Lookism Discussion Thread

[CatLover313]

I mean, yeah, it's Calc-Stacking... When you're calculating. Here, technically, we're just scaling Logan and Jay to 69.4 m/s.

Perhaps what could be applied is that their reaction speed scales based on Kali Arnis's attack speed.

Oh yeah, not saying Jay Kali Arnis speed scaling to Logan is calc-stacking (I meant moreso using it for calculations). Not against scaling Logan’s Reaction speed to it, but also not for it (he really was just a punching bag except for that one block).

 

[Sigmagoon14]

As far as I know, it couldn't be applied to calculations, but I think it should scale to Jay, Logan, and those comparable to or better than them. Incidentally, Akira's movement speed feat should also be scalable to the others.

So where does Akira's movement speed fall under? 61.6 m/s?(since he was able to speed blitz an athlete) Or Superhuman tier?

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Note: I will be posting this before going to bed so I'll be able to reply bare minimum 10 hours if anyone responds to this

So before I go to bed, I've been rereading lookism recently for the 100 time (making notes on mastery, signature moves and such) and I was wondering if somebody could lay out the arguments for CQC being a multiplier to stats (I've read the CRT, I've also read Manager Kim and lookism)

I'll probably eventually reread both series and compile my thoughts (might even make a CRT tbh) since currently my reasoning will probably seem like an assumption so please do keep that in mind that I will eventually write out an indepth explanation of my thoughts with ciations,
With that out of the way, contrervisal opinion but I don't think CQC is a multiplier, or at least not a multiplier to base (to clarify the current view of CQC is that its a 3x to base, so if base is 1 CQC is 3, and if base increases to 2, CQC increases to 6, in my view intially unlocking CQC has an increase to base but eventually CQC just becomes your full base power)

I'll try to explain using an example from lookism, for eg signature moves get treated like special moves above the person's base (eg base Taesoo strenght punch < Ultimate fist taesoo and given the strenght differece, going from not being able to even hit your opponent to one shooting them you can kind of view it as a multiplier/massive linear increase similar to CQC) however they only get treated like special moves because the fighters can only use them as such, but the story multiple times states with signature moves that with training and proper endurance they can be used multiple times (both Taesoo and Jageyon state that they can't use ultimate fist/death kick at full power more than once per day, compare that to Pacheon or other top tiers who can spam their signature move, which if you think about it logically it makes sense, a signature move is just a normal move with mastery added to it, once you get strong enough you should be able to use it the same as a normal move or the same as normal mastery, with the eventual end goal being that the signature moves becomes like a normal move, think of the difference between Jake and Gap, Jake uses conviction like a special move, Gap uses conviction like a normal move)

The reason I bring this up is because the same difference is true for how CQC is portrayed in lookism compared to manager Kim, in lookism it gets used as a special move that amps the person's base (mainly Warren, but we have seen Johan can also amp himself with it)

However if you go over to manager Kim, for eg the fight against manager Nam, there CQC is treated less like a special move/technique similar to a signature move from lookism, but more like a conventional martial art that is constantly 'on' (not sure how to word this but its not something they activate) both Nam and Jincheol fight using CQC but neither of them need to take up a stance, I can probably find more examples of this

In manager Kim the unique CQC styles (like knife, sword, steel thread, gun) CQC are the ones that get treated the same way as CQC from looksim from what I have observed, war mode is something that Jincheol has to activate on his own but otherwise his base CQC seems to be constantly on, MK is the same way with his 3 unique CQC styles, though from lookism we can infer that he can chose not to use it

To further support this in HFW we saw Warren use partial CQC and he stated that preventing someone from using CQC by preventing them from getting into the right stance only works on beginners, implying that with sufficient skill an CQC practitioner can use CQC without needing a stance, which is what we see in Manager Kim, as I said I'll reread the whole series and try to compile as many examples as I can possibly find

To tldr my thoughts, I think at least for the military dad trio, their CQC is not a multiplier to base but rather their base full power, as we saw against manager Nam that Jincheol had his CQC constantly on (manager Nam stated Jincheol was also fighting using CQC and that his range was much larger)

We also see that when Warren first uses his unique CQC (CQC + Jeet kune do) against manager Kim and later against Jerry, his sleeves tear and his arms start bleeding, however by the time HFW takes place Warren can not only spam it with no recoil he can even use a partial version of it

We see something similar in MK where ares manager Nam using Jincheol's war mode is kind of in the middle, where its not quite a burst special move but its also not quite a normal move as by the time he defeats his opponent he passes out from the strain of using it

We also see in lookism that the stronger a person's base is the larger the CQC becomes and the more rings it gains, 2A Warren only had a single 3ft circle, 1A Warren post king hunt had 3 (and even 5 in one panel!) and HFW Warren can spam 4 circle unique CQC and seemingly even use 5 rings at will, which would be weird if CQC is meant to be a multiplier to base, because it also clearly reflects how powerful the person using it is (based on the range and number of rings)

There is a very clear progression that as the person's base power increases their CQC profiency (range of their CQC and how much they can use it as well as how easily they can use it indicated by the size and number of rings and the strain from using it) increases, especially now with partial CQC, I wouldn't be surpised if EOS Warren's final power up is going to be being able to use CQC nonstop with no stance similar to how Manager Kim does

As I said I'll eventually make a post with WAY more evidence, but from all the times I've read both lookism and manager Kim, I don't understand why we are treating CQC like a kaioken multiplier, Ik about the statments from MK but you can just as easily intepret it as a permanent ginormous increase to base rather than a constant multiplier (basically changing the stance gives a permanent increase to your base power across the board assuming you can master using it with no stance)

Especially since we already have a calc for S2 white knight Manager Kim and if we use the 3x logic that would mean base MK is slower than the Busan kings

Anyhow, I apologize if this ends up sounding stupid or is a bad/hot/controversial take QwQ

Good night(or ig good day lol) yall :3

 

[Pyro9278]

So where does Akira's movement speed fall under? 61.6 m/s?(since he was able to speed blitz an athlete) Or Superhuman tier?

It should currently scale to Subsonic (75.62 m/s)

 

[Pyro9278]

Especially since we already have a calc for S2 white knight Manager Kim and if we use the 3x logic that would mean base MK is slower than the Busan kings

All this because you think that MK's calculation is not relative and could not give hypersonic results

Anyway, you're overcomplicating things. We're not suggesting that PTJ literally specified an exact strength multiplier as if this were DB; it's simply a quantifiable estimate of how strong one should be. CQC is more of a martial art than an actionable skill, but at the same time, it shouldn't be considered something passive where you constantly react at such speed (especially since most people who use it hold back)

 

[CatLover313]

Is a CGD actually going to be made for the Church feat? Kind of the reason why I haven't made the CRT for it ngl.

