The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

[Antvasima]

Not really, my dude.

In the "Crossroads Saga", Hulk is represented as an incarnation of Bruce Banner's pent-up sadness and misery yet is more than willing to help out those who befriend him.

Even Doctor Doom pointed out that Bruce Banner is the more morally flawed one, Hulk is just the scapegoat who absorbs all of Bruce's self-loathing.

It's called nuance.

The childlike Hulk, sure. Several other personalities, definitely not.

 

[Antvasima]

I meant while he’s destroying stuff, the scans I linked to(idk why my Link doesn’t work) were specifically saying hulk has destroyed entire cities without killing a single person, you don’t destroy a city without killing anyone unless you’re going out of your way to not kill anyone

And even if we accept that extremely unlikely premise, that still doesn't make it okay to destroy the homes of millions of people.

 

[Entity]

As far as I recall, he was about to give a thumbs down in traditional colloseum style, to force the heroes to kill each other, and was just interrupted.

"We came here for justice, not murder. So no one on your planet has died by our hands and no one will. But we'll make sure no one on Earth will ever forget what you are" He's also the one who stops Reed from killing Tony

Even if we accept that strange premise as correct, to almost quote the voice of the author in World War Hulk: "So that makes it okay to destroy millions of people's homes?"

After what he thought they had done to him? Almost right

Well, it is still a core part of his identity.

He's also clearly different from the person he was at that moment

That is not really how I read that storyline.

That is really what happens, if you didn't read it like that then I don't know what you read

Honestly, what were they supposed to do? The Hulk has been an unchecked force of destruction for a long time, and they tried to send him to a friendly and beautiful planet, which is better than he deserves

It's exactly that kind of mindset that always brings to those situations, Hulk and Banner are broken men who need help, not be treated as monsters or forces of destruction, they're also friends and heroes who saved the world more than once, they cannot be reduced to the destruction, he deserves better

And again, even if they had actually done what the Hulk thought they did, why did he feel the need to mostly involve innocent people?

He did not, that is why he gave everyone the time to evacuate the city

 

[Antvasima]

I agree about that Banner needs serious serious psychiatric help, as he is extremely mentally ill, but the point is what about everyone else's rights to not have their lives destroyed by the Hulk? He almost exclusively destroys all of the belongings of innocent people, and it is absurd to think that none of them have been killed whenever he does so.

He is an unchecked force of destruction empowered by hatred and by a demonic force of pure evil, so he cannot just sit down and peacefully receive therapy for many years, and remains a massive threat to all of the life on his Earth. So again, the rights of billions of people together greatly supercede his own.

 

[Entity]

I agree about that Banner needs serious serious psychiatric help, as he is extremely mentally ill, but the point is what about everyone else's rights to not have their lives destroyed by the Hulk? He almost exclusively destroys all of the belongings of innocent people, and it is absurd to think that none of them have been killed whenever he does so.

And always saves bilions of lives whenever it's needed, without him many people, if not all of Earth's population would be dead, because, again, he's not a villain and not only a force of destruction. The only persona of Hulk who loses control like that is also the child, the others are either provoked or manipulated.

He is an unchecked force of destruction empowered by hatred and by a demonic force of pure evil

Being empowered by evil really means nothing, it all depends on how he uses his power. And again, he saved the world multiple times and most importantly, wants to use his power for that, saving people.

So again, the rights of billions of people together greatly supercede his own.

People alive thanks to him being there with them.

I don't understand how your favorite heroes are Superman-like characters when you think like General Ross

 

[MrKerf]

I feel like it boils down to the “mutants” problem. “Does X (here Hulk) deserves a pass on destroying stuff? Killing people? Do we have any solutions?”

Just like with mutants - writing is ass. Just like with mutants who can’t control their powers they have an easy solution (power dampening collars) to save them and the people around. Hulk too has such solutions (one I can think is Gamma free room Strange has). So any power they have or any power the world requires can be accessed on demand at that specific needed moment without endangering humanity.

But obviously, that’s not how stories work.

 

[Rgerdeena]

And even if we accept that extremely unlikely premise, that still doesn't make it okay to destroy the homes of millions of people.

