this would apply to as it feels like it's been enough time....

Caveat to non-Lookism readers. Path is a sort of power-up and is different depending on the user. We don't know the name nor "exact" mechanics of James Lee and Kitae Kim's Path so I have to leave it like that.

Characters getting upgrades/changes and how it'll look:

• James Lee: At least High 8-C (Currently scales to this feat; 2.22 Tons of TNT), higher with Path (6.05 Tons of TNT; Directly performed the feat using his Path)
• Kitae Kim: At least High 8-C (Currently scales to this feat; 2.22 Tons of TNT), higher with Path (His attack was the one countered with James stating "it didn't work")
• Jinyoung Park: At least High 8-C (Currently scales to this feat; 2.22 Tons of TNT), higher with Path (Could make Kitae Kim use his Path and exchange various attacks with each other)
• True Body Daniel Park: At least 9-A, higher with Path (These two are his current status; they don't change), High 8-C with Ultra Instinct (Could exchange hits multiple times with Kitae Kim and Kitae Kim compares this version of Daniel to Jinyoung Park with his Path)
• Shingen Yamazaki (Prime Key): At least High 8-C (Jinyoung Park says Shingen, Gapryong, and Kitae Kim are all in the same realm), 8-B in Uncontrolled Ultra Instinct (Uncontrolled Ultra Instinct is a 3x strength increase as it is stated to become several times stronger; 18.15 Tons of TNT)
• Gapryong Kim (Prime Key): At least High 8-C (Jinyoung Park says Shingen, Gapryong, and Kitae Kim are all in the same realm)
• Perfect Body Daniel Park: Varies up to High 8-C (Jinyoung says he would’ve loved to see a fight between UI Daniel and Gapyrong Kim. True Body Daniel Park was pushing his limits and breaking his body to imitate him)

Agreements: Viott, LegendariumOfLies, Sigmagoon14, JirensMom, ComicCalc, Kakistan (But wants Old Tom Lee and his Rage form to scale), ComicCalc (besides whats in the bottom)

Disagreements:

• On the Shingen 3x multiplier: Pettam33 (Because the "realm statement" was made in the context of active Path-wielders, not necessarily comparing base Shingen/Gapryong to Path Kitae), FragrantJaguar150, ComicCalc (Because Shintaro's "talent" statement is ambiguous between "attaining TUI" vs "using TUI" and that Gun's 3x multiplier can't be automatically assumed to carry over to Shingen), Powerscalingcat (Disagrees for now because they want to hold off until actual Prime UI Shingen feats are shown, since it's theoretically possible Kitae/James have already surpassed Gapryong/Shingen)
• The James/Kitae crater feat was a joint effort: FragrantJaguar150 (Says both paths being drawn simultaneously implies a mutual clash), XxZetsuxX (Says because two people did it together, the feat's value should be split 50/50 between them)

 

[Pyro9278]

Since we have this thread, it should also be clarified that Shingen in his Prime 8-B form with his Uncontrolled Ultra Instinct (multiplies his base power by 3x, just like Gun)

 

[CatLover313]

Since we have this thread, it should also be clarified that Shingen in his Prime 8-B form with his Uncontrolled Ultra Instinct (multiplies his base power by 3x, just like Gun)

Added

 

[Viott]

I agree.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Agree

 

[JirensMom]

agree

 

[Sigmagoon14]

Agree

 

[Pxnd_013]

Gap stated that he and the Fist Gang had previously fought Shingen while he was in his Uncontrolled UI state. The series also explicitly states that Gap was the pinnacle of Generation 0. Based on that, can he be scaled to 8-B?

 

[Sigmagoon14]

I just re-read it again. I have a small question, or confusion you could say, about TB Daniel. Shouldn't his Path key also get High 8C, not from this feat but from the gap feat? Since he took hits from Base Kitae with Despair & Strength Mastery to his face and neck (which is more vulnerable than the skull) because the one-shot 8x gap is based on punching through the skull, while Daniel in his Path took hits to his face and only got knocked out, despite the gap between him and Kitae being almost above 35x.

(Apologies in advance if I'm wrong, but it's just an assumption and I am still firm on my vote)

 

[Pyro9278]

Gap stated that he and the Fist Gang had previously fought Shingen while he was in his Uncontrolled UI state. The series also explicitly states that Gap was the pinnacle of Generation 0. Based on that, can he be scaled to 8-B?