 

[Pyro9278]

Is a CGD actually going to be made for the Church feat? Kind of the reason why I haven't made the CRT for it ngl.

I don't think anyone will start a thread about CGMs, and since no one's showing up in the discussion thread to debate it, yeah, you're free to make a CRT thread.

I just have one question. Are we going to assume that James Lee and Kitae are the only ones that scale? Besides, obviously, Gap and Shingen in their prime.

 

[CatLover313]

I don't think anyone will start a thread about CGMs, and since no one's showing up in the discussion thread to debate it, yeah, you're free to make a CRT thread.

I just have one question. Are we going to assume that James Lee and Kitae are the only ones that scale? Besides, obviously, Gap and Shingen in their prime.

Those 4 and probs Path Jinyoung + UI Lil Daniel (And by connection, UI PB Daniel who Lil daniel was copying) who could "seemingly" hurt Kitae when he's using Path. Also, only going to stick with James Lee and Kitae with Paths because the feat was done when they were using Paths.

 

[Pyro9278]

Those 4 and probs Path Jinyoung + UI Lil Daniel (And by connection, UI PB Daniel who Lil daniel was copying) who could "seemingly" hurt Kitae when he's using Path. Also, only going to stick with James Lee and Kitae with Paths because the feat was done when they were using Paths.

Well, if Daniel UI scales, then I think Gun TUI should too (plus, for some reason, Daniel UI's durability automatically becomes High 8-C without any variable). So it would be:

High 8-C (Old Gap): Lethargic Shingen, Shintaro, Lil Daniel (Durability), Kitae and James (Base), Tom Lee, Jinyoung, Gun, Goo, Johan, Jake (Reduces his value with Conviction), Jinrang (future profile), and basically the entire Gapryong Kim band in his prime form.

High 8-C (James/Kitae): Both Daniel UI, Jinyoung Path, Gapryong, and Prime Shingen.

 

[Pyro9278]

Now that I think about it, Shingen will reach 8-B

 

[CatLover313]

Well, if Daniel UI scales, then I think Gun TUI should too (plus, for some reason, Daniel UI's durability automatically becomes High 8-C without any variable). So it would be:

High 8-C (Old Gap): Lethargic Shingen, Lil Daniel (Durability), Kitae and James (Base), Tom Lee, Jinyoung, Gun, Johan, Jake (Reduces his value with Conviction), Jinrang (future profile), and basically the entire Gapryong Kim band in his prime form.

High 8-C (James/Kitae): Both Daniel UI, Jinyoung Path, Gapryong, and Prime Shingen

Technically Gun TUI already scales higher though doesn't it? (6.66 Tons of TNT due to 2.22 * 3 AP/Durability multiplier). That's why I didn't really include him because it's not like it's needed for him due to his higher stats when he's in a hypothetically healthy TUI state.

 

[Pyro9278]

Technically Gun TUI already scales higher though doesn't it? (6.66 Tons of TNT due to 2.22 * 3 AP/Durability multiplier). That's why I didn't really include him because it's not like it's needed for him due to his higher stats when he's in a hypothetically healthy TUI state.

True, I only mentioned it because technically it scales, although being at a higher value doesn't matter.

 

[CatLover313]

True, I only mentioned it because technically it scales, although being at a higher value doesn't matter.

I'll make the CRT in two days so if there's anyone that wants to make the CGD, they'll know that I plan on making a CRT soon (plus, it'll be 1 week since the calc was accepted)

 

[Sigmagoon14]

Technically Gun TUI already scales higher though doesn't it? (6.66 Tons of TNT due to 2.22 * 3 AP/Durability multiplier). That's why I didn't really include him because it's not like it's needed for him due to his higher stats when he's in a hypothetically healthy TUI state.

But is Gun's multiplier applicable to any other character or just limited to his Healthy TUI?

 

[Pyro9278]

But is Gun's multiplier applicable to any other character or just limited to his Healthy TUI?

The multiplier applies to Yamazaki Ultra Instinct, that is, to Gun and Shingen.

 

[CatLover313]

But is Gun's multiplier applicable to any other character or just limited to his Healthy TUI?

I'd say limited as the Gun in HFG after the Johan fight was so weak, even Goo called him out on it. Kind of why I made the LS thread for the God Tier revision. Unless you mean if the multiplier is viable to Shingen, which I believe it should be too.

 

[Powerscalingcat]

All this because you think that MK's calculation is not relative and could not give hypersonic results

What do you mean can you elaborate I don't understand that part sorry :c

Anyway, you're overcomplicating things. We're not suggesting that PTJ literally specified an exact strength multiplier as if this were DB; it's simply a quantifiable estimate of how strong one should be. CQC is more of a martial art than an actionable skill, but at the same time, it shouldn't be considered something passive where you constantly react at such speed (especially since most people who use it hold back)

The Kaioken thing was a joke, though fair enough that CQC can be both a martial art and amp

My point was though for eg that for the 3x Goo speed feat we are assuming Jincheol didn't use his CQC or CQC war mode on Goo which fair enough, but we are directly told he used his CQC on manager Nam, and I am pretty sure he used war mode because later on that's the CQC that manager Nam is interested in learning (plus he had normal CQC already, and also Jincheol's war mode literally looks identical to normal CQC apart from the occasional spartan panels) and even if we assume Jincheol just used normal CQC against Nam, correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't that mean that he used more power (3x to be exact) against BOS Manager Nam than he did against Goo, no?

You could argue that BOS Nam is just THAT strong but Jincheol was basically asleep for half the fight and he STILL instilled the fear of God into Manager Nam, meanwhile with Goo he actively deemed Goo a threat multiple times and even used a gun against him and took his clothes off (a secret technique he learned from Yujiiro Hanma- I mean Tom Lee the naked genius) so by all means he was taking Goo more seriously, I know we didn't see Jincheol use war mode or CQC against Goo however it feels weird that Jincheol had it on against manager Nam (which I would like to point out Nam only knew Jincheol was using CQC because he is a fellow CQC user otherwise there would have been no indication so it does imo support my proposal that CQC is constantly on)

I do think Jincheol definitely held back against Goo but I don't think it was to a 3x fold extent, I'll need to gather more evidence and citation so off I go rereading for the 100000th time

