Underrated TCG becomes your nightmare - Cardfight!! Vanguard Asia Circuit Arc Upgrades

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hey there everyone. I'm back with one of these, and for a verse I have not touched here in a big minute. But with no other big projects to do at the moment, i'm attempting to go back to where I left off with this, fix up a good amount of stuff, & continue on with the series.

Long story short, for anyone unaware, this is a verse I added to the site years back that I've been neglecting for a while. Cardfight!! Vanguard.

Relevant info & whatnot is linked to get a sense of what this series is. 6 years ago, I actually already made this upgrade thread that initially got accepted, but due to my hiatus & the workload of adding the character’s pages to the site, it never got applied and just…faded out. And obviously with how long it’s been since this happened, I'm re-making this revision thread in order to pick up from where things left off.

As for the actual revision itself? Here is a blog I made (and fixed up) for all the relevant feats & abilities I'll be referring to here to get feedback from.

The Power of Vanguard​

Now I'll be taking a brief moment to summarize where the verse currently sits at, so you all can better understand the context and where I want to take it next with these revisions.

Currently, the verse is at tier 4, High 4-C. This is based off of this feat done by Misaki Tokura’s Tsukuyomi Units, that get scaled to other major Vanguard characters in the series as per their reasons.

With this new revision, my aim is to further upgrade the verse with new feats & abilities that I have covered in the most recent respect thread blog I did for Vanguard.

Spoiler: The Upgrade Proposal

The new powers & abilities will be covered later down the line here. But first, this thread is pushing to upgrade the verse from High 4-C to 4-A now, based off of 2 feats that most of the characters scale from. One is done by Misaki Tokura once again, and the other by the antagonist of this season, The Void.

In Misaki’s case, this is coming from Episode 72 of the Asia Circuit arc. Misaki’s Goddess of the Full Moon Tsukuyomi, as part of her attack, very easily created a dimensional space with dozens of stars present inside of it during her attacking phase against her opponent. For context, Tsukuyomi’s attack vanished because Misaki’s opponent successfully guarded against it to stop it from landing. So while Tsukyomi’s attack was successfully blocked by Misaki’s opponent, Tsukuyomi still created the dimension, demonstrating that level of power in her feat. As per our treatment of starry sky feats, this would qualify for 4-A.

Now, to give some explanation as to why this should be a legitimate 4-A feat, the Tsukuyomi ride line (Crescent Moon, Half Moon and then Full Moon Tsukuyomi) all already have casual High 4-C feats via their dominion over the moon. Crescent Moon Tsukuyomi performs the feat, Half & Full Moon, her evolutions, upscale from it. The S1 CF Vanguard blog I made covers this already, and we have an accepted calc placing C.M. Tsukuyomi’s moon feat at High 4-C. Being known to already manipulate celestial bodies as part of their attacks, such as the moon, and easily at that, creating starry dimensions should reasonably fit within their repertoire of power and be considered real. Especially since this 4-A feat is coming from Tsukuyomi’s strongest form out of the rideline.

Now, in The Void’s case, it has its own dimensional feat done in this season that acts as supporting evidence for this proposal. Simply with just the presence of its nothingness, Void was destabilizing a space that exists between Earth and Planet Cray’s universes (you can find this towards the bottom part of the S2 feats blog for details) & it would have destroyed it had it not been stopped by Aichi Sendou. To coincide with Tsukuyomi’s dimensional feat, Void demonstrating a similar feat better showcases this being a legitimate power bump.

So between Tsukuyomi’s feat & Void’s feat, 4-A should be a plausible upgrade here.

Spoiler: Who This Scales To & Why

As far as Tsukuyomi’s 4-A feat goes, since this is coming from Misaki, pretty much every relevant character here that has a page, and will be getting their own pages added soon, would scale to this. This would also include their Season 1 keys.

The reason this scales to everyone is because Misaki, while using her Tsukuyomi Units in the first half of Asia Circuit, was treated as fairly weak in comparison. While everyone else gets stronger, Misaki on the other hand, was at exactly the same level of power she was at by the end of S1 by the time this feat was performed. With them, she loses every major cardfight she participates in against relevant characters, including a stronger Asaka Narumi.

Unlike the others who received upgrades, Misaki pretty much received no training or increases in power from where she was at before in S1, until the 2nd half of the season when upgrading her deck with different units. That would mean Full Moon Tsukuyomi was just 4-A all along, before and during her performance in Asia Circuit. And any character who has beaten Misaki, defeated stronger opponents, or is comparable to her level, would receive this upgrade.

The Void would also upscale from this for being, by this point, one of the strongest entities in Vanguard overall. Aside from Void nearly eradicating all of Cray, It boosted the power of Leon Soryu and the Aquaforce clan, one of Planet Cray’s strongest clans aside from Royal Paladin, Kagero & Shadow Paladin. And when empowered by the Void, Leon defeated Toshiki Kai and was just barely defeated by Aichi Sendou, both of whom are much stronger than Asia Circuit Misaki overall.

The next section will cover some new haxes I'd like to propose be added.

New Powers & Abilities​

The linked blog has all of the listed abilities & justifications for why covered & who should get them. So I'll summarize as much as I can to keep it short here, and give explanations for it. Some of the characters listed are ones who will be getting pages made for them as well.

Spoiler: Character Powers & Abilities

The Void (needs a page):​

• Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure & Nonexistent Physiology (Self explanatory; Void is the power of nothingness & was going to eradicate Planet Cray & Earth & everyone in both worlds upon consuming them.)
• Darkness Manipulation & Aura
• Large Size (Type 4 or 5; Void was enveloping Planet Cray & spreading across dimensions to envelop Earth)
• (Maybe) Nigh-Omnipresence (as said above, spreading it’s nothingness across dimensions)
• (Maybe) Incoporeality (As nothingness & existing only as a will, it has no true form).
• Space-Time Manipulation (When the Royal Paladin, Shadow Paladin & Kagero clans vanished from the world, a warp in space-time was created, & Daigo was stuck in it for continuing to use his Royal Paladin deck; It’s nothingness made tears in reality & would destroy the space between the worlds of Cray & Earth).
• Electricity Manipulation (Can fire lightning bolts; Chris can create electrical blasts when powered by Void’s nothingness)
• Earth Manipulation (Leon & Chris could create Vanguard fight tables out of rocks using Void’s power).
• Water Manipulation & Illusion Creation (Appeared before Leon as a waterfall with evil reflection of himself to speak with him).
• Energy Absorption (Leon was able to use The Void’s power to absorb power directly from the inhabitants of Planet Cray; Void’s nothingness can drain energy from targets).
• Willpower Manipulation (Void’s nothingness can drain a target's willpower, as shown with draining Aichi’s will to fight Leon).
• Soul Manipulation (Transported Leon’s soul to Cray).
• Mind Manipulation (Can cause mental pain, as Aichi & Ren both felt)
• Portal Creation & Sealing (Imprisoned Blaster Blade, Blaster Dark & Dragonic Overlord, as well as their respective clans, in another dimension).
• Fusionism (Merged part of its nothingness with Leon).
• Likely Power Bestowal (Implied to have awakened Leon's PSYqualia)
• Reality Warping (Void’s power warped the surface of Cray, as well as destabilized the space between Earth & Cray’s universes and was destroying it as well.)
• The Void possesses PSYqualiaas well, so it should also gain:
  • Fate Manipulation (that can also interact with nonexistence for working on nothingness)
  • Clairvoyance
  • Causality Manipulation
  • Subjective Reality
  • Precognition
  • Reality Warping
  • Telepathy
  • Information Analysis
  • Cosmic Awareness (Psyqualia users can sense Planet Cray, which exists in a different universe from Earth & witness the scenes of battle there through their imagination).
  • Likely Power Nullification (see the section below about Aichi)
  • Dream Manipulation (PSYqualia allows users to speak with their Units in their dreams, such as with Aichi)
  • Enhanced Senses & Extrasensory Perception (PSYqualia can be used to sense the power of a user’s Vanguard Units & sense the location & emotions of others).
  • Soul Manipulation
  • Fear Inducement
  • Aura
  • Pain Manipulation
  • Accelerated Development
  • Power Bestowal

(For a brief explanation on PSYqualia’s powers, see Aichi Sendou’s page)

• And Resistance to PSYqualia’s powers (Void had merged part of itself with Leon, who had resisted Aichi’s PSYqualia when they first fought against each other).
• Resistance to Enhanced Senses (Void’s power was able to hide Leon’s presence from being sensed by other PSYqualia users).

Takuto (needs a page):​

• Cosmic Awareness (Can observe activity on Cray, which resides in a different universe from Earth; Observed Aichi, Chris & Ren using their PSYqualia’s against each other).
• Minor Resistance to Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Willpower Manipulation, Energy Absorption & Reality Warping (Can resist Void’s nothingness to an extent, which can drain one’s energy & will to fight against it, as well as its nothingness destabilizing space & erasing targets; Takuto’s powers were weakened by Void but still capable of being used after the fact).
• Has PSYqualia, so he gets all of its abilities, as well as:
  • Better Cosmic Awareness
  • Likely Power Nullification (see Aichi’s section)
  • Fate hax that now works against nonexistence (see Leon’s & Aichi’s sections)
• New abilities that should be exclusive to Takuto’s PSYqualia (as his is depicted as being in its own league compared to the other users):
  • Memory Manipulation & Mind Manipulation (Altered and erased the worlds memories of the clans Void sealed away, & restored them later on; Fought Toshiki Kai and Ren & made them forget about the encounters afterwards.)
  • Power Bestowal (Awakened PSYqualia within Aichi, Ren & Chris)
  • Portal Creation & Dimensional Travel (Created a portal to Planet Cray and transported Aichi & others to a space in between Cray and Earth’s worlds.)
  • Teleportion (Can teleport from Earth to the space between the worlds.)
  • Law Manipulation & Technology (Takuto’s portal acting as the pathway to Cray was designed to only allow the chosen cardfighters, & no one else, to enter the space between the worlds and the space was made to expel any cardfighter who loses a battle there so that they couldn’t even exist within it.)

