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A Regressor’s Tale Of Cultivation Proposal. (Part 1)

Low 1-A for the Plane of Qi is fine. I don't see sufficient evidence to justify an additional layer between the Plane of Fate and the Plane of Soul. While the Plane of Fate is clearly portrayed as "higher" than the others, the evidence I see alone is not enough to quantify it as an additional 1-A layer.

The True Immortal Realm would be another layer beyond that, but I don't see anything supporting High 1-A.

From my understanding, the Planes of Fate, Soul, and Qi are themselves composed of multiple planes, with the highest points of those structures intersecting at the True Immortal Realm. If that interpretation is correct, then True Immortals are essentially removing the "lower" aspects of these planes from themselves while remaining subject to the highest aspects. As a result, they do not actually transcend the hierarchical framework formed by the planes themselves; they simply occupy its apex.

That distinction is important because sitting at the top of a hierarchy is not the same thing as operating under an entirely different framework, which is generally what High 1-A requires.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
From my understanding, the Planes of Fate, Soul, and Qi are themselves composed of multiple planes, with the highest points of those structures intersecting at the True Immortal Realm. If that interpretation is correct, then True Immortals are essentially removing the "lower" aspects of these planes from themselves while remaining subject to the highest aspects. As a result, they do not actually transcend the hierarchical framework formed by the planes themselves; they simply occupy its apex.
Click to expand...
No, the true immortal real is literally just above the hierarchy of the planes, it is a big point during the MC transformation to true immortal. Even then I disagree with anything beyond multiversal because there is a gazillion lots of anti feats, all carried by vast cold rule.
 
Livinmeme said:
No, the true immortal real is literally just above the hierarchy of the planes, it is a big point during the MC transformation to true immortal. Even then I disagree with anything beyond multiversal because there is a gazillion lots of anti feats, all carried by vast cold rule.
Click to expand...
What about these scans the OP posted at the end?
"Those are the planes of Qi, Soul, and Fate. And the spaces where those Qi, Soul, and Fate overlap are called the True Immortal Realm."
Click to expand...
"Kukuk... Except for the Astral Realm, the rest are merely pseudo-dimensions clinging to each plane. It is the same for the Underworld. Only the planes of Qi, Soul, and Fate are absolute. The Immortal Plane does not truly exist, but it is roughly recognized for its absoluteness as it is the intersection of the three planes."
Click to expand...
Countless True Immortals, upon reaching True Immortality and seizing the Plane of Fate, believe they have seized fate, but that is a misunderstanding.

All True Immortals ultimately remain beneath fate.

They may have grasped part of the Plane of Fate in their hands, but they can never be free from the flow of attraction force that courses through the entire world.
Click to expand...
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
What about these scans the OP posted at the end?
Click to expand...
I feel like it’s good to note that the highest points of the planes within the saha world ≠ to the planes outside the saha world. The ones outside the saha world are pretty explicitly equal to or above the ti realm, which undifferentiates the hierarchy of lower planes.
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Low 1-A for the Plane of Qi is fine. I don't see sufficient evidence to justify an additional layer between the Plane of Fate and the Plane of Soul. While the Plane of Fate is clearly portrayed as "higher" than the others, the evidence I see alone is not enough to quantify it as an additional 1-A layer.

The True Immortal Realm would be another layer beyond that, but I don't see anything supporting High 1-A.

From my understanding, the Planes of Fate, Soul, and Qi are themselves composed of multiple planes, with the highest points of those structures intersecting at the True Immortal Realm. If that interpretation is correct, then True Immortals are essentially removing the "lower" aspects of these planes from themselves while remaining subject to the highest aspects. As a result, they do not actually transcend the hierarchical framework formed by the planes themselves; they simply occupy its apex.

That distinction is important because sitting at the top of a hierarchy is not the same thing as operating under an entirely different framework, which is generally what High 1-A requires.
Click to expand...
It can be said that the highest planes of qi soul fate and the True Immortal Realm operate on a different higher “quality” compared to the lower planes’s hierarchy, which can qualify for h1a iirc.

This is shown by the fact that the entirety of the hierarchy corresponding to the Saha World/ (the lower planes) are equally said to coexist and be like a painting in reference to the True Immortal Realm.

It would be pretty weird to say they are apart of the same hierarchy, as the difference between planes within the saha world is very distinctly different compared to the difference between the Saha World and the True Immortal Realm.
 