Edit: Upon further rereading I am pretty sure Jincheol used at least war mode phase 1 against Goo as phase 1 is used like a martial art and he had already activated it against Hansu, used it on some fodder assassin and then ran into Goo immediately after killing them, we know Jincheol was intially in a hurry to contain 0% Hansu and we literally saw that he intially IMMEDIATELY started swinging for the fences against Goo before he could finish his sentence, and he only started acting like his regular self after Goo piqued his interest, given that Jincheol had no issue using war mode against some fodder assassins (ans there is no implication he turned it off or anything because why would he? He was in a hurry to find and subdue 0% personality patch Hansu who was on the loose) imo it makes no sense that we were shown Jincheol activating phase 1 against Hansu until Hansu ran out of the building and then Jincheol NEVER turned it on again for the rest of the arc even though he intially in a hurry to subdue Hansu, and we have also been shown that Jincheol has used regular CQC on the likes of manager Nam who he only took seriously towards the end of their fight but never acknowledged as a threat

I guess what I am trying to say is that the more I read and learn about MK and Lookism the more I lean towards disagreeing with the 3x speed thing, I do think Jincheol definitely held back as did Goo, but I don't think it was to the point of 3x, as he did acknowledged Goo as a threat and Goo also acknowledged him as monsterously strong etc

 

[Sigmagoon14]

rereading I am pretty sure Jincheol used at least war mode phase 1 against Goo as phase 1 is used like a martial art and he had already activated it against Hansu, used it on some fodder assassin and then ran into Goo immediately after killing them,

That's a very vague assumption cause only evidence I see is his Orange Aura which is quite normal even in his base he has Orange Aura

given that Jincheol had no issue using war mode against some fodder assassins (ans there is no implication he turned it off or anything because why would he? He was in a hurry to find and subdue 0% personality patch Hansu who was on the loose)

Again Jincheol didn't used War Mode against Fodders, Fodders were just happened to be there..When he used it against Hansu and his ahh was not in Hurry cause he was still 4 floors above and yet he was marching down, even after calling Hansu a Nuke (buddy didn't cared about Normal Citizens)

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

God damn it has been actual years since we seen the girls of J-High. Crystal hasn't been seen since the funeral and who knows where Mia and Zoe are.

 

[Powerscalingcat]

That's a very vague assumption cause only evidence I see is his Orange Aura which is quite normal even in his base he has Orange Aura

Again Jincheol didn't used War Mode against Fodders, Fodders were just happened to be there..When he used it against Hansu and his ahh was not in Hurry cause he was still 4 floors above and yet he was marching down, even after calling Hansu a Nuke (buddy didn't cared about Normal Citizens)

Even if we ignore literally all of that we still have Nam as a reference point who Jinchel took seriously but never deemed a threat and used his CQC against, he deemed Goo a threat and treated him way more seriously that alone should be proof that Jincheol bare minimum used base CQC against Goo which is what has the 3x mult

 

[Mercury009]

God damn it has been actual years since we seen the girls of J-High. Crystal hasn't been seen since the funeral and who knows where Mia and Zoe are.

He lowkey might have forgotten about their existence altogether

 

[Sigmagoon14]

Even if we ignore literally all of that we still have Nam as a reference point who Jinchel took seriously but never deemed a threat and used his CQC against, he deemed Goo a threat and treated him way more seriously that alone should be proof that Jincheol bare minimum used base CQC against Goo which is what has the 3x mult

Again, doesn't really prove anything, because a sleepy Jincheol was overwhelming Nam by just reflecting his attacks. It was so bad he had to pull a karambit on Jincheol, then he woke up. So him using CQC when he woke up doesn't really add up to say he saw Nam as a threat. The only implication, I believe, is an act of intimidation, nothing more than that, because if we go by your scaling then REMS Jincheol would scale higher than Base, War Mode, and CQC Jincheol, because he didn't use any type of War Mode or CQC to reflect Nam's strikes.

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Again, doesn't really prove anything, because a sleepy Jincheol was overwhelming Nam by just reflecting his attacks. It was so bad he had to pull a karambit on Jincheol, then he woke up. So him using CQC when he woke up doesn't really add up to say he saw Nam as a threat. The only implication, I believe, is an act of intimidation, nothing more than that, because if we go by your scaling then REMS Jincheol would scale higher than Base, War Mode, and CQC Jincheol, because he didn't use any type of War Mode or CQC to reflect Nam's strikes.

You misunderstood my point, I am saying the opposite, that if Jincheol is willing to use CQC on manager nam who as you explained he does NOT view as a threat (however he DID literally tell Nam that he was going to take him seriously) then Jincheol would absolutely use CQC against Goo who he actively acknowledged as a threat

Even if we go with what you said that Jincheol only used CQC against Nam as a form of intimidation (even though again he did say he was going to take Nam seriously I can send the panel) then that's ironically even more reason that he would use it against Goo who he deems an actual threat, and was recruitment-lusted against(lmao) because it means Jincheol is pretty liberal with his use of CQC if he is willing to use it on someone he doesn't deem a threat(Nam) purely to aura farm

It doesn't matter the reason, the fact that Nam made Jincheol use CQC for literally anything even just indimiation/aura farming despite how little effort Jincheol was putting into the fight (like literally being asleep mid fight lol) then he would absolutely use CQC against Goo who he deemed a threat, used a gun against (something he didn't use against Nam, and he used a Gun on goo PRIOR to deeming him a threat) and REALLY wanted to recruit him

And also I don't see any issue with Jincheol not turning off war mode after Hansu left the building, Jinchel using it on fodders doesn't mean they actually scale to it, given that the next time we see Jinchel he is covered in blood from head to toe and the assassins are nowhere to be seen, his pose against Goo is also almost identical as the one he makes when he is shown going into war mode, as well as the yellow aura and glowing eyes etc, plus the fact that at the start he IMMEDIATELY went in to try and knock out Goo

You can't just keep saying I am assuming when literally everything in the story suggests that Jinchel either took Goo seriously enough to use war mode or was already using war mode against him, just because there isn't a name tag box doesn't mean he didn't, same way we have seen goo use moonlight phase 1 in 1A without it being named or Kitae using his path in Busan before it was officially revealed in HFW etc

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Also somewhat off topic but what is with the recent Pacheon glaze

Don't get me wrong Pacheon is one of my favorite villains in lookism of all time (even though I hated him being a swordsman because him having DBT and being a swordsman have 0 relation so it really feels like PTJ gave him DBT + being a swordsman so he can serve as a jobber for Daniel, Jake/Samuel/Jageyon AND Goo rather than it being a fighting style that actually makes sense for him, I wouldn't have minded his fight against Goo if he just uses his hands as blades rather than the hwarang and he was just holding back tremendously or something idk I just don't like Pacheon using a sword while his whole thing is ENDURANCE)

That rant aside I have legit seen people unrionically claim Pacheon has more endurance than Prime Shingen AND Path Kitae COMBINED

And that he would one shot UI Perfect Daniel

MF will look you dead in the eyes and be like 'yeah I think Pacheon can survive a prime Gap conviction punch' I feel like people who say that don't understand that DBT only works if you are actually alive to regenerate

Which given how a half dead Jake nearly sent him to meet Gap, a full power conviction punch from prime Gap would legit vaporize him

Like why does everyone suddenly think Pacheon can low diff solo the entire fidt gang in their prime what happened?!