Tony or reed can replace those homes fairly easily, and hulk is smart enough to know that

 

[Antvasima]

I don't understand how your favorite heroes are Superman-like characters when you think like General Ross

I like Ross even less than I like the Hulk, and I am not an ultranationalistic war-crazed zealot. I just don't like extremely morally out there characters marketed as some kind of role models.

Tony or reed can replace those homes fairly easily, and hulk is smart enough to know that

That doesn't sound like a good excuse.

 

[Antvasima]

I feel like it boils down to the “mutants” problem. “Does X (here Hulk) deserves a pass on destroying stuff? Killing people? Do we have any solutions?”

Just like with mutants - writing is ass. Just like with mutants who can’t control their powers they have an easy solution (power dampening collars) to save them and the people around. Hulk too has such solutions (one I can think is Gamma free room Strange has). So any power they have or any power the world requires can be accessed on demand at that specific needed moment without endangering humanity.

But obviously, that’s not how stories work.

Well, the Hulk is at least normally not portrayed as anywhere near as evil as quite a lot of the X-Men, and even the "nicer" X-Men characters tend to be perfectly fine with having Mystique, Apocalypse, and similar downright satanic characters as team members, and to let them roam free to continue to commit atrocities just because they are mutants, and tribalism apparently gives almost everybody a free pass for them.

 

[Eseseso]

Minor question.

So the current 9-A's scale right now to 0.008 tons (or 33.472 megajoules) IIRC, which is all good, but the issue is the downscaling.

Right now there is no clear option for what the current 9-B+ people downscale to besides "vastly below 33 MJ", but this is a problem since by downscaling rules, they should be downscaling to baseline 9-A, which is 20.92 MJ, or 1.6x weaker than the 9-A scaling value. Honestly, this seems like a wide enough gap for me, but I think either one of 2 options works:

1. People who downscale from the calc scale to baseline 9-A, or 0.005 tons of tnt (20.92 MJ).

2. People who downscale from the calc scale to baseline 9-B+, or 10.4675 MJ

 

[Entity]

and I am not an ultranationalistic war-crazed zealot.

not in those aspects, you both start to analyse Hulk in a biased way, Ross because Hulk looks like a monster and you because his powers come from rage and from TOBA, and you both cherry pick his actions to validate the idea you already made of him.

I just don't like extremely morally out there charaters marketed as some kind of role models.

Every character can be a role model in its own way, it can be a model in all of its aspect or only in some of those, it can be a mirror to show us our flaws, but what I see is that you tend to go by absolutes, it's either absolutely morally good or not, one can be a role model and one cannot, I don't think it's a good way to look at fiction or at the world

 

[Antvasima]

I have read lots of Hulk stories over the years. I have just grown very disillusioned with the core concepts of him over time.

Also, I actually do have rather nuanced perspectives, but I do believe that certain very extreme lines should definitely not be crossed, and that we need higher positive ideals to strive towards.

 

[Eseseso]

Well, the Hulk is at least normally not portrayed as anywhere near as evil as quite a lot of the X-Men, and even the "nicer" X-Men characters tend to be perfectly fine with having Mystique, Apocalypse, and similar downright satanic characters as team members, and to let them roam free to continue to commit atrocities just because they are mutants, and tribalism apparently gives almost everybody a free pass for them.

No comment on Mystique because I don't know her backstory well enough, but yeah them allowing Apocalypse to stay scot-free on Krakoa is wild

 

[MrKerf]

No comment on Mystique because I don't know her backstory well enough, but yeah them allowing Apocalypse to stay scot-free on Krakoa is wild

While to Chuck it was probably weird, Moira fought side by side with Apocalypse for 100 years of her prior life, as his queen, so it was probably her decision (and another way to keep all eggs in one basket). Xavier and Magneto were convinced easily via her memories, and there was no council at the time.

 

[Eseseso]

While to Chuck it was probably weird, Moira fought side by side with Apocalypse for 100 years of her prior life, as his queen, so it was probably her decision (and another way to keep all eggs in one basket). Xavier and Magneto were convinced easily via her memories, and there was no council at the time.

Apocalypse tried repeatedly to kill millions to billions of people with no remorse. Tragic past be damned, there's no way he should've been allowed on Krakoa as a free man.