Leon (needs a page):​

• When merged with The Void’s nothingness, Leon should have Nonexistent Physiology, Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Darkness Manipulation, Aura, Fusionism, Electricity Manipulation, Earth Manipulation, Willpower Manipulation, Energy Absorption, Reality Warping, & Teleportation. However, he loses these abilities after being freed from The Void.
• Has PSYqualia, so he gets all of its abilities (minus Takuto’s exclusive ones) & scales to the same extent as The Void’s PSYqualia.
• Resistance to PSYqualia’s powers (resisted Aichi’s PSYqualia when they first fought against each other & overcame it).
• Resistance to Memory Manipulation (Leon’s awareness of the 3 clans Void captured remained intact, despite Takuto altering & erasing everyone else’s memories of them).
• Resistance to Enhanced Senses (Void’s power was able to hide Leon’s presence from being sensed by other PSYqualia users); Leon loses this resistance when being freed from The Void.

Christopher Lo (needs a page):​

• When merged with The Void’s nothingness, Chris (to a lower extent than Leon) should have Nonexistent Physiology, Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Darkness Manipulation, Aura, Fusionism, Electricity Manipulation, Earth Manipulation, Willpower Manipulation, Energy Absorption, Reality Warping, & Teleportation. However, he loses these abilities after being freed from The Void.
• Resistance to Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Willpower Manipulation, Energy Absorption & Reality Warping (Can resist Void’s nothingness, which can drain one’s energy & will to fight against it, as well as its nothingness destabilizing space & erasing targets; the Void’s nothingness only made Chris stronger when targeting him).
• Has PSYqualia, so he gets all of its abilities (minus Takuto’s exclusive ones) & scales to the same extent as The Void’s PSYqualia.
• And likely Resistance to PSYqualia’s powers (Chris’s team fought against Aichi’s in the finals of the VF circuit, implying his team defeated Ren’s and could overcome the latter’s PSYqualia).

Aichi:​

• Better Telepathy, Astral Projection, Summoning & Teleportation (Aichi regularly consults with his Units on Cray by projecting his astral body to meet & converse with them.)
• Better Enhanced Senses (Aichi could sense Kai’s intense emotions and imagination displayed against Leon)
• Resistance to Memory Manipulation (Aichi kept his previous memories of Blaster Blade and the 3 clans Void captured, despite Takuto altering & erasing everyone else’s memories of them).
• Resistance to Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Willpower Manipulation, Energy Absorption & Reality Warping (Aichi can resist Void’s nothingness, which can drain one’s energy & will to fight against it, as well as its nothingness destabilizing space & erasing targets).
• Better resistance to PSYqualia’s abilities (Overcame Void Empowered Leon’s PSYqualia)
• With PSYqualia, more new abilities:
  • Cosmic Awareness (see above)
  • Power Nullification (Aichi’s PSYqualia negated Leon’s & made it unable to work during their fight.)
  • Clairvoyance (PSYqualia can inform users of what happens in the future & impending danger, such as it did for Leon).
  • Fate hax that works on nothingness (Leon’s PSYqualia was shown to be able to work on the Void’s nothingness, & Aichi defeated Leon & Void with his own PSYqualia).

Ren:​

• Better Enhanced Senses (Ren could sense Kai’s intense emotions and imagination displayed against Leon)
• Resistance to Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Willpower Manipulation, Energy Absorption & Reality Warping (Ren can resist Void’s nothingness, which can drain one’s energy & will to fight against it, as well as its nothingness destabilizing space & erasing targets).
• Better resistance to PSYqualia’s abilities.
• With PSYqualia, more new abilities:
  • Cosmic Awareness (see above)
  • Likely Power Nullification (Should be capable of the same as Aichi’s, & was implied to have been a better match for Leon instead of Kai for being a PSYqualia user)
  • Clairvoyance (PSYqualia can inform users of what happens in the future & impending danger, such as it did for Leon).
  • Fate hax that works on nothingness (Leon and Aichi demonstrate that PSYqualia can work on the Void’s nothingness).

Kai:​

• Minor Resistance to Memory Manipulation (Despite Takuto altering & erasing everyone else’s memories of the clans The Void sealed away, Kai was able to somewhat recall the missing clans & Blaster Blade being Aichi’s Avatar).
• Resistance to Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Willpower Manipulation, Energy Absorption & Reality Warping (Kaii can resist Void’s nothingness, which can drain one’s energy & will to fight against it, as well as its nothingness destabilizing space & erasing targets).
• Better resistance to PSYqualia’s abilities (Kai can defeat Asia Circuit Ren on a regular basis, even after the latter obtained his PSYqualia; Surprised Leon Soryu with using Dragonic Kaiser Vermillion “THE BLOOD” against him, suggesting that Leon wasn’t able to foresee Kai using it with his PSYqualia).

Misaki:​

• Resistance to Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Willpower Manipulation, Energy Absorption & Reality Warping (Misaki can resist Void’s nothingness, which can drain one’s energy & will to fight against it, as well as its nothingness destabilizing space & erasing targets).
• Resistance to PSYqualia’s abilities (Defeated Ren in a practice match, who was using someone else’s deck against her & re-obtained PSYqualia by this point).
• Photographic Memory (For both S1 & Asia Circuit keys; Didn’t realize we actually had as an actual ability page; so Misaki should get it for being able to perfectly memorize everything, even things she has only seen once).

Kamui, Asaka, Ali, Lee, & Sharlene should all get:​

• Resistance to Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Willpower Manipulation, Energy Absorption & Reality Warping (Can resist Void’s nothingness, which can drain one’s energy & will to fight against it, as well as its nothingness destabilizing space & erasing targets).
• Possible Clairvoyance (Sharlene only; Like Leon, Sharlene is able to speak to “The Wind” and have awareness of what will happen in the future because of it).

Kenji Mitsusada:​

• Resistance to PSYqualia’s abilities (Defeated Ren, who was using Tetsu’s deck afte re-obtaining PSYqualia by this point).

Kourin, Rekka & Suiko Tatsunagi:​

• Extrasensory Perception (Could sense the Void's power from within the space between Earth & Cray's worlds; Suiko sensed the space-time distortion Daigo was trapped in while still using his Royal Paladin deck)
• Possible Resistance to Memory Manipulation (Knew who the Void was & implied to have known the Royal Paladins were sealed away by it, despite mostly everyone else having forgotten about them through Takuto)

All Cardfighters in Vanguard:​

• Subjective Reality (Via their imagination, pretty self explanatory)
• Astral Projection to be replaced with Soul Projection (literally the same thing for the same reasons, but incorrect terminology, I forgot we had a page for this ability)
• Interdimensional Range for Summoning (Aichi, Ren, Kai, Misaki & several other characters can summon their Units directly to their locations from Cray, demonstrating that Vanguard fighters generally have this capability with their summoning ability).

Spoiler: The Vanguard Units Powers & Abilities

I won't list every single ability from the blog for the Units, but I’ll try condensing the more important abilities here to summarize it.

All Vanguard Units should get:​

• True Flight (Can stand & fight mid air within the skies of Cray)
• Enhanced Senses & likely Cosmic Awareness (Vanguard Units seem aware of activity across dimensions and can call themselves forth to be given to Cardfighters of their choosing, such as Aichi, Misaki & Kamui).
• Nonexistent Interaction & Erasure (I guess better Non-Physical Interaction & Existence Erasure?; All the Units on Planet Cray can interact with & fought against The Void’s nothingness, and likely would’ve defeated it before Void captured Royal Paladin, Shadow Paladin & Kagero to gain the upperhand against Cray).