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ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Low 1-A for the Plane of Qi is fine. I don't see sufficient evidence to justify an additional layer between the Plane of Fate and the Plane of Soul. While the Plane of Fate is clearly portrayed as "higher" than the others, the evidence I see alone is not enough to quantify it as an additional 1-A layer.

The True Immortal Realm would be another layer beyond that, but I don't see anything supporting High 1-A.

From my understanding, the Planes of Fate, Soul, and Qi are themselves composed of multiple planes, with the highest points of those structures intersecting at the True Immortal Realm. If that interpretation is correct, then True Immortals are essentially removing the "lower" aspects of these planes from themselves while remaining subject to the highest aspects. As a result, they do not actually transcend the hierarchical framework formed by the planes themselves; they simply occupy its apex.

That distinction is important because sitting at the top of a hierarchy is not the same thing as operating under an entirely different framework, which is generally what High 1-A requires.
Click to expand...
Also, about the plane of fate, what more would be needed in order to establish a layer into 1-A?
 
Tyrkanzyaka said:
It can be said that the highest planes of qi soul fate and the True Immortal Realm operate on a different higher “quality” compared to the lower planes’s hierarchy, which can qualify for h1a iirc.

This is shown by the fact that the entirety of the hierarchy corresponding to the Saha World/ (the lower planes) are equally said to coexist and be like a painting in reference to the True Immortal Realm.

It would be pretty weird to say they are apart of the same hierarchy, as the difference between planes within the saha world is very distinctly different compared to the difference between the Saha World and the True Immortal Realm.
Click to expand...
Every layer of 1-A is qualitatively superior to the last compared to the rest of the Hierarchy. This would suit the description of the True Immortal Realm as well.

It being a different type of transcendence does not make it a Meta-Qualitive one.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Every layer of 1-A is qualitatively superior to the last compared to the rest of the Hierarchy. This would suit the description of the True Immortal Realm as well.

It being a different type of transcendence does not make it a Meta-Qualitive one.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t just have qs over the previous plane, it undifferentiates the lower and higher planes viewing them all as equally fictional.
 
Tyrkanzyaka said:
It doesn’t just have qs over the previous plane, it undifferentiates the lower and higher planes viewing them all as equally fictional.
Click to expand...
I understand that, but it's still within the same framework, just a higher quality.

A high qualitative reality will naturally view lower realities as equally fictional.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
I understand that, but it's still within the same framework, just a higher quality.

A high qualitative reality will naturally view lower realities as equally fictional.
Click to expand...
It quite explicitly isn’t within the same framework, hence the need to remove all qualities corresponding to the planes.
The framework itself is contained within the “painting”.

Also, copying an explanation from someone else, from the perspective of TI’s, the difference between 1-A and non 1-A is 0, therefore, the difference between any and all possible 1-A layers should also be 0.

1-A layers can also be analogized to dimensions, if you have r>f where there is no difference between higher and lower dimensions since they are equally fictional, you would be 1-A, with the same logic applied to 1-A layers, you would be High 1-A.
 
Tyrkanzyaka said:
It quite explicitly isn’t within the same framework, hence the need to remove all qualities corresponding to the planes.
The framework itself is contained within the “painting”.
Click to expand...
Yet it's still bound by the highest planes of the qualities they removed, so clearly it didn't remove all qualities and is still bound by that framework.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Low 1-A for the Plane of Qi is fine. I don't see sufficient evidence to justify an additional layer between the Plane of Fate and the Plane of Soul. While the Plane of Fate is clearly portrayed as "higher" than the others, the evidence I see alone is not enough to quantify it as an additional 1-A layer.
Click to expand...
How about this
To affect the incarnation of a True Immortal that resides in the Plane of Fate, it requires ascending or using a fate-level ability like an Immortal Art. In the same way, if a spirit is raised, it wouldn't be affected by a curse from the Plane of Qi and Soul.
--- authors-qa-5
Q: Zhengli said mortal level curses are annoying but alright if one raises their mind to the plane of fate. Is a curse that has been raised to the plane of fate misfortune itself? I think misfortune would work on a True Immortal.

A: That is misfortune.
Click to expand...
--- 268
Hong Fan had described my curse as a poison.

And Zhengli said that if the spirit is raised to the plane of Fate, the curse wouldn't affect it.