 

[MrKerf]

Apocalypse tried repeatedly to kill millions to billions of people with no remorse. Tragic past be damned, there's no way he should've been allowed on Krakoa as a free man.

Yeah yeah, but it’s not the majority’s call. Only Xavier was calling the shots at the time, and he trusted Moira and her experience with Apocalypse.

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah yeah, but it’s not the majority’s call. Only Xavier was calling the shots at the time, and he trusted Moira and her experience with Apocalypse.

Then Xavier was a fool and a hypocrite.

If Apocalypse was a superpowered non-mutant he wouldn't have done it, but the mutants are insistent that they're superior to humans.

Shit like this is why Doctor Doom, no saint himself, called them out as basically a nation built on racist ideals. Yes, the mutants have suffered horribly at the hands of humans, but they decided to take the worst mutants and put many of them in charge of the only mutant nation. Tarn, fricking TARN, was never arrested for his torture of countless people and was allowed to walk free and participate in gladiator matches.

Except my homie Magneto, the world didn't deserve him and his redemption arc was solid. Plus he made that bastard Tarn beg for his life like a little dog before ending his worthless existence.

To quote Ultimate Spider-Man:

"God! You know why people hate you? It's not because you're mutants! It's because you're all a bunch of @#$@#$ $@$%@ ##@$!! That's why!! You $^$%^$%^$$^$%^$%#^%#$$%^!!!"

 

[Eseseso]

Minor question.

So the current 9-A's scale right now to 0.008 tons (or 33.472 megajoules) IIRC, which is all good, but the issue is the downscaling.

Right now there is no clear option for what the current 9-B+ people downscale to besides "vastly below 33 MJ", but this is a problem since by downscaling rules, they should be downscaling to baseline 9-A, which is 20.92 MJ, or 1.6x weaker than the 9-A scaling value. Honestly, this seems like a wide enough gap for me, but I think either one of 2 options works:

1. People who downscale from the calc scale to baseline 9-A, or 0.005 tons of tnt (20.92 MJ).

2. People who downscale from the calc scale to baseline 9-B+, or 10.4675 MJ

Bump on this btw.

.

Thoughts on this?

 

[Antvasima]

Then Xavier was a fool and a hypocrite.

If Apocalypse was a superpowered non-mutant he wouldn't have done it, but the mutants are insistent that they're superior to humans.

Shit like this is why Doctor Doom, no saint himself, called them out as basically a nation built on racist ideals. Yes, the mutants have suffered horribly at the hands of humans, but they decided to take the worst mutants and put many of them in charge of the only mutant nation. Tarn, fricking TARN, was never arrested for his torture of countless people and was allowed to walk free and participate in gladiator matches.

Except my homie Magneto, the world didn't deserve him and his redemption arc was solid. Plus he made that bastard Tarn beg for his life like a little *****.

To quote Ultimate Spider-Man:

"God! You know why people hate you? It's not because you're mutants! It's because you're all a bunch of @#$@#$ $@$%@ ##@$!! That's why!! You $^$%^$%^$$^$%^$%#^%#$$%^!!!"

Mostly agreed.

 

[Excellence616]

1. People who downscale from the calc scale to baseline 9-A, or 0.005 tons of tnt (20.92 MJ).

This is better

 

[MrKerf]

Then Xavier was a fool and a hypocrite.

Clearly. It's Krakoa era Xavier we are talking about. But also you should recognise that it's a Xavier that Moira specifically "broke", one who went against everything he believed in, and who thinks that there really is no other choice.

never thought I'd be Xavier's advocate

 

[Eseseso]

Mostly agreed.

What do you think about this scaling issue, btw?

Minor question.

So the current 9-A's scale right now to 0.008 tons (or 33.472 megajoules) IIRC, which is all good, but the issue is the downscaling.

Right now there is no clear option for what the current 9-B+ people downscale to besides "vastly below 33 MJ", but this is a problem since by downscaling rules, they should be downscaling to baseline 9-A, which is 20.92 MJ, or 1.6x weaker than the 9-A scaling value. Honestly, this seems like a wide enough gap for me, but I think either one of 2 options works:

1. People who downscale from the calc scale to baseline 9-A, or 0.005 tons of tnt (20.92 MJ).

2. People who downscale from the calc scale to baseline 9-B+, or 10.4675 MJ

 

[Antvasima]

It is probably better to ask somebody else about these types of problems. I am not very good at solving them.