Aichi’s Blaster Blade should now get:​

• Astral Projection, Dimensional Travel, & Resistance to Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Willpower Manipulation, Energy Absorption, Reality Warping & Sealing (Despite being sealed away by The Void, Blaster Blade’s soul was able to travel across dimensions to reach Aichi’s side in the space between Earth & Cray, as Blaster Blade Spirit.)
• Enhanced Senses & Light Manipulation (Could find Aichi within the space between worlds & unleash a beam of light that can track Leon’s presence, even with nothingness concealing it).
• Incoporeality (as Blaster Blade Spirit)
• Nonexistent Erasure (Destroyed the nothingness Void was giving off to surround Aichi)

Aichi's Other Units:​

• Incandescent Lion Blond Ezel should get:
  • Fire Manipulation
  • Light Manipulation & Reality Warping (Blond Ezel unleashed a wave of light that expelled Void’s nothingness from Cray’s surface & freed the sealed clans from the dimension Void imprisoned them in).
• Charging Chariot Knight:
  • Energy Manipulation & Weapon Creation via creating spears of energy.
• Knight of Passion, Bagdemagus:
  • Electricity Manipulation
• Silver Fang Witch:
  • Electricity Manipulation via her staff

Leon & Sharlene's Units:​

All of the Aquaforce Clan can breathe & live underwater on Planet Cray; by default, they should get Self-Sustanance (Type 1)

• Blue Storm Supreme Dragon Glory Maelstrom:
  • Forcefield Creation (Defended Blaster Blade & Blond Ezel from an attack by The Void’s nothingness)
• Officer Cadet of the First Battle:
  • True Flight
  • Water Manipulation & possibly limited Intangibility via having wings made purely of water.
• Tear Knight Cyprus:
  • True Flight
  • Water Manipulation & possibly limited Intangibility via having wings made purely of water.
  • Weapon Mastery & Energy Manipulation via firing energy bows
• Navelgazer Dragon:
  • Electricity Manipulation
• Battleship Intelligence:
  • Incorporeality via existing purely as data.
• Tri-holl Dracokid:
  • Electricity Manipulation

Kai's Units:​

• Dragonic Kaiser Vermillion:
  • Electricity Manipulation
• Brightjet Dragon:
  • Electricity Manipulation

Misaki's Units:​

• Sky Witch NaNa:
  • Vibration Manipulation
• Maiden of Libra:
  • Vibration Manipulation
• Scarlet Witch Coco:
  • Electricity Manipulation

Kamui's Units:​

• Beast Deity Azure Dragon:
  • Fire Manipulation via his swords
• Hi-Powered Razier Custom:
  • Air Manipulation
  • Vibration Manipulation
• Perfect Raizer:
  • Vibration Manipulation

Rekka & Kourin's Units:​

• Holy Zone, Penemue:
  • Forcefield Creation via her whip
• Circular Claw Kiriel:
  • Electricity Manipulation
• Core Memory Armaros:
  • Data Manipulation
  • Energy Manipulation

Kyou's Units:​

• Martial Arts Mutant Master Beetle:
  • Vibration Manipulation

Chris, Ali & Lee's Units:​

• Flasked Marmoset:
  • Water or Acid Manipulation via his giant chemical flask.
• Geograph Giant:
  • Electricity Manipulation
• Cable Sheep:
  • Forcefield Creation
• Explosion Scientist Bunta:
  • Explosion Manipulation

Tetsu's Units:​

• Greedy Hand:
  • Darkness Manipulation & Energy Manipulation via creating dark energy constructs in the form of hands.
• Dark Lord of Abyss:
  • Light Manipulation
  • Aura
  • Likely Durability Negation

Kenji's Ultimate Robot Great Daiyusha:​

• Weapon Creation to create his sword

Gouki's Ice Prison Necromancer:​

• Soul Manipulation & Air Manipulation via converting souls into a tornado.

Yuri's Battle Sister Cookie:​

• Electricity Manipulation

Vanguard Unit Card Skills:​

Finally, in this section, are card effects that count as real abilities for the Vanguard Units. The blog covers why these are legitimate abilities rather than game mechanics. But to briefly summarize, Vanguard battles are not like typical TCG battles. Game rules & verse lore dictates that the battles with the Units happen in real time, in a real setting. So aside from skills that are only for the game aspect of Vanguard, most Unit skills are real abilities.

These consist of abilities like:

“The Soul” mechanic granting various degrees of Soul Manipulation:​

• Soul Absorption via soul charging
• (Self) Soul Destruction via soul blasts
• (Self) Soul Manipulation via Units moving themselves into & out of a Vanguard’s soul, & summoning Units from within a Vanguard’s soul.

(Passive) Statistics Amplification via various means​

• Passive Power Boosting via having Units within the Vanguard’s soul
• Power being boosted when certain Units are used as Vanguards
• Power being boosted when certain Units boost the power of other Units
• Power being boosted when attacking (and can boost allies power)
• Power being boosted when defending
• Power being boosted when a certain number of Units are summoned to battle
• Power being boosted passively once particular Units are summoned to battle
• Power being boosted by the “Limit Break” mechanic.

Stamina Inducement via Stand Trigger Units & skills that re-stand Units​

Healing via Heal Trigger Units & skills that heal damage from a Vanguard​

Damage Boost via Critical Trigger Units & skills that increase damage.​

BFR (and self inflicted)​

Summoning & Possession (Passive as well)​

• Units superior calling other Units
• Units allowing Cardfighters to superior ride other Units.
• Summoning Negation via certain Units preventing others being used for defense

Attack Negation via Perfect Guard Units who can nullify attacks.​

Existence Erasure via skills that retire Units from battle (retiring being shown as erasure).​

• Nonexistent Physiology via Units having skills activated after being destroyed.

Resurrection via certain Units being immediately brought back after being destroyed.​

That's all for now. With all of this out of the way, here we go.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

bump

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Bump

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

bump

 

[Hypertornado099]

I think creation feats only scale to other stats only if there's a UES involved

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I think creation feats only scale to other stats only if there's a UES involved

Oh like if the character in question has an involved energy or the verse has an energy system in play?

 

[SomebodyData]

Oh like if the character in question has an involved energy or the verse has an energy system in play?

Yep, we would need to prove:
1) The Creation feat uses the same energy as their regular destructive feats
2) The Creation feat does not require an extreme amount of power / is comparable to the destructive feats.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think creation feats only scale to other stats only if there's a UES involved

Yeah, and on top of that, there's also the concern of "Similar amounts of energy." We don't scale if there is no connected energy system to other powers/abilities. But on top of that, even with a proven connection, we need to prove the creation feat is done fairly casually and isn't a "Final Explosion" situation.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah, and on top of that, there's also the concern of "Similar amounts of energy." We don't scale if there is no connected energy system to other powers/abilities. But on top of that, even with a proven connection, we need to prove the creation feat is done fairly casually and isn't a "Final Explosion" situation.

Okay I see now.

As far as the level of effort put into the feat, it definitely isn’t a “last resort” type of one. Full Moon Tsukuyomi did this feat pretty casually when preparing her attack against Misaki’s opponent. And for the whole rideline (by that I mean Crescent, Half, & Full Moon Tsukuyomi, weakest to strongest versions), all of their feats that as of now, reach High 4-C, are done pretty handily.

For the point on this being done with energy / a UES, I believe this follows that. Vanguard Units in general have various degrees of energy manipulation at their disposal, such as Units boosting other Unit’s with their own power as support, demonstrating that theres a common energy at play. You can see this indicated by the use of Aura as this happens.

But with the Tsukuyomi sideline specifically? We do see, for instance, a weaker version of her using energy with her attack here with her moon feat.



And when Full Moon Tsukuyomi attacks, part of her attacking phase is her using the very light of the moon itself as a beam against her opponent.



So if creation feats can only scale if theres a proven energy involved with the character, I think it should be fair to claim this is the case for Tsukuyomi.

 

[Deonment]

I'm posting this as I read through each segment, so if I switch up on how I feel about things or whatnot, that's why, anyways

Spoiler: Raise The Flag

The fighters projecting themselves over to cray is also further made consistent with the existence of G from what I remember of having watched it, and the fact being that it basically is just the core of Vanguard in the same way Buddyfight's monsters are from different worlds

Guard being statistics reduction is wrong, that feels like a production error because even mechanically, in real Vanguard guard power gets added to the defending unit than subtracted from the attacking unit (but doesn't make a mechanical difference in either case)

Takuto would also get further desc on his astral projection beyond what the average vanguarder has as he can forcibly astral project others

I see darkness manip but I don't actually see reality warping/space manip from what I can see in the video, there is no statement of it warping cray unless that's from something earlier

Portal/Electrity manip is fine

Not sure about EE

Not sure about Aichi resisting memory manip since he could have easily just excluded Aichi in the change, considering well, the entire convo he just had with Aichi

Wouldn't exactly call that self-soul manip seeing as the unit isn't manipulating it's own soul, but instead hopping in and out of the soul of others

The soul destruction on charjal wouldn't be combat applicable

(Dubbed) 8:50: Vanguard Units in general seem to have True Flight since all of Misaki and Rekka's Units, even ones who don't have wing like aerial features, can stand mid-air on a cloudy-sky battlefield on Cray.

Would call this more Free Movement

We genuinely counting that as creation? Why wouldn't it be RKE again?

Any blasting of soul into the drop zone as a cost wouldn't be non-combat applicable I'll just state as a general statement here so I don't have to repeat it each time, and honestly I'd be tempted to say it applies to all mechanics involving the soul, cept I've watched buddyfight so I wouldn't be surprised if there's things that can destroy the soul or what have you

He also has higher level Existence Erasure via retiring the boosted Unit into the drop zone.

Ali's Compass Lion has higher level Existence Erasure via retiring a Rear-Guard Unit into the drop zone.

Why is this higher, retiring is just a normal mechanic, unless we're saying destroying other cards is...

We are, aren't we?

Anyways no this wouldn't be higher level seeing as it's just destroying them without requiring combat. Retiring is like, textbook dura neg, but it also just isn't combat applicable here

In the middle of their cardfight, Aichi and Chris both hear Takuto's voice speaking telepathically to them (giving Takuto Telepathy)

I mean the first video kinda just shows that already, no? He literally was speaking to Aichi without opening his mouth when blaster blader was getting yoinked

This should give PSYqualia user's some level of Cosmic Awareness, especially since PSYqualia users become synchronized with Planet Cray anyway.