For now, we need to know what happened in the fight to be sure that Gap scales to 8-B, since simply anything could have happened.

I just re-read it again. I have a small question, or confusion you could say, about TB Daniel. Shouldn't his Path key also get High 8C, not from this feat but from the gap feat? Since he took hits from Base Kitae with Despair & Strength Mastery to his face and neck (which is more vulnerable than the skull) because the one-shot 8x gap is based on punching through the skull, while Daniel in his Path took hits to his face and only got knocked out, despite the gap between him and Kitae being almost above 35x.

Daniel's durability should not be rated as High 8-C+ (6.05 Tons) since the only hit he landed with his Path was an attack on a weak point and was the only one we saw that significantly affected Kitae. Furthermore, by the point where Kitae began hitting him with his Path and Power Mastery, it was more a feat of endurance than durability because he could lose consciousness at any moment. Therefore, his durability should only be rated as High 8-C (2.22 Tons) since he could better handle the blows of a base Kitae, even in poor condition.

 

[Crimsonobu]

Why would Shingen scale 3x above a character he's stated in a similar realm to? (James and Kitae are shown borderline equals)
especially when that persons using their path ability .
Kitae should have direct scaling to the 6tons due to the reflection still showing his black effects. + the whole framing of the fight is them being relative to eachother

 

[Pxnd_013]

For now, we need to know what happened in the fight to be sure that Gap scales to 8-B, since simply anything could have happened.

You're right. But based on the scans I sent, I don't see any reason why Gap can't be scaled to Shingen.

1. He is explicitly stated to be the pinnacle of Generation 0.

2. Jinyoung had already witnessed Shingen in his Uncontrolled UI state, yet he still stated that Shingen and Gap were on the same level, meaning both of them are within the realm of monsters.

3. It is explicitly stated that Shingen, while in his Uncontrolled UI state, fought the Fist Gang seriously.

4. Shingen himself stated that Gap was on the same level as him.

 

[CatLover313]

I just re-read it again. I have a small question, or confusion you could say, about TB Daniel. Shouldn't his Path key also get High 8C, not from this feat but from the gap feat? Since he took hits from Base Kitae with Despair & Strength Mastery to his face and neck (which is more vulnerable than the skull) because the one-shot 8x gap is based on punching through the skull, while Daniel in his Path took hits to his face and only got knocked out, despite the gap between him and Kitae being almost above 35x.

(Apologies in advance if I'm wrong, but it's just an assumption and I am still firm on my vote)

Daniel already has High 8-C durability, his AP was questionable because he had that one hit to Kitae skull (through his weak point advantage) but none of his other attacks did any damage showing a notable gap. So I’m leaving that alone.

You're right. But based on the scans I sent, I don't see any reason why Gap can't be scaled to Shingen.

1. He is explicitly stated to be the pinnacle of Generation 0.

2. Jinyoung had already witnessed Shingen in his Uncontrolled UI state, yet he still stated that Shingen and Gap were on the same level, meaning both of them are within the realm of monsters.

3. It is explicitly stated that Shingen, while in his Uncontrolled UI state, fought the Fist Gang seriously.

4. Shingen himself stated that Gap was on the same level as him.

Until the fight is shown with TUI Shingen vs Gap. I’m not going to scale him. Besides point 3, most of this can be Shingen considering gap equal to his Non-TUI self anyway. Even then, we still don’t know how the fight went and I’m not going to consider scaling a non-screen fight went until it happens on screen. (could also be a HFG TUI Gun situation where pre-transforming, that Gun was so weak, Goo no sold his attacks).

 

[WindyAttack]

I don't remember viotts calc being accepted

 

[Aksh_sky]

Lol, i was just about to make a CGD regarding this very calc. Anyways I'll make it tomorrow but for now... Jinrang also scales to it.

 

[CatLover313]

Sigh, I even waited over a week to see when the cgd was/if it was going to drop. Well, if it does drop, this crt will have to be put on pause

 

[Aksh_sky]

Sigh, I even waited over a week to see when the cgd was/if it was going to drop. Well, if it does drop, this crt will have to be put on pause

Sry man, i was js kinda busy. And I was also collecting pixel scans to add more and more substantial weight to my args. I legit thought that it'll be done before.

 

[CatLover313]

Luckily I didn’t ask any staff to review this thread yet, so, until the CGD is finalized, discussions on scaling can be paused.