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

Then Xavier was a fool and a hypocrite.

If Apocalypse was a superpowered non-mutant he wouldn't have done it, but the mutants are insistent that they're superior to humans.

Shit like this is why Doctor Doom, no saint himself, called them out as basically a nation built on racist ideals. Yes, the mutants have suffered horribly at the hands of humans, but they decided to take the worst mutants and put many of them in charge of the only mutant nation. Tarn, fricking TARN, was never arrested for his torture of countless people and was allowed to walk free and participate in gladiator matches.

Except my homie Magneto, the world didn't deserve him and his redemption arc was solid. Plus he made that bastard Tarn beg for his life like a little dog before ending his worthless existence.

To quote Ultimate Spider-Man:

"God! You know why people hate you? It's not because you're mutants! It's because you're all a bunch of @#$@#$ $@$%@ ##@$!! That's why!! You $^$%^$%^$$^$%^$%#^%#$$%^!!!"

This reminds me of a comic panel I saw where a doctor says he doesn't discriminate against mutants, he discriminates against X-Men specifically.

 

[Eseseso]

Issue with 9-B+ Marvel people

Ok, so after 8-C got yoinked away (died too young), the street level people scale to Daredevil's 9-A calc of 0.008 tons and the 9-B+ people backscale from him. Now, the 9-A is well and good, but we never gave the 9-B+ people an actual value other than "vastly below 0.008 tons", which is an issue...

vsbattles.com

 

[That_moron2]

Then Xavier was a fool and a hypocrite.

Grass is green

 

[The_Impress]

Marvel: Black Bolt AFB port

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:The_Imp-ress/Page_Reworks Port of Confluctor's page from https://all-fiction-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Bolt_(Marvel_Comics) All work done by him and yadda-yadda.

vsbattles.com

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

is this an official illustration of mark 3 Ironman or is it just an officially edited or other version of mark 3?

 

[Rgerdeena]

is this an official illustration of mark 3 Ironman or is it just an officially edited or other version of mark 3?

The scan itself says it’s an ice sculpture

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The scan itself says it’s an ice sculpture

yee but it's official source... So like is it just game specific edited illustration or another version perhaps? Of mark 3?

Ill just ask AI

Seems to be game specific kinda edited official illustration

 

[Excellence616]

Fortnite: Thor (2020) #1 is part of the canonicity (Accepted)

Before I start, I should tell you that this thread does not discuss the following: So let's start now: It is stated that the Nexus War comics begin after the events of Thor (2020) #1, meaning that Thor (2020) #1 is canon to Fortnite's continuity. The other issues, however, are not part of it...

vsbattles.com

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Fortnite: Thor (2020) #1 is part of the canonicity (Accepted)

Before I start, I should tell you that this thread does not discuss the following: So let's start now: It is stated that the Nexus War comics begin after the events of Thor (2020) #1, meaning that Thor (2020) #1 is canon to Fortnite's continuity. The other issues, however, are not part of it...

vsbattles.com

After reading this thread I have a question.
Can a specific comic be considered cannon duo to events that happened there being referenced in another media? Multiple events from the comics are referenced in Marvel Rivals could the events that are referenced be used for scaling?

 

[Tomfer]

Fortnite: Thor (2020) #1 is part of the canonicity (Accepted)

Before I start, I should tell you that this thread does not discuss the following: So let's start now: It is stated that the Nexus War comics begin after the events of Thor (2020) #1, meaning that Thor (2020) #1 is canon to Fortnite's continuity. The other issues, however, are not part of it...

vsbattles.com

Fortnite bros will stop at nothing unitl they have some crumb of marvel scaling.

 

[MrKerf]

After reading this thread I have a question.
Can a specific comic be considered cannon duo to events that happened there being referenced in another media? Multiple events from the comics are referenced in Marvel Rivals could the events that are referenced be used for scaling?

No. Mainly because it’s Marvel and any event referenced (like… Civil War) might have transpired differently compared to comics (like… Civil War ended as one of What Ifs for example).