Disagree, the fight takes place on Cray to begin with, and with their soul being projected over there it's no wonder their precog allows them to see what takes place on it

(Dubbed) 6:34: Kai and Kyou are able to summon their Units to earth to battle each other instead of just battling on Planet Cray. So their Summoning gets an upgrade in it's range (Cross-Dimensional).

Interdimensional, but yeah

Ren has a talk with Aichi about PSYqualia to give him advice about it , saying users can listen to the Units voices and "all things". He also confirms to Aichi that despite using his PSYqualia often, he loses to Kai on a regular basis. So Kai at this point has much better resistance to PSYqualia's abilities.

This would also make it clear that Ren at this point uses his PSYqualia regularly, he just isn't possessed by it like he was prior to Asia Circuit. So its in character for Asia Circuit Ten to lead with PSYqualia.

Extra ESP/Enhanced Senses Ig, and with the later stuff about the Wind yeah I can see Cosmic Awareness now off the basis on being able to hear all things and sense the changes of fate and whatnot

Honestly being able to forcibly astral project others seems like a general psyquilla ability lol

Look at the above subbed clip. When Kyou and his friends try trapping Team Dreadnought in a secret warehouse, Leon says that "The Wind" already informed him that they were plotting against them. Remember, "The Wind" in this context was confirmed already to actually be PSYqualia. So this means PSYqualia is able to inform a user of what will happen to them in the future, even if it's not displayed (Leon's PSYqualia wasn't displayed when this happened). This either upgrades the Danger Sense PSYqualia users have to be future-based and passive, or this gives users Passive Clairvoyance. Kyou even comments on how Leon's rumored to have a special ability, so this is more support of this being legit for PSYqualia

It'd be the former, but ig if you'd want to call it passive sure, in the same way that like, our own 5 senses are passive given how they all seem to be passively aware of the wind on one level or another, so like

resulting in their clans vanishing and having any person on Earth associated with them losing their their decks

Well this is mildy contradicted with what we get earlier, in that the people instead get tossed around space-time as a result of what happened to their decks

Though this does make me realize, considering what exactly happened to the three clans, I wouldn't actually give Takuto memory manip, since it seems like everyone forgetting and having their memories rewritten was more as a side effect of the clans getting sealed outside space-time

3:20. Leon confirms that the space Takuto brought everyone to is in connection to Cray, and in this space, Leon confirms he can feel the power of them directly. So this confirms Leon can draw power from Cray's inhabitance via the enemy and also confirms the enemy is able to exists across different worlds, not just where Planet Cray is. Leon should also be given Energy Absorption from this when drawing in power.

I mean energy absorption is given earlier seeing as he states cray's warriors won't be able to fight when they're drained of their power

4:14. Confirmed by Suiko, Takuto made the portal he opened only able to be accessed by the chosen cardfighters from the VF circuit that were able to pass through it. This is at least Technology Manipulation.

No? Why would it be, no tech is involve, the portal was opened via psyqualia

Void

I'm a keep it a stack this villain just sounds like temu nightshroud

5:20. Takuto confirms that Void, who uses nihilistic power, is said to exist only as a will without any physical form, and possesses immeasurable power. This would make Void, and Leon who merged with and gained power from Void, abstract.

No??? I mean, I guess, if you mean in the same sense as like, IZ is, but that's just being a mind, ugh, I'm gonna have to revise AE aren't I...
Also Leon wouldn't have AE, he just seems like a vessel to the power rather then Void in of itself
Also it isn't uses, it is that nihilistic power

He explicitly ****** with memories

I mean, sure yeah, that gives him like, planetry range on such, but yeah
Also, that just, contradicts have happened earlier on in the series??? Aichi is directly implied/stated to retain full memory of having used royal paladins, and explicitly blaster blade, so why would he start crying on getting back memories he already had, this'd imply his resistance was similarly limited if he had it, to like, the same degree as like, Aichi
I love retcons

0:05. Leon, while having power from Void flow into him, states that Void is the power of nothingness. So not only does Void have Void Manipulation, but he also has Nonexistent Physiology for being nothingness.

0:20. Stated by Takuto too, Void is a fearsome power of emptiness who's enveloped half of Planet Cray already within emptiness (clear cut Void Manipulation and Nonexistent Physiology again for Void, and since Leon's merged with and gains power from Void this applies to him too) where no light can pierce it or sounds can be heard within it. Any being in contact with it becomes enveloped (This confirms The Void's Existence Erasure and that it's even potent enough to permanently destroy Cray's Units who have Mid-Godly regen).

I mean, eeeeh
Not really, in his speech about, and what is shown, we're shown things still exist and what have you, even if in an utterly ruined state, it seems more to drain things that erase them, I'm fine with NEP though ig, also no for Leon too, he's a vessel for the power not the power itself, he doesn't get NEP
Honestly if I was feeling wanky I'd say all this was conceptual to some degree given what happened to the Souryu clan and then what'd happen as a result of the void encompassing Cray, but do what thou wilt with that information

Not only that, but The Void's nothingness is not only working it's way from Cray to enter the space Takuto brought everyone to, which would make the space collapse, but also enter the human world to reach Earth and vanquish the life on it. This would give The Void Nigh Omnipresence for being able to exist across different universes.

No this'd just be multilocation

1:31. Now, im not entirely sure about this one, but Takuto confirms that the space they entered only allows the chosen cardfighters to exist inside of it and if anyone loses, whether it be Leon or them, they will be expelled from the space. I think this could be some minor Law Manipulation if checking out as that.

No it wouldn't be, just would be BFR

2:30. PSYqualia is confirmed, by Takuto, to be able to track Leon's PSYqualia to his location. Even navigating through the nothingness of Void that roams within the space. This is impressive Tracking.

I'd say ESP instead since we give that to DB Ki Sensing, but Enhanced Senses also works for me
Anyways unsure about it being impressive as a result of them navigating through such, considering he hasn't concealed his psyqualia yet, and that's what they're using to find him

4:14. Using power from Void, Leon unleashes more of its nothingness that not only makes Chris's PSYqualia react to it and cause mental pain, but it also masks his presence so that PSYqualia can't track his PSYqualia. Thus, Leon and Void get Resistance to Sensing.

Wouldn't call this resistance for Leon, seeing as he still has to activate such, it'd be closer to like, null or a stealth mastery/invis variant
>5:24. Blaster Blade now gets Soul Projection, Dimensional Travel & Resistance to Dimensional Sealing, Void Manipulation, & arguably Law Manipulation. Despite being sealed away by Void, who is nothingness, Blaster Blade's soul is able to travel all the way from Planet Cray to the space Takuto brought everyone to in order to meet with Aichi again and become a new card, despite this space only allowing certain individuals to exist within it. Blaster Blade also gets Light Manipulation & Tracking via shining a light that leads directly to Leon's location. Considering not even PSYqualia could locate Leon anymore for him masking his presence with The Voids dark aura, this is very impressive.
Still don't agree with law manip, partially disagree with void manip since while the void is hostile in one way or another (and Blaster Blader was able to reside sealed away within Void for who knows how long), it isn't actually void manip as in erasing things, considering it's nature as a nihilistic power and the fact that it doesn't seem to erase things but instead turn them to ruin I'd more call it closer to like, Corrosion Inductment and/or Absorption
Beyond that I'm fine with it

Also, as an important side note, all Vanguard Units would have their Existence Erasure upgraded by this. As Takuto himself said, Void was nearly beaten before sealing away the 3 clans, which means the Units were successfully able to fight against Void's nothingness to an extent. And as explained previously, all Units in Vanguard can erase things from existence with every kind of attack they unleash, whether its from weapons, long ranged attacks, physical strikes, or even abilities.

So now Vanguard would get the "Erase beyond nothing" type of Existence Erasure.

No absolutely not, beyond the fact that I disagree with EE (which only works whenever they beat an opponent and looks more like deconstruction than EE), this creates some circular ass reasoning about that, and ignores the obvious answer of "The Void resists EE like Vanguards do"
If we, however, decide to give them EE scaling above the void's own state of existence that scales to everyone we'd get like, Vanguard EE < Vanguard Resistances + Regen < Void EE/State Of Being < Vanguard EE < Resistances + Regen < Void EE/State of being.

We'd be scaling the capacity of void to erase, which should fundamentally be tied into it's own state of being as it is the power itself, above it's own erasure in circular scaling.

1:35. Chris uses his PSYqualia to pull Aichi's soul into another Winning Image he created where his Battler of the Twin Brush Polaris defeats Aichi, who in this image is transformed into Blond Ezel. Chris afterwards then declares the 3rd attack from Polaris will defeat Aichi as his Winning Image depicted.

2:48. Chris states that, to show how meaningless it is for Aichi to resist him, Aichi will take 3 damage on Chris's next turn, which happens to come true. Even more evidence that PSYqualia users forsee the entire cardfight once creating their Winning Images.

Bro thinks he's in the 5Ds Manga lmao

After Chris's defeat sends Team S.I.T. Genius back to Earth, Takuto states that losing a battle in this space is the same as death, even if a single team's cardfighter loses as demonstrated with Aichi beating Chris. When they lost, their right to be leaders were taken from them, so they were no longer able to even exist within that space and got sent back to Earth. This still seems to support some kind of minor Law Manipulation being at play here, especially when Aichi says this banishes the losers from the realm.