 

[Pettam33]

I heavily disagree with the 18+ ton shingen jump in tui...

This entire point assumes that jinyoung was specifically referring to a BASE Ui Shingen, and BASE Gap within the flashback, to effectively compare them them to a Path kitae.

Narratively, it makes no sense for Jinyoung to refer to both Gap or Shingen's base counterparts in that flashback, when the entire statement and context surrounding it was made in reference to Path wielding fighters, actively welding their paths.

All we know for certain, is this;

1. Jinyoung (with copies), and Path Daniel = 2.22 Tons (higher with his Hax).

2. Kitae Base FP = 2.22 Tons, or higher.

2. Ui Daniel = 6+ Tons (Via matching kitae's path physicals.

3. Path Kitae =< Path Shingen ~<Path Gap (All would be = to 6.05 Tons).

3. Base Ui Shingen would be = 2.22 Tons, or higher.

Tui Shingen would be (with his 3× increase) = 6.6+ Tons.

I believe we need much more evidence to place Shingen, and by proxy Gap that high in base as well.

 

[Aksh_sky]

This entire point assumes that jinyoung was specifically referring to a BASE Ui Shingen, and BASE Gap within the flashback, to effectively compare them them to a Path kitae.

Uhhhhhhh...He highkey was. Gap wasn't in overcoming neither was Shingen in TUI. It's pretty obvious, no? Also idk why ppl don't understand the difference between having path and using path, Kitae in FP scales above Gap and Shingen but before Jinyoung had path, Kitae wasn't in FP.

Narratively, it makes no sense for Jinyoung to refer to both Gap or Shingen's base counterparts in that flashback, when the entire statement and context surrounding it was made in reference to Path wielding fighters, actively welding their paths.

And why's that? What does path has to do with TUI or overcome? It could be just said that they both have path, but the TUI multiplier would still be effected.

Anyways, not like city blockism is going anywhere and hopefully it works but for now this crt would need to be paused.

 

[Pettam33]

Uhhhhhhh...He highkey was. Gap wasn't in overcoming neither was Shingen in TUI. It's pretty obvious, no? Also idk why ppl don't understand the difference between having path and using path, Kitae in FP scales above Gap and Shingen but before Jinyoung had path, Kitae wasn't in FP.

Or ptj didn't see the need to show it... From the start (personally), I have never interpreted Kitae being =< Base shingen or BASE gap, especially considering the fact that kitae went against a base shingen copy Jinyoung, and wasn't really phased in the slightest.

Furthermore, Jinyoung referenced REALM. REALM = Those who possess some form of PATH. Literally the context of that scene, being that Kitae is in the same realm with those who are confirmed to possess a Path. It logically makes no sense for Jinyoung to reference PATHLESS iterations of both Shingen and Gap to a Path kitae, when Paths were being mentioned to be the VERY thing that separated himself from guys like kitae, shingen and gap. Who coincidentally possess Paths themselves.

Kitae has been going Fp in base ever since he pulled out strength mastery for pathniel (that's him no longer holding back due to seeing how much potential Daniel had, he's BEEN out for the kill) Jinyoung then stepped it up a notch with Shingen copy, and did slightly better, and then with gap copy. We don't know when Kitae activated his path in the fight (but he likely activated it between despair punching jinyoung and after) but it's actually a mystery atp.

Regardless, I do know for sure KITAE started going all out in base against awakened pathniel. Eitherway, he still needs feats to get him there, the most you can say, which I already made clear with fp kitae being above the 2.22 Tons, but still weaker than his 6+ ton path self, that he performed with James. For anyone that might say it, NO. It is unlikely that Kitae and James would hold back when they fought, given the stakes and James' seriousness, coupled with the fact that James and kitae implying that they've faught each other before. No logical reason to pull their punches...

Irrespective of this, we're just playing the 'my assumption is better than yours game'. I can equally say Realm = To kitae's level of strength here too, WITH path since it does also mean a level of strength, and Jinyoung indirectly implies that they are all relative to each other. (Even if you have gap and shingen stronger, no evidence proves it's to an astronomical amount, especially with that 3 times amp. But I doubt shingen would use it since it ain't really viable and likely weaker than his path self)

Jinyoung has never once hinted, or told us that gap and shingen are much stronger than Kitae, only that Kitae was in their tier/Realm, meaning he'd keep up with them base to base, and path to path BARE MINIMUM.

