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Espio the Chameleon vs UB-02 Absorption
- Thread starter King_Clab
- Start date
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If you heavily disagree, then you should be able to explain the inconsistancies between the symptoms of confusion I brought up across the 4 anime examples we went over.
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So then you agree with me that the games take priority after all? The anime symptom that best fits the games is probably the one shown by Politoad's Swagger, in which case Buzzwole most likely gets demolished by an angry invisible amped Espio.
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No, Politoad's swagger didn't account for the disorientation.
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It did. It just wasn't severe enough to make every move of the target miss, exactly like in the games.
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Sure, not every move misses, but the overall general portrayal of confusion is very heavy disorientation. In the case with Politoed it didn't show that part much which honestly is more of an issue with early seasons of anime being ass at showcasing moves. The most consistent portrayal is very much in tow with the game descriptions that the Pokemon is disoriented to the point where it can attack allies or itself but could also force through to actually land hits.
My argument, yet again, is not that Espio won't land hits - he will. What I believe is that the confused status and enragement will make him attack directly leaving him open for a grab. That is all. Whether that is a viable wincon or not for the rest of the voters should be up to the voters.
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It didn't get to show that explicitelt because Arbok's move actually landed. The disorientation is still shown in spiral eyes of the subject and Brock's explanation of the Swagger.
And my argument, yet again, is the fact that Buzzwole would not get to have a good follow up on Espio in over 60% of scenarios. At best, he gets Espio confused before the latter gets to hit him even once, meaning he still has no idea that a single attack from Espio is damn close to, if not beyond, the upper limit of what any Pokemon can handle before being one shot (even before the Swagger boost). Then, he's required to tank one of those attacks from his invisible opponent and retaliate quickly and precisely enough to catch him and drink him before the latter rolls out of sight or strikes him a second time, something Espio can easily do with the homing attack (which is instinctively homing and would therefore land regardless of disorientation) and spin dash (which massively amps Espio's speed). Again, all of this is assuming that Buzzwole even gets to pull of a Swagger before getting blitzed by homing attacks or stabbed in the head by a kunai with Espio's insane precision. Even from inside Buzzwole's grip, Espio still has one more attack with which he can finish him off. His tongue grants him a potential win con while literally inside Buzzwole's already unlikely win con.
At this point, I do agree that we are arguing in circles though, so with both of our arguments summarized, we can leave it up to the voters now.
And my argument, yet again, is the fact that Buzzwole would not get to have a good follow up on Espio in over 60% of scenarios. At best, he gets Espio confused before the latter gets to hit him even once, meaning he still has no idea that a single attack from Espio is damn close to, if not beyond, the upper limit of what any Pokemon can handle before being one shot (even before the Swagger boost). Then, he's required to tank one of those attacks from his invisible opponent and retaliate quickly and precisely enough to catch him and drink him before the latter rolls out of sight or strikes him a second time, something Espio can easily do with the homing attack (which is instinctively homing and would therefore land regardless of disorientation) and spin dash (which massively amps Espio's speed). Again, all of this is assuming that Buzzwole even gets to pull of a Swagger before getting blitzed by homing attacks or stabbed in the head by a kunai with Espio's insane precision. Even from inside Buzzwole's grip, Espio still has one more attack with which he can finish him off. His tongue grants him a potential win con while literally inside Buzzwole's already unlikely win con.
At this point, I do agree that we are arguing in circles though, so with both of our arguments summarized, we can leave it up to the voters now.
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I still think Buzzwole's wincon coming from Espio's LS stat being wrong is a little silly. But I guess if it's on the profile, even if it's an error it's still there.
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I don't know if Espio's LS is wrong, and the matchup only works with the current profiles
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He's Class M based on Metal Sonic's rating from years ago. It's def wrong
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But is it necessarily higher than Buzzwole's class Z? I start to question the multi-stellar LS of base Sonic characters on account of consistancy alone.He's Class M based on Metal Sonic's rating from years ago. It's def wrong
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I mean wouldn't that be a matter for a CRT to decide? Multi-Stellar LS is just what the characters all scale to in the modern era. That's just what's accepted rn.
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Not really tbh, though I am quite certain Espio takes that too. He and Knuckles are the two most skilled fighters Sonic knows, and Sonic's own skill feats are downright absurd, with several characters like Shadow still being able to match him regardless.
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- Thread starter
- #139
You learn something new everyday
I don’t know much about Sonic (Besides from Metal Sonic being the goat), but do they do Martial arts there?
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