Yeah, that makes sense with this now, though it reads as the law manip being more a check for if X has happened that then triggers the BFR than the law manip itself being responsible for the BFR, and then I don't think Blaster Blader would qualify for resistance to Law Manip since by all rights it should qualify as a leader in of itself

Aichi then says later that Kai is letting forth an image of intense fury, which we see is created in the form of massive lightning inside this realm. This should give Kai better Subjective Reality. And since Aichi was able to sense this, tell that it was Kai, and notice he was fighting Leon, this is even more impressive Enhanced Senses for him, Emotion Vision.

On the one hand it's entirely possible that this is as a result of the vanguard, on the other if it is from Kai I'm not sure I'd assign this to subjective reality either.
The enhanced senses are fine though

Leon immediately leads with using his PSYqualia and not only shows Aichi his Winning Image of Blue Storm Supreme Dragon Glory Maelstrom defeating Aichi's Incandescent Lion Blond Ezel, but he also shows him Blaster Blade being killed from where he, Blaster Dark and Dragonic Overlord are sealed, using Void's nothingness, following it up by saying its a fate that can't be avoided. Not only does this extend the potency of Leon's Fate haxing and precog via PSYqualia, but it also proves PSYqualia can be used to even fatehax nothingness now, allowing interaction with Nonexistent Physiology Users officially.

That's range, first and foremost, so, mmh
Secondly, how does this increase his potency, seeing as psyqualia fates are all meant to be unavoidable
Thirdly, that isn't an actual feat for interacting with NEP seeing as we don't have a reason to assume it lacks a fate in the first place, so no

Void's nothingness starts to make the space collapse as it makes cracks in reality. Takuto states that Void destroying this realm will result in the path to Cray being cut off for eternity, allowing it to get to Earth and engulf it in nothingness next.

Yeah that's explicit space manip, though it doesn't say the path to cray will be cut off, it says that the path to saving cray will be cut off

During the cardfight, Void's nothingness attacks Aichi and makes him lose strength just by its dark aura surrounding him. As said by Kai, the space was being overfilled with nothingness, having an effect on everyone inside of it, and Aichi here was being poisoned by the nothingness. The aura is also stated by Aichi to be making him lose the drive to fight Leon as well. This would give Void Willpower Manipulation & some kind of Energy Drain.

Willpower manip is empath by our standards, beyond that yeah, also would be poison manip

Aichi was able to somewhat battle through the nothingness attacking him, so he would get resistance to Void Manipulation, Willpower Manipulation, and Energy Drain. And as Aichi passes out from the nothingness attacking him, Blaster Blade calls out and speaks to Aichi before destroying the nothingness that was surrounding him. This gives Blaster Blade Telepathy, which is impressive since Blaster Blade at this time was still sealed away by Void.

This'd be limited resistance, full resistance wants a character to no sell an effect rather than being able to function through such (and he still almost fell to it if it wasn't for Deus Ex Blade), think Yami and Yugi the duel vs Pegasus, Yami was perfectly fine in the shadow game, Yugi couldn't really last in such an environment, former is full, latter is limited.
Also I'd give him power null for getting rid of the nothingness tbh, also he wasn't still sealed away at this point? Or at least his soul wasn't considering he explicitly went to Aichi earlier (unless there's something that happened in between the two scenes that caused him to have to leave)

After bringing forth Blazing Lion Platina Ezel, an interesting feat comes. When Aichi unleashes a bright aura, Leon states that "The Wind" stopped. Remember, "The Wind" = PSYqualia. And Aichi still has his PSYqualia in use during this fight. So this seems to mean that Aichi's PSYqualia can actually negate the effects of Leons and make it useless. This gives Aichi's PSYqualia (and only Aichi's PSYqualia) Power Nullification.

Well firstly, Aichi did seem to have an aura of wind around him during the start, so it's entirely possible that rather than simply negate it, his psyqualia reached a point beyond Leon's and thus the wind stopped blowing for him and started blowing for Aichi instead, but eh.
Also psyqualia as a whole should prolly get Wind Manip seeing as Leon and Aichi both have it manifest as wind (and at the end Aichi's psyqualia literally caused the last card of damage to blow right onto the rest of the stack, which is, something lmao), and there are prolly other examples around too
Beyond potentially negating Leon's psyqualia, Aichi also visibly blasted away/nulled the void/nothingness around him, so one could choose to give him power null for that

Ezel (who's revealed to actually be Takuto)

Feels like a no duh moment tbh since the first duel lol
Anyways the rest is fine, I will reiterate my issues with assuming anything soul-related in this blog is offensively applicable, and the same goes with retirement

Void would also get 10-0'd by my GOAT Yamigeddo but that's neither here nor there

Honestly I think You'd be better off creating a Verse P&A/Explantion Page for psyqualia at some point, and with everything it says I think psyqualia reads like (The Power Of) Fate itself, than an external power that manipulates it tbh considering everything to do with the wind (which I also wonder if it has something to do with the same wind that the Souryu lost when the Aqua Force got sealed away, and considering the ability of Vanguards to have and awaken psyqualia that seems to be the case).

There we go

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Honestly I think You'd be better off creating a Verse P&A/Explantion Page for psyqualia at some point, and with everything it says I think psyqualia reads like (The Power Of) Fate itself, than an external power that manipulates it tbh considering everything to do with the wind (which I also wonder if it has something to do with the same wind that the Souryu lost when the Aqua Force got sealed away, and considering the ability of Vanguards to have and awaken psyqualia that seems to be the case).

No you're right. It's one of the many things I plan to do with the verse, or planned to do and just haven't gotten to pull off yet. There's a lot of work to do for Vanguard. A bunch of lore & later info to take into account that would make the verse much more than what it is now, just getting to it one season at a time.

Anyways, I very much appreciate the feedback. I'll respond back.

Spoiler: Response to Deonment

Guard being statistics reduction is wrong, that feels like a production error because even mechanically, in real Vanguard guard power gets added to the defending unit than subtracted from the attacking unit (but doesn't make a mechanical difference in either case)

The reason I argue this as statistics reduction is that in the anime, the guard power is able to weaken opposing Units attacks when subtracting their power in comparison. It is something we have actually seen on multiple occasions happen rather than it just being assumed.

Takuto would also get further desc on his astral projection beyond what the average vanguarder has as he can forcibly astral project others

Wouldn't this be, I guess in more simple terms, basically soul manipulation? Since your forcibly astral projecting others souls?

I see darkness manip but I don't actually see reality warping/space manip from what I can see in the video, there is no statement of it warping cray unless that's from something earlier

Yeah that's explicit space manip, though it doesn't say the path to cray will be cut off, it says that the path to saving cray will be cut off

You know what, fair. I saw below that you were fine with his from Void cracking reality anyway, so I can drop this part.

Not sure about EE

Well, the EE would partly be because Void is literally nothingness.

Not sure about Aichi resisting memory manip since he could have easily just excluded Aichi in the change, considering well, the entire convo he just had with Aichi.

Well this is mildy contradicted with what we get earlier, in that the people instead get tossed around space-time as a result of what happened to their decks

Though this does make me realize, considering what exactly happened to the three clans, I wouldn't actually give Takuto memory manip, since it seems like everyone forgetting and having their memories rewritten was more as a side effect of the clans getting sealed outside space-time

I think you might've misinterpreted this part a bit. Yes, Void capturing the 3 clans did have an effect on earth by making the decks of those clans vanish. But when Takuto's role in the season is revealed later, he does confirm that he manipulated everyone's memories & switched their decks that used the captured clans with new ones (Gold Paladin & Narukami) in order to find qualified cardfighters to help stop The Void. Daigo is the only fighter we know of who was able to keep his Royal Paladin deck, but got swept up in the space-time warp as the consequence of that. It's likely that happened to him before Takuto switched everyone's decks, as Daigo confirms this happened to him months before the start of Asia Circuit. Otherwise, everyone else who used the old clans, like Aichi, Kai and Ren, got manipulated into using the new ones. Perhaps you could argue Void took the old decks away as a side effect, & Takuto just slotted in the new ones, but the memories being effected by this would be from Takuto.

Also, that just, contradicts have happened earlier on in the series??? Aichi is directly implied/stated to retain full memory of having used royal paladins, and explicitly blaster blade, so why would he start crying on getting back memories he already had, this'd imply his resistance was similarly limited if he had it, to like, the same degree as like, Aichi
I love retcons

Throughout Asia Circuit, Aichi does have significant recollection of Blaster Blade & the clans Void captured as he fights with the goal of learning the truth about what happened to them. Shown by what happens when Takuto restores those memories for everyone, I would say Aichi did have some memories of his manipulated, but it should still count as resistance since he, for the most part, kept most of his memories of them. For instance, we see Aichi be aware that Blaster Blade & Royal Paladin is his proper deck, but Takuto made him remember that Kai gave him Blaster Blade in the first place.

Compared to say, Kai & Ren, whose memories got almost 100% altered & erased after Takuto encountered them. Kai only had glimpses of memories of Blaster Blade after this happened & Ren just instinctively knew Gold Paladin wasn't his proper clan (but still didn't actually remember his Shadow Paladins until later).

Wouldn't exactly call that self-soul manip seeing as the unit isn't manipulating it's own soul, but instead hopping in and out of the soul of others

The soul destruction on charjal wouldn't be combat applicable

Any blasting of soul into the drop zone as a cost wouldn't be non-combat applicable I'll just state as a general statement here so I don't have to repeat it each time, and honestly I'd be tempted to say it applies to all mechanics involving the soul, cept I've watched buddyfight so I wouldn't be surprised if there's things that can destroy the soul or what have you

Oh yeah, my bad, I actually meant to note this out in the blog that most of this wouldn't be compatible applicable as it's not offensive, in terms of effecting the opponent. Its defensive as it for the most part only effects the user/their Units.