And why's that? What does path has to do with TUI or overcome? It could be just said that they both have path, but the TUI multiplier would still be effected.

1. Tui multiplier would likely be inapplicable in shingen's case, since it's heavily implied he can't control Tui, especially for him to THEN stack it and use it whenever he wishes...

2. He'd be stacking it with his path, which is HIGHLY Unlikely due to TUI's nature. That needs to be shown, since we have no idea what Shingen or Gapryoung's path are, or what they even look like or do. The most we know for the latter is that it has to do with overcome.

Anyways, not like city blockism is going anywhere and hopefully it works but for now this crt would need to be paused.

I made my first comment before I saw the updated changes ATT. Eitherway, my stance is firm. Until we get some form of statement or feats that have backbone to give SHINGEN Kitae's path level strength in base. It's a dead end.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Or ptj didn't see the need to show it... From the start (personally)

This pretty much already narrows this down to a subjective interpretation of a statement without a valid objective justification so we can just say that it's a disagreement and arguing won't really lead anywhere since you've already stated that you're adamant about your stance.

 

[Viott]

If CGD is going to be opened, stop making comments. This CRT needs to be put on hold for a short period of time.

 

[CatLover313]

I don't remember viotts calc being accepted

Y'know, you can just click on the blog link and it'll lead you to his post with the staff evaluation. Though a CGD is being made so things might change, who knows

 

[Pyro9278]

Sigh, I even waited over a week to see when the cgd was/if it was going to drop. Well, if it does drop, this crt will have to be put on pause

Supporters of Lookism, if hindering other supporters of Lookism were a competition (No hate btw, I just find the situation funny)

 

[Pyro9278]

Anyway, the calculation doesn't really matter since the only thing that changes is the exact value, and we know it's higher than Gap's feat. But the scale remains the same.

And no, until we see what happened in the fight with Gapryong and Shingen, we're not going to rank Gap 8-B. Anything could have happened in that fight: Shingen could have been exhausted or suffered a fatal injury, more than one person could have been involved, or even Shingen or Gap could have been interrupted, despite the fact that we know Gap legitimately "won." The most logical conclusion would be that a Gap with Conviction would be on par with Shingen UI in any case.

 

[CatLover313]

Anyway, the calculation doesn't really matter since the only thing that changes is the exact value, and we know it's higher than Gap's feat. But the scale remains the same.

Should we continue the CRT then if numbers are the only thing that will need to be changed (if the CGD changes anything)?

And no, until we see what happened in the fight with Gapryong and Shingen, we're not going to rank Gap 8-B. Anything could have happened in that fight: Shingen could have been exhausted or suffered a fatal injury, more than one person could have been involved, or even Shingen or Gap could have been interrupted, despite the fact that we know Gap legitimately "won." The most logical conclusion would be that a Gap with Conviction would be on par with Shingen UI in any case.

Maybe Shingen going TUI is what makes Gapryong go True Conviction mode (Headcanonning here), but yeah, best to not rate anyone else for now.

 

[Pyro9278]

Should we continue the CRT then if numbers are the only thing that will need to be changed (if the CGD changes anything)?

Considering that the proposals that come later are to inflate the calculation, yeah, the only thing that would have to be changed is the value plus the scale does not change.

Maybe Shingen going TUI is what makes Gapryong go True Conviction mode (Headcanonning here), but yeah, best to not rate anyone else for now.

That's the most logical thing to do, however there's nothing to support that conclusion, so yes, for now only Shingen Prime scales to 8-B.

 

[Pxnd_013]

Daniel already has High 8-C durability, his AP was questionable because he had that one hit to Kitae skull (through his weak point advantage) but none of his other attacks did any damage showing a notable gap. So I’m leaving that alone.

Until the fight is shown with TUI Shingen vs Gap. I’m not going to scale him. Besides point 3, most of this can be Shingen considering gap equal to his Non-TUI self anyway. Even then, we still don’t know how the fight went and I’m not going to consider scaling a non-screen fight went until it happens on screen. (could also be a HFG TUI Gun situation where pre-transforming, that Gun was so weak, Goo no sold his attacks).

It would be rather strange if Shingen, who stated that Gap was on the same level as him, was actually referring to a version of himself that wasn't even at full power. Still, it's not a big deal. This interpretation works just fine as well.