That means a curse raised to the level of fate will work, and the calamity of the Extinguishing Divine Tribulating Heavens Technique is a kind of fate-level curse.

And, it's a poison affecting fate.
Click to expand...
 
Kavliaris said:
How about this
To affect the incarnation of a True Immortal that resides in the Plane of Fate, it requires ascending or using a fate-level ability like an Immortal Art. In the same way, if a spirit is raised, it wouldn't be affected by a curse from the Plane of Qi and Soul.
Click to expand...
This can be resistance, but it wouldn't be sufficient evidence.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Yet it's still bound by the highest planes of the qualities they removed, so clearly it didn't remove all qualities and is still bound by that framework.
Click to expand...
Imagine for a sec, that I was arguing for a 1-A realm. The 1-A realm has its own higher version of spacetime. Would you say that it’s still bound by the framework of dimensionality therefore it isn’t 1-A? Or would you say it isn’t an antifeat since “the framework of dimensionality” it operates on is fundamentally superior to the lower framework? The same thing applies here. It isn’t bound by the lower framework of planes. It operates on a different, higher, framework of planes. Also, my point about undifferentiation still stands.
 
Tyrkanzyaka said:
Imagine for a sec, that I was arguing for a 1-A realm. The 1-A realm has its own higher version of spacetime. Would you say that it’s still bound by the framework of dimensionality therefore it isn’t 1-A? Or would you say it isn’t an antifeat since “the framework of dimensionality” it operates on is fundamentally superior to the lower framework? The same thing applies here. It isn’t bound by the lower framework of planes. It operates on a different, higher, framework of planws.
Click to expand...
No, but dimensions are quantitative, not qualitative.

I get what you're trying to say, believe me, I do, but I would prefer having more solid evidence for High 1-A than what is currently presented. That's just my own feelings on the matter.

Other staff may have different opinions, but for me, things seem to cap out at 2 Layers into 1-A.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
This can be resistance, but it wouldn't be sufficient evidence.
Click to expand...
its hard to visualize because Immortal Cultivation System gave aid to reach Plane of Fate as early as qi refining

well, if we crawl from material world, the principle and ontological structure clearly distinct and separated here.
--- 546
Descending from the Plane of Fate, past the Plane of Soul, and into the Plane of Qi where the Sun and Moon Heavenly Domain lies, I organize the power structure of Mount Sumeru in my mind, along with essential terminology and common knowledge necessary for a True Immortal.
Click to expand...
--- 650
My mind continues to clear.

The mind continues to clear endlessly, passing through the time of a snap of a finger (彈指) and entering the time of a fleeting instant (刹那).

Now, simply by clearing the mind, it feels as if the principles of the world, and the planes of Qi, Soul, Fate, and Immortality are being separated.

This is the mental domain of an ordinary Upper Immortal.
Click to expand...
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
No, but dimensions are quantitative, not qualitative.

I get what you're trying to say, believe me, I do, but I would prefer having more solid evidence for High 1-A than what is currently presented. That's just my own feelings on the matter.

Other staff may have different opinions, but for me, things seem to cap out at 2 Layers into 1-A.
Click to expand...
The dimension stuff is just an analogy for 1-A layers. Thanks for the input. Though for the record, if you’re wondering, i’m not pulling this out of nowhere, as there’s already a precedent of character(s) being accepted for High 1-A through the same logic.

Anyways, would this help with +1 layer plane of fate? Something something it being a higher, more abstract plane where things exist in symbolic forms. (+ the other scans of things of lower planes materializations that are anchored by these higher truths within the plane of fate, and being impossible to interact with through lower planes.)
She nods confidently and conjures an illusion in the void.

It is a three-dimensional model of the stellar systems they currently reside in.

There are a total of four existing stellar systems, with a fifth one steadily being prepared to be created.

“For convenience, I’ll refer to the stellar systems the Crystal Glass Being has created as the [Crystal Glass Realm]. This model perfectly replicates the vast majority of the attraction force, qi, soul, and fate within the Crystal Glass Realm, so pay close attention.”

Woo-wooooong!

As Yeo Hwi gestures, the three-dimensional model begins to change.

In an instant, it shifts into something strange, shrouded in a cloud of dust.