 

[Sigmagoon14]

You misunderstood my point, I am saying the opposite, that if Jincheol is willing to use CQC on manager nam who as you explained he does NOT view as a threat (however he DID literally tell Nam that he was going to take him seriously) then Jincheol would absolutely use CQC against Goo who he actively acknowledged as a threat

Again, an act of intimidation doesn't really have anything to do with him using CQC or War Mode against Goo unless it's implied.

Even if we go with what you said that Jincheol only used CQC against Nam as a form of intimidation (even though again he did say he was going to take Nam seriously I can send the panel) then that's ironically even more reason that he would use it against Goo who he deems an actual threat, and was recruitment-lusted against(lmao) because it means Jincheol is pretty liberal with his use of CQC if he is willing to use it on someone he doesn't deem a threat(Nam) purely to aura farm

Yeah, because he wanted to intimidate Nam. Nam was in his own clouds of ego during that arc, but the moment he saw Jincheol's CQC radius his ego was shattered. So yeah, him taking him seriously doesn't mean he has used any kind of thing against Goo unless it's implied, because it's unreliable, because Goo and Nam were different cases. He knew Goo was special the moment his gun was sliced to the fact he glazed him.

And also I don't see any issue with Jincheol not turning off war mode after Hansu left the building, Jinchel using it on fodders doesn't mean they actually scale to it, given that the next time we see Jinchel he is covered in blood from head to toe and the assassins are nowhere to be seen, his pose against Goo is also almost identical as the one he makes when he is shown going into war mode, as well as the yellow aura and glowing eyes etc, plus the fact that at the start he IMMEDIATELY went in to try and knock out Goo

Again, visual scaling isn't really a good way to determine, because in the same arc, Tom, who went against K Group goons, had red glowing eyes and red aura. By the way, this was Hair Down Tom. He had the same red glowing eyes he had against King and Closer. So if we go by your visual scaling of glowing eyes and aura, K Group leader made Tom use more Athan 50% of his power like he was against Closer and King, but Tom had his hair down and he was playing with K Group leader, meaning he didn't even go out in his less than 50% form. That's why I said the aura of strikes or glowing eyes or any kind of visual scaling isn't really a good way to determine character scaling.

You can't just keep saying I am assuming when literally everything in the story suggests that Jinchel either took Goo seriously enough to use war mode or was already using war mode against him, just because there isn't a name tag box doesn't mean he didn't, same way we have seen goo use moonlight phase 1 in 1A without it being named or Kitae using his path in Busan before it was officially revealed in HFW etc

Brochaco, you answered your own question

Techniques and Path which were yet to be revealed during that time vs War Mode which was already revealed 5 chapters ago
Also I don't think we had any instances where War Mode wasn't written out or used. The only time I think is during Golden Gate, since he directly went into Phase 2, so I thought he must have been using Phase 1 the entire time, but Black Market arc solved that confusion that he doesn't need to go through Phase 1 to use Phase 2
And War Mode is literally Big 3 of techniques in SMK in S1. OG CQC + White Night, Personality Patch, and War Mode were always written out whenever they were used, if I remember correctly.


Cause that's why I said assuming that he used War Mode is pretty vague assumption

 

[Sigmagoon14]

Also somewhat off topic but what is with the recent Pacheon glaze

Don't get me wrong Pacheon is one of my favorite villains in lookism of all time (even though I hated him being a swordsman because him having DBT and being a swordsman have 0 relation so it really feels like PTJ gave him DBT + being a swordsman so he can serve as a jobber for Daniel, Jake/Samuel/Jageyon AND Goo rather than it being a fighting style that actually makes sense for him, I wouldn't have minded his fight against Goo if he just uses his hands as blades rather than the hwarang and he was just holding back tremendously or something idk I just don't like Pacheon using a sword while his whole thing is ENDURANCE)

That rant aside I have legit seen people unrionically claim Pacheon has more endurance than Prime Shingen AND Path Kitae COMBINED

And that he would one shot UI Perfect Daniel

MF will look you dead in the eyes and be like 'yeah I think Pacheon can survive a prime Gap conviction punch' I feel like people who say that don't understand that DBT only works if you are actually alive to regenerate

Which given how a half dead Jake nearly sent him to meet Gap, a full power conviction punch from prime Gap would legit vaporize him

Like why does everyone suddenly think Pacheon can low diff solo the entire fidt gang in their prime what happened?!

Paecheon when Prime Gap accidentally uses Conviction Punch (his Fraud ahh thought it would on same level As Jake's Conviction Punch)

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Again, an act of intimidation doesn't really have anything to do with him using CQC or War Mode against Goo unless it's implied.

Yeah, because he wanted to intimidate Nam. Nam was in his own clouds of ego during that arc, but the moment he saw Jincheol's CQC radius his ego was shattered. So yeah, him taking him seriously doesn't mean he has used any kind of thing against Goo unless it's implied, because it's unreliable, because Goo and Nam were different cases. He knew Goo was special the moment his gun was sliced to the fact he glazed him.

Also I just realised why are we assuming it was JUST an act of intimidation? To be clear I am not saying Jincheol went all out against Nam or that Nam scales to him, but we see Nam conclude that Jincheol is using the same style of CQC as him (so regular CQC) after they have an exchange of blows and Nam gets hit in the stomach which is when he comments that he can't reach Jincheol and we get the comparison in size between their CQCs, so I do think Jinchel did use CQC against Nam even if he was clearly severely held back and overwhelming Nam



For a better comparison you can think of it as similar as Jinyoung from lookism saying he is going to take Changsu seriously/treat him as an equal and then proceeded to beat him to near death using his Shingen copy, Changsu clearly does not scale to full power Jinyoung but Jinyoung did clearly use his Shingen copy on Changsu so he did clearly take him seriously, taking someone seriously doesn't mean that said person scales to your full power, so saying Jincheol just used CQC to insinuate Nam/aura farm feels a bit disenganeous given that he yk, clearly used it against Nam, its why Nam concluded that he couldn't reach Jincheol and we were then shown their CQC range difference

Again, visual scaling isn't really a good way to determine, because in the same arc, Tom, who went against K Group goons, had red glowing eyes and red aura. By the way, this was Hair Down Tom. He had the same red glowing eyes he had against King and Closer. So if we go by your visual scaling of glowing eyes and aura, K Group leader made Tom use more Athan 50% of his power like he was against Closer and King, but Tom had his hair down and he was playing with K Group leader, meaning he didn't even go out in his less than 50% form. That's why I said the aura of strikes or glowing eyes or any kind of visual scaling isn't really a good way to determine character scaling.