 

[CatLover313]

It would be rather strange if Shingen, who stated that Gap was on the same level as him, was actually referring to a version of himself that wasn't even at full power. Still, it's not a big deal. This interpretation works just fine as well.

I mean, not like Gun himself really counts his TUI version when referring to Power levels. He considered Goo and Tom (lol) would be the ones to defeat him despite an injured TUI version of himself demolishing Goo (and god knows what it do to Tom). Especially since it seems like both TUI users can’t really control themselves, wouldn’t be too crazy for Shingen not to consider it when talking about equals. But that’s going into headcanon range so best thing is to not relate anyone to it.

 

[Pxnd_013]

I mean, not like Gun himself really counts his TUI version when referring to Power levels. He considered Goo and Tom (lol) would be the ones to defeat him despite an injured TUI version of himself demolishing Goo (and god knows what it do to Tom). Especially since it seems like both TUI users can’t really control themselves, wouldn’t be too crazy for Shingen not to consider it when talking about equals. But that’s going into headcanon range so best thing is to not relate anyone to it.

The difference is that Shingen was aware that he had Uncontrolled UI, and by the end, he was still able to control it to some extent. Gun, on the other hand, couldn't even remember what he had done. If he didn't even know how strong he was in that state, then it's not surprising that he speculated Tom or Goo might be able to kill him. After all, it was only speculation. That said, having Prime Shingen as the only 8-B character for now works well too.

 

[Aksh_sky]

The difference is that Shingen was aware that he had Uncontrolled UI, and by the end, he was still able to control it to some extent. Gun, on the other hand, couldn't even remember what he had done. If he didn't even know how strong he was in that state, then it's not surprising that he speculated Tom or Goo might be able to kill him. After all, it was only speculation. That said, having Prime Shingen as the only 8-B character for now works well too.

Goo is currently top 1 in the verse so he can pretty much kill anyone.

 

[Sigmagoon14]

The difference is that Shingen was aware that he had Uncontrolled UI, and by the end, he was still able to control it to some extent. Gun, on the other hand,

Actually, your reasoning lowkey makes sense because it's different from Gun and Goo's situation. Goo never faced TUI, and that's why Gun himself never had any idea how TUI makes him stronger. Also, to add, Gun can't remember anything.
On the other hand, Gapryong did face TUI Shingen, and like you said, Shingen can pretty much perceive what his TUI can do. Also, at a certain point he can control his TUI (he stopped himself from killing Gun) Despite everything, Shingen calls him equal. The world calls Gapryong the pinnacle of the present, not Shingen. So Gapryong not scaling to TUI Shingen doesn't really add up.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Whats CGD?

 

[Pettam33]

This pretty much already narrows this down to a subjective interpretation of a statement without a valid objective justification so we can just say that it's a disagreement and arguing won't really lead anywhere since you've already stated that you're adamant about your stance.

Not really how it works given the overall context, it makes no sense Jinyoung to refer to any other version of gap, or shingen other than their peak states in the conversation of PATHS.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Not really how it works given the overall context, it makes no sense Jinyoung to refer to any other version of gap, or shingen other than their peak states in the conversation of PATHS.

We were literally shown about which version of them was Jinyoung reffering to. And i think the oficial source holds more substantial value than your subjective interpretation.

 

[Pettam33]

The point was never to show tui or conviction aura around gap, it's to say that kitae is relative to these guys, and could hold his own since he's within the same tier, any other way is just assumption heavy.

Look, I'm not totally disagreeing whether the 18 ton jump is possible or not, but atm, it just doesn't show the relevant evidence to warrant that increase.

 

[Pyro9278]

Whats CGD?

Discussion in the Calculator Group

 

[poyraz]

Something caught my eye while reading this: why are we treating Shingen's Tui as 3x? Gun Park's is 3x, sure, but what does that have to do with Shingen? Gun Park is already more skilled than Shingen when it comes to Tui.

 

[WindyAttack]

Pettams argument is irrelevant as we know that @Viott said Both James and Kitae scales to the explosion due to the durability

Since strength mastery kitae can damage James more then the explosion this would mean base kitae scales to that either way. Since Base Kitae ~ Base Shingen at least then we can use TUI Multiplier and boom results remains the same

Also as @Aksh_sky said this is irrelevant since Young Jinrang scales to gapryongs feat who's below Base Warren the using 3x CQC multiplier we can aruge it to be higher then ofc Base Shingen > CQC Warren then TUI over that so overall consistent City Block level scaling