That said, the reason I called this self-soul manipulation is because in Vanguard, when you enter a Vanguard's soul, you are actually becoming a literal soul yourself. So I considered this self-soul manipulation in the sense that your converting yourself into a soul when hopping in and out.

The only actual offensive hax the soul mechanic would give Units, that counts as combat applicable, is passive power boosting via having specific units in the soul to trigger a power increase. And of course having more souls within yourself.

Would call this more Free Movement

I see. I wasn't aware this was a real ability on the site. That's my bad.

Would True Flight be applicable if, say, the Units could do the same thing in mid air with no clouds or anything to use as platforms? Like here

If not, then I'm fine with changing this to Free Movement.

We genuinely counting that as creation? Why wouldn't it be RKE again?

Well for context, unlike Tsukuyomi's other Moon feats, in this particular battle, Misaki and her opponent's Units were fighting each other deep underwater in Cray's oceans. It would be one thing if they were fighting in Cray's skies, or on dry land, where you're in direct range of the moon. However, its of course not possible to summon an already pre-existing celestial body like the moon, and entire stars, to physically appear underwater.

With the moon & stars appearing around them there & then vanishing once Tsukuyomi's attack was successfully blocked, making the area back into being underwater, it would make more sense in this context here to argue that the space around them was warped into a starry space that Tsukuyomi created momentarily for her attack.

Why is this higher, retiring is just a normal mechanic, unless we're saying destroying other cards is...

I'll rephrase. Instead of "higher", I'll say "additional".

Disagree, the fight takes place on Cray to begin with, and with their soul being projected over there it's no wonder their precog allows them to see what takes place on it

Extra ESP/Enhanced Senses Ig, and with the later stuff about the Wind yeah I can see Cosmic Awareness now off the basis on being able to hear all things and sense the changes of fate and whatnot

This is probably my bad as well for not giving better explanations for how these coincide with each other, but yeah, this is where the Cosmic Awareness would come from. PSYqualia lets users hear the voices of their Units, of "All things" and by being synchronized with Planet Cray, they have awareness of activity going on in the world.

It'd be the former, but ig if you'd want to call it passive sure, in the same way that like, our own 5 senses are passive given how they all seem to be passively aware of the wind on one level or another, so like

Yeah, whenever Leon says "The Wind" that's just his way of saying fate, same way as when speaking about the wind assisting him, it's his PSYqualia. Anyways, good here then, its pretty much a limited passive clairvoyance then if I read your comment here right.

No? Why would it be, no tech is involve, the portal was opened via psyqualia

Yes, but I was referring to this part. And this part.

Takuto on earth has a platform he activated with PSYqualia to open up the path to Cray, and when anyone other than the chosen cardfighters tried to enter it, they were banned from doing so.

I wasn't entirely sure what else this would be other than of course portal creation & technology manipulation, especially the latter part.

No??? I mean, I guess, if you mean in the same sense as like, IZ is, but that's just being a mind, ugh, I'm gonna have to revise AE aren't I...
Also Leon wouldn't have AE, he just seems like a vessel to the power rather then Void in of itself
Also it isn't uses, it is that nihilistic power

I meant to specify on this part, but yeah, based off cases like Infinite Zamasu, existing as a will or mind seems to be enough for Type 1 AE?

Leon not getting it either way im fine with since the Void was using him as a vessel to its nothingness.

I mean, eeeeh
Not really, in his speech about, and what is shown, we're shown things still exist and what have you, even if in an utterly ruined state, it seems more to drain things that erase them, I'm fine with NEP though ig, also no for Leon too, he's a vessel for the power not the power itself, he doesn't get NEP

Actually, Cray still exists since the Void was being resisted by the planets Units here. In fact, Takuto heavily implied that Cray would've been able to successfully defend against the Void if it didn't steal the 3 clans that were the strongest in the resistance. So that would help explain why Cray wouldn't have been instantly eviscerated by the nothingness.

And if I may ask, I understand Leon not getting AE, but his body was merged with The Void's nothingness when being used as a vessel. Wouldn't that be enough for NEP?

No this'd just be multilocation

I recently became aware of this power as well, so i'm fine with changing that to this.

No it wouldn't be, just would be BFR

Yeah, that makes sense with this now, though it reads as the law manip being more a check for if X has happened that then triggers the BFR than the law manip itself being responsible for the BFR, and then I don't think Blaster Blader would qualify for resistance to Law Manip since by all rights it should qualify as a leader in of itself

Yeah this is why I considered this as possible law manipulation, since Takuto is making it so that only the chosen cardfighters he gave permission to could enter this space, and by losing, they lost their right to be a chosen leader and are no longer allowed to even exist there. The latter needs for X to happen first yeah, but Takuto is making it so that only specific individuals he wanted can exist within that space.

Blaster Blade is the only one who entered that space forcibly on his own without any outside assistance letting his soul enter it, like if Aichi summoned him there or whatnot.

I'd say ESP instead since we give that to DB Ki Sensing, but Enhanced Senses also works for me

Fair enough, whichever one is more appropriate works for me.

Wouldn't call this resistance for Leon, seeing as he still has to activate such, it'd be closer to like, null or a stealth mastery/invis variant

You know what that's fair for me too, I didn't know what else to call this at the time, this works out better.

Still don't agree with law manip, partially disagree with void manip since while the void is hostile in one way or another (and Blaster Blader was able to reside sealed away within Void for who knows how long), it isn't actually void manip as in erasing things, considering it's nature as a nihilistic power and the fact that it doesn't seem to erase things but instead turn them to ruin I'd more call it closer to like, Corrosion Inductment and/or Absorption.

The law manipulation & void manipulation part you can see above where I explained on that more.

No absolutely not, beyond the fact that I disagree with EE (which only works whenever they beat an opponent and looks more like deconstruction than EE), this creates some circular ass reasoning about that, and ignores the obvious answer of "The Void resists EE like Vanguards do"
If we, however, decide to give them EE scaling above the void's own state of existence that scales to everyone we'd get like, Vanguard EE < Vanguard Resistances + Regen < Void EE/State Of Being < Vanguard EE < Resistances + Regen < Void EE/State of being.

Just to shed some light and context on this to clear some stuff up.

Units in Vanguard, as of now. only have resistance to EE when they're being used as Vanguards by the cardfighters themselves (like Aichi riding Blaster Blade, or Kai riding Dragonic Overlord). The resistance isn't something they have on their own, its something they get from the fighters.

But as for the EE itself? This is the main reasoning for EE. It may appear like deconstruction, but the argument for it rising to EE is because the Units are being completely destroyed in vanguard battles with no traces left. The body, mind & soul are all completely destroyed. This is shown with Aichi and Kai's battle, for example. When Blaster Blade defeats Dragonic Overlord, Kai's vanguard is eradicated completely with no trace left, reducing Kai back into being only a spirit. If anything less than the souls was only what was targeted, this wouldn't have happened.

To coincide with this, we know Vanguard attacks can affect & destroy souls, like here, and we also know that Units inside of the Vanguard's owl soul are actual souls themselves. So for the Vanguard, which gets destroyed in the same manner as other Units, to be completely eradicated, this means that attacks from the Units are also targeting the soul, since the Units within the Vanguard's soul are also getting destroyed.

Because of all of this, this would have to rise beyond deconstruction.

On the one hand it's entirely possible that this is as a result of the vanguard, on the other if it is from Kai I'm not sure I'd assign this to subjective reality either.
The enhanced senses are fine though

In Vanguard battles, cardfighters do everything through their imagination, actually. That's why Aichi called this an intense image of anger. That's why I considered this subjective reality.

That's range, first and foremost, so, mmh
Secondly, how does this increase his potency, seeing as psyqualia fates are all meant to be unavoidable
Thirdly, that isn't an actual feat for interacting with NEP seeing as we don't have a reason to assume it lacks a fate in the first place, so no

Range yes, but for potency? Im referring to PSYqualia's fate manip working on nothingness.

And on that note, I wouldn't see why we wouldn't assume nothingness would lack fate since it's...nonexistent. It should by default not have a fate unless im missing something.

This'd be limited resistance, full resistance wants a character to no sell an effect rather than being able to function through such (and he still almost fell to it if it wasn't for Deus Ex Blade), think Yami and Yugi the duel vs Pegasus, Yami was perfectly fine in the shadow game, Yugi couldn't really last in such an environment, former is full, latter is limited.

Fair enough here.

Also I'd give him power null for getting rid of the nothingness tbh

I see.

also he wasn't still sealed away at this point? Or at least his soul wasn't considering he explicitly went to Aichi earlier (unless there's something that happened in between the two scenes that caused him to have to leave).

Blaster Blade's physical body was still sealed away within the Void like the other clans were, but his soul was able to escape and go fight by Aichi's side as Blaster Blade Spirit, a new Unit.