Fair enough though in this case, even if we ignore that, I want you to focus on the wording, the reason I brought up manager Nam as an example is that the difference between Nam and Goo is that Nam he was taking seriously, Goo he viewed as a threat, the wording here matters a LOT

I already explained how taking someone seriously doesn't mean you are going all out or that they scale to you, the wording itself implies that up until this point you have been looking down on them and starting NOW you going to put in actual effort but it still implies superiority over your opponent, its like a back handed compliment lol

Point being intimidation or not, we know that Jincheol uses CQC if he is taking his opponent seriously because he literally starts using CQC immediately after telling Nam that he is going to start taking him seriously from now on even if he is only taking him seriously to intimidate him/crush his ego (the point here isn't how seriously he is taking Nam because he is clearly holding back, the point is that when Jincheol takes someome seriously he starts using CQC and he also def not only took Goo way more seriously than he did Nam he also acknowledged Goo as a threat which we never saw him do against Nam or hell anyone before Goo, and he also immediately wanted to recruit him compared to someone like Nam who he only recruited after their fight, the treatment, statments and effort Jincheol put in against Goo compared to Nam is night and day atp what more does Goo need to do for Jincheol to use CQC if being a threat to his life is not enough?)

HOWEVER against Goo he called Goo a THREAT, to me that statment is a step above taking someone seriously, taking someone seriously implies you are CHOOSING to take them seriously but otherwise don't have to either out of respect, courtesy or you just want to prove a point lol. On the other hand acknowledging someone as a THREAT implies you HAVE to take them seriously because they pose an actual threat to you, I find it weird that Jincheol would call Goo a threat multiple times (correct me if I am wrong) if he was actually only using LESS than 1/3 of his power because if CQC is 3x amp and special CQC is EVEN stronger then normal CQC we have Jincheol < (3x) CQC Jincheol < phase 1 warmode Jincheol < phase 2 warmode Jincheol < however many warmode phases are left, in that case Goo being a threat wouldn't make sense if Jincheol is barely even trying lol

Personally I wouldn't be calling somewhat a threat if they were massively below me lol

Also you have to account for author intent, the author chose to have Jincheol aknoledge Goo as a threat, I know Jincheol later on starts saying things like 'a futile attempt' while screwing around so he was clearly holding back, but if the author was trying to convey to us that Jincheol was actually barely using not even 1/3 of his full power I doubt the author would have shown us Jincheol getting a serious expression, looking down at his gun cut in half and then concluding 'yes you ARE a threat'

Brochaco, you answered your own question

Techniques and Path which were yet to be revealed during that time vs War Mode which was already revealed 5 chapters ago
Also I don't think we had any instances where War Mode wasn't written out or used. The only time I think is during Golden Gate, since he directly went into Phase 2, so I thought he must have been using Phase 1 the entire time, but Black Market arc solved that confusion that he doesn't need to go through Phase 1 to use Phase 2
And War Mode is literally Big 3 of techniques in SMK in S1. OG CQC + White Night, Personality Patch, and War Mode were always written out whenever they were used, if I remember correctly.


Cause that's why I said assuming that he used War Mode is pretty vague assumption

That is all fair which is why I am trying to use statements from the fight, and their performance, I know its a vague assumption that's why I am trying to back it up with evidence, I'd like to point out that scaling King to Tom also relies on similar assumptions even though we never saw Tom use UK, thresholds, signature moves, AI etc on King, so I think its fair lol

Edit: I am pretty sure we saw Taiki use his sword CQC against Nam before it was actually revealed to be CQC in the next chapter, the stance and everything is pretty much identical

Edit 2: Yup if you check chapter 128 the panel used when explaining what unique CQC is, is the same panel of Taiki slashing manager Nam during their fight, so we DO have instances of CQC usage not being name dropped with a text box, we also saw MK at the start of S2 use white knight and it also wasn't name dropped, so there is definitely a precedent to assume that Jincheol was using war mode against Goo but it wasn't name dropped

 

[Sigmagoon14]

I am lowkey gonna wrap this up in this reply, because may God bless my exam.

1) Yeah, because we are considering it an act of intimidation, because he used to intimidate Nam, and Nam was intimidated after seeing someone with such a wide CQC range and how battle-hardened it was... So from a narrative point, Jincheol was breaking Nam’s ego by intimidating him with his own superior CQC, because he was acting arrogant when he thought he took out Jincheol with one strike, or when he thought he threw Hansu out of the truck. But the moment he understood there were levels to this, he got intimidated.

2) I don’t think it’s usable, because this is just one instance. Yeah, he said he is going to take Nam seriously and used CQC, and yeah he said Goo is a threat. He also said Woocheol has a death wish for shooting his boy Daeshik, yet his first response wasn’t using CQC, just a punch to the gut thinking it would take him out. Another example being him going against King: 2 of his homeboys were kidnapped by King, yet his first response was throwing a straight Hail Mary. In fact, he knew King was the bigger threat. He could have just opened with CQC to deal with King, but he didn’t. His goofy ass thought, “why not pull Lego Hulk vs Thing,” which they did, and when he got overwhelmed, he directly went with War Mode Phase 2 to escape. If you see the problem, the main issue is he barely opens with CQC even in serious situations, because in SMK’s case, we always know it’s either JKD or CQC as his opening. And the second issue is Jincheol’s CQC has no stance to determine if he used CQC or not. Because you are only using one point about Nam, while in serious situations where lives were on the line, we never really see him opening with CQC.

3) Again, both are quite different situations. First, Taiki’s CQC is more of narrative suspense rather than not mentioning it, because it was revealed in the next chapter, so it literally falls under the same box as Moonlight Goo and Kitae’s Path. And second, White Night is literally written. Sangho opened with White Night. The stance was White Night. Even in the after-talk, Manager Kim was correcting Sangho about how to use White Night and keep his vision clear in the war zone. So yeah, the entire narrative is literally screaming that SMK used White Night. Meanwhile, the other Jincheol best evidence of using War Mode is just orange aura... that’s it . It was revealed afterwards, like Taiki’s CQC, or had an entire pep talk about War Mode like White Night.

That’s why I said it’s a very vague assumption that he used War Mode.

 

[Powerscalingcat]

I am lowkey gonna wrap this up in this reply, because may God bless my exam.

Oh my gosh I am SO SO SO sorry why didn't you tell me earlier?! If I knew you had an exam coming up I wouldn't have bothered you at all I am SO sorry please go study for your exam and reply when you are actually free, don't flunk your exam over so dumb internet nerd arguments ok?