“If what you saw before was the Crystal Glass Realm on the Plane of Qi, this is the Crystal Glass Realm on the Plane of Soul. The brightest light in the center of this dust cloud is the Crystal Glass Being. Right now, the Crystal Glass Realm is entirely under the Crystal Glass Being’s will, and that will has become attraction force, preventing any of us from leaving the Crystal Glass Realm.”

“…It’s Teacher’s madness.”

Ham Jin lets out a murmur.

The current Seo Eun-hyun is consumed by madness, scattering Filling the Heavens Governing View across the entire Crystal Glass Realm.

No one can reach the Integration stage or higher.

And no one can escape beyond the Crystal Realm—beyond the distant spacetime of emptiness.

By adding his attraction force into Filling the Heavens Governing View, Seo Eun-hyun has created a powerful barrier that effectively seals the entire Crystal Glass Realm.

“He mutters about how no one understands him…yet at the same time, he doesn’t want anyone to leave him. This contradiction in Teacher’s heart and his madness have amplified to its peak, becoming this barrier.”

“That’s right. And that’s not all. Look.”

Yeo Hwi points somewhere with her finger.

On the three-dimensional model representing the Plane of Soul, four other clumps of light ripple besides Seo Eun-hyun.

“Those four lights. They are the four fixed stars the Crystall Glass Being created so far. Do you see them?”

Ham Jin furrows his brows.

He can see them clearly.

Each of the four stars exhibits a distinct flow, all of which connects to the light that is Seo Eun-hyun at the center, influencing him in some way.

“The fixed stars…are influencing Teacher…?”

“That’s right. Now then…shall we move on to the next stage?”

Woo-wooong!

Yeo Hwi moves her hand, and the Plane of Fate of the Crystal Glass Realm appears in the three-dimensional model.

In the space overflowing with light, several symbols exist.

[Candle flame that is the merging of Glass True Fire and Aurora].

Surrounding it are the symbols of the countless planets and star veins.

Lastly, there are the symbols of [snakes] tightly coiling around the star veins.
— Chapter 579
Click to expand...
 
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Tyrkanzyaka said:
Anyways, would this help with +1 layer plane of fate? Something something it being a higher, more abstract plane where things exist in symbolic forms. (+ the other scans of things of lower planes materializations that are anchored by these higher truths within the plane of fate, and being impossible to interact with through lower planes.)
Click to expand...
Symbols are sort of like Platonic Concepts, right? Pairing this with the salt description, I suppose it's fine.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
I get what you're trying to say, believe me, I do, but I would prefer having more solid evidence for High 1-A than what is currently presented. That's just my own feelings on the matter.
Click to expand...
Regarding this, could you give examples on what more solid evidence entail? I have a lot of scans but I have no clue on if they’re relevant or not.
 
Livinmeme said:
No, the true immortal real is literally just above the hierarchy of the planes, it is a big point during the MC transformation to true immortal. Even then I disagree with anything beyond multiversal because there is a gazillion lots of anti feats, all carried by vast cold rule.
Click to expand...

Tyrkanzyaka said that true immortal realms are just higher on a planes and view lower realms on the same planes as fiction. As I said before, this is not enough to reach High 1-A. If TI realms were truly beyond planes, viewing both the planes and the material world as fiction without distinguishing the ontological difference between them, then it would be High 1-A.
 
Devourer1 said:
Tyrkanzyaka said that true immortal realms are just higher on a planes and view lower realms on the same planes as fiction. As I said before, this is not enough to reach High 1-A. If TI realms were truly beyond planes, viewing both the planes and the material world as fiction without distinguishing the ontological difference between them, then it would be High 1-A.
Click to expand...
Which the true immortal realm does, it equally views the Saha world planes and everything below as fictional without distinguishing them hence every single analogy of the true immortal realm’s superiority always lumps all of the lower planes together and describes their inferiority in singular ways (the 3 planes being the painting, or inside a videogame), or the fact that the lower planes are said to coexist (meaning they are on the same level) within the true immortal realm (as the painting).
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Yeah
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, forgot to include this scan, the world, which is the 3 planes, is just the dream of true immortals. I think this helps?

“In short, being able to control attraction force means being able to move the hearts of True Immortals. The world is ultimately nothing more than a dream woven by True Immortals. We are merely their toys, clowns performing on their stage. Therefore, our own hearts are ultimately meaningless. The only thing that holds meaning is…the heart of the being that dreams.”
— Chapter 523
Click to expand...
 
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