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like the Storm comicbook ended in the middle of multiversal armageddon, strange incompatibility with the continuity as a whole, and extreme metafictional excesses, and will seemingly not be concluded as far as we currently know. Or maybe the conclusion is saved for a large event next year, or the sheer continuity-wrecking sledgehammer nature of this series requires it to be discarded as a dream induced by Nightmare or something similar? I do not know.

However, it also seems like a comicbook news site has opened up for questions to the writer. Is there anything that we should politely ask him regarding what is going on?

X-Men Monday Call for Questions: Murewa Ayodele for ‘Storm: Earth’s Mightiest Mutant’

Don't miss your chance to ask writer Murewa Ayodele about his Eisner-nominated 'Storm', 'Rogue Storm', and 'Storm: Earth's Mightiest Mutant' runs!

aiptcomics.com

 

[AcidSilver]

No comment on Mystique because I don't know her backstory well enough, but yeah them allowing Apocalypse to stay scot-free on Krakoa is wild

Unironically Apocalypse was the least bad decision for Krakoa. Apocalypse is an absolutist when it comes to his might makes right worldview and by creating a powerhouse of a nation like Krakoa the X-Men embody the mighty in Apocalypse’s eyes. Having someone as dangerous as Apocalypse essentially on a leash because good luck actually killing him was a smart move. He didn’t scheme or betray them at all during the entire Krakoa era and only rebelled at the end when Krakoa fell.

Apocalypse was gonna be running around no matter what, it was just a question of if you’d rather have him where you could see him or not.

 

[Antvasima]

Just because somebody as evil as Hitler, Mao, Stalin, and Mussolini combined was potentially useful doesn't mean that he should be given a big say in running things, or that all efforts should not be made to bring him to justice. He also helped to indoctrinate the mutants into becoming even more bloodthirsty supremacist social-Darwinists than earlier with his bloodsports to the death games to crowds of cheering assholes.

 

[MrKerf]

It seems like the Storm comicbook ended in the middle of multiversal armageddon, strange incompatibility with the continuity as a whole, and extreme metafictional excesses, and will seemingly not be concluded as far as we currently know. Or maybe the conclusion is saved for a large event next year, or the sheer continuity-wrecking sledgehammer nature of this series requires it to be discarded as a dream induced by Nightmare or something similar? I do not know.

However, it also seems like a comicbook news site has opened up for questions to the writer. Is there anything that we should politely ask him regarding what is going on?

X-Men Monday Call for Questions: Murewa Ayodele for ‘Storm: Earth’s Mightiest Mutant’

Don't miss your chance to ask writer Murewa Ayodele about his Eisner-nominated 'Storm', 'Rogue Storm', and 'Storm: Earth's Mightiest Mutant' runs!

aiptcomics.com

The most simple of questions would be how exactly do the events in the comic work.

Oblivion was guarding the universe from Black Winters, yet those can also affect Land of Queen of Nevers and WHR, Eternity travelling to the House of Ideas when Defenders Beyond happened specifically because he couldn't.

It would be "You told numerous times that you limited the scope of the Storm story to be in a single universe. Yet you also included countless of higher realms, like White Hot Room, House of Ideas, and the Land of the Never Queen. How does it work? Did Hadad attacked those higher realms after all or was those still... in a single Universal scope as well?"

I asked Twig to ask him that on X, but I am not sure if it was a fruitful endeavour.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Can we axe the Storm run from the main cosmology?

like we do for DeMatteis and main but DeMatteis case is less extreme as Storm at this point

 

[Eseseso]

The most simple of questions would be how exactly do the events in the comic work.

Oblivion was guarding the universe from Black Winters, yet those can also affect Land of Queen of Nevers and WHR, Eternity travelling to the House of Ideas when Defenders Beyond happened specifically because he couldn't.

It would be "You told numerous times that you limited the scope of the Storm story to be in a single universe. Yet you also included countless of higher realms, like White Hot Room, House of Ideas, and the Land of the Never Queen. How does it work? Did Hadad attacked those higher realms after all or was those still... in a single Universal scope as well?"

I asked Twig to ask him that on X, but I am not sure if it was a fruitful endeavour.

Don't forget about TOAA, and whether or not they represent the universal or multiversal versions?

And how Black Winter was so weak when in its first appearance just one was a multiversal threat?