1) Yeah, because we are considering it an act of intimidation, because he used to intimidate Nam, and Nam was intimidated after seeing someone with such a wide CQC range and how battle-hardened it was... So from a narrative point, Jincheol was breaking Nam’s ego by intimidating him with his own superior CQC, because he was acting arrogant when he thought he took out Jincheol with one strike, or when he thought he threw Hansu out of the truck. But the moment he understood there were levels to this, he got intimidated.

True my point was that what Jincheol considers 'taking someone seriously" is using CQC and imo he took Goo FAR more seriously than Nam and aknoledged him as a threat so logically he also used CQC against Goo

2) I don’t think it’s usable, because this is just one instance. Yeah, he said he is going to take Nam seriously and used CQC, and yeah he said Goo is a threat. He also said Woocheol has a death wish for shooting his boy Daeshik, yet his first response wasn’t using CQC, just a punch to the gut thinking it would take him out.

Against Woocheol he was surpised he was standing meaning he actually did put a lot of force behind his punch and then concluded that he was actually happy and that Woocheol SHOULDN'T get to take the easy way out, which is the reason Jincheol didn't use CQC off rip until he really needed to, he wanted to beat Woocheol slowly and painfully as a form of revenge, he did also use Jincheol style CQC with a gun alongside MK using white night on a bunch of golden gate fodder soldiers so I find it unlikely that Jincheol would use his CQC on a bunch of fodder but NOT Woocheol lol
You can also argue that he was using Phase 1 war mode here due to Jincheol being surpised that Woocheol is still standing (ik Jincheol can use Phase 2 and higher WITHOUT needing to use Phase 1 since they are techique/levels of restraint so it makes sense but both can be true at the same time, that Jincheol was using war mode Phase 1 against Woocheol intially and that he also skipped straight to Phase 2 against King who he knew to be much stronger

Also Woocheol scaling to phase 1 just makes sense as Jincheol used phase 1 against 0% Hansu who was only using taekwondo if I remember correctly, Woocheol was fighting and was able to go kick for kick with and even push back and overwhelm Hansu using taekwondo + kyoshin karate against a Hansu who was trying to finish the fight quickly, not to mention Jincheol using phase 2 meaning phase 1 wouldn't have been enough and all 3 of them needing to jump Woocheol to take him down, that by itself proves a character can scale to Jincheol's phase 1 war mode without Jincheol explicitly having used it by name dropping it lol

|2) another example being him going against King: 2 of his homeboys were kidnapped by King, yet his first response was throwing a straight Hail Mary. In fact, he knew King was the bigger threat. He could have just opened with CQC to deal with King, but he didn’t. His goofy ass thought, “why not pull Lego Hulk vs Thing,” which they did, and when he got overwhelmed, he directly went with War Mode Phase 2 to escape. If you see the problem, the main issue is he barely opens with CQC even in serious situations, because in SMK’s case, we always know it’s either JKD or CQC as his opening. And the second issue is Jincheol’s CQC has no stance to determine if he used CQC or not. Because you are only using one point about Nam, while in serious situations where lives were on the line, we never really see him opening with CQC.|

For King I am pretty sure that phase 2 of war mode actually requires a stance similar to normal CQC because at least that's what we see in the Woocheol fight where its actually name dropped, we see the CQC range and Jincheol taking up a stance, and he only used phase 2 once all 3 of them were jumping Woocheol meaning he had time to get in the stance, against King he was fighting him in hyper close quarters immediately upon arriving on the chopper, King was not going to give him enough time to get in the stance to use it lol
Also when did he use phase 2 against King did I miss something? He only used war mode: human missle to get back into the chopper not phase 2

3) Again, both are quite different situations. First, Taiki’s CQC is more of narrative suspense rather than not mentioning it, because it was revealed in the next chapter, so it literally falls under the same box as Moonlight Goo and Kitae’s Path. And second, White Night is literally written. Sangho opened with White Night. The stance was White Night. Even in the after-talk, Manager Kim was correcting Sangho about how to use White Night and keep his vision clear in the war zone. So yeah, the entire narrative is literally screaming that SMK used White Night. Meanwhile, the other Jincheol best evidence of using War Mode is just orange aura... that’s it . It was revealed afterwards, like Taiki’s CQC, or had an entire pep talk about War Mode like White Night.

That’s why I said it’s a very vague assumption that he used War Mode.

Fair enough
Though ok again not saying the fodder assassin scale to war mode or whatever, but its pretty clearly implied that Jincheol killed all of them after Hansu jumped out of the building and then met Goo
Obviously Jincheol doesn't need to use war mode to kill them because they are fodder but it just seems absurd to me that Jincheol would unrionically be like 'I am going to kill you guys now, but first let me hold myself back and only use exactly 1/3 of my power to do it' and then fought Goo and was like 'Yes, you are indeed a threat which is why I am going to continue using exactly 1/3 of my power against you' like

Edit: all of the text boxes in my replies keep breaking help

 

[Pyro9278]

You can't consider Manager Nam a threat when he stood no chance against those genuinely comparable to the military trio, at least not physically, especially when you know MK or Jincheol might be holding back. The only plausible reason Jincheol would be taking Nam more seriously is his combat talent/skill, since he's fighting a military man after all, and Nam was acknowledged to have a good instinct for decision-making. However... we all know how the "serious threat" ended, right?

It also doesn't help that Jincheol's objective wasn't a strictly conventional fight, but simply helping MK save his daughter, which is why he might have taken Nam seriously and used his CQC even subconsciously.

Meanwhile, the fight with Goo seemed quite even, and both were indeed fighting seriously, but as before, we need to consider the context: First of all, Goo wasn't Jincheol's target; it was Hansu. Secondly, Jincheol was assessing Goo's abilities as they fought, and he could have simply matched him instead of killing him. Perhaps the reason Goo didn't die at that point isn't because Jincheol was merciless, but because Goo was both highly skilled and incredibly strong to handle.

Furthermore, to avoid confusion regarding chain scaling and to prevent the assumption that Goo was a "much stronger threat than Jincheol," the Goo in MK is NOT the one scaling to 3x CQC, but rather the one who faced Tom Lee in 1A.

 

[Powerscalingcat]

You can't consider Manager Nam a threat when he stood no chance against those genuinely comparable to the military trio, at least not physically, especially when you know MK or Jincheol might be holding back. The only plausible reason Jincheol would be taking Nam more seriously is his combat talent/skill, since he's fighting a military man after all, and Nam was acknowledged to have a good instinct for decision-making. However... we all know how the "serious threat" ended, right?