Well firstly, Aichi did seem to have an aura of wind around him during the start, so it's entirely possible that rather than simply negate it, his psyqualia reached a point beyond Leon's and thus the wind stopped blowing for him and started blowing for Aichi instead, but eh.
Also psyqualia as a whole should prolly get Wind Manip seeing as Leon and Aichi both have it manifest as wind (and at the end Aichi's psyqualia literally caused the last card of damage to blow right onto the rest of the stack, which is, something lmao), and there are prolly other examples around too
Beyond potentially negating Leon's psyqualia, Aichi also visibly blasted away/nulled the void/nothingness around him, so one could choose to give him power null for that

The thing is though is that we have seen PSYqualia users battle each other before, and in those cases, PSYqualia is still able to operate. If one loses, its as you said, ones reached a point beyond the others and overcame it. L

In this case, though, Leon specifically mentioned that his PSYqualia (wind) stopped when Aichi made that glow with his PSYqualia. It would seem to indicate that Aichi did more than just go beyond Leon's PSYqualia. He seemed to have rendered it useless all together, which appears more to be as power null.

Also yeah, I somehow missed wind manipulation. But yeah both should be appropriate here, especially if dispelling nothingness can count as power null too.

Void would also get 10-0'd by my GOAT Yamigeddo but that's neither here nor there

Just wait until you see later lore about the Void before thinking Yamigeddo wins

Funny enough you mention Buddyfight when it and Vanguard are technically supposed to exist in the same verse too u.u

 

[Deonment]

The reason I argue this as statistics reduction is that in the anime, the guard power is able to weaken opposing Units attacks when subtracting their power in comparison. It is something we have actually seen on multiple occasions happen rather than it just being assumed.

I mean, ig, sure then

Wouldn't this be, I guess in more simple terms, basically soul manipulation? Since your forcibly astral projecting others souls?

I mean yeah, but it's extra definition on what they can do with astral projection, and it could very well just be a general PSYqualia power tbh

Well, the EE would partly be because Void is literally nothingness.

Well, no we don't assume that, and the after affects of void we see in the one flashforwards isn't an earth that's completely erased, but an earth that's in utter ruins, deserts, and crumbled buildings as seen here

Takuto Memory stuff

Yeah I agreed later on once I saw the one video, still find it wack but him being responsible for it is just true

Oh yeah, my bad, I actually meant to note this out in the blog that most of this wouldn't be compatible applicable as it's not offensive, in terms of effecting the opponent. Its defensive as it for the most part only effects the user/their Units.

That said, the reason I called this self-soul manipulation is because in Vanguard, when you enter a Vanguard's soul, you are actually becoming a literal soul yourself. So I considered this self-soul manipulation in the sense that your converting yourself into a soul when hopping in and out.

Yeah I know what the soul is from Buddyfight, though my main issue is mostly with the terming here, as self soul manip implies they're changing their own soul

Would True Flight be applicable if, say, the Units could do the same thing in mid air with no clouds or anything to use as platforms? Like here

Mildy seems like he's still standing on the clouds, but yeah, wouldn't be the only time bushiroad does that

Yes, but I was referring to this part. And this part.

Takuto on earth has a platform he activated with PSYqualia to open up the path to Cray, and when anyone other than the chosen cardfighters tried to enter it, they were banned from doing so.

I wasn't entirely sure what else this would be other than of course portal creation & technology manipulation, especially the latter part.

It's just portal creation I don't actually see anything that implies the platform itself is responsible for the effect (or the portal) to be completely honest, if you want to designate it as something, I'd just point to and say it's prolly the law manip at play again

I meant to specify on this part, but yeah, based off cases like Infinite Zamasu, existing as a will or mind seems to be enough for Type 1 AE?

Yeah but my issue is that that's effectively just basic incorp at some level, and so distinguishing between the two is a mite bit ******, though I do remember this line from AE

Abstract Existence is the ability to embody an abstraction, such as a concept, thought, or information, and being immortal thanks to it. This power has a variety of uses, ranging from a high degree of control over the abstraction and its manifestations, the aforementioned immortality, or even being unaffected by abilities that can't target the abstraction.

So AE seems to specifically require being linked into or immortal as a result of such a state, which
I guess it works as a delineating factor, but then we go into questions of why that'd make you harder to touch than basic levels of incorp/intang and like, that's a whole other thread, prolly a staff one, if I ever get around to doing something about it

Actually, Cray still exists since the Void was being resisted by the planets Units here. In fact, Takuto heavily implied that Cray would've been able to successfully defend against the Void if it didn't steal the 3 clans that were the strongest in the resistance. So that would help explain why Cray wouldn't have been instantly eviscerated by the nothingness.

Well no, that doesn't exactly explain why the terrain is around then, and part of the argument for the void in the blog is that it's capable of permanently erasing units, and yet here it's being argued that they're still capable of resisting such, which is some level of circular.
It's less implied and more stated, but yes, but that doesn't contend the fact that it's very much shown to not actually erase things that have no reason to not be erased by it

And if I may ask, I understand Leon not getting AE, but his body was merged with The Void's nothingness when being used as a vessel. Wouldn't that be enough for NEP?

He clearly still exists, he's harboring and using the power, but he clearly isn't void proper

Blaster Blade is the only one who entered that space forcibly on his own without any outside assistance letting his soul enter it, like if Aichi summoned him there or whatnot.

I still don't think he should get law manip resistance (well maybe considering what I said above) seeing he's still considered a leader, so he should be able to exist within there fine, and it'd be a BFR resistance since the law just triggers the BFR, it's not like the law is the bfr itself

The law manipulation & void manipulation part you can see above where I explained on that more.

See the above, still somewhat disagree with void manip

Vanguard EE stuff

Honestly, that is a matter for a separate thread, in any case it doesn't actually change my point that the void can simply just have resistance rather than them being capable of erasing it

And on that note, I wouldn't see why we wouldn't assume nothingness would lack fate since it's...nonexistent. It should by default not have a fate unless im missing something.

We don't assume anything about the aspects of a character's existence unless stated/shown/implied. That applies to NEP also, unless something indicates towards the idea that Void lacks a fate to be manipulated, then we don't assume it has a nonexistent fate as a result of just not existing

Blaster Blade's physical body was still sealed away within the Void like the other clans were, but his soul was able to escape and go fight by Aichi's side as Blaster Blade Spirit, a new Unit.

Yeah, Ik, I was pointing that out since then the Telepathy wasn't all that (comparatively) impressive, seeing as he is literally right there

The thing is though is that we have seen PSYqualia users battle each other before, and in those cases, PSYqualia is still able to operate. If one loses, its as you said, ones reached a point beyond the others and overcame it. L

In this case, though, Leon specifically mentioned that his PSYqualia (wind) stopped when Aichi made that glow with his PSYqualia. It would seem to indicate that Aichi did more than just go beyond Leon's PSYqualia. He seemed to have rendered it useless all together, which appears more to be as power null.

Eh, nuetral, leaning towards agree

Also yeah, I somehow missed wind manipulation. But yeah both should be appropriate here, especially if dispelling nothingness can count as power null too.

Also I'd give him power null for getting rid of the nothingness tbh

Eh, changed my mind on it, I think past me was thinking that the nothingness was the effects in of itself than being the cause of such, and so blowing it away (and thus, literally blowing away powers) was messing with hax and thus power null, this is just NPI actually

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well, no we don't assume that, and the after affects of void we see in the one flashforwards isn't an earth that's completely erased, but an earth that's in utter ruins, deserts, and crumbled buildings as seen here

Well no, that doesn't exactly explain why the terrain is around then, and part of the argument for the void in the blog is that it's capable of permanently erasing units, and yet here it's being argued that they're still capable of resisting such, which is some level of circular.
It's less implied and more stated, but yes, but that doesn't contend the fact that it's very much shown to not actually erase things that have no reason to not be erased by it

I see. FYI, when I say the units "resist" Void, I mean they're able to destroy its nothingness. Not resist in the literal sense of actually not being effected by it. They can hold the Void at bay by dissipating its nothingness on Cray, so it doesn't get as far as doing that. Like how we see it done here.

Having said that, perhaps I should wait for a later thread to argue this then, as later stuff can provide stronger arguments for this, but I haven't yet gotten to that point of covering the later material in blogs.

At the very least then, this should be void manipulation for, well, self-explanatory reasons. Would space-time erasure be a sufficient replacement for now since Void was making reality crumble within that space?

Yeah I know what the soul is from Buddyfight, though my main issue is mostly with the terming here, as self soul manip implies they're changing their own soul

Gotcha. Would there be a better title to categorize this under?

Mildy seems like he's still standing on the clouds, but yeah, wouldn't be the only time bushiroad does that.

Fair enough. Either one works for me whichever is more appropriate.

It's just portal creation I don't actually see anything that implies the platform itself is responsible for the effect (or the portal) to be completely honest, if you want to designate it as something, I'd just point to and say it's prolly the law manip at play again.

Fair here as well.

Yeah but my issue is that that's effectively just basic incorp at some level, and so distinguishing between the two is a mite bit ******, though I do remember this line from AE

So AE seems to specifically require being linked into or immortal as a result of such a state, which
I guess it works as a delineating factor, but then we go into questions of why that'd make you harder to touch than basic levels of incorp/intang and like, that's a whole other thread, prolly a staff one, if I ever get around to doing something about it

Hmm I see. Perhaps this requires a thread on AE as a whole. As far as immortality goes, I think being a nonexistent being would qualify for that just off the basis of not actually existing to begin with. So it comes down to whether existing as a will/thought is able to qualify as that.

He clearly still exists, he's harboring and using the power, but he clearly isn't void proper.

I see

I still don't think he should get law manip resistance (well maybe considering what I said above) seeing he's still considered a leader, so he should be able to exist within there fine, and it'd be a BFR resistance since the law just triggers the BFR, it's not like the law is the bfr itself.

Yeah, but the thing is that Takuto was referring to the cardfighters here as the leaders, not the Units themselves. More importantly, Takuto had no awareness or way of knowing that Blaster Blade would come to that space to aid Aichi, he was surprised when that happened. That would imply that he didn't have Blaster Blade in mind when it comes to who he was allowing to enter that dimension.

Honestly, that is a matter for a separate thread, in any case it doesn't actually change my point that the void can simply just have resistance rather than them being capable of erasing it.

What are you referring to on this part that I bolded out?

We don't assume anything about the aspects of a character's existence unless stated/shown/implied. That applies to NEP also, unless something indicates towards the idea that Void lacks a fate to be manipulated, then we don't assume it has a nonexistent fate as a result of just not existing.

Im not really sure why that would need to be stated in this case? It seems to be more stating the obvious. It begs the question on why would we assume something that's nonexistent would then have a fate to begin with?

Eh, nuetral, leaning towards agree

Eh, changed my mind on it, I think past me was thinking that the nothingness was the effects in of itself than being the cause of such, and so blowing it away (and thus, literally blowing away powers) was messing with hax and thus power null, this is just NPI actually

Fair enough? Then it should be power null for just rendering Leon's PSYqualia useless all together, and then NPI for dispelling nothingness.

 

[Deonment]

At the very least then, this should be void manipulation for, well, self-explanatory reasons. Would space-time erasure be a sufficient replacement for now since Void was making reality crumble within that space?

Yeah, though I'm unsure as to how applicable it'd be to resistances with how long it takes, but go ahead

Gotcha. Would there be a better title to categorize this under?

Limited Shapeshifting/Incorp maybe, seeing as they can turn themselves back and forth into a soul

Hmm I see. Perhaps this requires a thread on AE as a whole. As far as immortality goes, I think being a nonexistent being would qualify for that just off the basis of not actually existing to begin with. So it comes down to whether existing as a will/thought is able to qualify as that.

Well no we don't assume that either about nep
But anyways yeah AE is fine with how our current standards are, though AE generally wants the character to be immortal as a result of either being or embodying an abstraction

Yeah, but the thing is that Takuto was referring to the cardfighters here as the leaders, not the Units themselves. More importantly, Takuto had no awareness or way of knowing that Blaster Blade would come to that space to aid Aichi, he was surprised when that happened. That would imply that he didn't have Blaster Blade in mind when it comes to who he was allowing to enter that dimension.

Eh, sure

What are you referring to on this part that I bolded out?

The OP is currently arguing that Vanguard Units have the ability to erase nothingness through erasing the Void when that just isn't the case. The Void still "exists" and all and fought on Cray for who knows how long, and as we see in the ending they don't actually erase the Void, they dispel it until it flees when it realizes that it's losing.

I'm saying that just shouldn't be the case, and at most the Void has resistance to EE, considering it fought Vanguard Units for who knows how long.

Im not really sure why that would need to be stated in this case? It seems to be more stating the obvious. It begs the question on why would we assume something that's nonexistent would then have a fate to begin with?

Because we only assume a character lacks what has been shown rather than lacking everything just because they don't exist, it's why the separation out of aspects is a thing rn compared to the old days (that I know you are aware of) where NEP 1 just gave you auto immunity to anything without interaction.

Fair enough? Then it should be power null for just rendering Leon's PSYqualia useless all together, and then NPI for dispelling nothingness.

Yeah

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah, though I'm unsure as to how applicable it'd be to resistances with how long it takes, but go ahead

In fairness, Void was doing this with just its nothingness being present there, so it's pretty casual. But other than that, yeah.

Limited Shapeshifting/Incorp maybe, seeing as they can turn themselves back and forth into a soul

Looking more closely at how we define both pages, it does seem Limited Incorporeality would fit as a better category than self soul manip. Im good with this then and can update the blogs accordingly to reflect this.

Well no we don't assume that either about nep
But anyways yeah AE is fine with how our current standards are, though AE generally wants the character to be immortal as a result of either being or embodying an abstraction

Good.

The OP is currently arguing that Vanguard Units have the ability to erase nothingness through erasing the Void when that just isn't the case. The Void still "exists" and all and fought on Cray for who knows how long, and as we see in the ending they don't actually erase the Void, they dispel it until it flees when it realizes that it's losing.

I'm saying that just shouldn't be the case, and at most the Void has resistance to EE, considering it fought Vanguard Units for who knows how long.

I se now, thats fair, but wouldn't dispelling some of its nothingness to the point that Void was forced to flee the planet still mean they're destroying it? Not Void itself, but the trace amounts of nothingness it gave off to consume Cray?

In fact, wouldn't this arguably mean both? Void has EE resistance since it wasn't completely eradicated, but the nothingness it did unleash onto the planet was dispelled?

Because we only assume a character lacks what has been shown rather than lacking everything just because they don't exist, it's why the separation out of aspects is a thing rn compared to the old days (that I know you are aware of) where NEP 1 just gave you auto immunity to anything without interaction.

Okay I see. So in this case, a statement like it erasing fate or eradicating fates into nothing and whatnot would be needed to claim the nothingness lacks it?

 

[Deonment]

I se now, thats fair, but wouldn't dispelling some of its nothingness to the point that Void was forced to flee the planet still mean they're destroying it? Not Void itself, but the trace amounts of nothingness it gave off to consume Cray?

In fact, wouldn't this arguably mean both? Void has EE resistance since it wasn't completely eradicated, but the nothingness it did unleash onto the planet was dispelled?

Well no, because they aren't erasing it, they are pretty visibly dispelling it (ala like, a wind blowing away a cloud of X harmful substance, can't think up a specific example but it's common enough in anime that you'll get the idea)

And yes I'd give it like, EE resist since it's still around but I'm not exactly for granting them NEP erasure, seeing as they never properly erased it to begin with (and most of my issues come with the implication that every Vanguard can as a result erase people to said level, despite the issues that'd cause)

Okay I see. So in this case, a statement like it erasing fate or eradicating fates into nothing and whatnot would be needed to claim the nothingness lacks it?

Yeah

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

My apologies, I've been sidetracked the past 2-3 days before I could get back to this.

Well no, because they aren't erasing it, they are pretty visibly dispelling it (ala like, a wind blowing away a cloud of X harmful substance, can't think up a specific example but it's common enough in anime that you'll get the idea)

And yes I'd give it like, EE resist since it's still around but I'm not exactly for granting them NEP erasure, seeing as they never properly erased it to begin with (and most of my issues come with the implication that every Vanguard can as a result erase people to said level, despite the issues that'd cause)

Ahh. Would Non-Physical Interaction thats specified to allow interaction with non-existence for dispelling it be more appropriate?

 

[Deonment]

Ahh. Would Non-Physical Interaction thats specified to allow interaction with non-existence for dispelling it be more appropriate?

Yeah, though just writing it down as NPI on NEP would be fine in any case

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah, though just writing it down as NPI on NEP would be fine in any case

Okay this sounds good then. If there's no other suggestions or comments, I'll take it that everything mentioned so far has been agreed on / gotten a new agreement on as something else instead.

 

[Deonment]

Okay this sounds good then. If there's no other suggestions or comments, I'll take it that everything mentioned so far has been agreed on / gotten a new agreement on as something else instead.

Yeah
Edit: Well I don't think I touched the 4-A stuff again, but eh, I'll leave that to the staff

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Snip

Snip

As far as the 4-A aspect of the revision goes, what do you guys think of this I provided?

Okay I see now.

As far as the level of effort put into the feat, it definitely isn’t a “last resort” type of one. Full Moon Tsukuyomi did this feat pretty casually when preparing her attack against Misaki’s opponent. And for the whole rideline (by that I mean Crescent, Half, & Full Moon Tsukuyomi, weakest to strongest versions), all of their feats that as of now, reach High 4-C, are done pretty handily.

For the point on this being done with energy / a UES, I believe this follows that. Vanguard Units in general have various degrees of energy manipulation at their disposal, such as Units boosting other Unit’s with their own power as support, demonstrating that theres a common energy at play. You can see this indicated by the use of Aura as this happens.

But with the Tsukuyomi sideline specifically? We do see, for instance, a weaker version of her using energy with her attack here with her moon feat.



And when Full Moon Tsukuyomi attacks, part of her attacking phase is her using the very light of the moon itself as a beam against her opponent.



So if creation feats can only scale if theres a proven energy involved with the character, I think it should be fair to claim this is the case for Tsukuyomi.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

bump

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

bump

 

[SomebodyData]

As far as the 4-A aspect of the revision goes, what do you guys think of this I provided?

Don't get me wrong, this is pretty good supporting evidence. But I think establishing a UES might need its own thread. Especially, in cases where its not explicitly stated to be a UES.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Don't get me wrong, this is pretty good supporting evidence. But I think establishing a UES might need its own thread. Especially, in cases where its not explicitly stated to be a UES.

Ah okay gotcha. For what its worth, theres definitely more in depth lore for the Units in vanguard having their own energy system outright mentioned, but this is mainly card lore and whatnot that will require threads later down the line to be made for them specifically to qualify, rather than just going off of the anime material i'm using here.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Bump