I am sorry if I worded my replies badly but I also told the same thing to Sig, I NEVER said Jincheol said or viewed Manager Nam as a THREAT, I said Jincheol said he would take Maneger Nam seriously and then started using CQC, Jincheol clearly WAS holding back against Nam and he clearly didn't need to use CQC to beat him, my point was that what Jincheol considers taking someone seriously is using CQC, again I am not saying he NEEDED to take Nam seriously, the story makes it very clear he only took Manager Nam seriously out of respect because he was a fellow solider/mercenary, my point was that what Jincheol associates with being serious is using CQC, the story makes a distinction between no CQC and CQC, Jincheol is not serious when he is using CQC, and if he is using CQC it means he is serious, my point that against Goo Jincheol not only took him seriously, wanted to recruit him off rip, but he EXPLICITLY aknoledged Goo as a THREAT, why would he say that if nothing was gonna change and he was going to continue fighting the exact same way, you can say he just started holding back less (which is also what I am saying just that holding back less = means using at LEAST basic CQC) but like man if someone being a threat to your life is not enough for you to use more than a third of your power then what is?
Like were King and Woocheol also not threats to Jincheol? What was diffrent about them and Goo that he would use his CQC against them but not Goo? What did Goo need to do for him to use CQC?

It also doesn't help that Jincheol's objective wasn't a strictly conventional fight, but simply helping MK save his daughter, which is why he might have taken Nam seriously and used his CQC even subconsciously.

I am not gonna deny that possibility though we literally have Jincheol say thay Nam smells of the same scent as him (a soldier) before he says 'I am going to take you seriously from now on' so I think he just did that out of respect for Nam being a fellow solider, not that he actually needed to lol
Though Nam was still able to endure at least a single punch from Jincheol using CQC (granted he got 2 shot lol)

Meanwhile, the fight with Goo seemed quite even, and both were indeed fighting seriously, but as before, we need to consider the context: First of all, Goo wasn't Jincheol's target; it was Hansu. Secondly, Jincheol was assessing Goo's abilities as they fought, and he could have simply matched him instead of killing him. Perhaps the reason Goo didn't die at that point isn't because Jincheol was merciless, but because Goo was both highly skilled and incredibly strong to handle.

I brought up the Hansu part with Sig as well and wouldn't that be even more reason for him to use CQC against Goo? since ya know... 0% Hansu is on the lose so he should probably wrap things up quickly instead of matching Goo's power and slowly ramping up? Jincheol is never beating the holds back man allegations.
Also Jincheol matching Goo to test him is very unlikely given that Jincheol tried to blow his casket
He put a Gun to his forehead and pulled the trigger 0 hesitation, which mind you, Jincheol had no idea Goo was gonna dodge that, so in his mind he was about to blow Goo's brains out all over the wall
I think after Goo cut his gun in half with a pocket watch and Jincheol realised 'oh this guy means BUSINESS' I think he genuinely LOCKED IN so hard he forgot about Hansu going on a rampage LMAO
Or he genuinely couldn't give less of a shit about 0% Hansu going on a rampage

Furthermore to avoid confusion regarding chain scaling and to prevent the assumption that Goo was a "much stronger threat than Jincheol," the Goo in MK is NOT the one scaling to 3x CQC, but rather the one who faced Tom Lee in 1A.
Ah I see noted

 

[Sigmagoon14]

Like were King and Woocheol also not threats to Jincheol? What was diffrent about them and Goo that he would use his CQC against them but not Goo? What did Goo need to do for him to use CQC?

Small Correction : He didn't used CQC against Either of them, he brawled with King like Lego hulk vs Thing type brawl and Against Woocheol he later used his CQC against fodders while using Gun not when he was in 2V1, he was just delivering Heavy attacks during that time

That's why i said you are using one instance of Nam to determine other fights where he was serious and didn't used it and second being which I already said Jincheol doesn't have CQC stance like SMK and CQC users to determine when he is using CQC or not

Woocheol was fighting and was able to go kick for kick with and even push back and overwhelm Hansu using taekwondo + kyoshin karate against a Hansu who was trying to finish the fight quickly,

Nope, you're wrong again. He never used KK against Woocheol in 1v1. The only time he used it was during the 3v1, when all three of them were trying to end the fight. If I remember correctly, it was Baekho or White Tiger.

Also when did he use phase 2 against King did I miss something? He only used war mode: human missle to get back into the chopper not phase 2

Yeah, you're right, but again it still proves War Mode is titled when it's used, even long after its introduction. So it wouldn't make sense if they didn't title it 5 chapters later against Goo.

0% Hansu is on the lose so he should probably wrap things up quickly instead of matching Goo's power and slowly ramping up

Yeah, but the problem is inconsistency in his character. He ran from the Ares base all the way to Mount Baekdu to save SMK and Hansu, so why couldn't he just jump down to chase Hansu even after calling him a "nuke on loose"? But he just marched down. I know both situations are quite different, but still his response to threat varies. And it wouldn't make sense that he was still in War Mode while marching down through floors just because Hansu was on the loose he could have run yet he didn't and on fodders


You know, we should stop debating here because I feel like we are just flooding the GD thread. If you're going to make a thread on this topic, we can discuss there
(Sorry if I sound dismissive, but I'm not. The only reason I'm saying this is because the discussion wouldn't end otherwise )

 

[Pyro9278]

I brought up the Hansu part with Sig as well and wouldn't that be even more reason for him to use CQC against Goo? since ya know... 0% Hansu is on the lose so he should probably wrap things up quickly instead of matching Goo's power and slowly ramping up? Jincheol is never beating the holds back man allegations.
Also Jincheol matching Goo to test him is very unlikely given that Jincheol tried to blow his casket
He put a Gun to his forehead and pulled the trigger 0 hesitation, which mind you, Jincheol had no idea Goo was gonna dodge that, so in his mind he was about to blow Goo's brains out all over the wall
I think after Goo cut his gun in half with a pocket watch and Jincheol realised 'oh this guy means BUSINESS' I think he genuinely LOCKED IN so hard he forgot about Hansu going on a rampage LMAO
Or he genuinely couldn't give less of a shit about 0% Hansu going on a rampage

Not necessarily. Jincheol was also "entertained/occupied" with the fight, and this is evident from the moment Goo started using weapons. He knows Goo is a challenge and began testing him; he even wanted to recruit him.

But overall, I think Jincheol wasn't using CQC or his War Mode because it's simply not specified, and any other mention of it is speculation. The visual representations in MK don't help matters either, since if it were based solely on effects, we'd have several characters qualifying for 4M. Simply put, the most plausible conclusion is that the two are comparable at their base levels, and that's it.

 

[Pyro9278]

Btw, we finally see another UI user who isn't Gun, Shingen, Shintaro, or the Daniels. I'm curious to see him since he also happens to be a swordsman, and it would be interesting to see how Gap fights a weapon user with UI.

And it looks like the next episode will feature Gap's fight against Charles. Perhaps we'll get more information on how Invisible Attacks work, or even a retcon, or maybe something about Conviction.

 

[CatLover313]

I'll make the CRT in two days so if there's anyone that wants to make the CGD, they'll know that I plan on making a CRT soon (plus, it'll be 1 week since the calc was accepted)

Here it is, hopefully there's no issues......

Lookism: God Tiers AP Upgrades

It's been a week since this calculation (High 8-C - Large Building Level: 6.05 Tons of TNT) was accepted, so going to make a CRT for the characters this would apply to as it feels like it's been enough time.... Caveat to non-Lookism readers. Path is a sort of power-up and is different depending...

vsbattles.com

 

[Sigmagoon14]

Btw, we finally see another UI user who isn't Gun, Shingen, Shintaro, or the Daniels.

The more surprising part is that he's a controlled Ul user, unlike Gukja and Daniels who can't control

I hope PTJ shows us how they control Ul instead of making us wait until the next arc

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Btw, we finally see another UI user who isn't Gun, Shingen, Shintaro, or the Daniels. I'm curious to see him since he also happens to be a swordsman, and it would be interesting to see how Gap fights a weapon user with UI.

Knowing PTJ this guy will be a jobber for Goo's sensei, though I kind of hope not lol
(Yes I am still salty about Pacheon being a swordsman specifically so Goo could also get upscaled even though his mastery kit and fighting style make NO sense and it still bothers me)

And it looks like the next episode will feature Gap's fight against Charles. Perhaps we'll get more information on how Invisible Attacks work, or even a retcon, or maybe something about Conviction.

Ama be deadass IA got retconned into being speed mastery + fighting style
I know what Taesoo said about theit being only 2 users (3 now with Sinu) which wouldn't be the case if it was JUST speed mastery otherwise Gong would have it though imo

IA is a fighting style that uses speed mastery

Honestly I kind of wish PTJ retconned it into being a unique skill similar to OSOK (speed + techique) but oh well

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Small Correction : He didn't used CQC against Either of them, he brawled with King like Lego hulk vs Thing type brawl and Against Woocheol he later used his CQC against fodders while using Gun not when he was in 2V1, he was just delivering Heavy attacks during that time

Against King he used war mode: human missle which was stated, against Woocheol he skipped straight to Phase 2, and we actually saw him take up a stance with the CQC radius appearing around him which is why I theorized he didn't use it off rip, because he couldn't

That's why i said you are using one instance of Nam to determine other fights where he was serious and didn't used it and second being which I already said Jincheol doesn't have CQC stance like SMK and CQC users to determine when he is using CQC or not

Well for phase 2 he definitely has if the Woocheol fight is any indicator but war mode is fair

Nope, you're wrong again. He never used KK against Woocheol in 1v1. The only time he used it was during the 3v1, when all three of them were trying to end the fight. If I remember correctly, it was Baekho or White Tiger.

Ok fair enough sowwy ;w; my point was that he could keep up with a Hansu that was trying to end the fight so he should scale the phase 1 war mode by default (why would Jincheol use phase 2 instead of phase 1 otherwise?)

Yeah, you're right, but again it still proves War Mode is titled when it's used, even long after its introduction. So it wouldn't make sense if they didn't title it 5 chapters later against Goo.

Fair enough

Yeah, but the problem is inconsistency in his character. He ran from the Ares base all the way to Mount Baekdu to save SMK and Hansu, so why couldn't he just jump down to chase Hansu even after calling him a "nuke on loose"? But he just marched down. I know both situations are quite different, but still his response to threat varies. And it wouldn't make sense that he was still in War Mode while marching down through floors just because Hansu was on the loose he could have run yet he didn't and on fodders

For me it just doesn't make sense since war mode is a fighting style/martial art, so you can't really turn it on/off just chose when to use it lol
As you mentioned we don't have any visual indicators for it and I do agree that Jincheol's threat evaluation is certainly... something
But I don't see him deliberately switching to a weaker fighting style when he is legit killing people lol
Like atp why does it matter if he holds back its not like they are gonna survive anyway

You know, we should stop debating here because I feel like we are just flooding the GD thread. If you're going to make a thread on this topic, we can discuss there

(Sorry if I sound dismissive, but I'm not. The only reason I'm saying this is because the discussion wouldn't end otherwise )

Fair enough I'll stop for now until I either get the energy to make a dedicated thread or we get more evidence to support it lol
(Hopefully we get a chapter that explains war mode in more detail similar to how we got one for CQC and signature CQC.
AUTHORRRRRRR RETROACTIVELY RETCON JINCHEOL USING WAR MODE AGAINST GOO AND MY LIFE IS YOURSSSSSSSS!)

 

[Kakistan]

Has anyone ever tried compiling the best feats of every spinoff? I feel like after that one calc debunk thread, we lost about 60% of the spinoff calcs.

I recently reread some early fights in Juvenile Law and these guys are easily putting hands on armed fighters, we might be able to get much better speed calcs for PTJVerse mid-tiers through this. (Thanks to Lil Eli stating that Base Sean is weaker than Olly)

In Chapter 20 we see the little kid perception blitzing Armed Bodyguards while they were staring at him
Eugene Perception Blitz
And in that same chapter, Hyeonho intercepts a gun after the trigger is pressed and before the bullet could come out (coming in from multiple meters off to the side)
Hyeonho Intercepting
Then in Chapter 4, Shion comes from off-screen (she couldn't see him while aiming at his Mom) to block Rachel's bullet with a frying pan
Sean Blocking

Lowkey would be nice if anybody tried their hand at calc'ing these

 

[CatLover313]

Has anyone ever tried compiling the best feats of every spinoff? I feel like after that one calc debunk thread, we lost about 60% of the spinoff calcs.

I recently reread some early fights in Juvenile Law and these guys are easily putting hands on armed fighters, we might be able to get much better speed calcs for PTJVerse mid-tiers through this. (Thanks to Lil Eli stating that Base Sean is weaker than Olly)

In Chapter 20 we see the little kid perception blitzing Armed Bodyguards while they were staring at him
Eugene Perception Blitz
And in that same chapter, Hyeonho intercepts a gun after the trigger is pressed and before the bullet could come out (coming in from multiple meters off to the side)
Hyeonho Intercepting
Then in Chapter 4, Shion comes from off-screen (she couldn't see him while aiming at his Mom) to block Rachel's bullet with a frying pan
Sean Blocking

Lowkey would be nice if anybody tried their hand at calc'ing these

Aim dodging, probably run into the same issue this does too.